The Official "Hey, these scores need fixing" thread (Revised)

[Bomber-Bob]

Hey Michael. You raise a very good point that I am acknowledging.

The Tip Top Comics was relatively inexpensive and I don't expect 500 points for it. It was just that 60 points seemed insulting. To save the poor book from embarassment I will probably just remove it.

[Clouded9]

Hello Gemma and boardies!

 

My request is in regards to the Hellboy (1993-1994) set:

 

I think the points on Dimepress #4 and San Diego Comic-Con Comics #2 could stand to be bumped up a bit.

 

While Next Men #21 could stand to be bumped down some points.

 

Current point standings for 9.8 are as follows:

 

Dime Press #4 - 320

SDCC Comics #2 - 280

Next Men #21 - 220

 

What I believe they should be bumped up/down to:

 

Dime Press #4 - 600 (at least)

SDCC Comics #2 - 400

Next Men #21 - 125

 

Dime Press #4 is the first international appearance of Hellboy and was limited to only 2000 copies and was available ONLY IN ITALY in May of 1993. Many people were not even aware of this book until the creator, Mike Mignola, started bringing it up in interviews around the time the first Hellboy movie came out and was proving successful. 30 or so copies graded so far and only 2 universal 9.8s and 12 universal 9.6s of the lot. This book in 9.6 or higher rarely comes to market and when it does it commands decent attention and dollars. I have seen a 9.2 go for $135, a picked up my 9.6 for $260 earlier this year with several bidders in the mix with me, and unfortunately have never seen one of the 2 9.8s on the auction block. Finding a raw mid to high grade copy in the US is nearly impossible and can still set you back over $100 easy and most raw copies available are in terrible shape thanks to the 80% black wraparound cover and the required journey overseas. This book is scarce (even in low grade), demand is much higher than supply as shown by the action when this book goes to auction., and this book has historical significance to what is now considered, after 2 big budget films, a main stream/internationally recognized character. Based on this info I believe this issue should net more points.

 

Also, to help justify my request, another copper age indy key issue Caliber Presents #1 (first appearance of The Crow) is worth 600 points at 9.8 and this book was available at a much higher print run right here in the US and there are a several copies on eBay as of now including several 9.8s. I think it's a reasonable request for Dime Press #4 to equal, if not surpass, Caliber Presents #1 in point value.

 

SDCC #2 (1st US appearance of Hellboy) could be bumped up as it was a very limited printing as well and was only available at the San Diego International Comic-con that year. It also features John Byrne, James O'Barr, and new (not re-printed) Frank Miller work in it as well. The book easily sells in the $150-$225 range for a 9.8, but rarely comes to market at 9.6 or higher.

 

Next Men 21 could stand to have its score dropped as it can be found anywhere at any grade and I have seen several 9.8 copies sell for under $100 with 9.6s selling for around $50 pretty frequently. This book is not scarce and there is much more supply than demand in the market.

 

Chime in if you think my request is or isn't merited. Maybe my perspective is skewed.

 

Thanks Gemma for your consideration and supreme registry wisdom!

[mschmidt]

My $0.02 ...

 

I think SDDC #2 should stay as is - it's a $200-250 book in 9.8, so the current 280 points value seems totally fair. Anything more just wouldn't be in tune with market value.

 

Reducing Next Men #21 a bit seems reasonable, but dropping it down to 125 points is just too low. It's a pretty consistent $150+ book in 9.8, so reducing it to 180 points would make more sense.

 

I agree with the bumping up of Dime Press #4, though :thumbsup:

[Clouded9]

My $0.02 ...

 

I think SDDC #2 should stay as is - it's a $200-250 book in 9.8, so the current 280 points value seems totally fair. Anything more just wouldn't be in tune with market value.

 

Reducing Next Men #21 a bit seems reasonable, but dropping it down to 125 points is just too low. It's a pretty consistent $150+ book in 9.8, so reducing it to 180 points would make more sense.

 

I agree with the bumping up of Dime Press #4, though :thumbsup:

 

Thanks for your input mschmidt and I'm glad for the support for the Dime Press #4 bump!

 

You make a valid point, I may have gone too low on the Next Men 21 and 170-180 seems a more reasonable score. However I still think SDCC #2 deserves to be bumped up to at least the 300-350 range as, putting the $200-$250 market value aside for the moment, the book was a low printed copy and was not nearly as easy to acquire as most other books when it was released. One could not walk into their LCS and pick up a copy of SDCC #2. I'm not fully versed in the algorithm used to determine the point values, but it's my understanding that it includes market value as well as scarcity (along with many other parameters I'm sure) to determine point value and this books limited initial availability and limited number of high CGC grade (9.6-9.8) copies justifies the bump, IMHO.

 

Again, thanks for chiming in and I hope more boardies do the same so we can get a broader consensus for Gemma to make the decision.

[Bosco685]

Glad to meet a fellow Hellboy fan.

 

Also, to help justify my request, another copper age indy key issue Caliber Presents #1 (first appearance of The Crow) is worth 600 points at 9.8 and this book was available at a much higher print run right here in the US and there are a several copies on eBay as of now including several 9.8s. I think it's a reasonable request for Dime Press #4 to equal, if not surpass, Caliber Presents #1 in point value.

 

Since I own both Crow and Hellboy sets, here is my assessment of the situaton concerning the fanzine Dime Press 4.

 

1. Dime Press 4 doesn't even fit into the same category as Caliber Presents 1. Although it is cool to own Dime Press 4 as a Hellboy fan - and it is - it is still a prototype that many used to boost their profits by posting the same "interview statement" over and over, proclaiming this book as the first appearance. Caliber Presents 1 is the real first full appearance of The Crow, and even O'Barr would tell you this. He even states this in later HC reprints of his famous series, though this was never in question as it is clear the significance of Caliber Presents 1.

 

2. The fanzine Dime Press 4 has such a twisted history of its significance to the Hellboy storyline, it has achieved a status that Mignola may not appreciate. If you don't own these books, go to your local library and check out The Art of Hellboy HC and Hellboy Library Vol. 1 HC. Guess how many times Mignola mentions Dime Press 4? I'll let you go reseach it, and then wait for your reaction and findings.

 

3. I have a feeling this book had a much higher print run than 2,000 copies, as there are a few European sellers that have a steady stream of these books in all sorts of conditions. One seller I know of has already sold 14 copies over three years. Either he is the distributor, or he has had no problem at all finding this book in the European market.

 

4. Not a knock on CGC, but when I submitted a request to CGC asking that the label be changed to "protoptype appearance" for Hellboy in Dime Press 4, unfortunately they mistakenly used a fan's personal website as a reference to decide where this book fits in. What did the fan use as a reference for Dime Press 4? The same quote used over and over by sellers to boost the final sales of this book, yet Mignola gave this book no mention in either of his hardcovers he published. Shoot - I revealed what I found to be true.

 

Check out the Art of Hellboy, and you will see the first concept drawing/painting of Hellboy from Mignola's perspective. It was a team piece when he first was considering the character, which was going to be a team adventure series (before he even thought of BPRD). And that drawing looks much more like the Hellboy we know today. But the Hellboy Library HC is fantastic in that at the back of the book, there is a one-page letter from Mignola talking about how he came to create the character Hellboy. It leads into eight pages of colored pages containing the first two full appearances of Hellboy - San Diego Comic-Con Comics 2 and the four-page pamphlet insert story leading into Seed of Destruction published in Comic Buyer's Guide #1070. Both are great Hellboy references. Unfortunately, I'm not sure CGC will grade the CBG pamphlet since it is a B&W stapled-in book

 

Dime Press 4's points should stay right where they are at, in my opinion. The hype machine surrounding this book have blown its value way out of proportion. San Diego Comic-Con Comics 2 should be boosted higher as even in both Mignola HCs, he makes it clear this is where he feels the character finally hit the market.

 

No offense meant to your request. There has been a few discussions about Dime Press 4 based on the market misperception. Check out those two Mignola HCs and tell me what you think.

[Ghost Town]

Hi Gemma:

 

I noticed the points for many of the scores for Amazing Spider-Man were adjusted recently. The changes make a lot of sense to me. They seem mostly in line with prices realized for those books.

 

If that's what you're going for, you might want to look at Avengers #1, 3, and 4. Those point totals seem kind of low, at least compared to other Silver Age Marvels that sell in the same price range.

 

(Of course, I realize it's crazy to notice or care about this stuff. But it is fun.)

 

Thanks!

[Bosco685]

Dime Press 4's points should stay right where they are at, in my opinion. The hype machine surrounding this book have blown its value way out of proportion. San Diego Comic-Con Comics 2 should be boosted higher as even in both Mignola HCs, he makes it clear this is where he feels the character finally hit the market.

 

Amazing how some folks get points so easy. Just incredible!

 

[Doc Joe]

Thrilling comics 44 and 41 are getting some points love in the very high grade, the trouble is they don't exist in such grades!

 

an 8.0 sold for $3000 and an 8.5 sold for around $3500

 

at the moment an 8.0 gets 550 and a 8.5 gets 870 for issues 44

 

41 does a bit better.

 

I think they could do with a bump throughout the grade given how desirable these two books are

 

Joe

[mikelutes]

I just have a small request, in the Wolverine Limited Series (1982) set, the Trade Paperback is barely worth any points at all, and I understand that the comics themselves are more valuable but with only 12 total trade paperbacks graded I think it deserves a little more then simply 15 points for a 9.6 as in comparison to the over 1900 graded of #4 and more then 2000 of the other 3, only 12 being graded makes it quite a rare find and whereas I don't expect it to be worth as many points as the comics I think at least doubling its points would be fair.

 

[cheetah]

Thrilling comics 44 and 41 are getting some points love in the very high grade, the trouble is they don't exist in such grades!

 

an 8.0 sold for $3000 and an 8.5 sold for around $3500

 

at the moment an 8.0 gets 550 and a 8.5 gets 870 for issues 44

 

41 does a bit better.

 

I think they could do with a bump throughout the grade given how desirable these two books are

 

Joe

 

All the Nedors deserve like a bazillion points.

[mikelutes]

One other thing I noticed Gemma is that the Dark Horse Presents Fifth Anniversary Special is worth significantly less points in the Sin City (Dark Horse Presents) set then what it's worth in the Dark Horse Presents set.

[Icculus308win]

Gemma, could you configure the Jonny Quest #31 scores when convenient? I will be adding one shortly and noticed there are no point values.

 

Thank-you!!

[mschmidt]

Hi Gemma,

 

A couple of requests:

 

1) I'd like to see the points value decreased for the Sandman #19 Error Version in the Sandman set. It currently gets 200 points in 9.8 which is too high for a book that sells in the $50 range (and is common as dirt) - perhaps drop it down to the same points value as the #19 regular edition?

 

2) And I'd like to see the points value increased for Primer #5 in the Primer set. Last GPA sale for a 9.8 was $1,500, so 304 points in 9.8 is pretty darn low. Imho, it should be the highest-scoring book in that set.

 

Thanks!

[P Keel]

Gemma,the points awarded for The Nam #2 should be higher than #1. I believe that they should almost double #1 due to the black back cover and also due to the fact it has print run defects. Iam not being biased due to collecting just a fact that I have ran into. Currntly I have no cgc copies of this book and others do. No bias here this is what I believe as some graded copies go for $100 or more.(if you can get them)

[Bosco685]

Since the Dave Stevens registry grew a very dedicated fan base, it would be nice to adjust some of the book points if possible to match the prices, demand, and scarcity for some of the material.

 

- 3-D Zone #16: Two 9.8's sold by board members (Nearmint, Klozd24seven) sold for $400, and I sold a 9.4 for $155, and is one of the tougher books to track down. Yet the book receives only 72 points. I'd like to recommend at least 400 points for this book.

 

- Airboy #5: This book in 9.8 is still selling in the $100 range, but receives 48 points. I'd like to recommend 100 points for this book.

 

- Crossfire #12: Another hot 9.8 book that sells in the $100 (+) range, but receives 56 points. I'd like to recommend 100 points for this book.

 

- Planet Comics #1: This is definitely high on the demand list, and we've had at least 3-4 9.8's sold on here in the past year for $100 (+), but a 9.8 receives 40 points. I'd like to recommend 100 points for this book.

 

- Sheena 3-D Special #1: A book that has sold at least two copies on here in the past year for $80, yet it receives 40 points. I'd like to recommend 80 points.

 

There are others like Crossfire & Rainbow #4 that I don't even have a nice copy of that should definitely be ranked higher, point-wise, because of the demand for such books. I'd hope some other Stevens collectors will speak up for these books.

[miraclemet]

Gemma,the points awarded for The Nam #2 should be higher than #1. I believe that they should almost double #1 due to the black back cover and also due to the fact it has print run defects. Iam not being biased due to collecting just a fact that I have ran into. Currntly I have no cgc copies of this book and others do. No bias here this is what I believe as some graded copies go for $100 or more.(if you can get them)

 

having just completed a run (not for slabbing, but for binding) I can confirm that #2 is a tougher pull than #2, but neither compare to the hard to find nature of #79-84 at the end of the run where subscriptions fell off, people jumped off the run because it was ending and orders were cut since the book was ending. #83 seems to be the highest value, and hardest to find.

 

I'd bump those last three up at least to the same point level as the beginning of the series.

[Lee K]

Gemma~

 

I am confused by the scores for the Justice League (2011) set. While I agree that there is only a negligable difference in the value of the variant covers to the regular covers (they tend to sell for about double face value) - the 1 in 200 sketch covers are selling in the $150 - $200 range unslabbed and it seems unreasonable for them to be valued at the same rate as the regular cover.

 

I'm not sure that it is equitable for the points to change from the last issue of the Justice League of America (2006) run to the first issue of the Justice League (2011) run - no time elapsed between the runs. There really isn't any significant difference between the sets; and the books, both variant covers and regular covers, at the end of the run (2006) are valued significantly differently from the (2011) books.

 

thanks

Lee K

[Lobo1969]

Not a points problem but the new Aliens:Hive set has listings for double #1s, #2s, #3, #4. Eight slots in all when there should be four.

[Cimm]

Since the Dave Stevens registry grew a very dedicated fan base, it would be nice to adjust some of the book points if possible to match the prices, demand, and scarcity for some of the material.

 

- 3-D Zone #16: Two 9.8's sold by board members (Nearmint, Klozd24seven) sold for $400, and I sold a 9.4 for $155, and is one of the tougher books to track down. Yet the book receives only 72 points. I'd like to recommend at least 400 points for this book.

 

- Airboy #5: This book in 9.8 is still selling in the $100 range, but receives 48 points. I'd like to recommend 100 points for this book.

 

- Crossfire #12: Another hot 9.8 book that sells in the $100 (+) range, but receives 56 points. I'd like to recommend 100 points for this book.

 

- Planet Comics #1: This is definitely high on the demand list, and we've had at least 3-4 9.8's sold on here in the past year for $100 (+), but a 9.8 receives 40 points. I'd like to recommend 100 points for this book.

 

- Sheena 3-D Special #1: A book that has sold at least two copies on here in the past year for $80, yet it receives 40 points. I'd like to recommend 80 points.

 

There are others like Crossfire & Rainbow #4 that I don't even have a nice copy of that should definitely be ranked higher, point-wise, because of the demand for such books. I'd hope some other Stevens collectors will speak up for these books.

 

I agree, Nick. And only having 40 points for most of the 9.9s is awfully, awfully low, considering that, where there even IS a 9.9, there is only one. And I'd like to add that Cheval Noir #1 only being at 32 points for the sole 9.8 is just ridiculously low. Please, Gemma, these Dave Stevens covers have high demand, require high dollar amounts (relatively) to acquire, and are bleeding scarce. They deserve higher scores. Bare minimum for the 9.8s should be in the 50+ range, and at least 3 times that for the 9.9s.

[Bosco685]

And I'd like to add that Cheval Noir #1 only being at 32 points for the sole 9.8 is just ridiculously low.

 

 

I never caught that.