No more Paypal personal for me. Big Brother came and took it :(

[brasseye]

Paypal exists to help transactions on ebay become safer for both buyer and seller. That's a service everyone should be glad for. Your bank will not be of any use should you want to buy anything on ebay. Everyone knows by now that money orders can be used with no problem, but you don't get ebay bucks. there are other perks that actually bring down the 2.9% as well

 

PP does a great service, no question. But their fee's are set up to mimic a bank. But banks come with guarantee's that PP certainly does not.

My advice would be simply never have a substantial balance sitting with them. Ultimately, if they went south, your come back would be less than the value of a bad joke on the subject.

 

And to the average consumer, they hold themselve's out a pseudo bank, and ask the same fee's as a bank. The notion is fraudulant in itself.

Plus PP contracts are a one way affair, which is more commonly know as an inequitable relationship. And they know that. It's no accident that PP Uk registered office was moved to Luxenbourg years ago, where's the US one registered, Bermuda, Sachelles??

This company isn't there as an institution in any shape of form. They are there to ring out profit, full stop.

[Junkdrawer]

If you were to perform the same operation on a larger scale it would be a felony and you would go to jail (The Paypal thing, not the speeding). Your defense would be laughed at.

 

Instead of trying to 'stick it' to a large corporation, you need to start your own company and hire the best lobbyists you can to change the laws in your favor.

Ever take your own candy or drink into a theatre? I always stop at the dollar store for gummy bears, rather than pay $4 for a smaller box, I also walk in with a Dunk's coffee in my hand, far from concealed. I have yet to be told I can't. I think this was a policy that was over ruled by the masses, filed under "We're not gonna take it"

[RockMyAmadeus]

Ahem, PP isn't a bank, zero comeback for the consumer, yet they have their fee's based on a bank's structure.

 

Anyone ever negoiated the terms of their contract???

 

what...nooooo, wow, guess what thats called...anyone???

 

 

An overpriced electronic transfer is about 50c, but what was your last fee statement like???

 

PP/Ebay Uk are registered in Luxenbourg.... a highly accessible place jurisdictionally speaking

 

Yet baffoons here accuse people of stealing from them!!!

You need your head checked!!!

 

 

Oh my goodness, what awful, horrible, victocraty thinking.

 

Yuck.

 

Here's simple logic, something your mom probably taught you:

 

Paypal's bad actions do not justify bad actions against them on my part.

 

In other words, two wrongs don't make a right.

 

(However, three rights DO make a left. I digress.)

 

What is the REAL lesson of Robin Hood...?

[RockMyAmadeus]

If you were to perform the same operation on a larger scale it would be a felony and you would go to jail (The Paypal thing, not the speeding). Your defense would be laughed at.

 

Instead of trying to 'stick it' to a large corporation, you need to start your own company and hire the best lobbyists you can to change the laws in your favor.

Ever take your own candy or drink into a theatre? I always stop at the dollar store for gummy bears, rather than pay $4 for a smaller box, I also walk in with a Dunk's coffee in my hand, far from concealed. I have yet to be told I can't. I think this was a policy that was over ruled by the masses, filed under "We're not gonna take it"

 

I was TERRIBLY dismayed when the Burbank AMC stopped allowing outside food and drink into the theatre, because there are fewer pleasures greater than taking a DoubleDouble, fries, and a strawberry shake from In n' Out and watching an action flick while chowing down.

 

Since they put up their sign, I haven't taken any in. It's their place, their rules. It's not immoral, but it is rude. My choice? I've seen a single film since December of 2009. I can go home and chow down on my In n' Out just as easily.

 

[brasseye]

Ahem, PP isn't a bank, zero comeback for the consumer, yet they have their fee's based on a bank's structure.

 

Anyone ever negoiated the terms of their contract???

 

what...nooooo, wow, guess what thats called...anyone???

 

 

An overpriced electronic transfer is about 50c, but what was your last fee statement like???

 

PP/Ebay Uk are registered in Luxenbourg.... a highly accessible place jurisdictionally speaking

 

Yet baffoons here accuse people of stealing from them!!!

You need your head checked!!!

 

 

 

Oh my goodness, what awful, horrible, victocraty thinking.

 

Yuck.

 

Here's simple logic, something your mom probably taught you:

 

Paypal's bad actions do not justify bad actions against them on my part.

 

In other words, two wrongs don't make a right.

 

(However, three rights DO make a left. I digress.)

 

What is the REAL lesson of Robin Hood...?

 

I think your thinking is based in 'fairy tales' actually.

 

It's a contractual relationship, the rules of which are governed by contract law.

Like I said, when was the last time you ever discussed those terms with you friendly Ebay/PP staff???

 

Oh thats right, never!

 

... do I really need to go on.

 

 

It's an inequitable relationship... the buck stops right there.

[Junkdrawer]

If you were to perform the same operation on a larger scale it would be a felony and you would go to jail (The Paypal thing, not the speeding). Your defense would be laughed at.

 

Instead of trying to 'stick it' to a large corporation, you need to start your own company and hire the best lobbyists you can to change the laws in your favor.

Ever take your own candy or drink into a theatre? I always stop at the dollar store for gummy bears, rather than pay $4 for a smaller box, I also walk in with a Dunk's coffee in my hand, far from concealed. I have yet to be told I can't. I think this was a policy that was over ruled by the masses, filed under "We're not gonna take it"

 

I was TERRIBLY dismayed when the Burbank AMC stopped allowing outside food and drink into the theatre, because there are fewer pleasures greater than taking a DoubleDouble, fries, and a strawberry shake from In n' Out and watching an action flick while chowing down.

 

Since they put up their sign, I haven't taken any in. It's their place, their rules. It's not immoral, but it is rude. My choice? I've seen a single film since December of 2009. I can go home and chow down on my In n' Out just as easily.

 

The Boston Garden has removed all free drinking fountains and won't allow you to bring your own water to an event, you must buy high priced water....or die.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Ahem, PP isn't a bank, zero comeback for the consumer, yet they have their fee's based on a bank's structure.

 

Anyone ever negoiated the terms of their contract???

 

what...nooooo, wow, guess what thats called...anyone???

 

 

An overpriced electronic transfer is about 50c, but what was your last fee statement like???

 

PP/Ebay Uk are registered in Luxenbourg.... a highly accessible place jurisdictionally speaking

 

Yet baffoons here accuse people of stealing from them!!!

You need your head checked!!!

 

 

 

Oh my goodness, what awful, horrible, victocraty thinking.

 

Yuck.

 

Here's simple logic, something your mom probably taught you:

 

Paypal's bad actions do not justify bad actions against them on my part.

 

In other words, two wrongs don't make a right.

 

(However, three rights DO make a left. I digress.)

 

What is the REAL lesson of Robin Hood...?

 

I think your thinking is based in 'fairy tales' actually.

 

It's a contractual relationship, the rules of which are governed by contract law.

Like I said, when was the last time you ever discussed those terms with you friendly Ebay/PP staff???

 

Oh thats right, never!

 

... do I really need to go on.

 

 

It's an inequitable relationship... the buck stops right there.

 

Yes. You really do need to go on, because thusfar, you have done nothing but make misstatements.

 

Here's where you fail: you agreed to Paypal's terms before using the service. All users are required to agree to Paypal's terms before using the service.

 

If you didn't like those terms, was there someone forcing you to accept them and use Paypal against your will? If you thought it was an "inequitable relationship", please...tell me who made you use their services?

 

Hmmmm...?

 

If you do not like Paypal's terms, you have the RIGHT and FREEDOM to NOT USE THEM.

 

 

I know, stunning, right?

 

Your logic is non-existent. Like I said: just because Paypal may have committed and may currently be committing (and Lord knows, they've had their fair share of court time) bad acts does not...under any conceivable circumstances...therefore give you the right to commit bad acts against them in return.

 

No legal authority in Western civilization would grant you that right. Your "buck stops here" cliché has no meaning in this conversation.

 

Really. You guys make it much, much too easy. Cartman makes better arguments than these.

 

PS. I discuss terms with Paypal all the time. You can call them. Paypal's number is 1-888-221-1161. I dunno what the US country code you'd have to dial would be, though.

[RockMyAmadeus]

If you were to perform the same operation on a larger scale it would be a felony and you would go to jail (The Paypal thing, not the speeding). Your defense would be laughed at.

 

Instead of trying to 'stick it' to a large corporation, you need to start your own company and hire the best lobbyists you can to change the laws in your favor.

Ever take your own candy or drink into a theatre? I always stop at the dollar store for gummy bears, rather than pay $4 for a smaller box, I also walk in with a Dunk's coffee in my hand, far from concealed. I have yet to be told I can't. I think this was a policy that was over ruled by the masses, filed under "We're not gonna take it"

 

I was TERRIBLY dismayed when the Burbank AMC stopped allowing outside food and drink into the theatre, because there are fewer pleasures greater than taking a DoubleDouble, fries, and a strawberry shake from In n' Out and watching an action flick while chowing down.

 

Since they put up their sign, I haven't taken any in. It's their place, their rules. It's not immoral, but it is rude. My choice? I've seen a single film since December of 2009. I can go home and chow down on my In n' Out just as easily.

 

The Boston Garden has removed all free drinking fountains and won't allow you to bring your own water to an event, you must buy high priced water....or die.

 

Those are my only choices...?

 

Or...I guess...just not go to events at The Boston Garden. Or drink lots of water before getting out of the car. Or leave the venue during a break and go to your car. Are you allowed to leave the venue to go to your car?

 

[mikenyc]

Don't you get tired RMA ?

[RockMyAmadeus]

Don't you get tired RMA ?

 

Nope.

 

You keep winding 'em up, I'll keep hittin' 'em out of the park.

 

[bababooey]

Don't you get tired RMA ?

 

Nope.

 

You keep winding 'em up, I'll keep hittin' 'em out of the park.

 

Were you serious about shooting Michael Phelps in order to acquire his somewhat disappointing endorsement contracts or did you feel that this man-porpoise was, in fact, proof of evolution and therefore deserving of death/injury by your hand?

[RockMyAmadeus]

Don't you get tired RMA ?

 

Nope.

 

You keep winding 'em up, I'll keep hittin' 'em out of the park.

 

Were you serious about shooting Michael Phelps in order to acquire his somewhat disappointing endorsement contracts or did you feel that this man-porpoise was, in fact, proof of evolution and therefore deserving of death/injury by your hand?

 

 

The man has 14 gold medals. FOURTEEN! And it looks like he will EASILY scoop up 4-6 more in London.

 

 

[Prince Namor]

Summary: Dont break the law, even if you feel they may be. You agreed to their terms, be a good citizen and abide by it or find a new payment option. AND...

Buy smarter and sell smarter.

[bababooey]

Don't you get tired RMA ?

 

Nope.

 

You keep winding 'em up, I'll keep hittin' 'em out of the park.

 

Were you serious about shooting Michael Phelps in order to acquire his somewhat disappointing endorsement contracts or did you feel that this man-porpoise was, in fact, proof of evolution and therefore deserving of death/injury by your hand?

 

 

The man has 14 gold medals. FOURTEEN! And it looks like he will EASILY scoop up 4-6 more in London.

 

Those 14 medals would slow him down a bit this time around.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Don't you get tired RMA ?

 

Nope.

 

You keep winding 'em up, I'll keep hittin' 'em out of the park.

 

Were you serious about shooting Michael Phelps in order to acquire his somewhat disappointing endorsement contracts or did you feel that this man-porpoise was, in fact, proof of evolution and therefore deserving of death/injury by your hand?

 

 

The man has 14 gold medals. FOURTEEN! And it looks like he will EASILY scoop up 4-6 more in London.

 

Those 14 medals would slow him down a bit this time around.

 

He's getting older. He's not 19 anymore. It will be interesting to see if his freak-of-nature body will hold up, or if the more standardized swimmers can finally catch him.

 

One of those 14 was by a hundredth of a second, after all....

[bababooey]

and this might have an impact.

[mikenyc]

What is your argument? If you take advantage of policies that create a loophole to a company you are being immoral, criminal?

 

Immoral, yes. Criminal, no. Immorality does not need to be codified to be immoral. Your reasoning dances adeptly around the issue, but it remains flawed nonetheless. Let me break it down into a simple argument you can understand:

 

IF: Paypal's "personal payment" is NOT to be used for purchasing merchandise, by their own terms...

 

THEN: Using Paypal's "personal payment" for buying/selling merchandise for the express purpose of avoiding fees the user would otherwise rightfully be charged is stealing.

 

When you go to an estate sale or flea market or comic store and buy a book you know is worth double the price do you tell them? That's not right, you know that the seller should be getting a much better deal, but what?

 

This analogy has absolutely nothing to do with this situation. It couldn't be more inappropriate. You might as well have said "Paper blanket rock spins moonpie fart!"

 

If you think knowledge and experience about a collectible's value has anything to do with circumventing the TOS of a payment company, you're nutty.

 

I think it is funny that you attempt to criticize individual sellers trying to save a few bucks against a corporation and call them thieves.

 

You have a victocrat mentality. You can see it in the words you use: "save a few bucks against a corporation"...as if "corporation" is a dirty word.

 

As for calling them thieves, if someone steals, what would the appropriate term be? "Asset removal and re-allocation specialist?"

 

Paypal serves a valuable purpose in the online community and there will be chances to take advantage. They are a fantastic service and deserve their 3% but if some guy from Tennesse can get around, God bless him!

 

 

I'd be reallllllly careful asking God to bless theft if I were you....

 

 

I'm much to lazy to individually quote your counter points so I won't.

 

1. The reason I brought up immoral vs. criminality is to show a subjective argument. For instance, I wonder what Paypal pays in taxes? If they were to take advantage of loopholes in the tax code and pay a relatively small rate to their earnings would that be immoral? Victo fart or not what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

 

2. My analogy has everything to do with the situation. I was illustrating a scenario where one could argue that the "right" thing to do would not to take advantage of a situation when someone would be on the losing end of that proposition.

 

3. I work extremely hard every day of my life and expect everyone else to do the same. My support of a free market system is unencumbered by any belief in a bad corporation or anything mildly representing such. I fully support Paypal and expect that they should be compensated for their service. The one caveat I have with any large corporation is that if I can take advantage, in any small way, and get away with it, I will. Me vs. Them, they win every time, except when I can outmaneuver until a policy change is decreed.

 

4. For you RMA, your horse may reach heaven like levels, and corporate America may bow at your bridle, but for me, I will continue to be immoral, and save my fellow boardies 3% until I die a thieving death (thumbs u

 

 

[Designer Toast]

There isn't a single person here who hasn't tried bucking the system or succeeded in doing so. Anyone claiming otherwise is pretending.

 

That is all. Goodnight.

[brasseye]

Ahem, PP isn't a bank, zero comeback for the consumer, yet they have their fee's based on a bank's structure.

 

Anyone ever negoiated the terms of their contract???

 

what...nooooo, wow, guess what thats called...anyone???

 

 

An overpriced electronic transfer is about 50c, but what was your last fee statement like???

 

PP/Ebay Uk are registered in Luxenbourg.... a highly accessible place jurisdictionally speaking

 

Yet baffoons here accuse people of stealing from them!!!

You need your head checked!!!

 

 

 

Oh my goodness, what awful, horrible, victocraty thinking.

 

Yuck.

 

Here's simple logic, something your mom probably taught you:

 

Paypal's bad actions do not justify bad actions against them on my part.

 

In other words, two wrongs don't make a right.

 

(However, three rights DO make a left. I digress.)

 

What is the REAL lesson of Robin Hood...?

 

I think your thinking is based in 'fairy tales' actually.

 

It's a contractual relationship, the rules of which are governed by contract law.

Like I said, when was the last time you ever discussed those terms with you friendly Ebay/PP staff???

 

Oh thats right, never!

 

... do I really need to go on.

 

 

It's an inequitable relationship... the buck stops right there.

 

Yes. You really do need to go on, because thusfar, you have done nothing but make misstatements.

 

Here's where you fail: you agreed to Paypal's terms before using the service. All users are required to agree to Paypal's terms before using the service.

 

If you didn't like those terms, was there someone forcing you to accept them and use Paypal against your will? If you thought it was an "inequitable relationship", please...tell me who made you use their services?

 

Hmmmm...?

 

If you do not like Paypal's terms, you have the RIGHT and FREEDOM to NOT USE THEM.

 

 

I know, stunning, right?

 

Your logic is non-existent. Like I said: just because Paypal may have committed and may currently be committing (and Lord knows, they've had their fair share of court time) bad acts does not...under any conceivable circumstances...therefore give you the right to commit bad acts against them in return.

 

No legal authority in Western civilization would grant you that right. Your "buck stops here" cliché has no meaning in this conversation.

 

Really. You guys make it much, much too easy. Cartman makes better arguments than these.

 

PS. I discuss terms with Paypal all the time. You can call them. Paypal's number is 1-888-221-1161. I dunno what the US country code you'd have to dial would be, though.

 

 

, ya you got me, I stopped using them years ago. I know a con when I see one.

But moralising over other's on this board... man that's a heck of a nerve!

 

That why I'm calling your bluff here and asking to see you cards, but all you've got is "it's baaaad, don't do it" hmm, persuasive.

 

You keep escaping my simply point, the rules aren't of what's good, bad, or otherwise.

The rules are contract law, which PP has set about to ensure Joe blog consumer never win's those.

They're registered offices are somewhere you can't pursue them through any US court.

They purport to mimic a bank with banking fee structure's, but offer zero rationalisation for that.

They have set up a monopoly, that ensures consumers are obliged to use their services.

They hold all the cards...and the system you sign onto is 101% their devising. There is no fraud to transact under an arrangement they have put in place to maximise they return for your participation.

 

If your looking for a moral justification behind transacting with corporate america... you only need to look at the newspapers of the last 3 years to quickly come up with an answer of how corporate america regards you.

Have a nice day

[Bio-Rupp]

Dang I gotta remember not to fall asleep when I post a thread like this... I missed some good in the last 9 hours.

 

Immoral Rupp