The Official "Hey, these scores need fixing" thread (Revised)

[mschmidt]

I have to agree with Nick on this one.

 

Primer #6 is by far the toughest book to find in NM-MT.

 

Anyone that collects Copper Age books knows how hard it is to find one in NM-MT

 

(I don't think my brother can find a NM-MT copy )

 

I think it should get a least 600 to 650 points in CGC 9.8

 

Which would give it more points than a Sandman #1 & #8, a Crow #1, a Primer #5, a San Diego Comic Con Comics #2 and a Miracleman #15 - all books that are far more valuable, desirable and important than this one.

 

We've had this discussion numerous times before - basing a registry score solely on the FMV of a book is silly. But basing it solely on "oh, there are no CGC 9.8 copies of this book" is insane.

 

This book is a non-key that features the 1st appearance of a flash-in-the-pan 80s character and the 1st published work of a workhorse creator who isn't A-list by any stretch of the imagination (and who isn't even remembered for the work he did on this character, but rather for the run he had on Batman).

 

The only thing this book has going for it is that it's relatively hard to find in 9.8 ... but so is every other non-key indie from that era.

 

And, no, that doesn't make it "the toughest book" to find in 9.8 - it just makes it another one of those $1 box copper indies where people have zero incentive to dig through boxes looking for a 9.8 copy.

 

If there was any sort of demand for slabbed copies of this book - demand enough to warrant 600 registry points - the CGC census would fill up faster than you could say "if my brother really wants a 9.8 copy of this, a WTB thread offering $200 for one should fulfill that need post-haste".

[Bosco685]

Since this is getting so fixated on one book, distracting from any other points adjustments, I'm going to start a thread to work this out if that is okay.

 

I don't want to hog the entire thread for one book when I am sure there are many other books to be discussed (with maybe less pushback ).

[kdoginohio]

[greggy]

Gemma, could you advise about the status of the uploads for the complete Detective and Batman sets?

 

The scores do not appear to have been updated.

 

Thanks--Greg

[Gemma]

I have been advised that they should be updated early next week by the web development team. I will keep you posted with any further updates.

[Gemma]

Sorry, I have been corrected....they will be STARTING next week and should have it done by the following week....

[FullOnHorror]

Hi Gemma,

 

Could you please have the scores changed for the following sets.

 

Grimm Fairy Tales

Grimm Fairy Tales (Complete)

Grimm Fairy Tales: Return to Wonderland

 

All the 9.8 universal books that are entered into these sets only receive a score of 40 points. The early GFT books at 9.8 usually sell between $100-$200 on Ebay and I don't think they should receive the same score as some of the newer issues in 9.8 which usually sell for between $20-$35.

 

The variants also receive a score of only 40 points. For example I don't see why the GFT #50 Blue Gryphon Nude Foil Edition which is limited to 50 copies and that Zenescope sold raw for $150 each receives the same score as the $3.99 GFT #50 covers.

 

If you could update the scores for these sets it would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks!

[AmazingSaul]

Hi Gemma,

 

Can you fix the score on Detective comics 69? A 6.0 just sold at Heritage Auctions for double overstreet price this book is rare and a desired Golden age Jerry Robinson Joker cover. Thanks Gemma

[Doc Joe]

I was looking at some of the Batman titles and I think they are quite under-scored at times.

 

While all of the Neal Adams covers are impressive there are several that merit special attention as they are first appearances or the first appearance of a character on the cover etc, these are major characters that continue in comics, tv and movies.

 

in particular issues

 

210 - first catwoman cover

227 - tech cover swipe

232 - first appearance Ra's al-Ghul

234 - first two face

244 - Ra's al-Ghul appearance

251 - joker cover, re-established the joker as a serious character

 

current scores in 9.8:

issue score

210 440 (same as comics above and below it) - current price for 9.8 5000$ (!) census = 1

227 2600 (increased from surrounding comics) , current price $13,000 census 1

232 1300 (increased from surrounding comics), current price range $1700-3000 census 15

234 1600 (increased from surrounding comics) , current price $5000+, census 4

244 520 (same as others around it) current price 1000-$1500, census 4

251 760 (increased from surrounding comics), price $3000-4000 census 8

 

these are insanely low census numbers for classic covers and highly sought after books, some are easier to come by than others clearly, but given how desirable they are I am amazed at how low the numbers are in high grade.

 

In Summary

I think 210 should be dramatically increased in value to 2000 +

I think 227 could go up to even 4000

I think 232 is close but could go up even by 1000

I think 234 should go up a lot more 3000 range

I think 244 should go up 3X

I think 251 should go up 3X

 

Thanks so much for your consideration of this,

 

I also think the Neal adams covers in general should have a slight bump over the other covers from the time, but the ones above are the 'special ones' that really are key

 

Neal Adams Batman covers: numbers:

203, 210, 217, 219, 220, 221, 222, 224, 225, 226, 227, 229, 230,231, 232, 234, 235, 236, 237, 238, 239, 240, 241, 243, 244, 245, 246, 251, 255

 

I appreciate your responsiveness to collectors concerns

 

thanks

 

Joe

[dover]

I was looking at some of the Batman titles and I think they are quite under-scored at times.

 

While all of the Neal Adams covers are impressive there are several that merit special attention as they are first appearances or the first appearance of a character on the cover etc, these are major characters that continue in comics, tv and movies.

 

in particular issues

 

210 - first catwoman cover

227 - tech cover swipe

232 - first appearance Ra's al-Ghul

234 - first two face

244 - Ra's al-Ghul appearance

251 - joker cover, re-established the joker as a serious character

 

current scores in 9.8:

issue score

210 440 (same as comics above and below it) - current price for 9.8 5000$ (!) census = 1

227 2600 (increased from surrounding comics) , current price $13,000 census 1

232 1300 (increased from surrounding comics), current price range $1700-3000 census 15

234 1600 (increased from surrounding comics) , current price $5000+, census 4

244 520 (same as others around it) current price 1000-$1500, census 4

251 760 (increased from surrounding comics), price $3000-4000 census 8

 

these are insanely low census numbers for classic covers and highly sought after books, some are easier to come by than others clearly, but given how desirable they are I am amazed at how low the numbers are in high grade.

 

In Summary

I think 210 should be dramatically increased in value to 2000 +

I think 227 could go up to even 4000

I think 232 is close but could go up even by 1000

I think 234 should go up a lot more 3000 range

I think 244 should go up 3X

I think 251 should go up 3X

 

Thanks so much for your consideration of this,

 

I also think the Neal adams covers in general should have a slight bump over the other covers from the time, but the ones above are the 'special ones' that really are key

 

Neal Adams Batman covers: numbers:

203, 210, 217, 219, 220, 221, 222, 224, 225, 226, 227, 229, 230,231, 232, 234, 235, 236, 237, 238, 239, 240, 241, 243, 244, 245, 246, 251, 255

 

I appreciate your responsiveness to collectors concerns

 

thanks

 

Joe

 

I could argue 219 and 221 are hard to get in high grade and fantastic covers as well. You should add points / weight to books with Adams covers that also has interior art as they are more sought than just a cover.

 

Add Batman 200 to the Adams cover bump.

 

There is no doubt they should have a premium to books around them. His covers are obviously sought after than the main stream cover.

[Gemma]

Hi Gemma,

 

Could you please have the scores changed for the following sets.

 

Grimm Fairy Tales

Grimm Fairy Tales (Complete)

Grimm Fairy Tales: Return to Wonderland

 

All the 9.8 universal books that are entered into these sets only receive a score of 40 points. The early GFT books at 9.8 usually sell between $100-$200 on Ebay and I don't think they should receive the same score as some of the newer issues in 9.8 which usually sell for between $20-$35.

 

The variants also receive a score of only 40 points. For example I don't see why the GFT #50 Blue Gryphon Nude Foil Edition which is limited to 50 copies and that Zenescope sold raw for $150 each receives the same score as the $3.99 GFT #50 covers.

 

If you could update the scores for these sets it would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks!

 

The main problem that I think will happen if I adjust this set is that a number of the issues will go down in score, while only a few will go up, which may upset a large number of collectors for this title. I had set the scores higher than most moderns, but not adjusted for variants due to the large volume of variants in this series. If I am to adjust it now it would be in the light that it would be left alone for some time afterwards...as we don't have the resources to adjust each set to the market, so my concern is that it will not be accurate in the near future.

I'm leaving your request (and my response) posted for a little while longer before I make any changes as I know there are other collectors who may want to voice their opinion on this topic. However if there are no objections then I will work on adjusting it and will keep you posted once it is complete.

[sl4ppy]

The Vengeance of the Moon Knight #1 Virgin Edition probably needs its score adjusted a bit.

 

http://comics.www.collectors-society.com/registry/comics/SlotScoreDetail.aspx?SlotID=124819

 

Only 300 of this book were ever printed, none have ever come up for sale on Ebay or auction sites, none are in the census, and most comic databases don't even know it exists.

 

I dare say it probably should be the highest point value book in the entire series by a significant margin...

[BEACHCOMBER]

Green lantern (2005)..compared to other modern sets..regular issues should get 40, as well as variants, with second print receiving 25...this would be in line with other current sets.

 

Presently all issues only receive 25 points

 

Thanks,

[sufunk]

No book, and i mean NO book needs their score adjusted more than the King of SA, Amazing Fantasy 15 (thumbs u

 

The values are not even 1/3 and closer to 1/4th the value of what you can buy a copy of AF15 in higher grades. A 7.5 is 13,750 points. No possible way that you are finding one for less than $40k and really closer to 50k.

 

This was true before the $1.1 million sale of a 9.6 and even more true now (thumbs u

[Doc Joe]

The last af 15 cgc 7.5 on gpa this year went for 32k and didnt your 7.5 go for 28k on clink

 

I don't really follow them closely. But they are not hard to find, every auction has 2-3 copies.

 

Just it seems to be a combination of popularity, scarcity, relevance and cost that go into the "points". 971 blue label slabbed copies.

 

I personally would not feel an AF 15 would be worth 50,000 points in cgc 7.5 (I know your probably not suggesting that), maybe a bit of a boost

 

Would love to know what others think

 

[Doc Joe]

On the other hand looking at the popularity of wwbn 32, I think that issue could do with a little boost in points as well

 

Prices for 9.6 have been between 1500 to 3000, with one falling to 1200 this year, 33 graded

 

Only 3 in 9.8, the clink one sold for $3900

 

Scores of 600 for 9.6, and 980 for 9.8 could probably do with a bump

 

And for the 9.4 Which get 360 points

 

Joe

[sl4ppy]

On the other hand looking at the popularity of wwbn 32, I think that issue could do with a little boost in points as well

 

Prices for 9.6 have been between 1500 to 3000, with one falling to 1200 this year, 33 graded

 

Only 3 in 9.8, the clink one sold for $3900

 

Scores of 600 for 9.6, and 980 for 9.8 could probably do with a bump

 

And for the 9.4 Which get 360 points

 

Joe

 

TBH, prices have been falling like a rock over the last 2 years; I bought that $1200 book, and one before it for $1300 which 3 years ago would have been almost $3k.... Not sure they need much of a bump.

[sufunk]

The last af 15 cgc 7.5 on gpa this year went for 32k and didnt your 7.5 go for 28k on clink

 

I don't really follow them closely. But they are not hard to find, every auction has 2-3 copies.

 

Just it seems to be a combination of popularity, scarcity, relevance and cost that go into the "points". 971 blue label slabbed copies.

 

I personally would not feel an AF 15 would be worth 50,000 points in cgc 7.5 (I know your probably not suggesting that), maybe a bit of a boost

 

Would love to know what others think

 

Mine was a 7.0 not a 7.5 that went for a little over 28k which most people would say is low even before the boost theyve been getting with the 9.6 sale. It only counts in the registry as 11,500 points though, well under half the going rate.

 

Even though its a fairly common book, its pretty much without question the king of all SA books so like i said, it just seems to be given way too few points in the registry

[Doc Joe]

The last af 15 cgc 7.5 on gpa this year went for 32k and didnt your 7.5 go for 28k on clink

 

I don't really follow them closely. But they are not hard to find, every auction has 2-3 copies.

 

Just it seems to be a combination of popularity, scarcity, relevance and cost that go into the "points". 971 blue label slabbed copies.

 

I personally would not feel an AF 15 would be worth 50,000 points in cgc 7.5 (I know your probably not suggesting that), maybe a bit of a boost

 

Would love to know what others think

 

Mine was a 7.0 not a 7.5 that went for a little over 28k which most people would say is low even before the boost theyve been getting with the 9.6 sale. It only counts in the registry as 11,500 points though, well under half the going rate.

 

Even though its a fairly common book, its pretty much without question the king of all SA books so like i said, it just seems to be given way too few points in the registry

 

sorry my bad, I thought it was 7.5 !

 

you are of course right it is certainly in the royal family of silver age books (king of Marvel at least)

 

 

[Doc Joe]

On the other hand looking at the popularity of wwbn 32, I think that issue could do with a little boost in points as well

 

Prices for 9.6 have been between 1500 to 3000, with one falling to 1200 this year, 33 graded

 

Only 3 in 9.8, the clink one sold for $3900

 

Scores of 600 for 9.6, and 980 for 9.8 could probably do with a bump

 

And for the 9.4 Which get 360 points

 

Joe

 

TBH, prices have been falling like a rock over the last 2 years; I bought that $1200 book, and one before it for $1300 which 3 years ago would have been almost $3k.... Not sure they need much of a bump.

 

agreed, not much, but still a bump

?900-1000 for 9.6

?1800-2000 for 9.8