Dishonest Seller

[Bosco685]

Oh I understand it all right.

 

It's as clear as mud

you have to quote what you are referencing, I can't keep up but I really want to understand and appreciate everyone's perspective

Everyone is thinking the same way on wanting to understand.

 

It just seems like picking and choosing when to assign a purple label.

[G.A.tor]

I disagree - Restored books have always been harder to sell.

 

Blue label restored books are the same useless creation as the green label qualified holder. Bookends that should be used to protect the real blue label books.

 

I recall buying books in the late 80's and 90's and I agree that restored has always been less desirable than unrestored, and therefore, when compared to unrestored, harder to sell (still so today)... it is the valuation aspect that has changed dramatically since cgc:

I think that restored pricing was different then (it used to be some function of "pre" resto grade + 'now" apparent grade, divided in half, or something along those lines)

 

these days, a "general" rule of thumb for the avg book (and I am only speaking of GA, not SA or later) is that most ext are 15-25% of apparent unrestored grade price...mods are 20-30%, and slights are 25-40%...generally... milage will vary

[Bosco685]

However, I do have a problem with 'preserving the value'. CGC should not be here to 'preserve the value', but rather clearly and unambiguously state facts. The market then determines value.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Restoration is restoration and a blue label with glue and color touch isn't going to change reality.

 

I own blue label GA books with a dot of CT or a dab of glue, and it doesn't bother me at all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[G.A.tor]

And for the record.

 

Stand across the table with a CGC book in your hand with label notes stating minor color touch and glue and try to convince a customer that it's a blue label "Universal". And we wonder why Dealers have lousy reputations?

 

How about this? At my sole discretion can I determine a book on my wall to be Universal with a tiny amount of color touch or glue. Of course not, I would be selling a restored book as Unrestored which it's not even if I noted it on the label.

 

 

'Amount' should never come into the equation. A book either is...or it isn't restored.

 

And by 'restored', we shouldn't be taking into account the result of the procedures, rather what was done.

 

As Bob has quite rightly said, this was a 'work-around' which avoided the problem of labelling a good number of books from the best collection ever unearthed as 'restored'. Imagine how that would have got a number of 'founder dealers' squealing.

by technical definition, I completely agree...either something has been added to the book, or it hasn't...

however, it is not brain surgery...it is pretty easy to explain, if someone is interested in knowing, why a 6.5 can get into a blue holder, versus a purple holder...doesn't change the fact that the glue is there, and absolutely value comes into place... I find it hard to believe that any reasonable individual would think that by adding a drop of glue, a book that without it is "worth" $40k, but a book with it is worth $10K?...that is just naive and silly (IMO), so the blue label does indeed help to preseve the value (whether from a mile high collection or any other book)

 

I agree with this whole-heartedly, Rick. The values of restored books, especially keys and hard-to-find items, is inordinately low.

 

However, I do have a problem with 'preserving the value'. CGC should not be here to 'preserve the value', but rather clearly and unambiguously state facts. The market then determines value.

(thumbs u

[Flaming_Telepath]

I agree with Bluechip...a restored book wasn't frowned upon in the past the way it is now.

 

And a great part of the reason is that the internet, eBay and CGC have informed the collector as to what's truly scarce and what's not. This particularly applies to SA and those books that were 'impossible to find'.

 

There's now 423 of them on the census alone.

 

This revelation has led to people holding out for unrestored copies, because for SA they are certainly out there.

[VintageComics]

I agree with Bluechip...a restored book wasn't frowned upon in the past the way it is now.

 

And a great part of the reason is that the internet, eBay and CGC have informed the collector as to what's truly scarce and what's not. This particularly applies to SA and those books that were 'impossible to find'.

 

There's now 423 of them on the census alone.

 

This revelation has led to people holding out for unrestored copies, because for SA they are certainly out there.

 

Fair enough. That's likely only part of the equation, though. The other part is the color of the label for restored books, which almost everyone will agree has come to be associated with "bad".

 

 

[G.A.tor]

Restoration is restoration and a blue label with glue and color touch isn't going to change reality.

 

I own blue label GA books with a dot of CT or a dab of glue, and it doesn't bother me at all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

by strict definition, I agree with Bob that the book has "restoration" (as we define it in the comic book collecting community, either something was added, or it wasn't...pretty straight forward)....

 

but, many (not sure if minority, or majority, etc and I would guess far more tolerant in the GA sector of collectors) think the same way you and I do Jive...it doesn't bother us ...and I do believe that the blue label with notes, reinforces this belief... the same book in a purple label (with the same minor glue, etc), does now, have a more negative market view... should it be that way, not for me to decide, upto the market as a whole

 

however, there are many books (like the PLOD Aman 26) that I could give a rats arse what kind of label it is in...just to "have" a copy is the only thing that is important...restored, unrestored, blue label, purple label...doesn't matter...the book will sell at the price the market establishes, independant of all that... in other words, if that 3.0 aman 26 was in a clean blue label, versus an extensive plod label, my guess is that the winning bid would still be the same...

[blazingbob]

How do you know it's a dot?

 

All the restoration was pointed out to you when you bought them raw?

 

What if you cracked them out and the tiny dot of glue turned into multiple tiny dots of glue? Is one ok? two? three? What if there was more work than noted? Still feel the same way about the book?

 

Sole discretion and Very minor seems pretty wide open to me.

 

 

[G.A.tor]

How do you know it's a dot?

 

All the restoration was pointed out to you when you bought them raw?

 

What if you cracked them out and the tiny dot of glue turned into multiple tiny dots of glue? Is one ok? two? three? What if there was more work than noted? Still feel the same way about the book?

 

Sole discretion and Very minor seems pretty wide open to me.

 

very true...no doubt I have seen books in blue labels that I were fairly certain would be in purple labels and a few vice versa... but until a different system or service is implemented, this is what we have

[Bosco685]

So it really comes down to the buyer's sensitivity to restored books in blue labels (no surprise there). It just seems to go against CGC's process of restoration checking. Even their description of a Restored Label would make this a standard procedure to assign any book with restoration a purple label.

 

This label is applied to any comic book that has evidence of repair so that it will appear as it did when it was in its original condition. Restoration can come in a variety of degrees, from slight professional restoration (SP) to extensive amateur restoration (EA).

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

How do you know it's a dot?

 

All the restoration was pointed out to you when you bought them raw?

 

What if you cracked them out and the tiny dot of glue turned into multiple tiny dots of glue? Is one ok? two? three? What if there was more work than noted? Still feel the same way about the book?

 

Sole discretion and Very minor seems pretty wide open to me.

 

 

Generally speaking, you can spot a "dot" of CT, even through the CGC holder. I know I can.

 

And most were purchased "as-is", post certification. I can generally spot resto on my own with raw books. That's the side benefit of being burned enough in this hobby for 20+ years.

 

But I understand where you are coming from Bob...if you haven't taken your lumps and/or are a fairly new collector, the level playing field that CGC was supposed to provide seems like a far-fetched thing when some books get creamed for a dot of glue or CT, and others don't.

 

[TheShadowKnows]

Not owning any golden age books myself Bob, it sounds like you are saying that even though the label is blue the book is really restored, correct?

 

Reading the earlier post from Rick, to try and sell the blue labeled book (with glue and CT) would require a detailed explanation which, like you said, most collectors will probably not "get".

I have never had a problem buying and selling a blue label with notes...it is quite easy, imo...

this is the book, it is a 6.5...there is a teeny bit of glue and color touch right here, on this tear...scrape it off, it is so minor it is still a 6.5... here is the price... simple

Didnt this all come about when a dealer in Washington started messing with the mile high books?A drop of glue a tiny touch of ct and a 9.4 is a 9.6.From what ive been told there were hundreds of these cases.So instead of having(many) MH books reside in a purple lable that made this exception.

[skypinkblu]

I disagree - Restored books have always been harder to sell.

 

Blue label restored books are the same useless creation as the green label qualified holder. Bookends that should be used to protect the real blue label books.

 

 

I don't MIND restored books (as long as I know about them) ...I have a lot of very nice books that without the current valuation of the purple labels I would not have been able to to afford...but I do value books with notes, the same way I do a purple label. It's too arbitrary to me otherwise.

[mschmidt]

It's simple commerce. Price meets point.

 

And yet, when other forumites take this approach, they are ridiculed for being a tool. There was a board member that ended up leaving here as a regular participant because he priced a Danger Girl 1 Platinum CGC 9.8 very high due to he wasn't in a rush to part with it. He was called out on it. Then, someone bought it, so now he was shilling his Ebay account (on a Buy Now no less - because that's what you shill. ).

 

Go figure!

 

He was ridiculed because the very first line in his ebay description was "This book is not for sale".

 

And then he had his neighbor hit the BIN to prove to us that his insane price was, in fact, reasonable.

[Bosco685]

He was ridiculed because the very first line in his ebay description was "This book is not for sale".

 

And then he had his neighbor hit the BIN to prove to us that his insane price was, in fact, reasonable.

I'm not sure if he had that in the listing as "not for sale," or "I'm not in a rush to sell this." It's been so long.

 

And I know for sure it was never proven his neighbor bought it. It was definitely someone local, though.

 

I respect your opinions. I'd just avoid adding 'facts' to the history.

 

 

[G.A.tor]

so, getting this thread back on track, that filter81 is a real piece, isn't he

[Bosco685]

Found the transaction, but unfortunately Ebay retired the listing. It looks like Bcruze and Cardguy had two transactions total.

 

http://myworld.ebay.com/cardguy444

 

Hopefully, that blowup didn't cost anyone any future sales.

[Bosco685]

so, getting this thread back on track, that filter81 is a real piece, isn't he

Horrible!

[mrmitchgro]

so, getting this thread back on track, that filter81 is a real piece, isn't he

Horrible!

 

He has way more awesome comics than I do, which automatically makes him totally lame