Have you ever seen a ghost?

[MedicAR]

Another idea that is a part of the energy theory is that granite somehow holds energy. The Stanley Hotel is supposedly built in an area full of granite, so there is more activity there.

 

I'm not finding it on the net right now, but I've heard speculation that granite and lightning have a weird relationship as well.

[Shootydog]

But I am absolutely convinced of the truth of my statements, without doubt in any way. There's absolutely no question in my mind about it.

 

I am too. 100%.

 

I just realize that I can't fully understand everything at once and so leave a little room for better interpretation on some things.

 

 

The implication being, of course, that I think I DO fully understand everything at once and don't leave room for better interpretations on some things.

 

 

Since, in the entire course of recorded human history, thousands and thousands of years, no one has ever been able to provide concrete evidence of the spiritual world, I'm going to suggest that "a better interpretation" on THIS matter does not exist, and is not likely to exist (again, based on the lack of such existence for the past, oh, 6,000 years or so), and therefore, my conclusion is a safe one to have (not that it's accurate per se, but that it's not likely to be successfully challenged by anyone.)

 

Do you think you/we are so much more special than the rest of humanity that the secrets of the afterlife are going to be revealed to you/us, when such secrets have been hidden from mankind for all of recorded history thus far...?

 

 

 

My only response to this argument is to take the history of astronomy into account. To go from believing that the sky is a flat disk of land surrounded by water to understanding the immensity of the Universe...its vastness...and the godlike power that are displayed by the forces that shape it. It is itself a wonder and I use it as a measure of what may lie ahead for us to experience.

 

I will not discount entirely 1000s of years of anecdotal evidence simply because It hasn't been proven yet. Mankind is still learning. Its close minded to do so.

 

Have I ever seen a ghost? No. Do I believe they exist? I have no evidence either way but I sure don't have the hubris to discount them outright.

 

What is hubris to you is conviction to others.

 

Astronomy is a field of SCIENCE. The universe can be observed, physically. The afterlife cannot. To try and compare a field of science with a field which is strictly based on personal belief is absurd. We will learn more about the PHYSICAL universe as we continue on. But our knowledge of "what happens after we die" is in the same exact place NOW as it was 6,000 years ago, 5,000 years ago, 1,000 years ago, 100 years ago, yesterday.

 

We know no more...nor no less..than we did in the past. You cannot compare a field of science with personal belief. I believe what I believe for very specific reasons, but those beliefs are no more provable than yours. To say that ANY belief about the unknowable is "hubris" is itself hubris.

 

Oh, and by the way...not everyone bought into the "idea" that the world was a flat disc around which the sun, moon, and stars rotated.

 

You have entirely missed my point and I frankly don't want to argue with you ad nauseum because that's what will happen...you will belabor the discussion until you have the last word.

 

Ill go ahead and accomodate you.

[Mr. 10%]

Halloween is just a few days away, so here I am posting my annual inquiry into your experiences with ghostly apparitions. I know many of you don't believe in ghosts. Heck, I don't think I do, either. But I love hearing the stories, and it puts me in a Halloween mood. I, myself, have never seen anything paranormal, but I sure would like to.

 

So, without further ado, Have You Ever Seen a Ghost? Please share your stories...

 

No, but I once - a night - found myself in very, very close proximity to something one would call a demon or a dementor-like sun-of-a-spoon. Night. I was half awake. But not asleep. You can say that this "thing" - It was nested in a half dissolved dream of mine. When I woke up I was not even aware that it was there. Sounds completely cray I know. But it was kind of 'outside' the dream - not created by the dream (which was not a dream but a nightmare). It was sitting on the edge of it. Its close to impossble to describe (especially in a very short version). I know that you will say: ahh it was a dream. It was definitely not. I have never, ever experienced anything like it. Prayer banished away. It was very, very real. And very physical. A completely untell-able story really But it happened.

[mackenzie999]

I don't believe in ghosts, but I have no rational explanation for the following experience:

 

I grew up in a very old house (c. 1850) just outside of Boston. My bedroom was on the second floor. I would occasionally wake up in the middle of the night to the sound of voices above me, coming from the attic. This will sound terribly corny for lack of a better way of putting this, but the voices I heard were neither human nor any language I recognized, although they were clearly articulate sounds. Gutteral mumbling / grumbling is the best way to describe this. I was pretty freaked out at first, but after a few occurrences I went up to the attic to see what was going on, although I never found anything. Any rational reader will assume I was dreaming or otherwise imagining this, and that is what I told myself even though it really seemed very real to me. The only other people in the house were my parents, and the house was not situated close enough to any neighbors to simply be some acoustic anomaly.

 

Countering this though, was the night I sneaked my girlfriend in for an overnighter and in the middle of the night she woke me up, completely freaked out with goosebumps you could grate cheese on. We could both hear the voices this time! It felt really, really good to be vindicated, although I couldn't tell my parents without getting busted for sneaking my gf up to my room.

 

 

 

 

[nearmint]

I don't believe in ghosts, but I have no rational explanation for the following experience:

 

I grew up in a very old house (c. 1850) just outside of Boston. My bedroom was on the second floor. I would occasionally wake up in the middle of the night to the sound of voices above me, coming from the attic. This will sound terribly corny for lack of a better way of putting this, but the voices I heard were neither human nor any language I recognized, although they were clearly articulate sounds. Gutteral mumbling / grumbling is the best way to describe this. I was pretty freaked out at first, but after a few occurrences I went up to the attic to see what was going on, although I never found anything. Any rational reader will assume I was dreaming or otherwise imagining this, and that is what I told myself even though it really seemed very real to me. The only other people in the house were my parents, and the house was not situated close enough to any neighbors to simply be some acoustic anomaly.

 

Countering this though, was the night I sneaked my girlfriend in for an overnighter and in the middle of the night she woke me up, completely freaked out with goosebumps you could grate cheese on. We could both hear the voices this time! It felt really, really good to be vindicated, although I couldn't tell my parents without getting busted for sneaking my gf up to my room.

 

I'd be so tempted to put a tape recorder or video camera up there.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

Where did Joeypost refer to "an old man in the sky"...?

 

:shrug:

 

Joey didn't. Shooty himself did. He was being self-referentially tongue in cheek, and making sure that everyone didn't think he was being deliberately insulting. I always read his posts carefully, and it was clear to me.

 

I don't always agree with Shooty, but I always enjoy his posting.

 

 

Welp, I see Fingh's in Apologist mode today...

 

[seanfingh]

 

Where did Joeypost refer to "an old man in the sky"...?

 

:shrug:

 

Joey didn't. Shooty himself did. He was being self-referentially tongue in cheek, and making sure that everyone didn't think he was being deliberately insulting. I always read his posts carefully, and it was clear to me.

 

I don't always agree with Shooty, but I always enjoy his posting.

 

 

Welp, I see Fingh's in Apologist mode today...

 

 

When i see you start to get wound up tighter than a DT-90, I like to make sure some of the tension is released. It's better for everyone that way.

[G.A.tor]

you all are silly, everyone knows there are no such things as ghosts...

 

Why? I used to believe that, but the more I see and learn, the more I believe.

 

Think about it. What we we? At our most basic what makes us "us" is our energy. There is an electrical energy in our body. It's electrical energy that allows us to think and feel. It's electrical energy that allows us to move. It's an amazing electrical energy that allows our hearts to beat. The only noticible difference between a live body and a very recently dead body is the lack of energy. Since energy is never created or destroyed and it only changes form, who are to say that our energy or "self" or "soul" or whatever doesn't leave us and go elsewhere?

 

I'm not saying I'm right or that you're wrong. I'm just putting my most current view out there. I started as a non-believer.

my post was tongue and cheek

[MedicAR]

you all are silly, everyone knows there are no such things as ghosts...

 

Why? I used to believe that, but the more I see and learn, the more I believe.

 

Think about it. What we we? At our most basic what makes us "us" is our energy. There is an electrical energy in our body. It's electrical energy that allows us to think and feel. It's electrical energy that allows us to move. It's an amazing electrical energy that allows our hearts to beat. The only noticible difference between a live body and a very recently dead body is the lack of energy. Since energy is never created or destroyed and it only changes form, who are to say that our energy or "self" or "soul" or whatever doesn't leave us and go elsewhere?

 

I'm not saying I'm right or that you're wrong. I'm just putting my most current view out there. I started as a non-believer.

my post was tongue and cheek

 

I caught that later.

 

[supapimp]

silly nerds...superheroes don't exist.

[RockMyAmadeus]

But I am absolutely convinced of the truth of my statements, without doubt in any way. There's absolutely no question in my mind about it.

 

I am too. 100%.

 

I just realize that I can't fully understand everything at once and so leave a little room for better interpretation on some things.

 

 

The implication being, of course, that I think I DO fully understand everything at once and don't leave room for better interpretations on some things.

 

 

Since, in the entire course of recorded human history, thousands and thousands of years, no one has ever been able to provide concrete evidence of the spiritual world, I'm going to suggest that "a better interpretation" on THIS matter does not exist, and is not likely to exist (again, based on the lack of such existence for the past, oh, 6,000 years or so), and therefore, my conclusion is a safe one to have (not that it's accurate per se, but that it's not likely to be successfully challenged by anyone.)

 

Do you think you/we are so much more special than the rest of humanity that the secrets of the afterlife are going to be revealed to you/us, when such secrets have been hidden from mankind for all of recorded history thus far...?

 

 

 

My only response to this argument is to take the history of astronomy into account. To go from believing that the sky is a flat disk of land surrounded by water to understanding the immensity of the Universe...its vastness...and the godlike power that are displayed by the forces that shape it. It is itself a wonder and I use it as a measure of what may lie ahead for us to experience.

 

I will not discount entirely 1000s of years of anecdotal evidence simply because It hasn't been proven yet. Mankind is still learning. Its close minded to do so.

 

Have I ever seen a ghost? No. Do I believe they exist? I have no evidence either way but I sure don't have the hubris to discount them outright.

 

What is hubris to you is conviction to others.

 

Astronomy is a field of SCIENCE. The universe can be observed, physically. The afterlife cannot. To try and compare a field of science with a field which is strictly based on personal belief is absurd. We will learn more about the PHYSICAL universe as we continue on. But our knowledge of "what happens after we die" is in the same exact place NOW as it was 6,000 years ago, 5,000 years ago, 1,000 years ago, 100 years ago, yesterday.

 

We know no more...nor no less..than we did in the past. You cannot compare a field of science with personal belief. I believe what I believe for very specific reasons, but those beliefs are no more provable than yours. To say that ANY belief about the unknowable is "hubris" is itself hubris.

 

Oh, and by the way...not everyone bought into the "idea" that the world was a flat disc around which the sun, moon, and stars rotated.

 

You have entirely missed my point and I frankly don't want to argue with you ad nauseum because that's what will happen...you will belabor the discussion until you have the last word.

 

Ill go ahead and accomodate you.

 

Nah, I'm pretty certain I nailed your point on the head, and you're now backpedaling because you realize how silly your argument was, but don't want to admit it, so you'll deflect and make this personal.

 

There's nothing whatsoever preventing us from having a vigorous discussion and you presenting how I entirely missed your point, other than perhaps your own pride, which has caused you to make this statement.

 

Oh well. Our mutual loss.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

Where did Joeypost refer to "an old man in the sky"...?

 

:shrug:

 

Joey didn't. Shooty himself did. He was being self-referentially tongue in cheek, and making sure that everyone didn't think he was being deliberately insulting. I always read his posts carefully, and it was clear to me.

 

I don't always agree with Shooty, but I always enjoy his posting.

 

 

Welp, I see Fingh's in Apologist mode today...

 

 

When i see you start to get wound up tighter than a DT-90, I like to make sure some of the tension is released. It's better for everyone that way.

 

Now you're just being a . No one's wound up.

 

And you've apparently missed the rhetorical point of my question to Shooty. Because you're right, Joey did NOT bring up an "old man in the sky", but because he used the word "biblical", Shooty brought the "old man in the sky" into the argument.

 

There's no "old man in the sky" mentioned anywhere in the Bible.

 

(thumbs u

[jools&jim]

 

Back in 1969 or so, my mother's aunt came to live with us for the last few months of her life. I was only 3 or 4 at the time, and didn't learn until years later that Aunt Mary (much beloved by everyone in my family) was actually dying of cancer, and that my mom was caring for her, mostly by administering morphine injections. She was eventually transferred to a local hospital, where she died in 1970.

 

By the mid-'70s, my family had moved several times due to my dad's job, and we were settling in to a new house across the river from Harrisburg, PA. Among the first things that my mom always unpacked (after the clothes and towels and dishes and stuff like that) were family photos and heirlooms, including Aunt Mary's old musical jewelry box, which my mom inherited and had been using on her dresser ever since Mary died.

 

It was a very ornately carved wooden box (probably cherry or maybe teak, and most likely of European origin...Mary had exceptional and somewhat exotic taste), and it would play "The Blue Danube" waltz when you opened the lid. (Or it used to -- I got at it as a little kid, over-wound the music box mechanism, and caught hell for breaking it.) It was still a very lovely piece of old-world craftsmanship and perfectly useful...but also silent.

 

And then, a month or two after everything had been unpacked in the new house...the music box played again, all by itself, in the middle of the night, but only for a few seconds: "Dah-dah-dah-dah-DAH...dah-dah, dah-dah...".

 

And then it played again, a month or so later, at roughly the same time of night.

 

And then again a few months later.

 

And then again...a year or so later. And again. And again. And again -- always in the middle of the night, always just a few bars, and then...silence.

 

And it always scared the living cr@p out of me.

 

My dad, on the other hand--survivor of both the Great Depression and the Battle of Okinawa (among others)--didn't scare easily, and certainly wouldn't be put off his food by such a dainty and feminine artifact. But it did wake him up. So every time the music played, he would say the same thing:

 

"Go back to sleep, Mary..."

 

And then one day, years later, it just stopped playing for us. And to this day it still sits on my mom's dresser, still broken, still silent after all these years.

 

 

[Shootydog]

But I am absolutely convinced of the truth of my statements, without doubt in any way. There's absolutely no question in my mind about it.

 

I am too. 100%.

 

I just realize that I can't fully understand everything at once and so leave a little room for better interpretation on some things.

 

 

The implication being, of course, that I think I DO fully understand everything at once and don't leave room for better interpretations on some things.

 

 

Since, in the entire course of recorded human history, thousands and thousands of years, no one has ever been able to provide concrete evidence of the spiritual world, I'm going to suggest that "a better interpretation" on THIS matter does not exist, and is not likely to exist (again, based on the lack of such existence for the past, oh, 6,000 years or so), and therefore, my conclusion is a safe one to have (not that it's accurate per se, but that it's not likely to be successfully challenged by anyone.)

 

Do you think you/we are so much more special than the rest of humanity that the secrets of the afterlife are going to be revealed to you/us, when such secrets have been hidden from mankind for all of recorded history thus far...?

 

 

 

My only response to this argument is to take the history of astronomy into account. To go from believing that the sky is a flat disk of land surrounded by water to understanding the immensity of the Universe...its vastness...and the godlike power that are displayed by the forces that shape it. It is itself a wonder and I use it as a measure of what may lie ahead for us to experience.

 

I will not discount entirely 1000s of years of anecdotal evidence simply because It hasn't been proven yet. Mankind is still learning. Its close minded to do so.

 

Have I ever seen a ghost? No. Do I believe they exist? I have no evidence either way but I sure don't have the hubris to discount them outright.

 

What is hubris to you is conviction to others.

 

Astronomy is a field of SCIENCE. The universe can be observed, physically. The afterlife cannot. To try and compare a field of science with a field which is strictly based on personal belief is absurd. We will learn more about the PHYSICAL universe as we continue on. But our knowledge of "what happens after we die" is in the same exact place NOW as it was 6,000 years ago, 5,000 years ago, 1,000 years ago, 100 years ago, yesterday.

 

We know no more...nor no less..than we did in the past. You cannot compare a field of science with personal belief. I believe what I believe for very specific reasons, but those beliefs are no more provable than yours. To say that ANY belief about the unknowable is "hubris" is itself hubris.

 

Oh, and by the way...not everyone bought into the "idea" that the world was a flat disc around which the sun, moon, and stars rotated.

 

You have entirely missed my point and I frankly don't want to argue with you ad nauseum because that's what will happen...you will belabor the discussion until you have the last word.

 

Ill go ahead and accomodate you.

 

Nah, I'm pretty certain I nailed your point on the head, and you're now backpedaling because you realize how silly your argument was, but don't want to admit it, so you'll deflect and make this personal.

 

There's nothing whatsoever preventing us from having a vigorous discussion and you presenting how I entirely missed your point, other than perhaps your own pride, which has caused you to make this statement.

 

Oh well. Our mutual loss.

 

Other than Im at work and I don't have time to get into a huge philosophical discussion over a point that really doesn't matte much to a hill of beans. Personal beliefs aside I don't feel its a healthy attitude to discount the unknown. I would hope that if your attitude is that you don't believe in such things you wouldn't stop researching or trying to learn WHY these stories always seem to persist through the ages.

 

My interest in the unknown is academic. My interest in Theology is academic. They are both entirely segregated from my own personal beliefs...or faith, if you will.

 

I will admit to a large amount of pride thanks to my father. I get it honest I suppose so it does color my opinions and efforts to get my point across sometimes. That's a character flaw I readily admit.

 

But I'm sincere when I say its important for the good of all mankind not to discount something that hasn't been proven.....isnt that the essence of the Scientific method anyway? If the aforementioned astronomers had taken that attitude we wouldn't have th empirical evidence we have today.

 

The search for knowledge must continue....regardless of how silly it may seem to some. That's my only point.

[seanfingh]

 

Where did Joeypost refer to "an old man in the sky"...?

 

:shrug:

 

Joey didn't. Shooty himself did. He was being self-referentially tongue in cheek, and making sure that everyone didn't think he was being deliberately insulting. I always read his posts carefully, and it was clear to me.

 

I don't always agree with Shooty, but I always enjoy his posting.

 

 

Welp, I see Fingh's in Apologist mode today...

 

 

When i see you start to get wound up tighter than a DT-90, I like to make sure some of the tension is released. It's better for everyone that way.

 

Now you're just being a . No one's wound up.

 

And you've apparently missed the rhetorical point of my question to Shooty. Because you're right, Joey did NOT bring up an "old man in the sky", but because he used the word "biblical", Shooty brought the "old man in the sky" into the argument.

 

There's no "old man in the sky" mentioned anywhere in the Bible.

 

(thumbs u

 

The bottom line is that spiritualism and religion may or may not be one in the same depending upon with whom you speak. Shooty's interjection of religion into a spiritual discussion was not, by its nature problematic. Except apparently, to you. And watch the damn (thumbs u

[RockMyAmadeus]

The bottom line is that spiritualism and religion may or may not be one in the same depending upon with whom you speak. Shooty's interjection of religion into a spiritual discussion was not, by its nature problematic. Except apparently, to you. And watch the damn (thumbs u

 

You've utterly missed the point. My question had nothing whatsoever to do with religion vs. spirituality. Nothing whatsoever.

 

My question was very narrow, focused, and specific. Joeypost said nothing about "an old man in the sky", but Shooty automatically used that terminology as if everyone accepted the idea that the Bible = old man in the sky. I challenged that notion.

 

Nothing more. Nothing less. Don't read things that aren't there.

[Shootydog]

 

Where did Joeypost refer to "an old man in the sky"...?

 

:shrug:

 

Joey didn't. Shooty himself did. He was being self-referentially tongue in cheek, and making sure that everyone didn't think he was being deliberately insulting. I always read his posts carefully, and it was clear to me.

 

I don't always agree with Shooty, but I always enjoy his posting.

 

 

Welp, I see Fingh's in Apologist mode today...

 

 

When i see you start to get wound up tighter than a DT-90, I like to make sure some of the tension is released. It's better for everyone that way.

 

Now you're just being a . No one's wound up.

 

And you've apparently missed the rhetorical point of my question to Shooty. Because you're right, Joey did NOT bring up an "old man in the sky", but because he used the word "biblical", Shooty brought the "old man in the sky" into the argument.

 

There's no "old man in the sky" mentioned anywhere in the Bible.

 

(thumbs u

 

Your using a classic Straw Man to take my response out of context.

 

This is why its no fun to "discuss" with you.

[DiceX]

I wish I had a nickel for every post that I typed out, then ended up clicking the "back" button before I submitted it, all based upon the fear of Architect.

 

 

[Dark Prime 0]

friend just came back from gettysberg and saw a ghost

i do also know (according to him) when a family member is in the hospital and dying he'll have a dream of said person saying goodbye or being toched on the leg and wakes up looks at the time, then later finds out it's close to the time the person died (happed 3 times so far that he told me)

 

my aunt & uncle claim they know the smell of death, and whenever they smell it someone they know dies (sickenly sweet to real raunchy/bad in about 2-3sec's) 1st time they smelt is when they found a cousen dead on his couch

 

my uncle clames that while driveing (drunk) it was heavy rain someone appeared in front of his car, he hit them and their head flew off and hit his windsheild, then he hit a car, he pulls over frighted out of his mind and gets out, their is a overturned car that he hit, he gets all the beer and dumps it, and throws all the cans a short distance away and just sits down

short while later cops come down the road & find him and the overturned car and the beer which he admitts is his.....now the kicker, their was an accident he hit an already over turned car and the 2 people that were in it were dead, but they died at impact not when my uncle later hit it, also no edivence he had hit anything other then the car was aressted for DUI and nothing else

 

i know the answer will be "but he was drinking and was maybe seeing things", thing about my uncle is he drinks beer like me or you would drink water or soda (time he wakes up till he goes to sleep), walkes perfectly strait, talks with no sluer to his words and drives all the time and the only times he's had accidens is bc of his own stupidity and the beer is just what he get caught with (last one was 20 or so yrs ago)

 

their is a medium in the area who is conised by the chalotic church as being real

(all info is me trying to remember excat details from friends sister and 2 others)

she only deals in 1st names, no last names so people can't clam she looked them up to get info (this i do remember bc they were real hard on getting us to know it)

your not allowed to say anything for awhile (if new) as she just pulls random things out that (from what i've heard) are all true about your history (if i remember correctly, it's been a few years since i've heard about her)

 

me i do beleive, have been to abandoned places and have gotten voices on a recorder that were not heard with my ears (others were there and didn't hear it at the time as well)

[RockMyAmadeus]

Other than Im at work and I don't have time to get into a huge philosophical discussion over a point that really doesn't matte much to a hill of beans. Personal beliefs aside I don't feel its a healthy attitude to discount the unknown. I would hope that if your attitude is that you don't believe in such things you wouldn't stop researching or trying to learn WHY these stories always seem to persist through the ages.

 

My interest in the unknown is academic. My interest in Theology is academic. They are both entirely segregated from my own personal beliefs...or faith, if you will.

 

I will admit to a large amount of pride thanks to my father. I get it honest I suppose so it does color my opinions and efforts to get my point across sometimes. That's a character flaw I readily admit.

 

But I'm sincere when I say its important for the good of all mankind not to discount something that hasn't been proven.....isnt that the essence of the Scientific method anyway? If the aforementioned astronomers had taken that attitude we wouldn't have th empirical evidence we have today.

 

The search for knowledge must continue....regardless of how silly it may seem to some. That's my only point.

 

Without trying to appear condescending, I'll say this again: I am not, have not, and did not discount the unknown. I have specifically stated that there is a spiritual world beyond our physical senses. By it's very nature, it's unknown. However...that doesn't mean that I can't discount ASPECTS of the unknown which I believe have been revealed to humanity. And that doesn't mean that if I discount those things which I believe have been revealed to humanity that I am wholesale discounting the unknown (even if you believe that "anything is possible.")

 

Science cannot and will not ever know what is beyond the physical universe because science deals only WITH the physical universe. Trying to use science in a discussion about personal beliefs is like trying to milk a bull. It may be fun for the bull, but you're not going to get much out of it.

 

I do not discount your beliefs on the spiritual world because it is, once again, unknowable, at least to humanity, at least currently. If you wish to believe that anything goes in the spiritual world, and there are ghosts, goblins, unicorns and purple cotton-candy cross-dressing bunnies named "Steve", who am I to say you're wrong?

 

You'll notice...I have not said anybody was wrong about anything in this thread, and have gone to lengths to state that these are BELIEFS, not FACTS.

 

Why, then, do you discount my personal beliefs as "discounting the unknown", when neither of us knows either way?