The Official "Hey, these scores need fixing" thread (Revised)

[Wayne Enterprises]

Hi Gemma,

 

1) Would it be possible to take a look at the amount of points received for Batman 121?

The amount of points given seem pretty low for a key book that is scarce in high grade. Thanks

[Bosco685]

Since the Dave Stevens registry grew a very dedicated fan base, it would be nice to adjust some of the book points if possible to match the prices, demand, and scarcity for some of the material.

 

- 3-D Zone #16: Two 9.8's sold by board members (Nearmint, Klozd24seven) sold for $400, and I sold a 9.4 for $155, and is one of the tougher books to track down. Yet the book receives only 72 points. I'd like to recommend at least 400 points for this book.

 

- Airboy #5: This book in 9.8 is still selling in the $100 range, but receives 48 points. I'd like to recommend 100 points for this book.

 

- Crossfire #12: Another hot 9.8 book that sells in the $100 (+) range, but receives 56 points. I'd like to recommend 100 points for this book.

 

- Planet Comics #1: This is definitely high on the demand list, and we've had at least 3-4 9.8's sold on here in the past year for $100 (+), but a 9.8 receives 40 points. I'd like to recommend 100 points for this book.

 

- Sheena 3-D Special #1: A book that has sold at least two copies on here in the past year for $80, yet it receives 40 points. I'd like to recommend 80 points.

 

There are others like Crossfire & Rainbow #4 that I don't even have a nice copy of that should definitely be ranked higher, point-wise, because of the demand for such books. I'd hope some other Stevens collectors will speak up for these books.

 

I agree, Nick. And only having 40 points for most of the 9.9s is awfully, awfully low, considering that, where there even IS a 9.9, there is only one. And I'd like to add that Cheval Noir #1 only being at 32 points for the sole 9.8 is just ridiculously low. Please, Gemma, these Dave Stevens covers have high demand, require high dollar amounts (relatively) to acquire, and are bleeding scarce. They deserve higher scores. Bare minimum for the 9.8s should be in the 50+ range, and at least 3 times that for the 9.9s.

 

Joshua, congrats on landing the #1 registry set. Hopefully, the points these books deserve follows right behind your accomplishment.

 

[Doc Joe]

yes the prices need a bump, especially some of the 9.9's but I would contend that census number are due to low submission than due to true scarcity. 400 points is a pretty huge jump just based on a couple of sales.

 

The top scoring set has 1000 points and now a single book would be worth almost half that

 

some bump yes, not that. These books will command some interesting prices for a while but eventually, can you say Alien Worlds 4?

 

[Bosco685]

The top scoring set has 1000 points and now a single book would be worth almost half that

 

some bump yes, not that. These books will command some interesting prices for a while but eventually, can you say Alien Worlds 4?

I'm not sure if I agree with you completely if two buyers have already stated with their purchases they feel this is a $400 book in the past 6 months. Not sure why you had to call that scewy thinking.

 

Honestly, have you found one for sale yet - even with your offer of paying above market for such books?

[Bosco685]

These books will command some interesting prices for a while but eventually, can you say Alien Worlds 4?

And I hate to say it, but this can be said of many books over time. Look at Harbinger 1, GI Joe 21, and others that for a time were super-rare to track down.

 

Many will show census growth over time. But meanwhile, with the census numbers so low, the prices high, and the demand just as high, what do we base registry numbers on?

 

Scarcity/Availability - Demand - Price

[Doc Joe]

screwy to assign 400 point to a single book, when currently 1/3 of the registry is worth 1000 - seems disproportionate

 

I must say I have not ready 3D-16, so I am not sure if it was a key book with the intoduction of a new character or something? School me.

 

Whiz 2(1) in 7.0 sold for 65K a few months ago, then a 6.0 sold for $175K a few months later. Should the scores get constantly adjusted based on sales data? Or was it just a couple of wacky people paying top dollar for a book they want paying a price that is completely unsustainable.

 

I agree with a points increase across most of the titles. Just not convinced that one deserves such special attention based on two sales points.

 

Its no big deal, just thats the point of this thread, people make suggestions and other comment. Its all imaginary points at the end of the day!

 

[Bosco685]

I agree - this thread is for open discussion. When people jump in with calling a suggestion screwy, stupid (heard this more than once), or other references just to pick a fight - that's different. I'm sure that wasn't your intent.

 

As far as justifying why a book costs a certain amount, I've not normally seen this as the norm to have points assigned. But since it is one of the toughest books to track down in 9.8 condition, and there are only 4 at this grade, that should be an indicator of why collectors paid what they did for the only two that came up for sale.

 

Now challenging the value of a book with it being just two crazy purchases - interesting. So how many sales on a book with only a handful of 9.8 examples needs to occur before it is considered a trend? I think only one from the history of requests, but let's see what your unbiased perspective would be.

 

 

[Doc Joe]

sorry Bosco but why is it a special comic, thats what I am wondering, I just dont know, but maybe you know? There is a huge amount about comics that I dont know, so I am probably missing something but I am excited to learn.

 

There are none of your ideas or suggestions that were screwy; as I posted above it just really skews sets (like the Hulk set where you can have all the issues but if you have a 181 in 9.8 - you win) when one book stands out so much. Typically that book will have a special demonstrable significance to stand out from the crowd. So, has anyone read the darn thing? What notes are on the CGC label? Why is it special?

[Bosco685]

sorry Bosco but why is it a special comic, thats what I am wondering, I just dont know, but maybe you know?

Glad to see we took this from uncivil to polite again. Not sure why it went the other way from you.

 

Three factors play into this for those that know about the different Dave Stevens books.

 

- Low distribution.

- Extremely sensitive cover - once it has a spine crease, it's there for life.

- Thick cover material caused cracks when bent around the inside material, most probably from the inside 3-D glasses.

 

For anyone that regularly participates in the Stevens thread, it was noted as one of the top covers created by Dave Stevens. But that statement also depends on your preferences for his artwork, and which cover catches your eye the most.

 

 

So no - not a screwy request if someone truly knows the books they are collecting, and the background associated with such books.

[Doc Joe]

Bosco I have not had a problem with you but if you are saying I am uncivil then I think I do now.

 

You have listed reasons the book may be hard to find in grade but nothing that has anything to do with the significant of the comic itself.

 

I think 3D-16 in 9.8 should be worth 100 points.

 

Gemma, I suspect a poll is needed to determine the true value of the legendary 3D-16

 

Im done

 

 

[seanfingh]

[Bosco685]

Bosco I have not had a problem with you but if you are saying I am uncivil then I think I do now.

 

Sorry, but this doesn't even come close to "Hey, I don't understand why this book would be worth so much" from a normal viewpoint.

 

The top scoring set has 1000 points and now a single book would be worth almost half that

 

Hopefully you see the difference, as this is not this

[Bosco685]

Bosco I have not had a problem with you but if you are saying I am uncivil then I think I do now.

 

You have listed reasons the book may be hard to find in grade but nothing that has anything to do with the significant of the comic itself.

 

I think 3D-16 in 9.8 should be worth 100 points.

 

Gemma, I suspect a poll is needed to determine the true value of the legendary 3D-16

 

Im done

 

Legendary?

 

Okay Joe - you weren't calling the idea screwy at all.

[DrWatson]

Did I click on the expansion thread by mistake?

[Marvelfangirl]

Bosco I have not had a problem with you but if you are saying I am uncivil then I think I do now.

 

You have listed reasons the book may be hard to find in grade but nothing that has anything to do with the significant of the comic itself.

 

I think 3D-16 in 9.8 should be worth 100 points.

 

Gemma, I suspect a poll is needed to determine the true value of the legendary 3D-16

 

Im done

 

Legendary?

 

Okay Joe - you weren't calling the idea screwy at all.

Do you want to get another strike?

[Doc Joe]

OK, so if 3D-zone 16 is now worth 384 points

 

lets raise some of the other books in the Dave Stevens run based on Price and Demand

 

Cheval Noir 1 dark horse - had an offer of $350 for issue 1 which was declined (!)

it is thought to have a problem with production making 9.8 very hard to find (from owner who said he prescreens 'many' copies to try to find a 9.8 ( there are less 9.8 copies of them that 3D-16) suggested points in 9.8 = 400

 

Orbit 1 - again very very hard to find in grade - only 4 graded copies (2 in 9.8) (compare with 13 universal of 3d-16 - which has 4 in 9.8) - suggested points in 9.8 - 400

 

both high demand DS books that are much harder to find that 3-D zone 16

 

Bettie Page Queen of the Nile issue 2 seems to be in hot demand, a copy just sold for $240 + change on comic link only 7 graded copies (less than half of 3-D zone 16). Suggested points in 9.8 = 200

 

Jungle Comics 1 - has 2 in 9.8, a total of 6 graded copies - gets 40 points in 9.8 - I think it should go up to 250

 

Mr. Monster - another great DS cover - has only 4 graded copies also - a 9.8 currently gets 24 lousy points. I would suggest a 9.8 receive 200 in keeping with desirability and scarcity.

 

Bos I really did not disagree with you that DS needs more respect, but there are a lot of these titles in high demand, I do not think just one should be singled out for points love, there are others as well.

 

Thanks for your consideration Gemma,

 

Joe

[Bosco685]

OK, so if 3D-zone 16 is now worth 384 points

 

lets raise some of the other books in the Dave Stevens run based on Price and Demand

 

Cheval Noir 1 dark horse - had an offer of $350 for issue 1 which was declined (!)

it is thought to have a problem with production making 9.8 very hard to find (from owner who said he prescreens 'many' copies to try to find a 9.8 ( there are less 9.8 copies of them that 3D-16) suggested points in 9.8 = 400

 

Orbit 1 - again very very hard to find in grade - only 4 graded copies (2 in 9.8) (compare with 13 universal of 3d-16 - which has 4 in 9.8) - suggested points in 9.8 - 400

 

both high demand DS books that are much harder to find that 3-D zone 16

 

Bettie Page Queen of the Nile issue 2 seems to be in hot demand, a copy just sold for $240 + change on comic link only 7 graded copies (less than half of 3-D zone 16). Suggested points in 9.8 = 200

 

Jungle Comics 1 - has 2 in 9.8, a total of 6 graded copies - gets 40 points in 9.8 - I think it should go up to 250

 

Mr. Monster - another great DS cover - has only 4 graded copies also - a 9.8 currently gets 24 lousy points. I would suggest a 9.8 receive 200 in keeping with desirability and scarcity.

 

Bos I really did not disagree with you that DS needs more respect, but there are a lot of these titles in high demand, I do not think just one should be singled out for points love, there are others as well.

 

Thanks for your consideration Gemma,

 

Joe

 

So you do care, Joe.

 

Cimm and I definitely recommended more than one book for points adjustment, and encouraged more recommendations to ensure this entire registry set was taken into consideration.

 

But our recommendations were based on sales that have occurred. In the case of 3-D Zone 16 CGC 9.8's, two sales that have occurred within a 6-month period of $400 (plus the 9.4 I sold for $155). That's why I couldn't understand you calling my suggestion crazy other than not being aware of the scarcity and demand for these books.

 

And 3-D Zone 16's hardly ever come up for sale due to their scarcity and demand, while the other books you mention come up frequently in various conditions. Check Ebay and other sites and let me know what you find on each of these books. I just lucked out and found an 80's closed comic store stock that had never sold off his 3-D Zone 16's. Otherwise, you see this book sold by itself on rare occasions.

 

- Cheval Noir 1: What has this book sold for in the 9.4-9.8 range? I'd take a look at this to determine a suggestion. There are two 9.8's and one 9.4, and I think only one of the 9.8's sold as I believe Faster Friends owns the 9.4 example.

 

- Orbit 1: Not a scarce book, and has two 9.8's and two 9.6's in the census. And we recently had someone selling 6-8 copies of this in the Copper Age sales thread. I even sold a 9.6/9.8 last year to a board member, and this year wanted to find a new copy which was bought off another board member. It's another 9.6/9.8 example. Just not heavily submitted yet.

 

- Mr. Monster 2: The first 9.8 to surface sold on ComicLink last year for $42 during one of its auctions. There are now three 9.8's and one 9.6 example. I'll submit my raw copy soon to see where it lands.

 

- Jungle Comics 1: Two 9.8's, three 9.6's, and one 9.4, and I know one of the 9.8's and a 9.6 came from Reynolds Jay on Ebay who usually sells his Stevens books in the $79-$99 range. What's GPA show for previous sales?

 

- Bettie Page: Queen of the Nile 2: No offense, but the hot demand was you and Josh bidding it out on ComicLink. But you both were willing to pay over $200, even though there are six 9.8's in the census. And now Pedigree Comics has posted a 9.8 for $250 due to that sale. So there should be some points adjustment made to account for this one trendsetting sale.

 

Admit it, Joe - you love Copper Age and Dave Stevens books. It's the addiction that keeps on giving. You're in good company.

 

[cheetah]

I love all the attention Dave Stevens' work is getting. Such great cover art. Makes me think I ought to go through my long boxes and see which copies I bought off the shelf.

 

Gemma, with all the updates to the SA and GA titles last year, I wondered if you could review the scoring of the main Fiction House titles of the 1940s - Jungle, Jumbo, Rangers, Fight, Wings and Planet. They seem to have fallen pretty far behind the curve.

[Doc Joe]

I agree with Cheetah

[AGGIEZ]

OK, so if 3D-zone 16 is now worth 384 points

 

lets raise some of the other books in the Dave Stevens run based on Price and Demand

 

Cheval Noir 1 dark horse - had an offer of $350 for issue 1 which was declined (!)

it is thought to have a problem with production making 9.8 very hard to find (from owner who said he prescreens 'many' copies to try to find a 9.8 ( there are less 9.8 copies of them that 3D-16) suggested points in 9.8 = 400

 

Orbit 1 - again very very hard to find in grade - only 4 graded copies (2 in 9.8) (compare with 13 universal of 3d-16 - which has 4 in 9.8) - suggested points in 9.8 - 400

 

both high demand DS books that are much harder to find that 3-D zone 16

 

Bettie Page Queen of the Nile issue 2 seems to be in hot demand, a copy just sold for $240 + change on comic link only 7 graded copies (less than half of 3-D zone 16). Suggested points in 9.8 = 200

 

Jungle Comics 1 - has 2 in 9.8, a total of 6 graded copies - gets 40 points in 9.8 - I think it should go up to 250

 

Mr. Monster - another great DS cover - has only 4 graded copies also - a 9.8 currently gets 24 lousy points. I would suggest a 9.8 receive 200 in keeping with desirability and scarcity.

 

Bos I really did not disagree with you that DS needs more respect, but there are a lot of these titles in high demand, I do not think just one should be singled out for points love, there are others as well.

 

Thanks for your consideration Gemma,

 

Joe

 

 

Gotta agree with you here Joe. I noticed the updated score last night and thought it was "screwy". Some individuals on the boards, once they acquire a book, like to ensure that the book's score is increased for 'inventory' tracking purposes.

 

Seriously though, a lot of the Dave Stevens books need to be reevaluated BUT I don't think exponentially increasing scores on these books is what should happen at this point. As I've said before, low census numbers don't always mean the book is rare...e.g. GI Joe #21 a few years ago. Obviously not a scarce book in 9.8 but you wouldn't have known that from the census a few years back. Now there are close to 50 copies in CGC 9.8.

 

There are several books in the set that don't even show scores. Once the registry participants fill in the more common holes you will begin to see books like Alter Ego 21/43, the Shadow books, the Venus books, etc. get slabbed. At this point there is only ONE copy of Venus Domina Candlemass Eve Special in the census. If we go screwing with all of the scores at this point we're going to create a mess once everyone determines what the truly scarce books in the set are...