JP the mint does it again

[spider9698]

You've hit the nail on the head

[Red Hook]

Tell it Brother Man, Tell it!

[sterlingcomics]

Excellent post! I was wondering why the Spidey auction had the same keyboard spam in the title as the FF 1....

[drbanner]

Is this a previous Heritage book? I don't understand how JP, MW, or some of the other BSD's can expect to flip a book they purchase at one of the high-profile auctions, where they're the one that outbid all the other BSD's for the book in the first place!?!?

[qualitycomix]

It will get pulled again.

 

Exactly. His story in the listing is so unbelievable as to be insulting. Does he really think comic collectors are that stupid? Well, of course he does...but you should have known that already if you've been a JP-watcher over the years.

 

"Last week ebay removed my copy of a very important book due to a text infraction. It seems that since I mentioned other superheros while writing about the history of this book, I was guilty of spamming."

 

It's obvious that it was pulled because someone, probably one of his pals and not even a coinee, reported the "pgcs" and "ngc" keyword spamming to get the listing pulled, either because the whole listing was just for publicity or because JP felt it would have looked bad if the book had, like all his other books, ended unsold too far below the reserve. This "no reserve" listing is a complete fantasy. It will only stay up at no reserve if the bids get high enough or JP gets indications that the final price will meet his targeted amount (or makes arrangements with a fellow dealer or customer to backstop him regardless of the closing price on eBay). Otherwise, he'll have one of his buddies pull the same keyword spamming trick and get the listing pulled.

 

Why do I say that? Because he simply can't afford to see this auction end at a "low" (to him) price. If his Spidey #1 CGC 9.6 ended at, say, $75,000 (just an example), suddenly his FF #1 CGC 9.4 doesn't look like a $150,000 book anymore (not that it did to anybody else). People's perception of the HG CGC SA Marvel keys market will be impacted and so will his inventory value and potential future profits. Of course, it won't end at $75K because even if there aren't any collectors presently looking to pay that amount, the dealers & BSDs will step up to help their buddy out and also to "protect" their own inventory/collection values and franchises. Josh will be there for sure, maybe Geppi will throw a few bids, etc. You should know the drill by now. Nobody gets a deal from JP, no reserve or not.

 

Before the BSD-worshippers (a.k.a. the "Star Fers" - you know who you are, the sycophants who kiss BSD tail like teenage girls longing for the latest boy band idol) start pouncing all over me, know this - look back over my posts. I don't engage or take stock in the vast majority of conspiracy theories out there about the BSDs and CGC. However, what I'm saying here is nothing that other collectors haven't told me and hasn't come up as a topic of conversation at conventions. Not to mention, anyone who has watched even a handful of JP's auctions and glanced at his website once or twice, should have figured out the guy's modus operandi by now. Individuals even as disparate as Clobberintime and H**mer have also posted here about JP's attempts to alter people's perceptions of these HG books to inflate their values to make them attractive to moneyed coinees. Letting any of these books sell at unattractive values is NOT part of that plan.

 

Just to repeat: I'm not saying the listing will definitely be pulled or that the book won't fetch good money. However, there's no way it will stay up at no reserve unless JP has ensured himself, regardless of the closing eBay price, of the minimum (high) price he is looking for. He's already given himself the same potential out as the FF #1 with the keyword spamming.

 

Gene

 

I think you may be off base here. There will definitely be bids by the high grade dealers/collectors as they are usually the only ones who can afford to spend what some spend on their house. I know of at least one instance where JP purchased "something" (I won't go into details) and then put it up on Heritage at no reserve and took a 20K hit. It does happen. $20,000 doesn't mean as much to him as it does to us. He doesn't even deal with books that are less than 5K, whereas a 5K book would be one of the crown jewels of my collection, I don't know about you? Some of the other points you make are definitely valid ones.

[delekkerste]

I know of at least one instance where JP purchased "something" (I won't go into details) and then put it up on Heritage at no reserve and took a 20K hit. It does happen.

 

Well, unless you provide details (book, prices, timing, etc.) I can't really say much about that particular case. I will say, however, that an ASM #1 CGC 9.6 or FF #1 CGC 9.4 are both too high profile books for him to let "fail" (i.e., to let sell at a price many collectors would feel is low), particularly in the current frenzied market environment. Not with prices on some of these high-end books threatening to establish themselves firmly over the $100K mark for good and when he is so close to being able to rope in some of the big fish outside of the comics world who have money (e.g., BSD coinees). It has nothing to do with whether or not he can take a $20K loss on any one particular item.

 

Gene

[tth2]

Is this a previous Heritage book? I don't understand how JP, MW, or some of the other BSD's can expect to flip a book they purchase at one of the high-profile auctions, where they're the one that outbid all the other BSD's for the book in the first place!?!?

 

I think this is the one that some doctor or dentist (no, not THE dentist) unloaded at a big loss on Heritage last year. Whether JP was the purchaser at Heritage, or whether he got it in a further sale, I don't know. But given how much prices have moved for high grade keys since last year, I can definitely see it going for a higher price now compared to its Heritage sale price. For some reason, there is some big money playing in the market that apparently was not around a year ago.

[Calamerica]

I can definitely see it going for a higher price now compared to its Heritage sale price. For some reason, there is some big money playing in the market that apparently was not around a year ago.

 

Not entirely true....there has been some large transactions on eBay and private sales as well. None of us can possibly keep track of all of them as the Comics is an unregulated market, thus no "real" accurate trail of transactions. An Estate Sale in Anaheim 2 years ago had some high-grade Golden Age comics and sold for 250,000.00. I do not know who the buyer was( Buyer wished to be anonymous) but the sale was reported in the Orange County Register.

 

 

CAL

[FlyingDonut]

Please. Let us not be stupid here. I'm quite sure that all of the bids on this book will be on the up and up, and there will be no legitimate bidders bidding on this book with, shall we say, no intention to actually pay for it if they win.

[Aman619]

I think you guys over estimate the "outside money" coming into comics. As far As I have seen the total $$$s spent on comics from the coinees was spent by Parrino himself. He came along seeking to have his crowd follow him. But all he got for his trouble was a lot of HG commons GA books (including lots of MHs) that he now wants way too much for. IMO, he had pretty poor advisors telling him what to buy back then and is trying his best to make the best of his "investments". He sought to lead a rich movement of funds into our little comics world and no one followed!!

 

As for the conspiracy element...are dealers and BSDs working together to keep prices from falling due to a low/disastrous no-reserve auction result here and there??? Sure. Why not? Name one industry or collectibles field that doesnt do the same. It sounds "criminal"... but it's commonplace behaviour. Hey, If you owned these big ticket books, wouldnt you take similar steps (like bidding up a key book like the FF#1) so the next guy paid more than you did?? You'd help out to keep the prices high too. Take comfort that if these comics are NOT really worth this much, the conspirators can only hold the dam for so long before the game falls apart....

 

and do you guys really think $100K is that far-fetched a price for one of the handful of the best copies of the Silver Age's top comics?? I dont. Im surprised at how quickly it has happened....and perhaps prices are a tad overheated of late, but the concept of a six-figure SA comic (AF15 and FF#1 and maybe ASM#1) doesnt scare me

 

 

One more thing. where is it written that a seller must take a loss on a book (by letting his auction close too low) if he chooses not to, and is willing to accept whatever consequences the market may throw at him (like this thread)? Especially if he can afford to hold on to the book and wait for more favorable results later on???

[drbanner]

Ok, this is the copy that sold in the Heritage Auction last March for $92k...let's see what happens!!

[Aman619]

Its up to 83K right now....

I dont think he'll let it go under 120K

and If I were him, Id keep it at that price...unless he is doing more than testing the waters with these auctions.

[AtomicPaul-migration]

Ebay is not the best place to test the waters for books of this price and importance.

[Aman619]

where do you suggest? Heritage, his own website, Comiclink?

phone call to Geppi, Doug or Brulato??

[AtomicPaul-migration]

Exactly. His story in the listing is so unbelievable as to be insulting. Does he really think comic collectors are that stupid? Well, of course he does...but you should have known that already if you've been a JP-watcher over the years.

 

"Last week ebay removed my copy of a very important book due to a text infraction. It seems that since I mentioned other superheros while writing about the history of this book, I was guilty of spamming."

 

It's obvious that it was pulled because someone, probably one of his pals and not even a coinee, reported the "pgcs" and "ngc" keyword spamming to get the listing pulled, either because the whole listing was just for publicity or because JP felt it would have looked bad if the book had, like all his other books, ended unsold too far below the reserve. This "no reserve" listing is a complete fantasy. It will only stay up at no reserve if the bids get high enough or JP gets indications that the final price will meet his targeted amount (or makes arrangements with a fellow dealer or customer to backstop him regardless of the closing price on eBay). Otherwise, he'll have one of his buddies pull the same keyword spamming trick and get the listing pulled.

 

Why do I say that? Because he simply can't afford to see this auction end at a "low" (to him) price. If his Spidey #1 CGC 9.6 ended at, say, $75,000 (just an example), suddenly his FF #1 CGC 9.4 doesn't look like a $150,000 book anymore (not that it did to anybody else). People's perception of the HG CGC SA Marvel keys market will be impacted and so will his inventory value and potential future profits. Of course, it won't end at $75K because even if there aren't any collectors presently looking to pay that amount, the dealers & BSDs will step up to help their buddy out and also to "protect" their own inventory/collection values and franchises. Josh will be there for sure, maybe Geppi will throw a few bids, etc. You should know the drill by now. Nobody gets a deal from JP, no reserve or not.

 

Before the BSD-worshippers (a.k.a. the "Star Fers" - you know who you are, the sycophants who kiss BSD tail like teenage girls longing for the latest boy band idol) start pouncing all over me, know this - look back over my posts. I don't engage or take stock in the vast majority of conspiracy theories out there about the BSDs and CGC. However, what I'm saying here is nothing that other collectors haven't told me and hasn't come up as a topic of conversation at conventions. Not to mention, anyone who has watched even a handful of JP's auctions and glanced at his website once or twice, should have figured out the guy's modus operandi by now. Individuals even as disparate as Clobberintime and H**mer have also posted here about JP's attempts to alter people's perceptions of these HG books to inflate their values to make them attractive to moneyed coinees. Letting any of these books sell at unattractive values is NOT part of that plan.

 

Just to repeat: I'm not saying the listing will definitely be pulled or that the book won't fetch good money. However, there's no way it will stay up at no reserve unless JP has ensured himself, regardless of the closing eBay price, of the minimum (high) price he is looking for. He's already given himself the same potential out as the FF #1 with the keyword spamming.

 

 

Very true. And while Ebay may not be the best place to sell elite high grade books, have comics that have sold on Heritage for seemingly incredible premiums fared much better?

Ebay is a "Flipper's Paradise". You see certain books that appear very restless (flipped over and over) and others of high grade/high value that auction once and disappear off the market. Ebay is the friendliest auction site to re-sells. The final value fee is very low, in the 2% to 3% range (as the item increases in incremental value, the percentage declines) and the listing fees very nominal. This makes speculating on an item, winning a book with the idea of flipping it short term, very practical and viable.

On Heritage auctions, there isn't a listing fee but the vigorish for buyer and seller can go as high as a whopping 20%!!! With Heritage stepping on each sale for between 30 and 40% of the final auction price, using Heritage as a site for flipping, for short term investing will most likely be a losing proposition, even if the hobby market prices are increasing by as much as 100%!!

 

And yet, when we look at the Heritage past auction results, we see many instances of the same comic re-auctioning sometimes 2 to 4 times over the period of a year or more!! Comics offered on Heritage seem to flip with regularity, repeatedly, and that includes books that have received higher grades through re-submissions (some that have been discussed on this Forum), and others that have remained the same grade throughtout their long history in the Heritage Auctions.

 

The point I'm making is that even though I myself feel that Ebay is not the best place, by all appearances, to offer a high ticket item, it still may be the best reflective market of all the auction venues.

[jbud73]

I think the point Gene is trying to make is that this sale should not be taken as a market indicator as JP has indoubtable insulated the sale. Yes I believe that that is his perogative as well. If indeed 120K is the magicnumber, in todays economy, a 30K profit for 90K investment over the course of 1 year is mind boggling. Anyhow I guess I will scurry back down to my $25 - $200 books now thankyou very much.

[Aces]

Please. Let us not be stupid here. I'm quite sure that all of the bids on this book will be on the up and up, and there will be no legitimate bidders bidding on this book with, shall we say, no intention to actually pay for it if they win.

 

If my $10,750 bid had won, I'd have sold my car and everything else I own to get it.

[blowout]

I think you guys over estimate the "outside money" coming into comics.

 

Why would coinees even be interested in dropping huge sums of money on comic books unless a financial 'adviser' told them it was a good idea? After all we are talking about a market that is primarily fueled by nostalgia.

[tth2]

where do you suggest? Heritage, his own website, Comiclink?

phone call to Geppi, Doug or Brulato??

 

Doug and Brulato already have 9.6 or better copies of ASM 1. Does Geppi even really collect silver? Given that a AF 15 sold for $122k on Comiclink, that certainly seems to be the site of the moment for moving high grade big ticket Marvels.

[tth2]

Ok, this is the copy that sold in the Heritage Auction last March for $92k...let's see what happens!!

 

Yeah, and it was purchased for approx $150k. Ouch!!!

 

I'm sure JP can get more than $92k for this book.