What’s your opinion on long term pricing trends?

[Cimm]

Tarzan's first appearance was in All-Story October 1912. There are about 20 known copies to exist, ballpark VF price is $40,000+. Other early Tarzan pulps are also very expensive. (The novel came later,FYI.)

 

I've read that much, by why does Wikipedia refer to Burroughs first work as a novel? And they actually refer to All-Story as a pulp magazine. Novel's, pulps and magazines are all different formats, aren't they?

 

That particular issue was dedicated to publishing the entire "novel," that is to say, the entire,complete story. It was also the first pulp story Burroughs published under his own name. Very iconic cover, I think the most recent swipe was the cover of Planetary #17.

 

Pulps were considered magazines, but they are not the same size as today's magazines.

 

There are quite a few boardies with more pulp knowledge and collecting experience than me. One of those guys may be able to give you better information. Bangzoom, ComicsnERB, bronzilla, scrooge, fuelman. There's more, I'm sure.

 

Fair enough. And I'm not at all up to speed on pulps either. I also agree with blob's post, however this kind of seems like the disagreement over Obadiah Oldbuck, and whether it should even be considered a comic, much less the first.

 

Out of curiousity (and to make my point more succinct) I sifted through the first 20 or so results from a Google search and of the 7 relevant matches: 3 called it a magazine, 1 novel, 1 pulp magazine, 2 no specific mention.

 

It may well be that there just aren't enough copies that exist to allow a proper determination. Or it's been out of sight out of mind for such a long time (nearly 100 years since it was published) that no one has been able to definitively pin down whether it's one or the other.

 

If the category of pulp is as loosely defined as Overstreet was in allowing odd-format Platinum books into the category of "comics", then I guess it's really a case of whether modern-day opinion accepts or rejects that dated body of research.

 

It is a pulp. It is one, if not the, Holy Grail of pulps.

 

Here's a link to erbzine.com, a Burrough fan web site, talking about a copy of All-Story Oct 1912 being sold in a Heritage auction. It should address your doubts.

 

http://www.erbzine.com/gw/GridleyWave298.pdf

 

If it doesn't, go over to the Golden Age forum and find the "I'll pound you to a Pulp" thread. Ask the board members there if All-Story Oct 1912 is a pulp or not.

 

 

 

All-Story 1912-10, first appearance of Tarzan, every inch a pulp...

 

[TheShadowKnows]

There's a great book about collecting pulps called The Blood N Thunder Guide to Collecting Pulps.

 

In it, the author Ed Hulse points to the demise of pulp as being a combination of things: a new mood in the country post WW2 that was eager for new entertainment (not characters who were peceived as stale), and the onslaught of television.

 

The first reason could be partly generational. The second, reason well, new technologies seem to provide new ways of entertainment that threaten the old. (Video games vs. comics, anyone?)

 

(I'm probably doing a diservice to Mr. Hulse in this summarization.)

 

One intersting qoute from the book is this --

 

If you're looking to "invest" in pulp magazines hoping to make a killing a few years from now, we've got three words for you: find another field. Pulps remain affordable because the hobby thus far hasn't attracted the type of speculator whose profiteering ruined comic-book collecting years ago by moving many desirable items beyond the financial reach of those who most appreciated them. Fortunately, there doesn't seem to be enough money in pulp magazines to make them appealing to these soulless homunculi.

 

Doesn't mince words, does he?

 

Now, I wonder, will Speculation be the machine that keeps our hobby alive?

 

We will learn a lot about pulps when the Frank Robinson collection is sold.

[thehumantorch]

Tarzan's first appearance was in All-Story October 1912. There are about 20 known copies to exist, ballpark VF price is $40,000+. Other early Tarzan pulps are also very expensive. (The novel came later,FYI.)

 

I've read that much, by why does Wikipedia refer to Burroughs first work as a novel? And they actually refer to All-Story as a pulp magazine. Novel's, pulps and magazines are all different formats, aren't they?

 

That particular issue was dedicated to publishing the entire "novel," that is to say, the entire,complete story. It was also the first pulp story Burroughs published under his own name. Very iconic cover, I think the most recent swipe was the cover of Planetary #17.

 

Pulps were considered magazines, but they are not the same size as today's magazines.

 

There are quite a few boardies with more pulp knowledge and collecting experience than me. One of those guys may be able to give you better information. Bangzoom, ComicsnERB, bronzilla, scrooge, fuelman. There's more, I'm sure.

 

Fair enough. And I'm not at all up to speed on pulps either. I also agree with blob's post, however this kind of seems like the disagreement over Obadiah Oldbuck, and whether it should even be considered a comic, much less the first.

 

Out of curiousity (and to make my point more succinct) I sifted through the first 20 or so results from a Google search and of the 7 relevant matches: 3 called it a magazine, 1 novel, 1 pulp magazine, 2 no specific mention.

 

It may well be that there just aren't enough copies that exist to allow a proper determination. Or it's been out of sight out of mind for such a long time (nearly 100 years since it was published) that no one has been able to definitively pin down whether it's one or the other.

 

If the category of pulp is as loosely defined as Overstreet was in allowing odd-format Platinum books into the category of "comics", then I guess it's really a case of whether modern-day opinion accepts or rejects that dated body of research.

 

It is a pulp. It is one, if not the, Holy Grail of pulps.

 

Here's a link to erbzine.com, a Burrough fan web site, talking about a copy of All-Story Oct 1912 being sold in a Heritage auction. It should address your doubts.

 

http://www.erbzine.com/gw/GridleyWave298.pdf

 

If it doesn't, go over to the Golden Age forum and find the "I'll pound you to a Pulp" thread. Ask the board members there if All-Story Oct 1912 is a pulp or not.

 

 

 

All-Story 1912-10, first appearance of Tarzan, every inch a pulp...

 

 

When are you putting this up in your sales thread??

[thehumantorch]

There's a great book about collecting pulps called The Blood N Thunder Guide to Collecting Pulps.

 

In it, the author Ed Hulse points to the demise of pulp as being a combination of things: a new mood in the country post WW2 that was eager for new entertainment (not characters who were peceived as stale), and the onslaught of television.

 

The first reason could be partly generational. The second, reason well, new technologies seem to provide new ways of entertainment that threaten the old. (Video games vs. comics, anyone?)

 

(I'm probably doing a diservice to Mr. Hulse in this summarization.)

 

One intersting qoute from the book is this --

 

If you're looking to "invest" in pulp magazines hoping to make a killing a few years from now, we've got three words for you: find another field. Pulps remain affordable because the hobby thus far hasn't attracted the type of speculator whose profiteering ruined comic-book collecting years ago by moving many desirable items beyond the financial reach of those who most appreciated them. Fortunately, there doesn't seem to be enough money in pulp magazines to make them appealing to these soulless homunculi.

 

Doesn't mince words, does he?

 

Now, I wonder, will Speculation be the machine that keeps our hobby alive?

 

We will learn a lot about pulps when the Frank Robinson collection is sold.

 

I met Frank at a Science Fiction convention in the early 80s. A nicer man you will not find.

[Cimm]

Tarzan's first appearance was in All-Story October 1912. There are about 20 known copies to exist, ballpark VF price is $40,000+. Other early Tarzan pulps are also very expensive. (The novel came later,FYI.)

 

I've read that much, by why does Wikipedia refer to Burroughs first work as a novel? And they actually refer to All-Story as a pulp magazine. Novel's, pulps and magazines are all different formats, aren't they?

 

That particular issue was dedicated to publishing the entire "novel," that is to say, the entire,complete story. It was also the first pulp story Burroughs published under his own name. Very iconic cover, I think the most recent swipe was the cover of Planetary #17.

 

Pulps were considered magazines, but they are not the same size as today's magazines.

 

There are quite a few boardies with more pulp knowledge and collecting experience than me. One of those guys may be able to give you better information. Bangzoom, ComicsnERB, bronzilla, scrooge, fuelman. There's more, I'm sure.

 

Fair enough. And I'm not at all up to speed on pulps either. I also agree with blob's post, however this kind of seems like the disagreement over Obadiah Oldbuck, and whether it should even be considered a comic, much less the first.

 

Out of curiousity (and to make my point more succinct) I sifted through the first 20 or so results from a Google search and of the 7 relevant matches: 3 called it a magazine, 1 novel, 1 pulp magazine, 2 no specific mention.

 

It may well be that there just aren't enough copies that exist to allow a proper determination. Or it's been out of sight out of mind for such a long time (nearly 100 years since it was published) that no one has been able to definitively pin down whether it's one or the other.

 

If the category of pulp is as loosely defined as Overstreet was in allowing odd-format Platinum books into the category of "comics", then I guess it's really a case of whether modern-day opinion accepts or rejects that dated body of research.

 

It is a pulp. It is one, if not the, Holy Grail of pulps.

 

Here's a link to erbzine.com, a Burrough fan web site, talking about a copy of All-Story Oct 1912 being sold in a Heritage auction. It should address your doubts.

 

http://www.erbzine.com/gw/GridleyWave298.pdf

 

If it doesn't, go over to the Golden Age forum and find the "I'll pound you to a Pulp" thread. Ask the board members there if All-Story Oct 1912 is a pulp or not.

 

 

 

All-Story 1912-10, first appearance of Tarzan, every inch a pulp...

 

 

When are you putting this up in your sales thread??

 

It's a replica... you can get one for yourself on eBay... very cool!

[Vtcomics]

I'll give you Buck and Zorro (even though I can't imagine they'd receive much, if any critical acclaim)

I think Greystoke: The Legend of Tarzan was very nicely done.

 

That was the first movie I ever saw in a movie theatre. My aunt took me and my brother to the Sheraton Hotel that had a Theatre located underground in downtown Toronto.

 

It was also the first time I realized that you could literally live under ground in a city like Toronto. There is an amazing maze of shops, tunnels and Subway lines in the city.

 

Does any other city have something like this?

 

Yep. Montreal. 90 minutes from my door!

[thehumantorch]

I'll give you Buck and Zorro (even though I can't imagine they'd receive much, if any critical acclaim)

I think Greystoke: The Legend of Tarzan was very nicely done.

 

That was the first movie I ever saw in a movie theatre. My aunt took me and my brother to the Sheraton Hotel that had a Theatre located underground in downtown Toronto.

 

It was also the first time I realized that you could literally live under ground in a city like Toronto. There is an amazing maze of shops, tunnels and Subway lines in the city.

 

Does any other city have something like this?

 

Yep. Montreal. 90 minutes from my door!

 

NYC is a maze of subways, train tracks and tunnels. We took a train out of Grand Central and didn't come above ground until Harlem.

[kimik]

Going back to the original question, there will be certain books that are accepted as investment grade like Action #1, Tec #27 or AF #15 that will likely always have some value just like the rarest/mega key coins, cards, and stamps. Even though the majority of comic back issues will drop in value over time there will be some that continue to appreciate that represent the first appearance of characters with mass media appeal outside of comics. Those are the books that will hold value over time while the vast majority of back issues drop.

[gradejunky]

I suspect that comics will be the pulps of the future. I believe most pulp collectors have died off, few new ones are entering the hobby and prices are dropping.

 

I can't think of any pulp heroes that have achieved anything close to the fanbase of a Superman, Batman, or Spider-Man...Zorro and Buck Rogers don't even come close.

 

You forget Tarzan... worldwide, he is quite well known.

 

And that guy named Conan that I think most people have heard of

[Cimm]

I suspect that comics will be the pulps of the future. I believe most pulp collectors have died off, few new ones are entering the hobby and prices are dropping.

 

I can't think of any pulp heroes that have achieved anything close to the fanbase of a Superman, Batman, or Spider-Man...Zorro and Buck Rogers don't even come close.

 

You forget Tarzan... worldwide, he is quite well known.

 

And that guy named Conan that I think most people have heard of

 

Yeah, but, realistically, Conan became well-known during the sixties, 30 years after his inception, through pastiches, and later in paperbacks. Then when the Conan comics came along, he truly became famous... His start in the pulps was too short, and his exposure too limited, for "famous" status... Thankfully, he was read by the right people, motivated people, who took what Robert E. Howard laid down, and built the legend into myth. I think the original Weird Tales are only now, in the last twenty years or so, coming into their own, and they will continue to become more and more sought after, not less.

 

There is a reason that Tarzan's first appearance is the single most expensive pulp. He has been famous for almost 100 years now. Conan has only been truly famous for around 40 to 45 years, and his true origins in the pulps have only been recognized on a wide-spread basis since sometime in the 70s.

[passion4comics]

I went to five comic stores in Manhattan and Brooklyn yesterday representing myself as both a buyer collector or seller of my collection depending on my mood when I walked into the store.

 

Buying: Most books were overgraded a full grade going word for word in Overstreets guide to grading or not graded by the store at all. It's a comic, this is the price. It was pretty common to see 150% of Overstreet guide price as a list price even at the inflated grade.

 

Selling: I was told it's a buyers market, the economy is down and people are selling their best silver and gold. Stories about how much they've just bought and how cheap they bought it for. They'll take a look at what I have when I can bring it in.

 

Sounds like any other industry to me where people buy and sell collectibles

 

 

[ComicConnoisseur]

Antonio Banderas as Zorro did VERY well, awesome flick.

 

It got decent critical acclaim also, although I wasn't sure it was as good as it appears to be until I just looked it up. Great Rotten Tomatoes score at 82% and multiple awards nominations, although none of the big director/screenplay/actor Oscar awards.

The two Zorro movies by Antonio Banderas did almost half a billion worldwide at the box office, Zorro is like the Batman/Superman of Mexico and Central and South Americas.

[Batty Scrooge]

I went to five comic stores in Manhattan and Brooklyn yesterday representing myself as both a buyer collector or seller of my collection depending on my mood when I walked into the store.

 

Buying: Most books were overgraded a full grade going word for word in Overstreets guide to grading or not graded by the store at all. It's a comic, this is the price. It was pretty common to see 150% of Overstreet guide price as a list price even at the inflated grade.

 

Selling: I was told it's a buyers market, the economy is down and people are selling their best silver and gold. Stories about how much they've just bought and how cheap they bought it for. They'll take a look at what I have when I can bring it in.

 

Sounds like any other industry to me where people buy and sell collectibles

 

 

As a general rule I knock off a full grade point if graded by the seller when comparing prices to overstreet and if its a newish seller on E-Bay, I take off 2 full points. If its not a CGC rated grade, its really only a selling point. Give me a bunch of high-res scans and let me grade myself if the seller is really confident in his grade.

 

Just about everything in most comic shops is overpriced, graded or not, and all they accomplish with that is a lost customer, or a dummy to rip off a few times before he wises up. I routinely shop with my smartphone in hand and check E-Bay closed auction prices and ComicsPriceGuide.com before making any purchase.

 

Even in a great economy stores are telling stories of how cheaply they've acquired things to knock down the sellers hopes.

[passion4comics]

 

As a general rule I knock off a full grade point if graded by the seller when comparing prices to overstreet and if its a newish seller on E-Bay, I take off 2 full points. If its not a CGC rated grade, its really only a selling point. Give me a bunch of high-res scans and let me grade myself if the seller is really confident in his grade.

 

Just about everything in most comic shops is overpriced, graded or not, and all they accomplish with that is a lost customer, or a dummy to rip off a few times before he wises up. I routinely shop with my smartphone in hand and check E-Bay closed auction prices and ComicsPriceGuide.com before making any purchase.

 

Even in a great economy stores are telling stories of how cheaply they've acquired things to knock down the sellers hopes.

 

One guy had an xmen 1, FF 1, and a Tales of Suspense 39. All beat into the ground from what I could see. I asked about the XM1 and the guy was less than enthusiastic to even look up at me. Would I plunk down 10k on the spot for the right book and price; yes. I'll never go there again. Another place had xm1 in a 3 for 4k, but if I took it right there 2k. A really nice guy too, but I wasn't interested.

 

Somewhere out there is a person that has (example) an XM1 in a 9+ and would take 10k. It's just a matter of waiting it out and looking. I've picked up 15k etchings for under 2k because poop happens and these luxuries are the first things to be liquidated.