IF PRESSING ISN'T RESTORATION.....

[joe_collector]

Well,....Joe,...I'm sure you use heavy backing boards and tight Mylars on your older books as most of us do,....now that has a direct effect on the book over time by straightening out and flattening a book over time,...is that intentional Restoration??

 

No, because that is part of the standard storage methods, and to even bring up this totally flawed comparison is to admit zero knowledge of high-PSI/humidity pressing techniques.

 

Here's a little homework for you. Now let's say a standard book press (available online for a few hundred dollars) exerts 5,000 PSI, now do a little math and figure out how many comic books it would take to equal that.

 

Trust me, it's a HUGE number and would require outdoor stacking (ontop of an uncrushable material) and the stack would probably be visible from outer space.

[Rip]

Ok, so I though I'd make a tangable list of ways to deal with pressing........

 

Would you......

 

A: Make an orange label called "Pressed"

That way intent wouldn't matter, hopefully most pressed for dollar books would be detected.

 

Crushed books would be considered a defect just like tan pages is considered a defect.

 

If you are a collector who doesn't like pressed books you now have that new found awareness and can avoid those non virgin looking books. Mile High or not, it doesn't matter the book is pressed. MH books/ other books that have changed in grade would be noted as often as possible. Although a certain amount of pressed books would get through undetected hopefully that number would be small.

 

 

B. Same as A but just Don't make another label.

 

C. Forget about it. Just try to live with it. Who cares

 

D. Discourage pressing, "out" those that press.

Keep track of those books that are pressed.

 

E. Another solution similar to A but we are not at that level of detection yet.

Need more understanding of pressing detection first

 

F. Something else

[fantastic_four]

so if a collector takes an eraser to a pencil mark on a comic that is resto?

If someone puts a stack of encyclopedias on a comic to press it- that is resto?

Huh?

 

Why do people use erasers and stacks of encyclopedias on comics?

[fantastic_four]

Good list of options...it would make a nice poll! I vote for option "E. Another solution similar to A but we are not at that level of detection yet. Need more understanding of pressing detection first"

[Murph]

If CGC doesn't consider writing a downgradeable defect, to erase writing wouldn't be an improvement to the book thus not restoration? Using that case specifically, I myself downgrade for writing.

 

Brian

[joe_collector]

Writing does limit a comic hitting the ultra-high grade CGC levels, and although erasing it may not increase the grade, it certainly does up its appeal and marketability.

 

There was a "clean and press" GA Superman book that was posted awhile back, and it had the writing cleaned, a higher grade, and a much higher ending price.

[garthgantu]

Yes, but in the case of that cleaned and pressed Supes, we don't really know for sure how much of the 'bump' in grade was due to the pressing and how much was due to the cleaning?

 

I too would like to know how much weight CGC places on writing, in terms of 'deducting' grade points... there's a WW or Sensation 1 in 9.4 that has pretty significant writing - a person's name in 1" letters, approx.

So, on a related point, where does CGC draw the line on writing? A person's name is okay, but scribbling is verboten?

 

If *some* amount of writing on the cover of a book is considered a 'defect' and cause the grade to drop, then removing that writing would constitute restoration, yes? And if the answer is yes, then does it really matter what type of "writing removal" method is used?

 

I keep coming back to the fact that CGC seems to define "acceptable" restoration as "detectable" restoration - or is this just a convenient coincidence? "We can't (consistently) spot pressing that doesn't involve disassembling the book, so therefore such pressing is acceptable. We can't identify all types of cleaning (specifically, dry cleaning), so therefore such cleaning is acceptable."

[Clark Khaos-migration]

I keep coming back to the fact that CGC seems to define "acceptable" restoration as "detectable" restoration - or is this just a convenient coincidence? "We can't (consistently) spot pressing that doesn't involve disassembling the book, so therefore such pressing is acceptable. We can't identify all types of cleaning (specifically, dry cleaning), so therefore such cleaning is acceptable."

 

That's been my main problem with third-party grading from the beginning: suddenly, some supposed "uninvolved" party is (however inadvertently) making decisions that redefine the industry as a whole. And who's to say they're the right decisions?

[garthgantu]

I would be more easily convinced that they WERE the right decisions if they didn't line up so conveniently along the "detection" border.

 

CGC does a very solid job of detecting color touch, for example. I'm not aware of a single instance in which someone outside CGC discovered a Blue-slabbed CGC book with color touch that wasn't noted by CGC. So I'm inclined at this point to give CGC the benefit of the doubt to some extent when they declare "minor amounts of color touch on GA books are acceptable in Blue slabs." Still seems sort of arbitrary, but okay, I'll live with that.

 

But when they state that "the following forms of cleaning and pressing are acceptable, and we can't detect them," it sticks in my craw. The fact that some number of people are taking advantage of this "loophole" and doing so very publicly thru Heritage and eBay auctions of the resubs, makes it that much more alarming and troubling.

 

I'm not saying I have an airtight solution to the problem, but I am saying that if CGC wants to maintain its status as "official arbiter of comic book grading and restoration," they need to address the problem.

[Captain Tripps]

Hook,

 

It seems to me, unwarranted, that you've got something against Jason Ewert. Let me set you and every other recent anti-Ewert subscriber that I've known Jason for a long time (over 10 years) and he's one of the most honest, straight, non-[!@#%^&^] dealers I've met. And believe me, I've met and have known many, many dealers in the 13 years I've now been back into collecting. I remember Jason being (hands down) the absolute strictest grader ever. He used to call other dealers' NMs as VFs!! He never graded a book above NM and if he did grade a particular book NM, it was closer to Mint!!

 

Anyway, I happen to know the story behind the DD 11 Green River (was 9.4, now 9.6) and its comical that some people are accusing Jason of any wrongdoing. I know for a fact that he sold this book to a collector (whose name I will not mention) who himself re-submitted the book tro CGC. When the book was upgraded to a 9.6, it was actually offerred to me, but I declined since I have the Boston DD 9.8. This collector then asked Jason to sell it for him on e-bay & subsequently decided to pull it off e-bay himself. I know because I know this collector and he himself told me what happened, not Jason.

 

I just thought I would put my 2 senses in here because it is very unfair the way Jason is being treated and accused of being a "presser" and somebody who looks to upgrade books. The last time I saw Mr. Ewert was at a show in NYC (Big Apple con) and he was looking through boxes of raw books, which is what I always see him do. I wish I had the time or the eye to find great raw books like he does, but I don't.

 

I just find it amazing that a stand-up, nice guy like Jason is being ostracised on these boards for absolutely no reason. I'm sure I'm not the only big collector out there who will stake his reputation on Jason (at least I think I am a big collector).

Ask anybody else about his reputation, even the guys at CGC.

 

And, as for my opinion to this thread, pressing is not restoration. If you are simply undoing some trivial defect that was caused by poor handling (a small impact, bend, light crease, etc. that was caused after the book's printing process), you are only putting the book back to its original, untouched state (the way the book looked before the ding/crease/bend occurred). This is not restoration.

 

Cleaning the cover, removing rust from the staples, small color touches, etc. are forms of restoration, in my opinion, that differs in a great way from pressing. I'm not saying this because I get my books pressed, but from a common sense view.

Anything more than a simple "flattening" of the book is restoration.

[THE_BEYONDER]

And, as for my opinion to this thread, pressing is not restoration. If you are simply undoing some trivial defect that was caused by poor handling (a small impact, bend, light crease, etc. that was caused after the book's printing process), you are only putting the book back to its original, untouched state (the way the book looked before the ding/crease/bend occurred). This is not restoration.

 

 

 

[joe_collector]

I just thought I would put my 2 senses in here because it is very unfair the way Jason is being treated and accused of being a "presser" and somebody who looks to upgrade books.

 

So just for the record, you are saying Jason DOES NOT press books and submit to CGC?

 

I just want to get the statement before I type anything further.

[fantastic_four]

- Anyway, I happen to know the story behind the DD 11 Green River (was 9.4, now 9.6) and its comical that some people are accusing Jason of any wrongdoing. I know for a fact that he sold this book to a collector (whose name I will not mention) who himself re-submitted the book tro CGC. When the book was upgraded to a 9.6, it was actually offerred to me, but I declined since I have the Boston DD 9.8. This collector then asked Jason to sell it for him on e-bay & subsequently decided to pull it off e-bay himself. I know because I know this collector and he himself told me what happened, not Jason.

 

How is this any better than Jason having had the work done himself? He sold the Green River DD 11 to someone...and then a few months later...he gets it sent back to him on consignment at a higher grade from the same guy he sold it to? What--did he not notice the grade went up? Hard to believe.

 

I'm not even saying I necessarily have a problem with it even if he had the work done himself, but since you felt the need to offer the story, I must say--it doesn't really "clear" him, if that's even needed to begin with.

[THE_BEYONDER]

If you are simply undoing some trivial defect that was caused by poor handling

[FFB]

Isn't a couple of small hits of color touch the same thing? Or a 1/16th inch tear seal? And what if the "trivial defect caused by poor handling" that is being removed is a 1 inch long non-color-breaking bend that would knock a NM book down to VF? Pressing that sucker out isn't resto? Huh?

 

And, as for my opinion to this thread, pressing is not restoration. If you are simply undoing some trivial defect that was caused by poor handling (a small impact, bend, light crease, etc. that was caused after the book's printing process), you are only putting the book back to its original, untouched state (the way the book looked before the ding/crease/bend occurred). This is not restoration.

[Murph]

Hold on, there's a distinct difference between doing the work yourself and accepting a consignment from someone who did. The lynch Jason Ewert wagon had long since sailed a while back and without real merit (as does most things on these forums). Suddenly it's not the case so we're looking for a new reason to jump all over him again? He takes a consignment, that's what his job is. To take consignments from sellers and sell their book on eBay.

 

Brian

[joe_collector]

The lynch Jason Ewert wagon had long since sailed a while back and without real merit (as does most things on these forums).

 

Forgive him, he knows not what he speaks.

[drbanner]

Hold on, there's a distinct difference between doing the work yourself and accepting a consignment from someone who did. The lynch Jason Ewert wagon had long since sailed a while back and without real merit (as does most things on these forums). Suddenly it's not the case so we're looking for a new reason to jump all over him again? He takes a consignment, that's what his job is. To take consignments from sellers and sell their book on eBay.

 

Brian

 

Was there any work done to the book, or was it just a 9.4 to 9.6 resub?

[supapimp]

Was there any work done to the book, or was it just a 9.4 to 9.6 resub?

 

it's just a theory.

[drbanner]

Was there any work done to the book, or was it just a 9.4 to 9.6 resub?

 

it's just a theory.

 

I see...