IF PRESSING ISN'T RESTORATION.....

[joe_collector]

Well, in the case of the Daredevil 11, Ewert did acquire Shin Kao's Green River 9.4, and resubbed for a 9.6....

 

There are tons of other examples that fit my above scenario, but for obvious reasons, most don't want to talk about them.

[Rip]

Great point.....

[Red Hook]

I'm not disagreeing....I'm just saying that I suspect that dealers are also on the lookout for already slabbed high grade books that they think they can break out of the slab, press and resub for the next step up grade, and more $$$$$$.

[Timely]

As I've said before...if you keep a book on a table for 1 full year and afterwards you take a dust cloth to it...you are removing dirt...it is not restoration...even though technically you are "cover cleaning" the book.

 

And as I have replied to that before, the dust does not impact the book. (well, actually it CAN depending on the composition) but assume it is simple benign dust. Nothing is impacted. The structure of the pages etc remain as they were. You are just removing syrface dust.

 

You take an eraser to a coverand you impact the "clay" and the calendaring of that cover. You are actually removing or modifying it. No getting around that.

 

Only when things have been added in an attempt to restore a book can you rightfully call it a restored book.

 

Where did you come up with this theory? On what is it based? Also, is not pressure "added" to a book? Is not humidity "added" to a book? (and believe me, pressure and humidity DO impact the paper composition - it is definitely modified).

 

Actually it's a proven fact that 80% of the household dust comes from the human body, dead skin, mucus and other things that can easily decompose and interact with a book. Even though it's microscopic in nature so is most of this topic...ie: pressing and microscopic defects that pressing produces that you expect CGC to detect.

 

Timely

[fantastic_four]

That's what so ludicrous about the whole pressing debate, equating a few minutes of press-time with the incredibly rare instance of comics properly stacked for decades.

 

What is the specific physical difference in the end result? Most of the "heavy duty pro pressing" you keep referring to doesn't rely on extremely high pressure, it relies on heat and humidity. So if a wrinkle on one book is pressed out by a decade in a stack, and a wrinkle on another is pressed out by a dry-mount press...how can you tell which was which? Once the deed is done, is the end result so noticably different?

[FFB]

Well I want to find out. I am trying it right now with an Amazing Spider-Man CGC 8.5. I cracked the slab and put it under a few dictionaries, several thick books, three bricks and an egg salad sandwich. I intend to keep the weight the same for three months. I'll post with my results then, and will provide an update a few months later. I expect fewer creases but more odor.

 

Is that low amount of pressure sufficient to remove a bend permanently? I didn't think it was.

 

I dunno really, I've never tried vertical stacking and have no idea how much pressure can be exerted by hundreds of books stacked up except the anecdotes about how flat the Church books from the bottom of the stacks were. Tripps said the same thing about the Pacific Coasts from the bottom of those stacks. Sounds like someone needs to experiment with different PSI levels on books to see what the effects are.

[PovertyRow]

defects that pressing produces that you expect CGC to detect.

 

OK - I am gonna do something that i hardly ever do - I am going to curse. God Dammit! When did I EVER say I expect CGC to detect ANYTHING? What do I really care what CGC detects and doesn't?

 

1) A book was manufactured that has no waviness to it.

 

2) Said book, over the course of time, has acquired waviness.

 

3) Said waviness is pressed out of the book.

 

4) The book has been restored to its pre-waviness condition.

 

What is so freaking hard to understand??

 

I now return to my precursor. (Hey! That was decently clever!)

[FFB]

Dry cleaning does not get a PLOD. Only "wet" cleaning.

 

No examples of ONLY a press. It doesn't count if it's accompanied by a clean?

 

Of course not, as cleaning has always gotten a PLOD from CGC.

 

I guess "proper pressing" means you do not disassemble the book and you don't dip it in cleaning solution. Anything else is fair game.

[FFB]

Rip asked me to find this link for him, so I'm posting it here.

 

Borock's take on pressing and cleaning

 

Dry cleaning does not get a PLOD. Only "wet" cleaning.

 

No examples of ONLY a press. It doesn't count if it's accompanied by a clean?

 

Of course not, as cleaning has always gotten a PLOD from CGC.

 

I guess "proper pressing" means you do not disassemble the book and you don't dip it in cleaning solution. Anything else is fair game.

[Rip]

Please also post the more recent one about detecting pressing and grading golden age books differently

[fantastic_four]

Wow, that was just last month...so easy to forget.

 

There's too many posts around here, I wish people wouldn't stack everything in General...it all blends together.

[PovertyRow]

There's too many posts around here, I wish people wouldn't stack everything in General...it all blends together

 

Agreed - it was why the Grading and Restoration topic was created.

[PovertyRow]

CGC does not consider DRY cleaning (earsure, not water or solvent) and pressing (when not taken apart and done correctly/safely) restoration. (previous italics taken from the SB post linked)

 

My response to that is

 

I mean - how many people are there in CGC who make restoration decisions? I am sure a handful. So what we have is a handful of people saying such and such and it is suddenly true?

 

We have a pre and a post conditions. If things were done to get a post-condition book to a pre-condition book, that is restoration.

 

And if it is not restoration, I'd like to know what it is.

 

PS - Have met Steve, eaten a meal with him, drunk his pricey wine, and like the guy - but I don't have to agree with him dagnabbit!

[metropoliscomics]

so if a collector takes an eraser to a pencil mark on a comic that is resto?

If someone puts a stack of encyclopedias on a comic to press it- that is resto?

Huh?

V

 

And Borock does pick some tasty wine! not sure what this is supposed to me....

[Timely]

defects that pressing produces that you expect CGC to detect.

 

OK - I am gonna do something that i hardly ever do - I am going to curse. God Dammit! When did I EVER say I expect CGC to detect ANYTHING? What do I really care what CGC detects and doesn't?

 

1) A book was manufactured that has no waviness to it.

 

2) Said book, over the course of time, has acquired waviness.

 

3) Said waviness is pressed out of the book.

 

4) The book has been restored to its pre-waviness condition.

 

What is so freaking hard to understand??

 

I now return to my precursor. (Hey! That was decently clever!)

 

You personally did not say you expected CGC to detect pressing, but based on the obvious, it seems like people everyone expects CGC to know whether a book has been pressed or not. Since the topic of this thread is decided whether pressing is restoration or not, naturally you (CGC) would have to be able to spot it.

 

Timely

[joe_collector]

You personally did not say you expected CGC to detect pressing, but based on the obvious, it seems like people everyone expects CGC to know whether a book has been pressed or not. Since the topic of this thread is decided whether pressing is restoration or not, naturally you (CGC) would have to be able to spot it.

 

It's like any other form of resto, and while some may slide by, please don't try and tell me that 100% of current Universal "press jobs" are totally undetectable.

 

Restored books have slid under the CGC radar before, so does that mean they just throw up their arms and stop checking? Same goes for press jobs, and the ones they can detect should be flagged as such.

[Rip]

What do you think about all of this Vincent? Should we press for a higher grade when we can? Is this good, bad for the hobby? Thoughts?

[PovertyRow]

Since the topic of this thread is decided whether pressing is restoration or not, naturally you (CGC) would have to be able to spot it.

 

Understood. I just come from a different camp. I don't care about how detectable something is. I just care about what has been done. I don't understand how the ability or the inability to detect a process makes it resto or not resto. The deed has been done.

[joe_collector]

Is this good, bad for the hobby? Thoughts?

 

Short term gain in exchange for long term pain.

 

Even speculators have their limits, and rampant pressing combined with the natural "Census Spike" by-product will have speculators dumping their plastic slabs in no time.

 

But in the short-term, it will buy the press-job artists a few more ivory back-scratchers.

[PovertyRow]

so if a collector takes an eraser to a pencil mark on a comic that is resto?

If someone puts a stack of encyclopedias on a comic to press it- that is resto?

Huh?

V

 

And Borock does pick some tasty wine! not sure what this is supposed to me....

 

Yeah, Steve B has good taste in wine.

 

Now to answer the pertinent question - if a process has been done to a book to return it to a previous condition, that is, in my opinion restoration. I honestly do not see how it can be seen as otherwise.

 

Another way of phrasing that, so it makes it a bit plainer: if a process has been done to a book to restore it to a previous condition, that is, in my opinion restoration. I honestly do not see how it can be seen as otherwise.