May I ask a question?

[thedude]

But I do think comparing top versus top is a valid test of desirability for each book.

Another interesting comparison would be the total value of all copies of an issue. That might be even more embarrassingly in favor of SA.

Interesting. Kind of a market capitalization concept.

 

I've often wondered where the major Gold, Silver, and Bronze books would fall out if assessed on a market capitalization basis, but I have never taken the time to crunch the numbers.

 

That said, for illustrative purposes, looking at the CGC Census, and applying my personal estimated FMVs based on the various grades therein, here is how the market cap of CGC Universal Graded copies would fall out for arguably the most significant key books across each of the Gold, Silver and Bronze ages:

 

Action #1: $13,000,000

AF #15: $15,500,000

Hulk #181: $4,500,000

 

Others may apply slightly different FMVs, but unless I really messed something up while totaling the values in my head while viewing the census data for these three books, these figures should be in the general ballpark.

 

Very interesting! I like the ''market capitalization'' approach. It interesting to see that an SA key like AF#15 has a bigger ''capitalization'' value that the holy grail GA AC #1.

 

Dom

 

It's only interesting to the degree mentioned above, but when you factor in the THOUSANDS more copies of AF 15 vs Action 1, the fact that Action 1 can still hold its own is more impressive in my view

 

yes, not to mention what a single page of Action #1 goes for compared to loose pages of an AF 15, or just the cover, or coverless copies. I think Action #1 wins in all those categories.

[jdjunker]

Hmm... it seems to me that there have been a lot of apples to oranges comparisons made on this thread. There seems to be a growing concensus here that somehow SA books are as valuable as GA books, and it seems to me that we all know that to be completely false.

 

It is simple common sense. What books would you rather have in solid, collectible, plain ol' VG to VG+: a nice run of ASM 31-40, or a nice run of Action Comics 31-40? Which would bring the most if you sold it?

 

It may seem like there is less demand for Golden Age books, but that is because the scarce supply has already driven out the bottom end collectors. Can you even buy a Timely GA superhero book in GD or better for less than $100? Compare to SA Marvels--how many VG SA Marvels can you pick up for $5-10 each?

 

I guess my argument is it is the supply/demand that has driven up the Golden Age prices, so it appears that there is less demand simply because there are less collectors. And there are less collectors simply because they've been priced out of the market before they've even had a chance to get started.

 

[MrBedrock]

I guess my argument is it is the supply/demand that has driven up the Golden Age prices, so it appears that there is less demand simply because there are less collectors. And there are less collectors simply because they've been priced out of the market before they've even had a chance to get started.

And this makes complete sense. Especially in light of the obvious...that all of those collectors who are priced out of golden age have decided to go and spend their money on high grade silver at prices so high that, had they chosen gold in the first place they could have purchased complete golden age runs of most major titles in the vg range you are talking about. Yep, makes perfect sense.

[COI]

I guess my argument is it is the supply/demand that has driven up the Golden Age prices, so it appears that there is less demand simply because there are less collectors. And there are less collectors simply because they've been priced out of the market before they've even had a chance to get started.

And this makes complete sense. Especially in light of the obvious...that all of those collectors who are priced out of golden age have decided to go and spend their money on high grade silver at prices so high that, had they chosen gold in the first place they could have purchased complete golden age runs of most major titles in the vg range you are talking about. Yep, makes perfect sense.

 

There's a weird phenomenon among collectors where they choose what to collect based on what they can acquire in top grade.

[MrBedrock]

I guess my argument is it is the supply/demand that has driven up the Golden Age prices, so it appears that there is less demand simply because there are less collectors. And there are less collectors simply because they've been priced out of the market before they've even had a chance to get started.

And this makes complete sense. Especially in light of the obvious...that all of those collectors who are priced out of golden age have decided to go and spend their money on high grade silver at prices so high that, had they chosen gold in the first place they could have purchased complete golden age runs of most major titles in the vg range you are talking about. Yep, makes perfect sense.

 

There's a weird phenomenon among collectors where they choose what to collect based on what they can acquire in top grade.

There is also a weird phenomenon among collectors where they are convinced that golden age is more expensive than silver age, when the facts clearly show that not to be the case. Intuitively it should be, and for years it has been. But gold is no longer king. All hail Tom Brulato...the one "True Collector", the one "King of Comics".

[Hamlet]

Given the price appreciation of the highest grades compared to normal grades, it isn't really weird at all.

 

People flock to where the action is.

 

There's a weird phenomenon among collectors where they choose what to collect based on what they can acquire in top grade.

[COI]

Given the price appreciation of the highest grades compared to normal grades, it isn't really weird at all.

 

People flock to where the action is.

 

There's a weird phenomenon among collectors where they choose what to collect based on what they can acquire in top grade.

 

It is weird because it becomes about collecting a certain grade instead of collecting certain books. Even from an investment standpoint, if you're buying ASM 100-129 in 9.6/9.8, are you really going to be better off than using that money for a solid low grade AF 15 or ASM 1?

 

You can't underestimate the psychological elements at play when talking about demand. It may be as simple as people flock to high grade SA and BA because doing so makes them a "high grade collector", as opposed to being a "low grade collector" with a run of Timelys.

[COI]

I guess my argument is it is the supply/demand that has driven up the Golden Age prices, so it appears that there is less demand simply because there are less collectors. And there are less collectors simply because they've been priced out of the market before they've even had a chance to get started.

And this makes complete sense. Especially in light of the obvious...that all of those collectors who are priced out of golden age have decided to go and spend their money on high grade silver at prices so high that, had they chosen gold in the first place they could have purchased complete golden age runs of most major titles in the vg range you are talking about. Yep, makes perfect sense.

 

There's a weird phenomenon among collectors where they choose what to collect based on what they can acquire in top grade.

There is also a weird phenomenon among collectors where they are convinced that golden age is more expensive than silver age, when the facts clearly show that not to be the case. Intuitively it should be, and for years it has been. But gold is no longer king. All hail Tom Brulato...the one "True Collector", the one "King of Comics".

 

Collecting GA is less appealing on the surface because it requires more work to make progress, particularly if you have a very narrow focus/specific goal. GA is also daunting because the scarcity of the stuff requires one to "MANNUP" every now and then, or risk losing a shot at something truly special. So it is more expensive in the sense that you have to have resources available to drop when the opportunity strikes, as opposed to a SA ASM collector who can buy at his/her leisure, knowing full well that the stuff they want will always be available.

 

So GA is not the place to be if you're the type of collector who needs a regular fix in order to stay engaged with the hobby, and who is operating with limited resources, despite the fact that it may be cheaper than high grade silver.

[MrBedrock]

So it is more expensive in the sense that you have to have resources available to drop when the opportunity strikes, as opposed to a SA ASM collector who can buy at his/her leisure, knowing full well that the stuff they want will always be available.

This is an interesting thought because it is counter-intuitive to me.

Silver age collectors have the luxury of waiting until the right opportunity arises, (meaning, one would think with the supply available, looking for a better price.) Yet each subsequent opportunity costs a little more and a little more. Prices have now risen to the point that those opportunities start to look like necessities. Otherwise your opportunity to ever be able to afford those books may be missed.

Yet golden age collectors must decide now if that book is the one. If they let it pass they truly never may have the opportunity. Oddly enough when those rarities do come up for sale they seem to go for lower and lower prices in relation to the market as a whole, with a few obvious exceptions. I could bore you with tons of examples, but suffice to say that now is definitely the time to be buying obscure, once coveted golden age books. But if you wait you might get an even better deal next time.

[comicdonna]

 

Collecting GA is less appealing on the surface because it requires more work to make progress, particularly if you have a very narrow focus/specific goal. GA is also daunting because the scarcity of the stuff requires one to "MANNUP" every now and then, or risk losing a shot at something truly special. So it is more expensive in the sense that you have to have resources available to drop when the opportunity strikes, as opposed to a SA ASM collector who can buy at his/her leisure, knowing full well that the stuff they want will always be available.

 

So GA is not the place to be if you're the type of collector who needs a regular fix in order to stay engaged with the hobby, and who is operating with limited resources, despite the fact that it may be cheaper than high grade silver.

This is a really nice post.

[jimjum12]

So it is more expensive in the sense that you have to have resources available to drop when the opportunity strikes, as opposed to a SA ASM collector who can buy at his/her leisure, knowing full well that the stuff they want will always be available.

This is an interesting thought because it is counter-intuitive to me.

Silver age collectors have the luxury of waiting until the right opportunity arises, (meaning, one would think with the supply available, looking for a better price.) Yet each subsequent opportunity costs a little more and a little more. Prices have now risen to the point that those opportunities start to look like necessities. Otherwise your opportunity to ever be able to afford those books may be missed.

Yet golden age collectors must decide now if that book is the one. If they let it pass they truly never may have the opportunity. Oddly enough when those rarities do come up for sale they seem to go for lower and lower prices in relation to the market as a whole, with a few obvious exceptions. I could bore you with tons of examples, but suffice to say that now is definitely the time to be buying obscure, once coveted golden age books. But if you wait you might get an even better deal next time.

 

....for any lurking newbies, he was joking about the waiting part...GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[COI]

Silver age collectors have the luxury of waiting until the right opportunity arises, (meaning, one would think with the supply available, looking for a better price.) Yet each subsequent opportunity costs a little more and a little more. Prices have now risen to the point that those opportunities start to look like necessities. Otherwise your opportunity to ever be able to afford those books may be missed.

 

A lot of collectors, particularly those with less experience, or those who are just starting/getting back into amassing a collection, need that instant gratification. It's a lot easier to scratch that itch with SA. If you collect 9.6s, and 9.6s of a particular issue become expensive, you can move up or down the run and go after another issue, or you can buy a 9.2 or 9.4 with the intention of upgrading down the road, or with the hopes that prices might fall (especially with non-keys). Your collection is also more liquid, so you can sell books to pay for other books, while being confident that the books you sold can be replaced down the road.

 

In other words, SA affords you tons of options, and opportunities to satisfy your habit, and it's more accessible in that sense, even if that "accessibility" is perception only. That "perception" equates to a challenge or obstacle to collecting GA, and for someone who isn't too familiar with the GA market, and hasn't take the time to analyze both, GA is written off as being more expensive. This misconception is merely an expression of the fact that GA is harder to collect.

[adamstrange]

Silver age collectors have the luxury of waiting until the right opportunity arises, (meaning, one would think with the supply available, looking for a better price.) Yet each subsequent opportunity costs a little more and a little more. Prices have now risen to the point that those opportunities start to look like necessities. Otherwise your opportunity to ever be able to afford those books may be missed.

 

A lot of collectors, particularly those with less experience, or those who are just starting/getting back into amassing a collection, need that instant gratification. It's a lot easier to scratch that itch with SA. If you collect 9.6s, and 9.6s of a particular issue become expensive, you can move up or down the run and go after another issue, or you can buy a 9.2 or 9.4 with the intention of upgrading down the road, or with the hopes that prices might fall (especially with non-keys). Your collection is also more liquid, so you can sell books to pay for other books, while being confident that the books you sold can be replaced down the road.

 

In other words, SA affords you tons of options, and opportunities to satisfy your habit, and it's more accessible in that sense, even if that "accessibility" is perception only. That "perception" equates to a challenge or obstacle to collecting GA, and for someone who isn't too familiar with the GA market, and hasn't take the time to analyze both, GA is written off as being more expensive. This misconception is merely an expression of the fact that GA is harder to collect.

 

When a SA collector speaks of the difficulty of putting together a run of 9.4 Neal Adams X-men issues it reinforces your point. Were that same person to pursue GA they would, most likely, need to go after lower grade issues and it would probably take them longer or much, much longer depending on what particular series they went after.

[Ted Knight]

There hasn't been much of a discussion about the other variable of the value equation, which is quality (or content). Maybe I'm alone, but I collect GA comics because I think the quality of art, story and overall creative exploration is better than virtually all other comics that followed. Sure, I love Marvel and DC SA classics as much as the next guy, but I'm excited about most every GA comic (with the exception of the books, Mr. Bedrock mentioned earlier in this thread ) and each one I add to my collection feels so much more important than individual high grade SA books. I see this quality difference as timeless rather than a question of current trends or fashions.

 

Also, from a market perspective, everyone seems to already be in on SA high grade, prices have been going up steadily for some time now, traditionally, that's not where the values are found.

[adamstrange]

Also, from a market perspective, everyone seems to already be in on SA high grade, prices have been going up steadily for some time now, traditionally, that's not where the values are found.

I mostly switched over to pre-1960 comics in 1994 because I couldn't afford collecting everything I wanted as prices had escalated. Those near mint BA/SA Marvels and DCs I didn't collect would have done very well.

 

No unsustainable trend will continue forever but there are good reasons why people collect SA and why they might continue that focus.

[Ted Knight]

Also, from a market perspective, everyone seems to already be in on SA high grade, prices have been going up steadily for some time now, traditionally, that's not where the values are found.

I mostly switched over to pre-1960 comics in 1994 because I couldn't afford collecting everything I wanted as prices had escalated. Those near mint BA/SA Marvels and DCs I didn't collect would have done very well.

 

No unsustainable trend will continue forever but there are good reasons why people collect SA and why they might continue that focus.

 

Yeah, I remember doing the same thing around that time. Wish I had bought at least one or two of the Gaines File Copies when I got the first sale list from Russ. And yes, who new that SA would just keep going.

 

[Krusty007]

Also, from a market perspective, everyone seems to already be in on SA high grade, prices have been going up steadily for some time now, traditionally, that's not where the values are found.

 

That's what I think too.

[jimjum12]

Also, from a market perspective, everyone seems to already be in on SA high grade, prices have been going up steadily for some time now, traditionally, that's not where the values are found.

I mostly switched over to pre-1960 comics in 1994 because I couldn't afford collecting everything I wanted as prices had escalated. Those near mint BA/SA Marvels and DCs I didn't collect would have done very well.

 

No unsustainable trend will continue forever but there are good reasons why people collect SA and why they might continue that focus.

 

 

....and as much as it may defy logic, the 9.6 AF 15....or another copy that ever grades higher, may one day be the most valuable comic in the world....Spidey is THAT popular. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[jdjunker]

I guess my argument is it is the supply/demand that has driven up the Golden Age prices, so it appears that there is less demand simply because there are less collectors. And there are less collectors simply because they've been priced out of the market before they've even had a chance to get started.

And this makes complete sense. Especially in light of the obvious...that all of those collectors who are priced out of golden age have decided to go and spend their money on high grade silver at prices so high that, had they chosen gold in the first place they could have purchased complete golden age runs of most major titles in the vg range you are talking about. Yep, makes perfect sense.

 

 

Well, I'll certainly bow to your knowledge of the comic book market over mine, but this seems like more of the apples to oranges comparison.

 

History shows, and many dealers and experts have pounded into the collective consciousness, that the best dollar return on investment has been in the highest grades. It seems to me you need to compare grade to grade, not 5th best existing to 5th best existing. And across the board, comparable title, key/non key, etc, GA 9.4 (for example) out paces SA by a considerable margin.

 

There are probably 10s of thousands of Batman collectors out there who'd love to own a copy of Tec 31, but settle instead for the 1970s homage cover because they can't come close to affording a copy in whatever grade they choose to collect (i.e. readers or investment).

[MrBedrock]

And across the board, comparable title, key/non key, etc, GA 9.4 (for example) out paces SA by a considerable margin.

 

Superman 24 (arguably one of the four most famous Superman covers) 9.4 - $41,000 Highest and only one in grade.

Fantastic Four 5 (First Dr. Doom) - $55,000 Highest with seven copies in grade.

 

Superman 30 (First Mxyzptlk) 9.4 - Sold in 2006 for a little over $5000. Highest and only in grade.

Amazing Spider-man 28 (Black cover, 1st Molten Man) - $7100 - Second highest with sixteen copies as nice or better.

Fantastic Four 26 (Second part of the Avengers/FF crossover) 9.4 - Average sale $5100, with one copy selling for $12,000 - Third highest with twenty copies as nice or better including two at 9.8.