Disclosure - Yes Or No?

[Flaming_Telepath]

So of the three polls, this one and the two I bumped ( ), it looks like we run roughly 68-32 in favor of open disclosure, with the trend lines being consistent.

 

 

 

Actually, given the amount of noobs we've had lately, it's not a bad thing to take another snap-shot.

 

So, how does polling promote the kind of atmosphere that does away with the thread-crapping and circumspect sentiment? I'll give you the token need disclose (and I've addressed it by suggesting a solution can be found with a blanket disclosure statement).

 

But I think it's far more problematic to want to promote an atmosphere of encouragement to disclose on these boards when you're dividing camps with polls - especially when the only thing this will lead to is more division and unruly behaviour by folks that can't help themselves when it comes to sharing their own opinions and suspicions.

 

How about a probation list for anyone that starts this kind of nonsense in the marketplace? Both ways - for non-disclosure types, and people with a penchant to thread krap?

 

I've got no problem with that...but I know a lot of people would have.

 

And the poll is anonymous, so I can't actually identify any camps? And if there are, they are being remarkably civil?

[skypinkblu]

I say yes to proactively disclosing, for sure here on the Boards, because so many people are concerned. I have also gone so far as to say where I purchased the books so that people can make their own judgments as to the likelihood it may have been smooshed, even if I bought it slabbed.

 

But for those of you who care, you should be asking the question, every time for every book. To not do so is tantamount to a vegetarian walking around a cafeteria with a blindfold on, jamming food in his mouth and then complaining that he was served meat.

You might use a peanut allergy as a stronger example

 

I just don't see it working that way...If someone is not going to disclose upfront, what makes you think they will disclose later? Maybe some people will, but then again, some won't...they will rationalize that to them it's really not restoration, so why bother disclosing? and there are some people who are just plain slimy.

 

I think Nick has another point, it makes for an unwieldy process in the market place...someone tosses up a Take It, and then asks? Or waits and is forever tapping their feet in total angst?

 

If someone takes the approach that Steve Borock does, saying that all of his books might have been pressed, I'm fine with that, at least it's a statement.

 

I am SO glad I do not collect high grade and or bronze...with my stuff, it barely matters, it's just the principle...and there will never be a real solution, just educating new people.

[comicwiz]

So of the three polls, this one and the two I bumped ( ), it looks like we run roughly 68-32 in favor of open disclosure, with the trend lines being consistent.

 

 

 

Actually, given the amount of noobs we've had lately, it's not a bad thing to take another snap-shot.

 

So, how does polling promote the kind of atmosphere that does away with the thread-crapping and circumspect sentiment? I'll give you the token need disclose (and I've addressed it by suggesting a solution can be found with a blanket disclosure statement).

 

But I think it's far more problematic to want to promote an atmosphere of encouragement to disclose on these boards when you're dividing camps with polls - especially when the only thing this will lead to is more division and unruly behaviour by folks that can't help themselves when it comes to sharing their own opinions and suspicions.

 

How about a probation list for anyone that starts this kind of nonsense in the marketplace? Both ways - for non-disclosure types, and people with a penchant to thread krap?

 

I've got no problem with that...but I know a lot of people would have.

 

And the poll is anonymous, so I can't actually identify any camps? And if there are, they are being remarkably civil?

 

Seriously? Come on Nick, I've heard a fist fight broke out at forum dinner over the pressing topic. The topic has been a horse beaten to a pulp and grazed by flies on the boards for years - how can you sit there and say there aren't different sides on this debate? We're even seeing the motivation to volunteer what people voted in this thread as long as it's in the majority interest, but we both know fully well the melee that would surely develop if anyone came here and said they voted no.

[Flaming_Telepath]

So of the three polls, this one and the two I bumped ( ), it looks like we run roughly 68-32 in favor of open disclosure, with the trend lines being consistent.

 

 

 

Actually, given the amount of noobs we've had lately, it's not a bad thing to take another snap-shot.

 

So, how does polling promote the kind of atmosphere that does away with the thread-crapping and circumspect sentiment? I'll give you the token need disclose (and I've addressed it by suggesting a solution can be found with a blanket disclosure statement).

 

But I think it's far more problematic to want to promote an atmosphere of encouragement to disclose on these boards when you're dividing camps with polls - especially when the only thing this will lead to is more division and unruly behaviour by folks that can't help themselves when it comes to sharing their own opinions and suspicions.

 

How about a probation list for anyone that starts this kind of nonsense in the marketplace? Both ways - for non-disclosure types, and people with a penchant to thread krap?

 

I've got no problem with that...but I know a lot of people would have.

 

And the poll is anonymous, so I can't actually identify any camps? And if there are, they are being remarkably civil?

 

Seriously? Come on Nick, I've heard fist fights have broken out at forum dinners over the pressing topic. The topic has been a horse beaten to a pulp and grazed by flies on the boards for years - how can you sit there and say there aren't different sides on this debate? We're even seeing the motivation to volunteer what people voted in this thread as long as it's in the majority, but we both know fully well the melee that would develop if anyone came here and said they voted no.

 

Actually, all the recent pressing threads have been remarkably civil. Perhaps it's acceptance? Perhaps it's maturity? Perhaps they haven't been deliberately derailed?

 

Who knows?

 

What I do know is that with more and more weekend warriors 'offering their services', this still remains a topical...well, topic.

 

And as I said to Donut, with the influx of noobs of late, they should (a) get to hear about it and (b) get to express their opinion.

[comicwiz]

So of the three polls, this one and the two I bumped ( ), it looks like we run roughly 68-32 in favor of open disclosure, with the trend lines being consistent.

 

 

 

Actually, given the amount of noobs we've had lately, it's not a bad thing to take another snap-shot.

 

So, how does polling promote the kind of atmosphere that does away with the thread-crapping and circumspect sentiment? I'll give you the token need disclose (and I've addressed it by suggesting a solution can be found with a blanket disclosure statement).

 

But I think it's far more problematic to want to promote an atmosphere of encouragement to disclose on these boards when you're dividing camps with polls - especially when the only thing this will lead to is more division and unruly behaviour by folks that can't help themselves when it comes to sharing their own opinions and suspicions.

 

How about a probation list for anyone that starts this kind of nonsense in the marketplace? Both ways - for non-disclosure types, and people with a penchant to thread krap?

 

I've got no problem with that...but I know a lot of people would have.

 

And the poll is anonymous, so I can't actually identify any camps? And if there are, they are being remarkably civil?

 

Seriously? Come on Nick, I've heard fist fights have broken out at forum dinners over the pressing topic. The topic has been a horse beaten to a pulp and grazed by flies on the boards for years - how can you sit there and say there aren't different sides on this debate? We're even seeing the motivation to volunteer what people voted in this thread as long as it's in the majority, but we both know fully well the melee that would develop if anyone came here and said they voted no.

 

Actually, all the recent pressing threads have been remarkably civil. Perhaps it's acceptance? Perhaps it's maturity? Perhaps they haven't been deliberately derailed?

 

Who knows?

 

What I do know is that with more and more weekend warriors 'offering their services', this still remains a topical...well, topic.

 

And as I said to Donut, with the influx of noobs of late, they should (a) get to hear about it and (b) get to express their opinion.

 

Maybe they should also be warned about the hot heads, and the repercussions of sharing an opinion that might go against conventional wisdom.

[pickycollector]

I voted yes.

 

I strongly believe that :

 

If you know that a book has been pressed, you should disclose it.

If you know that a book has NOT been pressed, you should disclose it.

If you DON'T know that a book has been pressed or not, you should disclose it.

 

Now, while it is a no-brainer for me here in the boards, where pressing is such a sensitive topic and well known subject, what if you sell a book on an auction site, like Comiclink, through an auction consignement service, that you know it has been pressed but you cannot disclose it ?

 

And when you list a book on eBay, disclose it as pressed or non-pressed and receive several questions about what is pressing ?

[Flaming_Telepath]

I voted yes.

 

I strongly believe that :

 

If you know that a book has been pressed, you should disclose it.

If you know that a book has NOT been pressed, you should disclose it.

If you DON'T know that a book has been pressed or not, you should disclose it.

 

Now, while it is a no-brainer for me here in the boards, where pressing is such a sensitive topic and well known subject, what if you sell a book on an auction site, like Comiclink, through an auction consignement service, that you know it has been pressed but you cannot disclose it ?

 

And when you list a book on eBay, disclose it as pressed or non-pressed and receive several questions about what is pressing ?

 

Much bigger issue...and discussion...Patrick.

 

However, I'm trying to keep this entirely board-centric, looking at this solely from the 'community' angle and the Marketplace. (thumbs u

[ChasingKingKirby]

I say yes to proactively disclosing, for sure here on the Boards, because so many people are concerned. I have also gone so far as to say where I purchased the books so that people can make their own judgments as to the likelihood it may have been smooshed, even if I bought it slabbed.

 

But for those of you who care, you should be asking the question, every time for every book. To not do so is tantamount to a vegetarian walking around a cafeteria with a blindfold on, jamming food in his mouth and then complaining that he was served meat.

 

YES

[Bruce1971]

Yes I would like people to disclose pressing, but should they have to. I am on the sidelines on this one as either I don't have enough information, or maybe there is not enough information out there.

 

1. Does it damage books. Joey says no, or a negligible amount. Is he right, I am not sure. I am pretty sure he has not sent the books to a lab to have the paper fibers analyzed.

 

2. Will the book revert to its original form, or somewhere in-between? Like how about that More Fun Steve bought off of Ebay, I think it was stored in a coffee container. Really nice book, and a press in this case was warranted, unless of course you like your books to look like an accordion. Will a book this bad revert, at least partly, over time? If this is the case, then I think its fair to say pressing should be disclosed as without it the grade is misleading.

 

3. This is a question with an answer we will never get. If CGC could reliably detect pressing would they consider it restoration? Obviously they can't say yes, at least until they can reliably detect pressing.

 

Whether we like it or not, if the book will always come back in a blue label (lets say CGC states they will not consider it restoration even if they can detect it) then why should the seller have an obligation to state it has been pressed, even though we would all like to know. The book is graded raw 8.5 no restoration, and comes back from CGC 8.5 blue, and will always come back blue, and the grade will never change from the book reverting back to its pre-pressing form, how has the dealer mislead you?

 

I think the problem we have as collectors, is we want grading to be a science but we allow to many emotions to get involved. How about CGC, dot of glue or CT, intent is used to decide. I think, but don't know, but think, that maybe someone, but I don't know who, was working on a model kit beside this comic book when the glue somehow got on it. Really, is that scientific. How about date stamps, arrival dates in pen, Lamont Larson in pen. Take away intent, how are they different then CT, remember no emotion, so intent doesn't count. Production defects vs non-production defects. So what if every copy of a book has a defect, it should just mean that no copy of that book is above a certain grade, say 9.0. Why give less weight to a bindery tear compared to the same little tear the book received when it got caught going back in the mylar.

 

Personally I think all the strong opinions are just collectors being, and rightly so, frustrated with being taken advantage of by other in the hobby. Pressing is just another example of this. Even if it may not be as wrong as some think it is. Or maybe it is, as I said I don't have enough knowledge of the subject to have anything but an emotional opinion myself.

 

 

[Bruce1971]

So of the three polls, this one and the two I bumped ( ), it looks like we run roughly 68-32 in favor of open disclosure, with the trend lines being consistent.

 

 

 

Actually, given the amount of noobs we've had lately, it's not a bad thing to take another snap-shot.

 

So, how does polling promote the kind of atmosphere that does away with the thread-crapping and circumspect sentiment? I'll give you the token need disclose (and I've addressed it by suggesting a solution can be found with a blanket disclosure statement).

 

But I think it's far more problematic to want to promote an atmosphere of encouragement to disclose on these boards when you're dividing camps with polls - especially when the only thing this will lead to is more division and unruly behaviour by folks that can't help themselves when it comes to sharing their own opinions and suspicions.

 

How about a probation list for anyone that starts this kind of nonsense in the marketplace? Both ways - for non-disclosure types, and people with a penchant to thread krap?

 

I've got no problem with that...but I know a lot of people would have.

 

And the poll is anonymous, so I can't actually identify any camps? And if there are, they are being remarkably civil?

 

Seriously? Come on Nick, I've heard fist fights have broken out at forum dinners over the pressing topic. The topic has been a horse beaten to a pulp and grazed by flies on the boards for years - how can you sit there and say there aren't different sides on this debate? We're even seeing the motivation to volunteer what people voted in this thread as long as it's in the majority, but we both know fully well the melee that would develop if anyone came here and said they voted no.

 

Actually, all the recent pressing threads have been remarkably civil. Perhaps it's acceptance? Perhaps it's maturity? Perhaps they haven't been deliberately derailed?

 

Who knows?

 

What I do know is that with more and more weekend warriors 'offering their services', this still remains a topical...well, topic.

 

And as I said to Donut, with the influx of noobs of late, they should (a) get to hear about it and (b) get to express their opinion.

 

Sure the pressing threads have been civil, but I have seen a few threads in the last week, that turned nasty against a poster. In the one thread the poster was rude, but did voice a honest opinion against a popular board member and was blasted for it. The boards are like an old boys club, if you want do dissent you have to be one of the in members or else you get a new one ripped.

[jimjum12]

I'd like to add that I have no problem with pressing or pressed books. I will buy a pressed book & I will sell a pressed book. But when I sell the book, I will disclose. I expect that same business sense & courtesy when I buy.

 

It all comes down to disclosure. [/quote

 

+ 1.....GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[t3quila]

If it was pressed then placed in a slab, who cares. If it was pressed and passed around raw, then yes.

...i must be missing your point?

 

I am just saying if you press it and slab it once then it really doesn't hurt the book. What is the chance of it being opened again and getting damaged.

 

I know if I pressed it and kept it raw I would disclose because the new owner may end up doing it down the road and it could have an impact, to much pressing over the same area is bad.

 

Books can, and have been pressed more than once. The damage debate has solid points on both sides of the argument. I guess where I have trouble with the whole disclosure topic is that I have no control over what happened with the book prior to it coming into my possession. So if pro-active disclosure means saying all books I have may have been pressed, and that makes the anti-pressing side happy, I would tell them to assume all books are pressed before they should expect people to use a blanket disclosure approach.

 

What about people who take a raw, unmanipulated book, press it, slab it and immediately sell it here?

 

Would that not deserve/require pro-active disclosure?

 

Because most of the 'anti-pressing' side has agreed that it will also accept 'this book has not to my knowledge been pressed' if that is genuinely the case.

 

Fair enough, but your greatly oversimplifying "anti-pressings" acceptance, because it's quite evident, no matter how the listing is disclaimed, that they've made/formed their own opinions and suspicions (and quite often make it openly known) as soon as they see a book they deem impressive.

 

If the aim is to make the environment more amenable to pro-actively disclose, make the environment more friendly, and less circumspect, on people's approach to disclosure.

 

The problem, Joseph, is that a number of sellers are known to be selling books that they personally have pressed/have had pressed without disclosure in the Marketplace, thus creating in large part the culture.

 

I'd like to see that disappear...along with a more transparent, honest atmosphere being encouraged. But that's just me.

 

Nick, when I was in my mid-20's, my health was my number one priority. I was training 7 days a week, and I won't go into specifics on my achievements. Suffice it to say that no matter what I told people, they automatically assumed I was using steroids. If they had asked, I would have told them that my entire lifestyle revolved around training. My nutritional approach meant preparing for the following day's weight training regimen. Currently, I'm lucky if I could prepare a meal a half hour in advance of lunch or supper. I sacrificed a great deal of my social life (went to bed early, did absolutely no drinking, etc.) to achieve my goals. But people didn't want to hear about this side of dedicated training, all they cared to do was spread rumours about how I accomplished my goals.

 

I would have liked for that rumour mongering to have disappeared, but ultimately, I had to shut it out and stuck to the core philosophies that allowed me to achieve my personal goals. So yes, I know something about how culture influences, shapes and sometimes distorts the truth, and ultimately, the way it effects our ability to think independently. But this experience, if anything, has taught me to accept the fact that I can't change what people think or want to believe. Taking the rationale of this experience to the pressing debate, if you have a problem with the culture and trading post of deceit that's erected itself in our community, then you're certainly welcome to address it in whichever way you please. But this hobby is a pastime for me, and outside of me collecting in fringe markets like undergrounds and books no one cares to press, or that cannot be CGC graded, there is very little else I can do to separate myself from the motivation of greed from the hobby.

 

I couldn't read all that as there were no pictures with the words, but what I want to know is did you take steroids?

[Claudio]

 

Actually, all the recent pressing threads have been remarkably civil. Perhaps it's acceptance? Perhaps it's maturity? Perhaps they haven't been deliberately derailed?

 

Who knows?

 

Or maybe because the antipressers are standing in front of a tidal wave and shaking their fists at it won't help.

 

Should pressing be disclosed? Yes. It should. I think it is too late for that. Waaay too many pressed books out there that people don't know are pressed. And the amount of pressed books will continue to grow and grow and become an increasingly larger percentage of total books out there.

 

I was against pressing at the beginning and I still don't like the idea of it BUT if I were going to sell some high grade books nowadays, I would have to at least consider it. If I didn't press them some scummy ( ) presser would get to it and make thousands of more dollars off it.

[fantastic_four]

I was against pressing at the beginning and I still don't like the idea of it BUT if I were going to sell some high grade books nowadays, I would have to at least consider it. If I didn't press them some scummy ( ) presser would get to it and make thousands of more dollars off it.

 

GOOOOOOOOD, I can feel your anger. I am defenseless. Take your weapon. Strike me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!

 

[Claudio]

DON'T GET ME STARTED ON STAR WARS AGAIN!!!!!!

[8milemax]

DON'T GET ME STARTED ON STAR WARS AGAIN!!!!!!

 

You are part of the anti pressers and a traitor! Take her away!

 

[8milemax]

Darth Maul "I need to find the queen! She has to be stopped from pressing that comic"

 

[Larryw7]

I answered Yes. Pressing isn't a big deal to me, especially on non pedigree books, but it should be disclosed. It wouldn't sway me from buying a book though, as long as the pressing was done correctly.

[Claudio]

 

I did get to read some Star Wars Tales of the Jedi comics last night and I feel better now.

[thirdgreenham]

Yes, I'd love for everyone to pro-actively disclose. How hard is it to put "This book has been pressed" beside every pressed book that you are selling? I know it may be a lot of work for some, if you have a lot of books, but copy/paste has really made this quite simple now.

 

Andy