• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

IF PRESSING ISN'T RESTORATION.....

Started by THE_BEYONDER,

217 posts in this topic

Red Hook

Red Hook

Posted
Posted

As far as I can tell, "correctly pressed books" are books that on which CGC can not detect the pressing. If I am wrong about this, can somebody please correct me........

Link to comment
Share on other sites
fantastic_four

fantastic_four

Posted
Posted
As far as I can tell, "correctly pressed books" are books that on which CGC can not detect the pressing. If I am wrong about this, can somebody please correct me........

 

I am unable to detect your meaning...therefore, you must be correct! insane.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Timely

Timely

Posted
Posted
At the Longbeach show last weekend Steve outrightly said "correctly" pressed books are not restored books. He is correct.

 

Since you agree with him...what are "correctly" pressed books?

 

Like anything...there's the good, the bad and the ugly. Amateur hacks who do not know what the heck they are doing can butcher a book if pressing is not done correctly. I have never attempted to press a book and I do not know the exact details involved, but I do know most of them. If it is not done correctly the book can become warped. You may press a books paper too thin and i can only imagine the mess you'ld have on your hands...like a pancake that's thin as a dime! Also if not done correctly the crease may still be there. If you cannot 100% remove the crease from the visual eye then why bother messing with it?

 

I'm sure creases on/near the spine take a lot more work and "know-how" as opposed to those on the outter edge.

 

Timely

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Red Hook

Red Hook

Posted
Posted
As far as I can tell, "correctly pressed books" are books that on which CGC can not detect the pressing. If I am wrong about this, can somebody please correct me........

 

I am unable to detect your meaning...therefore, you must be correct! insane.gif

 

27_laughing.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Red Hook

Red Hook

Posted
Posted

But Timely........

 

What does a "correctly pressed book" look like? What charactistics does it exhibit? Pancake flat? What? And how can you tell if a book is pressed professionally or unintentionally, like the MH collection? It still seems to me that a correctly pressed book is defined as one in which the pressing can not be detected.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
PovertyRow

PovertyRow

Posted
Posted

Because on a similar note I have seen (and own) some books where a name was written on the cover and then erased with an eraser. Is that restoration? No, of course not. Why? Because it is also an accepted part of our hobby that has been around far longer than CGC

 

I have to disagree with that (sorry). To be zen-like grin.gif, a thing is what it is. A book with erasure done is restored, plain and simple. To bring it further, that simple erasure changes the surface structure of the paper's "coating". It is impossible to apply any form of erasure to a book and not impact the "coating".

 

Only when things have been added in an attempt to restore a book can you rightfully call it a restored book.

 

Also when things are removed. Such as an erased pencil marking (see above). Or when staples are taken out, rust removed from them, and then resinserted. Or when various chemical solvents are applied to remove various types of stains. Or when the structure of paper fibres and "coating" is modified or rearranged by humidification.

 

Now these are much more "benign" forms of restoration but they are restoration none-the-less. Otherwise, they would not be on a restorer's bill o'fare.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
fantastic_four

fantastic_four

Posted
Posted
If you cannot 100% remove the crease from the visual eye then why bother messing with it?

 

So if you can't detect it, it's not restoration? What about extremely skillful trims on white-paged books? Are those not restoration if you can't tell for sure? If a tree falls in the woods and nobody's there to hear it...does it make a sound?

 

I've got to imagine that by this definition of pressing not being restoration if it's not well-done, a percentage of the books in a few of the most famous pedigrees were technically restored BEFORE they ever left the original owner's possession! shocked.gif Or is the criterion something we mentioned a few months back--a minimum pounds-per-square-inch measurement, beyond which it's considered restoration because simple pressure from a stack couldn't have caused it? confused-smiley-013.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rip

Rip

Posted
Posted

Here's my theory on how they would do this. First intent wouldn't matter. People know MH copies were stacked so if the book had that enough pressure applied to it, its pressed. So use your own knowledge of the events to determine how much you want to pay. As Steve and other dealers have pointed out creases expand, the clam shell shape is crushed. Ink transfers on the inside. A improperly pressed book has these defects. A "properly" pressed book does not have these defects. confused-smiley-013.gif Something to think about. So if you can't detect these DEFECTS, its not tagged as pressed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Timely

Timely

Posted
Posted
Because on a similar note I have seen (and own) some books where a name was written on the cover and then erased with an eraser. Is that restoration? No, of course not. Why? Because it is also an accepted part of our hobby that has been around far longer than CGC

 

I have to disagree with that (sorry). To be zen-like grin.gif, a thing is what it is. A book with erasure done is restored, plain and simple. To bring it further, that simple erasure changes the surface structure of the paper's "coating". It is impossible to apply any form of erasure to a book and not impact the "coating".

 

Only when things have been added in an attempt to restore a book can you rightfully call it a restored book.

 

Also when things are removed. Such as an erased pencil marking (see above). Or when staples are taken out, rust removed from them, and then resinserted. Or when various chemical solvents are applied to remove various types of stains. Or when the structure of paper fibres and "coating" is modified or rearranged by humidification.

 

Now these are much more "benign" forms of restoration but they are restoration none-the-less. Otherwise, they would not be on a restorer's bill o'fare.

 

When the staples are reinserted in they are being ADDED back into the book. The rust that is removed is only removed when a chemical is ADDED. Stains are removed when chemicals are ADDED.

The point here is you can only detect restoration when something has been ADDED to the book. When things are properly taken away you cannot.

 

As I've said before...if you keep a book on a table for 1 full year and afterwards you take a dust cloth to it...you are removing dirt...it is not restoration...even though technically you are "cover cleaning" the book.

 

Timely

Link to comment
Share on other sites
fantastic_four

fantastic_four

Posted
Posted
A improperly pressed book has these defects. A "properly" pressed book does not have these defects. confused-smiley-013.gif Something to think about So if you can't detect these DEFECTS, its not pressed.

 

So, the innocent (people who stacked comics vertically for decades) and the unskilled are guilty, whereas the guilty (people skilled enough to press with humidification and heat) and the skilled are innocent.

 

Something about that feels like the Bizarro world. insane.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Red Hook

Red Hook

Posted
Posted

Well, then, if a book were labeled "professionally pressed" on the CGC label, then maybe I wouldn't stick my nose up at it, if I also knew that the odds of it reverting to it's previous condition were minimum.

 

I mean, I've got a book or two in which a piece of the cover has chipped off or floating around in the well....I don't expect 100%, just let me know what the hell is going on, when I put my sheckles down!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
joe_collector

joe_collector

Posted
Posted
As far as I can tell, "correctly pressed books" are books that on which CGC can not detect the pressing. If I am wrong about this, can somebody please correct me........

 

You're dead wrong, and while there are "press jobs" that may be hard to detect, I've personally seen "steamrolled CGC comics" that are flatter than a pancake. These are disgusting books, with the spine flattened to a razor-edge, and just scream "I was pressed using 6-million pounds per square inch".

 

Now if someone tries to feed me a line about those books being flat due to "stacking pressure" then they better have a picture of comics piled a few miles high.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
FFB

FFB

Posted
Posted

With all due respect, Timely, that's your opinion. I think erasure and pressing are restoration because the condition of the book changes from worse to better. I agree that intent does not matter.

 

Can we back off of the phrasing "CGC doesn't consider pressing to be restoration" unless someone is able to post a link to a thread where Borock says this? CGC not defining pressing as restoration is entirely different from them declining to note intentional restoration when they can't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

At the Longbeach show last weekend Steve outrightly said "correctly" pressed books are not restored books. He is correct.

 

Intent has nothing to do with question of whether pressing is restoration or not. Why?... Because on a similar note I have seen (and own) some books where a name was written on the cover and then erased with an eraser. Is that restoration? No, of course not. Why? Because it is also an accepted part of our hobby that has been around far longer than CGC...and most of us! I'm sure CGC (myself included) downgrades for badly erased books where not only is the name erased but so is the color. This is not restoration, even though the intent is clear.

 

With pressing, nothing has been added to the book, just like with erasure marks. Only when things have been added in an attempt to restore a book can you rightfully call it a restored book.

 

Timely

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Red Hook

Red Hook

Posted
Posted
As far as I can tell, "correctly pressed books" are books that on which CGC can not detect the pressing. If I am wrong about this, can somebody please correct me........

 

You're dead wrong, and while there are "press jobs" that may be hard to detect, I've personally seen "steamrolled CGC comics" that are flatter than a pancake. These are disgusting books, with the spine flattened to a razor-edge, and just scream "I was pressed using 6-million pounds per square inch".

 

Now if someone tries to feed me a line about those books being flat due to "stacking pressure" then they better have a picture of comics piled a few miles high.

 

OK, so you are saying that CGC will indeed see a book that they know is pressed, make a judgement call on it as to whether is was "properly pressed" and then give it the green light?

 

I stand corrected. Thanks JC.

 

thumbsup2.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites
FFB

FFB

Posted
Posted

I disagree about the Edgar Church books being "restored" if they were at the bottom of the pile. A book has to have flaws before it can be "restored," and there were no flaws on the uncreased books in the bunch because of the way they were cared for and stored. Simply adding pressure to a book doesn't make an already NM book a "restored" book. Otherwise, one could make the ridiculous argument that any time you stack one book on top of another, you are "pressing" the bottom book. Just my two cents.

 

Here's my theory on how they would do this. First intent wouldn't matter. People know MH copies were stacked so if the book had that enough pressure applied to it, its pressed. So use your own knowledge of the events to determine how much you want to pay. As Steve and other dealers have pointed out creases expand, the clam shell shape is crushed. Ink transfers on the inside. A improperly pressed book has these defects. A "properly" pressed book does not have these defects. confused-smiley-013.gif Something to think about. So if you can't detect these DEFECTS, its not tagged as pressed.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Go to topic listing