Is the variant craze a little close to the 90's implosion of the market?

[Mark 1]

 

Im just as lost. New comics have stopped being fun (for the most part) years ago.

 

Just keep rereading your old ones.

 

+1

 

Plus at $3.99 or $4.99 a comic...why spend that on a new one when you can go to the older titles and pick up some cool older books for under $5 a pop.

 

 

[passion4comics]

I like the new paper and ink they use compared to my 80's comics I used to read.

[BeachBum]

Today's releases.

 

 

Second printings out in a few weeks guaranteed.

 

People want those books. People were calling the stores I was at asking for those books. People were lined up outside one store wanting those books... But they didn't know they were already spoken for....

 

Unless the demand goes down Variants will still sell.

[500Club]

I wish someone would explain what the heck is going on in comics today to me; including a variant. I went into a large comic store on 34th Street in Manhattan and was 110% lost. I walked up to the Avengers rack (there used to be a single Avengers run) and there are 20 different Avengers. There are 20 different X-men. Iron Man should be at issue 400 or so and it's nowhere to be found. I get the one shot and the mini-series, but nothing else makes sense. If you remember what comics were like in 1983 and walked into a shop in 2010 then you can figure out how lost I am.

 

I asked a few simple questions and have more questions than when I walked in. "So, Wolverine in Uncanny Xmen is a different Wolverine in this series? Um, ok, what?".

 

This is why there is such a barrier to new reader entry to the hobby.

[joe_collector]

Plus at $3.99 or $4.99 a comic...why spend that on a new one when you can go to the older titles and pick up some cool older books for under $5 a pop.

 

Ssssshhhh! If the Modernites all figure this out, those $5-$10 vintage books will suddenly jump to $20-$30+.

[RockMyAmadeus]

To answer the original question, the new "variant craze" is both like and unlike the 90's.

 

In the 90's, there was a much larger consumer base for these books, so the variants that existed would frequently sell for $30-$50...or more...very soon after release. Also, variant printruns were in the 5-15K range, like Venom #1 Gold (11K), and Spiderman #1 Platinum (10K).

 

Now, the vast majority of variants have printruns of 1,000 or less. Since there's a much smaller customer base, even the most popular variants have a difficult time seeing much of a back issue spike (for example...Civil War sketch variants, once $50-$100, are easily had for $10-$30.)

 

As well, in the 90's, the vast majority of books had at most one or two variants, whether it be foil of some sort, or different colored logos, or other.

 

Now, it's not uncommon for a run of the mill book to have 10 or more variants (see Dynamite.)

 

Of course, the Franklin Mint mentality that I argue so vociferously against, and which should be discouraged by anyone involved in the industry at all levels, will eventually result in the cessation of the publication of comics books as we know them. Variants form a very large part of that mentality.

[paperheart]

To answer the original question, the new "variant craze" is both like and unlike the 90's.

 

In the 90's, there was a much larger consumer base for these books, so the variants that existed would frequently sell for $30-$50...or more...very soon after release. Also, variant printruns were in the 5-15K range, like Venom #1 Gold (11K), and Spiderman #1 Platinum (10K).

 

Now, the vast majority of variants have printruns of 1,000 or less. Since there's a much smaller customer base, even the most popular variants have a difficult time seeing much of a back issue spike (for example...Civil War sketch variants, once $50-$100, are easily had for $10-$30.)

 

As well, in the 90's, the vast majority of books had at most one or two variants, whether it be foil of some sort, or different colored logos, or other.

 

Now, it's not uncommon for a run of the mill book to have 10 or more variants (see Dynamite.)

 

Of course, the Franklin Mint mentality that I argue so vociferously against, and which should be discouraged by anyone involved in the industry at all levels, will eventually result in the cessation of the publication of comics books as we know them. Variants form a very large part of that mentality.

 

- brilliant post

[500Club]

Of course, the Franklin Mint mentality that I argue so vociferously against, and which should be discouraged by anyone involved in the industry at all levels, will eventually result in the cessation of the publication of comics books as we know them. Variants form a very large part of that mentality.

 

The phrase 'comics book(s)' is property Mile High Comics and may not be used without their express written consent.

 

The thing that makes me crabby about the Franklin Mint/manufactured collectible approach is the energy that goes into it could be better served by improving the base product.

[joe_collector]

The thing that makes me crabby about the Franklin Mint/manufactured collectible approach is the energy that goes into it could be better served by improving the base product.

 

But that would actually take hard work and talent, rather than just commissioning another cover or editing an existing one.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Of course, the Franklin Mint mentality that I argue so vociferously against, and which should be discouraged by anyone involved in the industry at all levels, will eventually result in the cessation of the publication of comics books as we know them. Variants form a very large part of that mentality.

 

The phrase 'comics book(s)' is property Mile High Comics and may not be used without their express written consent.

 

 

The thing that makes me crabby about the Franklin Mint/manufactured collectible approach is the energy that goes into it could be better served by improving the base product.

 

There's so much that could be done...that isn't being done...it's long past frustrating, and into heartbreaking, watching the demise of this artform.

 

Why has film and television succeeded, while comics (and to a lesser extent, live theater) languish? What makes one visual/verbal artform so appealing to so many, while other similar artforms appeal to an ever diminishing audience...?

 

(lots of answers, and theories, to these mostly rhetorical questions...)

[shortstack comics]

Today's releases.

 

 

Second printings out in a few weeks guaranteed.

 

[HeyMoe]

Why won't (or can't) the pubilcation of comic books see through this re-emergence of variants in the same way it did in the 90's?

 

Couldn't it be said that variants creates new collectors.

It's that 'something special' that hooks them in.

Eg. New Avengers movie on the horizon, maybe a few new readers stop by the LCS, and they pick up the variant.

Maybe a new collector is born!

 

 

To answer the original question, the new "variant craze" is both like and unlike the 90's.

 

In the 90's, there was a much larger consumer base for these books, so the variants that existed would frequently sell for $30-$50...or more...very soon after release. Also, variant printruns were in the 5-15K range, like Venom #1 Gold (11K), and Spiderman #1 Platinum (10K).

 

Now, the vast majority of variants have printruns of 1,000 or less. Since there's a much smaller customer base, even the most popular variants have a difficult time seeing much of a back issue spike (for example...Civil War sketch variants, once $50-$100, are easily had for $10-$30.)

 

As well, in the 90's, the vast majority of books had at most one or two variants, whether it be foil of some sort, or different colored logos, or other.

 

Now, it's not uncommon for a run of the mill book to have 10 or more variants (see Dynamite.)

 

Of course, the Franklin Mint mentality that I argue so vociferously against, and which should be discouraged by anyone involved in the industry at all levels, will eventually result in the cessation of the publication of comics books as we know them. Variants form a very large part of that mentality.

[fantastic_four]

I wish someone would explain what the heck is going on in comics today to me; including a variant. I went into a large comic store on 34th Street in Manhattan and was 110% lost. I walked up to the Avengers rack (there used to be a single Avengers run) and there are 20 different Avengers. There are 20 different X-men. Iron Man should be at issue 400 or so and it's nowhere to be found. I get the one shot and the mini-series, but nothing else makes sense. If you remember what comics were like in 1983 and walked into a shop in 2010 then you can figure out how lost I am.

 

I asked a few simple questions and have more questions than when I walked in. "So, Wolverine in Uncanny Xmen is a different Wolverine in this series? Um, ok, what?".

 

This is why there is such a barrier to new reader entry to the hobby.

 

You guys sound EXACTLY like a bunch of old codgers complaining about those damn kids trashing up the mall with their slutty clothes, perverted piercings, loud music, and disrespectful attitudes. Plenty of modern comics have more talented writers, artists, and colorists than comics of the past were ever able to draw. I don't expect most older people to be able to clear their bias enough to realize it though.

 

As to the topic of the thread, yes, they need to tone down the variants.

[500Club]

I wish someone would explain what the heck is going on in comics today to me; including a variant. I went into a large comic store on 34th Street in Manhattan and was 110% lost. I walked up to the Avengers rack (there used to be a single Avengers run) and there are 20 different Avengers. There are 20 different X-men. Iron Man should be at issue 400 or so and it's nowhere to be found. I get the one shot and the mini-series, but nothing else makes sense. If you remember what comics were like in 1983 and walked into a shop in 2010 then you can figure out how lost I am.

 

I asked a few simple questions and have more questions than when I walked in. "So, Wolverine in Uncanny Xmen is a different Wolverine in this series? Um, ok, what?".

 

This is why there is such a barrier to new reader entry to the hobby.

 

You guys sound EXACTLY like a bunch of old codgers complaining about those damn kids trashing up the mall with their slutty clothes, perverted piercings, loud music, and disrespectful attitudes. Plenty of modern comics have more talented writers, artists, and colorists than comics of the past were ever able to draw. I don't expect most older people to be able to clear their bias enough to realize it though.

 

As to the topic of the thread, yes, they need to tone down the variants.

 

The point has nothing to do with the talent of the creators involved.

 

There is a barrier to new reader entry due to convoluted storylines, multiple character titles/versions (Hulk/Red Hulk, Wolverine/Dark Wolverine), 6 part stories,different universes (Ultimate, Marvel 626), and yes, even multiple cover versions.

 

Reread rtemple's post above. Understand he's a previous reader. Then imagine an 11 year old kid who thinks it'd be cool to check out the comics the movies he's seen are based on.

[Claudio]

I wish someone would explain what the heck is going on in comics today to me; including a variant. I went into a large comic store on 34th Street in Manhattan and was 110% lost. I walked up to the Avengers rack (there used to be a single Avengers run) and there are 20 different Avengers. There are 20 different X-men. Iron Man should be at issue 400 or so and it's nowhere to be found. I get the one shot and the mini-series, but nothing else makes sense. If you remember what comics were like in 1983 and walked into a shop in 2010 then you can figure out how lost I am.

 

I asked a few simple questions and have more questions than when I walked in. "So, Wolverine in Uncanny Xmen is a different Wolverine in this series? Um, ok, what?".

 

This is why there is such a barrier to new reader entry to the hobby.

 

You guys sound EXACTLY like a bunch of old codgers complaining about those damn kids trashing up the mall with their slutty clothes, perverted piercings, loud music, and disrespectful attitudes. Plenty of modern comics have more talented writers, artists, and colorists than comics of the past were ever able to draw. I don't expect most older people to be able to clear their bias enough to realize it though.

 

As to the topic of the thread, yes, they need to tone down the variants.

I would agree with you. Plenty of extremely talented people in the biz now. However, I think he was complaining that there was a barrier to entry because no one knows where to pick up a comic. I agree with him. I loved some of the Green lantern stories recently but I fell behind and when i wanted to buy the back issues and catch up, I didn't know what to get! I will look for tpb's to get me back up to speed. I mean, it is hard to follow comics nowadays unless you are a die hard fan

[fantastic_four]

Then imagine an 11 year old kid who thinks it'd be cool to check out the comics the movies he's seen are based on.

 

I imagine him having a far easier time than you--he'll pick a version he thinks looks cool and just start reading it. He'll either ignore the other titles or eventually try to figure them out if the title he's reading intrigues him...either way, he'll be unbiased.

 

My titles--Daredevil, Fantastic Four, Amazing Spider-Man, and Punisher--are just as simple as they were in the 80s, or in two cases--Amazing Spider-Man and Punisher--even simpler thanks to no more spinoff titles (Spectacular Spider-Man, Web of Spider-Man, Spider-Man, Punisher War Zone, etc). They've been that way since I started reading them again in 2000. I've never been able to keep up with the group books at all other than Fantastic Four, even in the 1980s and 1990s, the teams change too often.

[500Club]

Then imagine an 11 year old kid who thinks it'd be cool to check out the comics the movies he's seen are based on.

 

I imagine him having a far easier time than you--he'll pick a version he thinks looks cool and just start reading it. He'll either ignore the other titles or eventually try to figure them out if the title he's reading intrigues him...either way, he'll be unbiased.

 

You may be right.

 

There is that innocent sense of open minded exploration at that age.

 

I just can't escape my gut feeling that you've missed the third possibility, though... that he'll buy part 3 of a 6 part story, won't recognize any of the characters/costumes, won't understand the subplot interludes, and won't bother or be able to find other parts of the now-standard 6 parter.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Why won't (or can't) the pubilcation of comic books see through this re-emergence of variants in the same way it did in the 90's?

 

Couldn't it be said that variants creates new collectors.

 

No.

 

Definitely not.

 

The market is far more fragile than it was in the mid 90's. It wouldn't take much to overturn the apple cart once more.

 

It's that 'something special' that hooks them in.

Eg. New Avengers movie on the horizon, maybe a few new readers stop by the LCS, and they pick up the variant.

Maybe a new collector is born!

 

People want things to be relatively understandable. People can understand "Action Comics #1 through Action Comics #800+."

 

What people cannot understand without volumes of other information at hand, is why there are no less than TWO HUNDRED "#1" issues in existence that have to do with Spider-Man in some way.

 

No foolin'.

 

Which Amazing Spiderman is this? What happened to issues #442-499? What is this #1-58 from 1999-2003 for? Web of Spiderman #1? Spectacular Spiderman #1? Spiderman #1? Sensational Spiderman #1? Ultimate Spideman #1? Volume 1, volume 2, volume 3? Absolute Clonage #1? Hobgoblin Lives #1?

 

And then there are VARIANTS....??

 

:shrug:

 

 

[fantastic_four]

I just can't escape my gut feeling that you've missed the third possibility, though... that he'll buy part 3 of a 6 part story, won't recognize any of the characters/costumes, won't understand the subplot interludes, and won't bother or be able to find other parts of the now-standard 6 parter.

 

That, I refuse to put up with, and it's the reason I only read comics once per year while on vacation. The long story arcs are an indicator of the next stage of comics--monthly issues will go away and the companies will release trade paperbacks only. It's inevitable. When it happens, our back-issue market will begin to erode.

 

The new kid shouldn't have much trouble though, every comics store in my area keeps 6-12 months of issues together so you can go back to the end of an arc. Here's the first X-Men comic I bought back in the 80s...what is it, part 4 or 5 of a long arc involving the Brood? I could tell it was towards the end of the arc while reading it--new comics usually say "part 3 of 6" right on the cover now to make it more obvious--but it intrigued me enough to get issues 161-165 at conventions. My supermarket didn't hold back issues around when I was a kid in the 1980s, but comic shops do now.

 

[Claudio]

I just don't see many kids in comics stores anymore. When I lived in SB, there were some there but they might have been there for the Magic cards. I have been in San Diego for 8 months and I have seen exactly zero kids in a comic store. I think it is because comics are much more confusing than it was when we were kids. I also think that comics are too expensive and that children can spend their money on a lot of different things now.

 

I like what the industry is doing by putting out a lot of tpb's but they need to come up with my solutions.