What's your CGC hang-up?

[sborock]

Just noticed how OLD those emails are -- 2001 .. Guess Hammer's days of kissing CGC rump are over now.

 

Dupcek never "kissed rump" he was just trying to play me when I told him I wanted him out of the hobby or else I would help expose him. I knew even then he was full of it. I am glad I helped expose him, even though it took longer than I thought it would.

[PovertyRow]

even though it took longer than I thought it would.

 

Words cherished when said by your lover!

[Rip]

 

But about the PLOD, have you considered a new system?

[sborock]

 

But about the PLOD, have you considered a new system?

 

What's a PLOD?

 

We are working on some new ideas, some even came from us reading the forum's suggestions. Can't tell you about it, or we'd have to off you

[towards2112]

Purple Label Of Death

[Rip]

Well its nice to know changes are being considered.

We like to think all of our counts for something.

BTW would you be willing to address a favorite topic these days... "detecting pressed books".

[PovertyRow]

What's a PLOD?

 

You know! A PLOD is when you select certain ages to have Blue Labels but then select other ages with similar effects to have Purple Labels and the people shun the Purple Labels because they do not match the rest of their Blue Labels and because the Purple Labels shout to the world "I AM RESTORED" regardless of the restoration being a color touch or a spine reinforcement/piece replacement/inpainting/spine roll removal and staple replacement or ant item from column a, b, c, d or combination of them. Which, of course, makes many people ( you know those people...the ones who are so adamant that the minus sign in a NM- cast negativity on the book) happy because now they have something, with that all-encompassing Purple Label meaning "all resto is the same", to be glad about!

 

Err - did that make sense? And errr - am I actually gonna feel good about your picking up the tab for the Wondercon Dinner after saying that?

 

Well....yeah - I guess I am! If you will still have me at the dinner table.

[Newerthannew]

Please tell the chat board why CGC won't have anything to do with you........

 

.......and remember, I still have the emails.

 

Steve

 

Could you please be more specific, as I'm unclear as to anything that I've done in the past that would legitimately cause you to act in such a threatening manner. In fact, place the emails here and that will give me a chance to review and respond.

 

Trace

 

HERE IS THE LAST EMAIL I SENT TO YOU:

(by the way, for those that don't know, "cityopus" is/was Dupcek/Koos/Hammer/Meth/etc's email address)

 

Tracey,

I am sorry to say, you will not be getting the information you would like from CGC about our product. Please see below. You can explain this to the AACC members when they ask why you can't get the info from us. I know that I will, if asked.

Please do not call for any information about how CGC works or information on our products in the future.

I am sorry that I had to write this email,

Steve Borock

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: cityopus [mailto:cityopus@email.msn.com]

Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 9:01 PM

To: Borock, Steve

Subject: Fw: Question for seller -- Item #1137750210

 

 

Steven, with all the stories floating even I don't know anymore who told me what....UNTIL I LOOK. Here's the EXACT unaltered email received from Tracey that should clear up at least ONE BIG FAT LIE HE JUST TOLD YOU. If you only would send me the lies, one at a time like you did (which I do appreciate, because I SAVE most emails and here was given a chance to show whose foot the army boot is really on), I can clear them up just as easily as this one. EVERYTHING sounds so much worse when only ONE side is presented. Since our last "talk" I do NOTHING but "good-mouth" CGC..and I can PROVE that too with emails. If you would like the header info for his email, as this is an original, I can send that too, to prove that it's content is entirely

unchanged. -Richard

-----Original Message-----

From: trace@eclipsepaper.com

To: cityopus

Date: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 5:52 AM

Subject: Re: Question for seller -- Item #1137750210

 

 

>At 07:25 PM 4/23/01 -0700, you wrote:

>>T,

>> Snip away. The proof is right on Ebay! I bought a 6.0 and 6.5 right

>>on Ebay and they should look 1/2 as good as yours!! The color and

>>spine are gorgeous! And I'm just waiting until one day when they screw

>>up real good and grade a book restored that a REAL restoration

>>spotting expert like

you,

>>Sue, Matt, fine artwork and rare book restorers, etc. KNOW isn't

>>touched.

>

>News for you - they already have! I had a client send in a book that I

>worked on and they listed restoration that wasn't done! I've heard

>that it is their policy to grade suspected books as restored - just in

>case.

>>

>>PS: T, how about a grading service from a real restoration expert that

knows

>>how to grade unbiasedly, and consistantly?

>

>I'm working on it as we speak. However, it's very time consuming and

>ultimately it will come down to money and investment from interested

>parties. I will add you to the list of interested individuals. Once I

>get something more concrete, I'll be mailing out a questionairre.

>

>Thanks

>Trace

>

>

 

Steve

 

What’s the issue? As far as I can see, you’ve printed an email from cityopus where I was replying to his direct question about:

 

how about a grading service from a real restoration expert that knows how to grade unbiasedly, and consistantly?

.

 

I frequently seek council from any potential clients on whether or not they would value such a service. At the time, cityopus (Richard Koos) was a referred client. Referred by someone I had done work for and I had no idea it was Dupcek, Hammer, or anyone else but Richard Koos. How would or how could I have known at the time?

 

So far you have highlighted something that appears to be an innocent situation. If there is something more sinister involved here, let me know. In the emails you printed, there is an ambiguous comment made by Dupcek about my honesty. After 3 years, if you would like to share that with me, I’m still curious as to what was said between him and yourself.

 

We all realize the credibility of Danny D when we know that we are dealing directly with him. I’m sure we all have a consistent opinion regarding Danny D and I’m sure you must have questioned the information he supplied to you?

 

Tracey Heft

[sborock]

Well its nice to know changes are being considered.

We like to think all of our counts for something.

BTW would you be willing to address a favorite topic these days... "detecting pressed books".

 

I will be more than happy to talk about detecting pressed books (and anything else) at the Wondercon dinner. I hope garth will be there, I never got around to answering his question

 

And Pov, you are always welcome at my table! Who said I was picking up the tab?

That place is not cheap, CGC will pick up the apps

[DiceX]

So you want all restoration hidden behind a blue label, so somewhere down the line, someone gets mislead and screwed out of full price money on a restored book.

That makes a lot of sense. Dupcak would be proud.

More things undisclosed...That's what the hobby needs.

 

Want all your restored and unrestored books to look the same?

Crack them out of the slab and put them in a mylar.

 

am I actually gonna feel good about your picking up the tab for the Wondercon Dinner after saying that?

 

He could get yours with the senior discount.

[PovertyRow]

And Pov, you are always welcome at my table! Who said I was picking up the tab? That place is not cheap, CGC will pick up the apps

 

Errrr..."apps"? Applications? Apples (we can only order apples??!!!!!!!!). Appreciation? We have to express our appreciation?

 

OMG!!!!!!!!! That is IT! We have to express our APPreciation to you or we have to kickj in with our share of the tab???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

PS - have I mentioned I am a bit on the side?

[PovertyRow]

He could get yours with the senior discount.

 

Oh man, why is everyone ragging on me today? Dagnabbit!

[DiceX]

He could get yours with the senior discount.

 

Oh man, why is everyone ragging on me today? Dagnabbit!

 

I only rag you because I like you.

[PovertyRow]

So you want all restoration hidden behind a blue label, so somewhere down the line, someone gets mislead and screwed out of full price money on a restored book.

 

OK - a serious reply - no jesting - but am amazed at the question because I have been saying what I am gonna reply to you for a long time now.

 

I don't want anything HIDDEN. When did I say I wanted it hidden?

 

I have always said that CGC should get rid of the Purple label and include FULL resto notes on the blue label. I mean, how dumb do you have to be to take a blue label book and read "staples replaced, small amount of color touch" and not know it has been restored? And to go further, I have also recommended that they make a blue label category for restoration - so we see a 9.2 RPS or 8.5 RAM (meaning 9.2 Restored Professional Slight and 8.5 Restored Amateur Moderate.)

 

Why do I suggest these seemingly foolish things? Dammed if *I* know! It just seems fair. It seems fairer than glomming a moderate amount of color touch in with the same Purple Label as a piece replaced, staples replaced, spine roll removed, extensive color touch" book and listening to the PLOD choir.

 

My goal is to NOT hide restoration. I have been VERY upfront about that. But it is also to NOT cater to the lowest uncommon denominator of uneducated "collectors" - you may be familiar with them - the ones who just buy by a CGC grade without even understanding that this 9.4 with the 1/4" of white showing on the spine may not be seen as the same book with a perfectly centered cover.

 

And again, I have said it before and will say it again - CGC should not factor in QP - just condition - the collectors should have their own QP definitions - and if a collector will pay the same for that 9.4 with the white spine off-center as they would a perfectly cenetered one - then I say they should hit these boards or similar boards and educate themselves.

 

I have said these things many times. It is obvious they have not been read opr more probably, have been read and discarded as ridiculous. But when you ask me if I want "all restoration hidden behind a blue label"? And I have been saying the things above for so long? Well heck! I have to ask why you are even talking to me because it is obvious you have no idea of my ideas.

 

And sorry DiceX - I like your posts.

[DiceX]

Damn. Did I hit a nerve?

 

I didn't mean to make it look like you were the bad guy.

I'm just in a trouble making mood and am stiring up [!@#%^&^].

I'm not picking on you, personally.

Lately I've been questioning my buying habits and I'm in limbo on what I want to do with my collection.

I usually keep quiet and don't say anything and just got on a rant tonight.

 

Calm down. You made me feel bad for [!@#%^&^] you off.

[PovertyRow]

Calm down. You made me feel bad for [!@#%^&^] you off.

 

YES!!!!!!!!! It worked! Made you feel bad! (ok - )

 

Seriously, are we, as knowledgeable collectors, willing to let the hobby be reduced to the people who think a minus sign on NM- is a negative thing? (serious question there).

 

DO we expect someone to pick up a CGC book and read RPS Minor Color Touch and NOT know the book is restored? Hell - they have enough room - let the grade say 8.5RPS and in smaller type "Restored Pro Slight - minor color touch). Howver - the label has a TON of room for all manner of notations but it is not being used.

 

Maybe I am taking an elitist view - which would be REALY interesting since my idea of a great thing is a Fine pre-code horror book that I will never get CGC'd. But I really cannot discard the years of reading and learning I went through that gave me my own knowledge and percpetions about grades and restoration and then see a company like CGC "dumb things down" to the point that - and I know I am repeating but jeeze - removing the alpha grades because some people thought the minus sign was a bad thing? Or having to color a label Purple to announce it is restored because apparantly using the words "Restored" and then describing the restoration is not enough?

 

I honestly do not get it.

 

PS -

[LucyBop]

I don't know about these Purple Labels.... But I sent this golden Age Laugh book that was in great shape, and grrrr......

 

 

SOMEBODY STOLE LUCYS PAGE!!!!

 

 

 

 

is this a GLOD?

 

Green Label of Death???

 

 

Whoever you are........ GIVE LUCY BACK HER PAGE!

[PovertyRow]

I don't get that. I think this is the first time I have seen a Qualified VG/F. The few Qualifieds I have seen are listing the HIGH grade as if the defect didn't exist BUT they mention the defect and use a green label. We have seen the QUALIFIED GRADE listed as high (like VF or better) with the green label and then read something like "3-hole punch" etc?

 

I do not at ALL understand why this book would be QUALIFIED with missing page and get a VG/F. My assumption would be it was a VG/F BEFORE the missing page (the smallish scan certainly looks better than VG/F - maybe you can give us a big scan?) Was it early Qualified work by CGC? If you resubbed it would it get higher?

 

Lucy - I remember when you first hit these boards - a while that you made a thread about page counts and said you got a book back from CGC reflecting a missing page. Was this that book?

 

So - Lucy - can you give us a nice big scan of the book? Would be interesting to see why it would be VG/F.

[LucyBop]

Yeah, this is that same book....

 

This book I had in the 8.0 plus range...

 

I figured the grade went down because of the missing page...

 

 

I have to get a larger scan...

[LucyBop]

here is a large pic.... again, I had thought a 8.0 on it... and maybe even higher, this is a very nice Golden Age book...