The Hobby.....say a 5 year timeline.

[SuperBird]

While they might not be completely extinct, I would pretty much proclaim them dead as collectibles for all intents and purposes.

 

 

I'd say that's a pretty good measure of a "thing of the past." And that took what, 10 years from the peak? I wonder what vinyl aficionados were saying back then to the naysayers.

 

I think using vinyl records as a comparison to comics doesn't work so well. Vinyl didn't die off due to rising prices and decreasing customers, it was surpassed by cassette and then CD music. The music industry customers didn't dwindle the way comics customers have been.

 

But that's why it's perfect. Printed monthly comics are being surpassed by movies, games, etc. in the same way as records were surpassed. Super hero (and other "graphic") stories are still being told- they are just told through different media. There are still millions of people who love super heroes. That's not the issue.

[bronze_rules]

While they might not be completely extinct, I would pretty much proclaim them dead as collectibles for all intents and purposes.

 

 

I'd say that's a pretty good measure of a "thing of the past." And that took what, 10 years from the peak? I wonder what vinyl aficionados were saying back then to the naysayers.

 

I think using vinyl records as a comparison to comics doesn't work so well. Vinyl didn't die off due to rising prices and decreasing customers, it was surpassed by cassette and then CD music. The music industry customers didn't dwindle the way comics customers have been.

 

But that's why it's perfect. Printed monthly comics are being surpassed by movies, games, etc. in the same way as records were surpassed. Super hero (and other "graphic") stories are still being told- they are just told through different media. There are still millions of people who love super heroes. That's not the issue.

 

Exactly. I don't think anyone is saying comic book storytelling is necessarily going to die off, it's the medium that evolves-- precisely as in the case of vinyl->tape->CD->digital.

 

If you accept this logical evolution for comic book storytelling, it would be fair to proclaim (I think) that comic books as our generation perceived them would, for all intents and purposes, be dead. Given that the paper based medium disappears, what happens to the value of collectible paper comic books; do they rise? My hypothesis is they go down. Similar to the argument about baseball cards losing value as the newer generations have not grown up holding and collecting them. Baseball, like music, however, still prospers.

 

What I've observed in this generation, is kids downloading comic books on the internet.

From the POV of publishers and comic shops, that may look like a dwindling demand, but how do you truly gauge such a metric (particularly, when most are probably pirated)? ...As an aside, I also notice a lot of kids gravitated to manga the last few years (online and off)... do those even qualify as comics?

 

It will be interesting to see how the online publishers evolve. If anyone could capture a model like apple, they'd be raking in the dough.

[SuperBird]

 

It will be interesting to see how the online publishers evolve. If anyone could capture a model like apple, they'd be raking in the dough.

 

That model is already available to people, as you can buys and sell digital magazines and comics in the apple store. The problem IMHO is the price. They still want $2.99 or whatever for a single comic. If you could get a graphic novel for that price, I think it would be a good deal...

[bronze_rules]

 

It will be interesting to see how the online publishers evolve. If anyone could capture a model like apple, they'd be raking in the dough.

 

That model is already available to people, as you can buys and sell digital magazines and comics in the apple store. The problem IMHO is the price. They still want $2.99 or whatever for a single comic. If you could get a graphic novel for that price, I think it would be a good deal...

 

I didn't know they were distributing comics (shows how up to date I am), but makes perfect sense. I suppose they'll have to somehow curtail pirating to get high volume at those costs.

 

[500Club]

While they might not be completely extinct, I would pretty much proclaim them dead as collectibles for all intents and purposes.

 

 

I'd say that's a pretty good measure of a "thing of the past." And that took what, 10 years from the peak? I wonder what vinyl aficionados were saying back then to the naysayers.

 

I think using vinyl records as a comparison to comics doesn't work so well. Vinyl didn't die off due to rising prices and decreasing customers, it was surpassed by cassette and then CD music. The music industry customers didn't dwindle the way comics customers have been.

 

But that's why it's perfect. Printed monthly comics are being surpassed by movies, games, etc. in the same way as records were surpassed. Super hero (and other "graphic") stories are still being told- they are just told through different media. There are still millions of people who love super heroes. That's not the issue.

 

Good points. I don't think the translation is quite the same, though. In the music example, you are getting the EXACT SAME product, as vinyl goes to cassette, to CD, to mp3 etc. In the comic example, movies, games, TV shows etc are NOT the same product. They are completely different mediums. As comic sales have declined over the past two decades, customers have not been shifting to the SAME product, aside from tpb and the developing digital format.

 

The vinyl records analogy does fit perfectly with the progression to digital comic delivery, though.

[dupont2005]

I don't think they are comparable at all. People still listen to music, they do not read comics. I think a whole lot more than digital distribution has to happen to make comics have broad appeal again. They are a VERY niche form of entertainment these days. Music in general is not. Also, as far as music goes it doesn't matter if you buy CD's from Best Buy, downloads from iTunes, or new vinyl releases, the money still rolls in. Same should be said for comics too. Cassette tapes dying off and being replaced with CD's did not effect the artists and the labels one bit. Comic books as a whole dying off and being replaced with movies and cartoons would have a huge effect.

 

I think just one reason why super hero movies do well with people that would never, ever pick up a comic featuring the same character is those comics have gotten ridiculous with continuity, crossovers, and retcons. The movies are like OGN's, which I think do better with broad audiences anyway. We all know who Batman is by now, no reason to rehash the origin and waste precious pages or minutes on screen. Just tell a good self contained story and end it. Comic publishers just can't do that anymore and it drives away potential buyers. I know for a fact that I am one of them.

[mpt6974]

Comic publishers can do that, just not Marvel or DC

 

There's a lot of mini-series out these days, which I enjoy. Most are made by Image though.

[500Club]

I don't think they are comparable at all.

Then we agree...

[dupont2005]

Comic publishers can do that, just not Marvel or DC

 

There's a lot of mini-series out these days, which I enjoy. Most are made by Image though.

Yeah, before I quit comics for about a decade I did read super hero comics alongside my snooty slice of life alternative comics

 

When I got back into comics the Joker HC was one of the first things I read and I liked it but no way would I get into collecting ASM or TEC again, just too much involvement to get the story. I started reading the Noir minis and liked them but by that point I had already had minimal interest in super heroes and they just came out with too many minis for me to bother with so I figured I would rather hunt down Coppers than keep up with them. I think isolating the titles a little more would do wonders with bringing in new readers.

[conditionfreak]

Paper products have been staring the death threat in the face for a very long time. Comic books included. They are still here. Books, magazines and comic books all. Despite claims of running out of trees, global warming, their impact on the impressionable young childs mind, liberal chants of the red, white and blue being old and worn out, and last but not least. The digital and electronic age of so-called progress.

 

The problem is, that in forty years, I won't be able, and won't care, that I was right. You won't remember or care either, that you were wrong.

 

Think of it as the difference between a hologram woman and a real woman.

 

No comparison.

 

(headslap for JC) (he likes those)

 

[500Club]

Just visit a "Borders" book store and see the light. I went to one for some Christmas presents and they had six cashiers and six long lines.

 

This is a perfect example actually, because Borders is going bankrupt.

 

The stock has gone from $26 at the start of 2005 to .84c at today's close. The chart looks like a black diamond ski run.

 

The other sobering factor is the size of the magazine displays in bookstores and convenience stores. My 7-11 has a three rack, 6ft wide display. This is down from two 10 rack, double level display racks 10 years ago.

[conditionfreak]

Yea. I bought AIG when it fell to $1.10 (if memory serves me correctly).

 

Now it is $41.26. Plus, they just issued buyback warrants valued at $15.99 each, that were free!

 

They were thought to be dead in the water when I bought.

 

There are others like it.

 

Time will tell, about comics and Borders.

 

Have to go. I'm going to buy some Borders stock right now if it is .84c.

[bronze_rules]

Yea. I bought AIG when it fell to $1.10 (if me mory serves me correctly).

 

Now it is $41.26. Plus, they just issued buyback warrants valued at $15.99 each, that were free!

 

They were thought to be dead in the water when I bought.

 

There are others like it.

 

Time will tell, about comics and Borders.

 

Have to go. I'm going to buy some Borders stock right now if it is .84c.

 

Had they not had a massive cash infusion a few days ago, they were scheduled to go bankrupt. Hard for me to believe, but these booksellers are really hurting. I love Borders and think it's a fantastic store; I would be very sad if they were to go out.

That's my weekly hangout spot.

 

Could be a good long term hold at that price; I still see folks buying books and

service is great (lots of upside). I don't think they'll get quite the bailout package as AIG did, however.

 

I thought I read somewhere that comics distributors would no longer ship comics to them either.

[500Club]

Yea. I bought AIG when it fell to $1.10 (if memory serves me correctly).

 

Now it is $41.26. Plus, they just issued buyback warrants valued at $15.99 each, that were free!

 

They were thought to be dead in the water when I bought.

 

There are others like it.

 

Time will tell, about comics and Borders.

 

Have to go. I'm going to buy some Borders stock right now if it is .84c.

 

Good luck.

 

I doubt the government will decide Borders is 'too big to fail'.

[500Club]

As a follow up, I'll add that that was a winning gamble, not a savvy investment. Without government intervention, they were done.

[conditionfreak]

IMO, nothing is too big to fail. There is a Ford new car dealership in my town that went broke. Well, they went broke if left on their own. However, under the Stimulus measure, they received one million dollars to keep them afloat. I know this because the owner is a friend of mine.

 

They are much much smaller than Borders.

 

But I get your point, which is well taken. However, if Borders "goes". It doesn't mean that books "go".

 

I'll take a chance with some Borders stock. I also took a chance with some GM stock and they were too big to fail also, and they received a whole lot of money from the government. The stock still ain't worth krap.

 

My point is: No one knows. People predict and gamble, and some lose and some win. Some are right and some are wrong.

 

P.S. Where are those flying cars that they predicted when I was a kid, that would be common place in the year 2000?

[500Club]

Nah, books won't go. I can see Amazon grabbing a huge market share, though. Most of their books are 30-50% off - tough for a brick/mortar retailer to compete. Borders will certainly face diminishing returns over the coming years. I don't see how this won't come to pass....

 

GM? I hope you didn't buy stock. You'd have lost all your money. They went bankrupt, were reorganized, and had an IPO at $32 in late Nov.

[conditionfreak]

Yea I bought GM. Bad move for sure. But I only bought 75 shares. Not a big deal. Just always wanted to own some of it so I bought it. It was a gamble for sure. I'm a gambler. Lost most of that. It is still at like 80 something cents a share.

[500Club]

Yea I bought GM. Bad move for sure. But I only bought 75 shares. Not a big deal. Just always wanted to own some of it so I bought it. It was a gamble for sure. I'm a gambler. Lost most of that. It is still at like 80 something cents a share.

 

No, it's gone. They went bankrupt. They had a new IPO in November, after emerging from bankruptcy. Shareholders of record got nothing back when the stock went under in '08.

 

Interestingly, the new shares/IPO, which debuted at $32, are at $38 now, as GM is running a much leaner operation, and seeing increasing sales in China.

[conditionfreak]

Yes, you are correct. That old GM stock is now known as MTLQQ-OTC (MOTORS LIQ CO COM), and is listed at .87 cents a share. With 75 shares, I have just enough to buy two comic books.

 

Begs the question as to how lean and mean GM would have been, without a bailout. I can not imagine they would have locked the doors. Almost impossible I think.