If they are, should CGC refrain from dealing with Robojo/Danny D/Perry Stroud?

[seanfingh]

I'm not worried about sufunk's example. I am worried about bomber-bob's insinuation that he knows of a book that sold in a 6.0 slab and was cracked and sold raw for 7.0

 

My observation of a book I previously owned that was cracked out and sold raw for a full grade point higher (example 6.0 to 7.0) of a major key that meant a doubling of a large pricetag was with a major, trusted seller on the Boards.

 

That, to me, is a jaw-dropper.

 

Why is that a jaw dropper?

 

People in the other thread said that they will DO that and not disclose the previous CGC grade and that was perfectly fine since CGC is just an opinion and not infallible.

 

I don't even know what other thread you are talking about. Most of the stuff I pay attention to in General is the intellectual equivalent of lighting farts on fire.

 

I do remember one about cracking slabs and selling raw, but I doubt I got past page 2 or 3 of that one.

 

So, yeah, jaw is still dropped.

[yecul]

If you thought the book was a 7 and CGC thought it was an 8 would you complain? But the reverse and it's "just an opinion"?

 

I'm sorry that your book didn't grade as you thought. I am sorry if YOU were the victim of misrepresentation when you bought it. But at the end of the day you and everyone else knows that it's not the right thing to do.

 

Now, if you are ok with that. If you are ok with being shady, then fine. That's on you. But let's not pretend this is merely an opinion that is being brushed aside. This is a professional paid service that YOU sought out in hopes of giving your wares more credibility and only when it didn't match with your expectations did you take issue with it.

 

That's the general you I'm using and is not directed at anyone in particular.

[sufunk]

I'm not worried about sufunk's example. I am worried about bomber-bob's insinuation that he knows of a book that sold in a 6.0 slab and was cracked and sold raw for 7.0

 

My observation of a book I previously owned that was cracked out and sold raw for a full grade point higher (example 6.0 to 7.0) of a major key that meant a doubling of a large pricetag was with a major, trusted seller on the Boards.

 

That, to me, is a jaw-dropper.

 

Why is that a jaw dropper?

 

People in the other thread said that they will DO that and not disclose the previous CGC grade and that was perfectly fine since CGC is just an opinion and not infallible.

 

I don't even know what other thread you are talking about. Most of the stuff I pay attention to in General is the intellectual equivalent of lighting farts on fire.

 

I do remember one about cracking slabs and selling raw, but I doubt I got past page 2 or 3 of that one.

 

So, yeah, jaw is still dropped.

 

lighting farts on fire

 

Ahhh, the good ole days

[VintageComics]

I'm not worried about sufunk's example. I am worried about bomber-bob's insinuation that he knows of a book that sold in a 6.0 slab and was cracked and sold raw for 7.0

 

My observation of a book I previously owned that was cracked out and sold raw for a full grade point higher (example 6.0 to 7.0) of a major key that meant a doubling of a large pricetag was with a major, trusted seller on the Boards.

 

That, to me, is a jaw-dropper.

 

Fingh, I have no idea what book Bob is talking about but there are plenty of things that can happen to a book as it changes hands.

 

For example, someone buys the CGC graded book, cracks it out, presses a book into a higher grade and then sells it raw.

 

Although they may or may not disclose the pressing (not a big deal to some, a big deal to others), the book may actually be a higher technical grade than it previously was even though the book may look similar.

 

Or, someone cracked it out and the new owner bought it raw in the "new" grade and doesn't know the previous grade.

 

Additionally, we have all seen books jump (or drop) CGC grades without a pressing. I think there was just a book in the selling forum recently that the seller disclosed went up two grade points on a straight resub with no pressing involved...so which was the correct grade? The first one or the second one?

 

Lots of things to consider before lighting the torches and pulling out the pitchforks.

 

(thumbs u

[seanfingh]

I'm not worried about sufunk's example. I am worried about bomber-bob's insinuation that he knows of a book that sold in a 6.0 slab and was cracked and sold raw for 7.0

 

My observation of a book I previously owned that was cracked out and sold raw for a full grade point higher (example 6.0 to 7.0) of a major key that meant a doubling of a large pricetag was with a major, trusted seller on the Boards.

 

That, to me, is a jaw-dropper.

 

Fingh, I have no idea what book Bob is talking about but there are plenty of things that can happen to a book as it changes hands.

 

For example, someone buys the CGC graded book, cracks it out, presses a book into a higher grade and then sells it raw.

 

Although they may or may not disclose the pressing (not a big deal to some, a big deal to others), the book may actually be a higher technical grade than it previously was even though the book may look similar.

 

Or, someone cracked it out and the new owner bought it raw in the "new" grade and doesn't know the previous grade.

 

Additionally, we have all seen books jump (or drop) CGC grades without a pressing. I think there was just a book in the selling forum recently that the seller disclosed went up two grade points on a straight resub with no pressing involved...so which was the correct grade? The first one or the second one?

 

Lots of things to consider before lighting the torches and pulling out the pitchforks.

 

(thumbs u

 

Or we could let Occam's Razor slice the jugular out of this person_without_enough_empathy and just presume that the person cracked out a 6.0 and sold it as a 7.0 as quickly as possible to make more bread off the suckers. Based on a lot of what i have seen around here, I shouldn't be surprised, but yet, I am.

[VintageComics]

Or we could let Occam's Razor slice the jugular out of this person_without_enough_empathy and just presume that the person cracked out a 6.0 and sold it as a 7.0 as quickly as possible to make more bread off the suckers. Based on a lot of what i have seen around here, I shouldn't be surprised, but yet, I am.

 

Absolutely a possibility.

 

(thumbs u

[sufunk]

Or we could let Occam's Razor slice the jugular out of this person_without_enough_empathy and just presume that the person cracked out a 6.0 and sold it as a 7.0 as quickly as possible to make more bread off the suckers. Based on a lot of what i have seen around here, I shouldn't be surprised, but yet, I am.

 

Absolutely a possibility probability.

 

(thumbs u

 

Fixed that for ya (thumbs u

[VintageComics]

Or we could let Occam's Razor slice the jugular out of this person_without_enough_empathy and just presume that the person cracked out a 6.0 and sold it as a 7.0 as quickly as possible to make more bread off the suckers. Based on a lot of what i have seen around here, I shouldn't be surprised, but yet, I am.

 

Absolutely a possibility probability.

 

(thumbs u

 

Fixed that for ya (thumbs u

 

Scenario:

 

There was a CGC graded book that regraded 2 grade points higher on a straight resub with no pressing.

 

If someone sold it as a raw book in the higher grade they would have been crucified for fraudulant actions but because it's now in a CGC holder it's ok.

 

Any thoughts on this real life scenario?

 

[sufunk]

Or we could let Occam's Razor slice the jugular out of this person_without_enough_empathy and just presume that the person cracked out a 6.0 and sold it as a 7.0 as quickly as possible to make more bread off the suckers. Based on a lot of what i have seen around here, I shouldn't be surprised, but yet, I am.

 

Absolutely a possibility probability.

 

(thumbs u

 

Fixed that for ya (thumbs u

 

Scenario:

 

There was a CGC graded book that regraded 2 grade points higher on a straight resub with no pressing.

 

If someone sold it as a raw book in the higher grade they would have been crucified for fraudulant actions but because it's now in a CGC holder it's ok.

 

Any thoughts on this real life scenario?

 

Thats a tougher question but that scenario is not the norm. I still think the previous grade should ALWAYS be disclosed. The book may have jumped 2 grades on a straight resub but that was no guarantee so selling it 2 grades higher with no mention of the previous grade is still shady in my book. I have no problem at all though with someone cracking out a book and selling it saying something like "this was in a 9.0 holder but CGC must have been smoking crack that day, this IS a 9.4, look at the scans and tell me this is a 9.0!".

 

My problem is someone flat out saying "i bought this stack of CGC books. I'm cracking them all out, regrading them and putting them for sale on my website raw with no mention on their previous grade". It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that almost all of those books will be graded higher than CGC did and sold for a higher price. I dont know of many people running websites selling books for a loss so obviously the regrade is to get more money out of the books, no?

[seanfingh]

 

Scenario:

 

There was a CGC graded book that regraded 2 grade points higher on a straight resub with no pressing.

 

If someone sold it as a raw book in the higher grade they would have been crucified for fraudulant actions but because it's now in a CGC holder it's ok.

 

Any thoughts on this real life scenario?

 

Crack out and sell raw with no mention of the previous grade is not illegal, immoral or probably even inherently wrong. But it is a sharp business practice. And I would not patronize anyone that does it. The only reason that a seller would not disclose the previous grade is because it would hurt the resale price.

 

It is using the CGC service as both a sword and a shield. Again, not inherently wrong, but sharp, and not the type of thing I would expect to have to be worried about.

[VintageComics]

Or we could let Occam's Razor slice the jugular out of this person_without_enough_empathy and just presume that the person cracked out a 6.0 and sold it as a 7.0 as quickly as possible to make more bread off the suckers. Based on a lot of what i have seen around here, I shouldn't be surprised, but yet, I am.

 

Absolutely a possibility probability.

 

(thumbs u

 

Fixed that for ya (thumbs u

 

Scenario:

 

There was a CGC graded book that regraded 2 grade points higher on a straight resub with no pressing.

 

If someone sold it as a raw book in the higher grade they would have been crucified for fraudulant actions but because it's now in a CGC holder it's ok.

 

Any thoughts on this real life scenario?

 

Thats a tougher question but that scenario is not the norm. I still think the previous grade should ALWAYS be disclosed. The book may have jumped 2 grades on a straight resub but that was no guarantee so selling it 2 grades higher with no mention of the previous grade is still shady in my book. I have no problem at all though with someone cracking out a book and selling it saying something like "this was in a 9.0 holder but CGC must have been smoking crack that day, this IS a 9.4, look at the scans and tell me this is a 9.0!".

 

My problem is someone flat out saying "i bought this stack of CGC books. I'm cracking them all out, regrading them and putting them for sale on my website raw with no mention on their previous grade". It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that almost all of those books will be graded higher than CGC did and sold for a higher price. I dont know of many people running websites selling books for a loss so obviously the regrade is to get more money out of the books, no?

 

I'm simply trying to show you that it's not a black and white issue as some people try to make of it.

 

(thumbs u

 

I sell raw and CGC graded books on here and on eBay but I sell less and less raw books now than I used to. I suppose I was naive at one time thinking I could reverse engineer CGC's grades and accurately represent them.

 

Personally, I just don't think it's fair to be a decent grader, which I think I am, but also to be expected to know CGC's grading standards and guarantee CGC grades on books that I sell. Especially when those CGC grades can change.

 

I will sometimes throw up a raw book for sale with a guaranteed CGC grade (and 8 or 9 out of 10 times they are spot on or undergraded as the books come back in higher grades from what I hear) but I am learning that if someone wants a CGC grade, they should buy a CGC graded book.

 

If someone wants to buy a raw book, they should

 

a) either by from someone who's grading and resto detection they believe they can trust or

b) learn how to grade for yourself and be happy with your purchases regardless of what someone else (including CGC) says about the grade

 

...but it's niave and unfair to think you are going to buy a raw book with the expectation that you are going to get a CGC graded book.

 

CGC is terrific. They are not the final word.

 

 

[VintageComics]

 

Scenario:

 

There was a CGC graded book that regraded 2 grade points higher on a straight resub with no pressing.

 

If someone sold it as a raw book in the higher grade they would have been crucified for fraudulant actions but because it's now in a CGC holder it's ok.

 

Any thoughts on this real life scenario?

 

Crack out and sell raw with no mention of the previous grade is not illegal, immoral or probably even inherently wrong. But it is a sharp business practice. And I would not patronize anyone that does it. The only reason that a seller would not disclose the previous grade is because it would hurt the resale price.

 

It is using the CGC service as both a sword and a shield. Again, not inherently wrong, but sharp, and not the type of thing I would expect to have to be worried about.

 

Agreed, and I am neither condoning nor condemning the practice (I don't recall that I've ever cracked out a CGC graded book and sold it raw without disclosing the previous CGC grade) but it is as you say, a sharp practice.

 

The one thing I would weigh in (which was already mentioned), is if someone did it consistently (like baijoubaby on eBay) or just a small fraction of the time where the seller honestly disagree with the grade.

 

(thumbs u

[Timmay]

Hypo here:

I buy an Avengers 1 in 6.0 for $X, crack it and sell it as a 6.5 for $x+$200. Am I a scumbag?

 

You were one before your hypo so doesn't matter.

 

[arexcrooke]

[COI]

I'm not worried about sufunk's example. I am worried about bomber-bob's insinuation that he knows of a book that sold in a 6.0 slab and was cracked and sold raw for 7.0

 

My observation of a book I previously owned that was cracked out and sold raw for a full grade point higher (example 6.0 to 7.0) of a major key that meant a doubling of a large pricetag was with a major, trusted seller on the Boards.

 

That, to me, is a jaw-dropper.

 

It's tough out there. Don't hate the playa.

[comicdonna]

Good to see you around, Arex!

[Flaming_Telepath]

I'll repeat what I said a week or so ago...

 

I can't see how a seller can crack a slab and sell at a higher grade...I think CGC pretty much aims for the grade ceiling on everything that goes through their hands...but if for some strange reason, they do believe a higher grade is justifiable and want to sell as such raw...then they must disclose the grade CGC gave and allow the buyer to decide.

 

Just good, ethical practice. (thumbs u

[Speedy-D]

I'll repeat what I said a week or so ago...

 

I can't see how a seller can crack a slab and sell at a higher grade...I think CGC pretty much aims for the grade ceiling on everything that goes through their hands...but if for some strange reason, they do believe a higher grade is justifiable and want to sell as such raw...then they must disclose the grade CGC gave and allow the buyer to decide.

 

Just good, ethical practice. (thumbs u

Two questions:

 

1. Does this translate to, "They over grade?"

2. Aren't there many resubs that get higher grades? Wouldn't that suggest that they didn't hit the "grade ceiling" on the first submission (pending definition).

[Flaming_Telepath]

I'll repeat what I said a week or so ago...

 

I can't see how a seller can crack a slab and sell at a higher grade...I think CGC pretty much aims for the grade ceiling on everything that goes through their hands...but if for some strange reason, they do believe a higher grade is justifiable and want to sell as such raw...then they must disclose the grade CGC gave and allow the buyer to decide.

 

Just good, ethical practice. (thumbs u

Two questions:

 

1. Does this translate to, "They over grade?"

2. Aren't there many resubs that get higher grades? Wouldn't that suggest that they didn't hit the "grade ceiling" on the first submission (pending definition).

 

Generally, I think they do overgrade.

 

Clearly one or two get through the net first time around, but they catch them and honour them with the Big Numbers they deserve on the do-over. (thumbs u

[DrWatson]

do-overs