Comics You personally can't Understand Cost So Much

[RockMyAmadeus]

I think it's very safe to say that if the quality of books being published in the late 80's was the same as the 70's, I never would have gotten into the artform.

 

Thank God for Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman, Grant Morrison, and Frank Miller.

[COI]

Spoiler - long, effusive post ahead. Read at your peril!

 

 

Listen...I never read comics as a kid. Don't know why, but I didn't. The only comic I ever remember reading is Rom #47.

 

I didn't seriously get into comics until my 18th year. And I'm a fairly smart, fairly well educated guy. I do not have the emotional attachment to comics that a lot of fans do, because I wasn't 9 or 10 or 11 when I read them.

 

I am like that with movies. I saw Poseidon Adventure when I was 8 on some Saturday afternoon matinee thing on TV, and LOVED it. Thought it was the greatest movie ever made. And I was, and remain, a HUGE fan of action suspense films.

 

So, when I saw it on VHS at Costco around 1994, I bought it. Then I watched it.

It was awful. Just hideous.

 

And that sullied the memory for me, in a way. I don't do that anymore.

 

So I can understand how things may not hold up. I enjoyed Dark Phoenix, but it wasn't the earth shattering experience that most folks who read it as a kid thought. The dialogue is stunted and hideous, and painful to read. The PLOTTING is EXCELLENT, and the plot elements were fantastic...but as a work of literature, it falls very short.

 

Born Again has no such issues. I read it the first time when I was 19-20 or so. I have read it a couple of times since then. It has none of the issues that Claremont suffered dramatically from, and even Byrne to an extent.

 

It.

 

Is.

 

Perfection.

 

If you haven't read it...go ahead, do yourself a favor, and pick up the issues. They are CRIMINALLY cheap for what they are.

 

I completely agree. I have nothing to add other than I blame DD 228 being one of my earliest comics for my inability to read most vintage stuff.

 

Think how I feel.

 

As an adult, the very first comics I read were:

 

Born Again

Killing Joke

Animal Man (Grant Morrison)

Miracleman

Swamp Thing (Alan Moore)

Giffen and DeMatteis' Justice League

Batman Year One

Dark Knight Returns

Watchmen

Sandman

 

These were MY FIRST EXPOSURE TO COMICS.

 

I mean, really, what chance did the older stuff have...?

 

I haven't read the ones in bold. I should get on that. I assume you're talking Vertigo Sandman?

[Logan510]

Spoiler - long, effusive post ahead. Read at your peril!

 

 

Listen...I never read comics as a kid. Don't know why, but I didn't. The only comic I ever remember reading is Rom #47.

 

I didn't seriously get into comics until my 18th year. And I'm a fairly smart, fairly well educated guy. I do not have the emotional attachment to comics that a lot of fans do, because I wasn't 9 or 10 or 11 when I read them.

 

I am like that with movies. I saw Poseidon Adventure when I was 8 on some Saturday afternoon matinee thing on TV, and LOVED it. Thought it was the greatest movie ever made. And I was, and remain, a HUGE fan of action suspense films.

 

So, when I saw it on VHS at Costco around 1994, I bought it. Then I watched it.

It was awful. Just hideous.

 

And that sullied the memory for me, in a way. I don't do that anymore.

 

So I can understand how things may not hold up. I enjoyed Dark Phoenix, but it wasn't the earth shattering experience that most folks who read it as a kid thought. The dialogue is stunted and hideous, and painful to read. The PLOTTING is EXCELLENT, and the plot elements were fantastic...but as a work of literature, it falls very short.

 

Born Again has no such issues. I read it the first time when I was 19-20 or so. I have read it a couple of times since then. It has none of the issues that Claremont suffered dramatically from, and even Byrne to an extent.

 

It.

 

Is.

 

Perfection.

 

If you haven't read it...go ahead, do yourself a favor, and pick up the issues. They are CRIMINALLY cheap for what they are.

 

I completely agree. I have nothing to add other than I blame DD 228 being one of my earliest comics for my inability to read most vintage stuff.

 

Think how I feel.

 

As an adult, the very first comics I read were:

 

Born Again

Killing Joke

Animal Man (Grant Morrison)

Miracleman

Swamp Thing (Alan Moore)

Giffen and DeMatteis' Justice League

Batman Year One

Dark Knight Returns

Watchmen

Sandman

 

These were MY FIRST EXPOSURE TO COMICS.

 

I mean, really, what chance did the older stuff have...?

 

This really explains a lot...seriously

 

What, my obsession with the material published in the 1980's...?

 

 

That's a good part of it. I wonder what your 10 year old self would've thought reading that stuff.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Spoiler - long, effusive post ahead. Read at your peril!

 

 

Listen...I never read comics as a kid. Don't know why, but I didn't. The only comic I ever remember reading is Rom #47.

 

I didn't seriously get into comics until my 18th year. And I'm a fairly smart, fairly well educated guy. I do not have the emotional attachment to comics that a lot of fans do, because I wasn't 9 or 10 or 11 when I read them.

 

I am like that with movies. I saw Poseidon Adventure when I was 8 on some Saturday afternoon matinee thing on TV, and LOVED it. Thought it was the greatest movie ever made. And I was, and remain, a HUGE fan of action suspense films.

 

So, when I saw it on VHS at Costco around 1994, I bought it. Then I watched it.

It was awful. Just hideous.

 

And that sullied the memory for me, in a way. I don't do that anymore.

 

So I can understand how things may not hold up. I enjoyed Dark Phoenix, but it wasn't the earth shattering experience that most folks who read it as a kid thought. The dialogue is stunted and hideous, and painful to read. The PLOTTING is EXCELLENT, and the plot elements were fantastic...but as a work of literature, it falls very short.

 

Born Again has no such issues. I read it the first time when I was 19-20 or so. I have read it a couple of times since then. It has none of the issues that Claremont suffered dramatically from, and even Byrne to an extent.

 

It.

 

Is.

 

Perfection.

 

If you haven't read it...go ahead, do yourself a favor, and pick up the issues. They are CRIMINALLY cheap for what they are.

 

I completely agree. I have nothing to add other than I blame DD 228 being one of my earliest comics for my inability to read most vintage stuff.

 

Think how I feel.

 

As an adult, the very first comics I read were:

 

Born Again

Killing Joke

Animal Man (Grant Morrison)

Miracleman

Swamp Thing (Alan Moore)

Giffen and DeMatteis' Justice League

Batman Year One

Dark Knight Returns

Watchmen

Sandman

 

These were MY FIRST EXPOSURE TO COMICS.

 

I mean, really, what chance did the older stuff have...?

 

I haven't read the ones in bold. I should get on that. I assume you're talking Vertigo Sandman?

 

Yup yup.

 

Although, Marvel Zombie that you are, you may not like them.

 

I recommend Justice League first.

 

"One punch. ONE PUNCH! And I MISSED it!"

[Prince Namor]

Think how I feel.

As an adult, the very first comics I read were:

Born Again

Killing Joke

Animal Man (Grant Morrison)

Miracleman

Swamp Thing (Alan Moore)

Giffen and DeMatteis' Justice League

Batman Year One

Dark Knight Returns

Watchmen

Sandman

These were MY FIRST EXPOSURE TO COMICS.

 

I mean, really, what chance did the older stuff have...?

 

Or anything after.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Spoiler - long, effusive post ahead. Read at your peril!

 

 

Listen...I never read comics as a kid. Don't know why, but I didn't. The only comic I ever remember reading is Rom #47.

 

I didn't seriously get into comics until my 18th year. And I'm a fairly smart, fairly well educated guy. I do not have the emotional attachment to comics that a lot of fans do, because I wasn't 9 or 10 or 11 when I read them.

 

I am like that with movies. I saw Poseidon Adventure when I was 8 on some Saturday afternoon matinee thing on TV, and LOVED it. Thought it was the greatest movie ever made. And I was, and remain, a HUGE fan of action suspense films.

 

So, when I saw it on VHS at Costco around 1994, I bought it. Then I watched it.

It was awful. Just hideous.

 

And that sullied the memory for me, in a way. I don't do that anymore.

 

So I can understand how things may not hold up. I enjoyed Dark Phoenix, but it wasn't the earth shattering experience that most folks who read it as a kid thought. The dialogue is stunted and hideous, and painful to read. The PLOTTING is EXCELLENT, and the plot elements were fantastic...but as a work of literature, it falls very short.

 

Born Again has no such issues. I read it the first time when I was 19-20 or so. I have read it a couple of times since then. It has none of the issues that Claremont suffered dramatically from, and even Byrne to an extent.

 

It.

 

Is.

 

Perfection.

 

If you haven't read it...go ahead, do yourself a favor, and pick up the issues. They are CRIMINALLY cheap for what they are.

 

I completely agree. I have nothing to add other than I blame DD 228 being one of my earliest comics for my inability to read most vintage stuff.

 

Think how I feel.

 

As an adult, the very first comics I read were:

 

Born Again

Killing Joke

Animal Man (Grant Morrison)

Miracleman

Swamp Thing (Alan Moore)

Giffen and DeMatteis' Justice League

Batman Year One

Dark Knight Returns

Watchmen

Sandman

 

These were MY FIRST EXPOSURE TO COMICS.

 

I mean, really, what chance did the older stuff have...?

 

This really explains a lot...seriously

 

What, my obsession with the material published in the 1980's...?

 

 

That's a good part of it. I wonder what your 10 year old self would've thought reading that stuff.

 

My obsession at 10 years old was with the Oz books and LOTR. Oh, and Raiders of the Lost Ark.

 

 

The Oz books still hold up tremendously well.

[COI]

Although, Marvel Zombie that you are, you may not like them.

 

You're mistaken. I'm mostly a Spidey Zombie; Batman is probably my second favorite character of all-time.

[This is water]

Spoiler - long, effusive post ahead. Read at your peril!

 

 

Listen...I never read comics as a kid. Don't know why, but I didn't. The only comic I ever remember reading is Rom #47.

 

I didn't seriously get into comics until my 18th year. And I'm a fairly smart, fairly well educated guy. I do not have the emotional attachment to comics that a lot of fans do, because I wasn't 9 or 10 or 11 when I read them.

 

I am like that with movies. I saw Poseidon Adventure when I was 8 on some Saturday afternoon matinee thing on TV, and LOVED it. Thought it was the greatest movie ever made. And I was, and remain, a HUGE fan of action suspense films.

 

So, when I saw it on VHS at Costco around 1994, I bought it. Then I watched it.

It was awful. Just hideous.

 

And that sullied the memory for me, in a way. I don't do that anymore.

 

So I can understand how things may not hold up. I enjoyed Dark Phoenix, but it wasn't the earth shattering experience that most folks who read it as a kid thought. The dialogue is stunted and hideous, and painful to read. The PLOTTING is EXCELLENT, and the plot elements were fantastic...but as a work of literature, it falls very short.

 

Born Again has no such issues. I read it the first time when I was 19-20 or so. I have read it a couple of times since then. It has none of the issues that Claremont suffered dramatically from, and even Byrne to an extent.

 

It.

 

Is.

 

Perfection.

 

If you haven't read it...go ahead, do yourself a favor, and pick up the issues. They are CRIMINALLY cheap for what they are.

 

I completely agree. I have nothing to add other than I blame DD 228 being one of my earliest comics for my inability to read most vintage stuff.

 

Think how I feel.

 

As an adult, the very first comics I read were:

 

Born Again

Killing Joke

Animal Man (Grant Morrison)

Miracleman

Swamp Thing (Alan Moore)

Giffen and DeMatteis' Justice League

Batman Year One

Dark Knight Returns

Watchmen

Sandman

 

These were MY FIRST EXPOSURE TO COMICS.

 

I mean, really, what chance did the older stuff have...?

 

I haven't read the ones in bold. I should get on that. I assume you're talking Vertigo Sandman?

 

really? Those are what comic should be.

 

Although, I've never read Animal Man. Anyone care to explain what is the premise?

[RockMyAmadeus]

Oh, and nobody really cares that DD #168 is Frank Miller's first writing.

 

They really don't.

 

The book is valuable because it introduces Elektra, who was about the most kickass female character introduction in the entire Marvel U up to that point.

 

Where Frank Miller's writing starts to matter is Ronin, then DD #227-233, then Dark Knight. Then Year One. Then Sin City. Then 300.

 

And that's about it.

 

They might not care now ( though I doubt that ), but at the time it came out it was a big deal.

 

See, when I read the fan and professional literature of the time, I just don't see any reference to "Miller's writing!" being any reason to pick the books up. Sure, by the time #168 had come out, #158 had been out for over a year and a half, and people were really digging the art...but there's nothing I see about people reacting to his writing until Ronin. DD #181 was a big deal, but that was because Elektra had proved to be so very, very popular, and back then, death was still a big deal (having just killed off Phoenix not a year earlier.)

 

Remember, it wasn't until Alan Moore and Swamp Thing that anything was broken out because of the writer. Sure, artist, absolutely, starting with Neal Adams. But for writing, it would take the mid 80's for that to happen, long after Miller's first stint.

 

 

[COI]

Spoiler - long, effusive post ahead. Read at your peril!

 

 

Listen...I never read comics as a kid. Don't know why, but I didn't. The only comic I ever remember reading is Rom #47.

 

I didn't seriously get into comics until my 18th year. And I'm a fairly smart, fairly well educated guy. I do not have the emotional attachment to comics that a lot of fans do, because I wasn't 9 or 10 or 11 when I read them.

 

I am like that with movies. I saw Poseidon Adventure when I was 8 on some Saturday afternoon matinee thing on TV, and LOVED it. Thought it was the greatest movie ever made. And I was, and remain, a HUGE fan of action suspense films.

 

So, when I saw it on VHS at Costco around 1994, I bought it. Then I watched it.

It was awful. Just hideous.

 

And that sullied the memory for me, in a way. I don't do that anymore.

 

So I can understand how things may not hold up. I enjoyed Dark Phoenix, but it wasn't the earth shattering experience that most folks who read it as a kid thought. The dialogue is stunted and hideous, and painful to read. The PLOTTING is EXCELLENT, and the plot elements were fantastic...but as a work of literature, it falls very short.

 

Born Again has no such issues. I read it the first time when I was 19-20 or so. I have read it a couple of times since then. It has none of the issues that Claremont suffered dramatically from, and even Byrne to an extent.

 

It.

 

Is.

 

Perfection.

 

If you haven't read it...go ahead, do yourself a favor, and pick up the issues. They are CRIMINALLY cheap for what they are.

 

I completely agree. I have nothing to add other than I blame DD 228 being one of my earliest comics for my inability to read most vintage stuff.

 

Think how I feel.

 

As an adult, the very first comics I read were:

 

Born Again

Killing Joke

Animal Man (Grant Morrison)

Miracleman

Swamp Thing (Alan Moore)

Giffen and DeMatteis' Justice League

Batman Year One

Dark Knight Returns

Watchmen

Sandman

 

These were MY FIRST EXPOSURE TO COMICS.

 

I mean, really, what chance did the older stuff have...?

 

I haven't read the ones in bold. I should get on that. I assume you're talking Vertigo Sandman?

 

really? Those are what comic should be.

 

Although, I've never read Animal Man. Anyone care to explain what is the premise?

 

I haven't read many comics. I haven't owned many comics. I don't know why I'm here.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Although, Marvel Zombie that you are, you may not like them.

 

You're mistaken. I'm mostly a Spidey Zombie; Batman is probably my second favorite character of all-time.

 

See? You should really post more, I know almost nothing about you.

 

Is it my turn with the remote...?

[RockMyAmadeus]

Spoiler - long, effusive post ahead. Read at your peril!

 

 

Listen...I never read comics as a kid. Don't know why, but I didn't. The only comic I ever remember reading is Rom #47.

 

I didn't seriously get into comics until my 18th year. And I'm a fairly smart, fairly well educated guy. I do not have the emotional attachment to comics that a lot of fans do, because I wasn't 9 or 10 or 11 when I read them.

 

I am like that with movies. I saw Poseidon Adventure when I was 8 on some Saturday afternoon matinee thing on TV, and LOVED it. Thought it was the greatest movie ever made. And I was, and remain, a HUGE fan of action suspense films.

 

So, when I saw it on VHS at Costco around 1994, I bought it. Then I watched it.

It was awful. Just hideous.

 

And that sullied the memory for me, in a way. I don't do that anymore.

 

So I can understand how things may not hold up. I enjoyed Dark Phoenix, but it wasn't the earth shattering experience that most folks who read it as a kid thought. The dialogue is stunted and hideous, and painful to read. The PLOTTING is EXCELLENT, and the plot elements were fantastic...but as a work of literature, it falls very short.

 

Born Again has no such issues. I read it the first time when I was 19-20 or so. I have read it a couple of times since then. It has none of the issues that Claremont suffered dramatically from, and even Byrne to an extent.

 

It.

 

Is.

 

Perfection.

 

If you haven't read it...go ahead, do yourself a favor, and pick up the issues. They are CRIMINALLY cheap for what they are.

 

I completely agree. I have nothing to add other than I blame DD 228 being one of my earliest comics for my inability to read most vintage stuff.

 

Think how I feel.

 

As an adult, the very first comics I read were:

 

Born Again

Killing Joke

Animal Man (Grant Morrison)

Miracleman

Swamp Thing (Alan Moore)

Giffen and DeMatteis' Justice League

Batman Year One

Dark Knight Returns

Watchmen

Sandman

 

These were MY FIRST EXPOSURE TO COMICS.

 

I mean, really, what chance did the older stuff have...?

 

I haven't read the ones in bold. I should get on that. I assume you're talking Vertigo Sandman?

 

really? Those are what comic should be.

 

Although, I've never read Animal Man. Anyone care to explain what is the premise?

 

I haven't read many comics. I haven't owned many comics. I don't know why I'm here.

 

Oh please.

 

You may not have owned many comics, but the ones you HAVE owned are trés magnifique!

 

MWAH!

[RockMyAmadeus]

Given a 40 year history of high grade price appreciation far outstripping low and mid grade, it was inevitable that collectors would start paying super-premiums for "best copies" once they could be somewhat quantified ( CGC), but I have to agree with others, that the multiples paid for 9.8/9.9/10.0 ( whatever is currently "highest grade") copies of books over readily available 9.4/9.6 copies are insane. Especially when one considers that the price ratios between an 8.0 and 9.6 copy of a Golden Age book is likely to be far less than that between a 9.6 and 9.9 copper/modern semi-key.

 

Random thoughts on specific books.

 

I get the interest in TTA #27 - Ant Man ay be 4th tier - but he is the second Marvel SA character to appear - TTA #27 coming out the same month as FF #2, and the book has been a key for SA Marvel collectors since the beginning. I don't collect SA Marvels, but if I did, this book would interest me more than say TOS 39 ( never was an Iron Man fan).

 

Adventure #210 - first Krypto. I don't really get this either. I'd think Action 252 ( 1st Supergirl) would have more interest, and even if easier to find, would command a higher price than Adventure 210, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

Iron Fist #14 - seemed overvalued even when anyone cared about the character - its initial rise in value was all because Sabretooth was supposed to be Wolverine's dad, which apparently is not the case. Whoop-dee-doo.

 

I can appreciate the interest in esoteric Bronze like Night Nurse, that were little collected by comic geeks when they came out. I look at this stuff the same way I see price variants - part of the interest is that they are harder to find in any decent condition than most Bronze Age books, and that they are esoteric and not something the typical "fan boy" cares about. Prices may seem goofy compared to random issues of more broadly collected titles, but generally less than more abundant third tier keys from the same era.

 

Sorry. Didn't want RJPB's post to get lost in all our emoting about Born Again.

[Logan510]

Oh, and nobody really cares that DD #168 is Frank Miller's first writing.

 

They really don't.

 

The book is valuable because it introduces Elektra, who was about the most kickass female character introduction in the entire Marvel U up to that point.

 

Where Frank Miller's writing starts to matter is Ronin, then DD #227-233, then Dark Knight. Then Year One. Then Sin City. Then 300.

 

And that's about it.

 

They might not care now ( though I doubt that ), but at the time it came out it was a big deal.

 

See, when I read the fan and professional literature of the time, I just don't see any reference to "Miller's writing!" being any reason to pick the books up. Sure, by the time #168 had come out, #158 had been out for over a year and a half, and people were really digging the art...but there's nothing I see about people reacting to his writing until Ronin. DD #181 was a big deal, but that was because Elektra had proved to be so very, very popular, and back then, death was still a big deal (having just killed off Phoenix not a year earlier.)

 

Remember, it wasn't until Alan Moore and Swamp Thing that anything was broken out because of the writer. Sure, artist, absolutely, starting with Neal Adams. But for writing, it would take the mid 80's for that to happen, long after Miller's first stint.

 

 

I was reading them as they came out. I can say from first hand experience that there was definitely a big buzz going on about his writing ( as well as his art ). He's probably the first guy in the modern age to get such a buzz being a writer / artist as well.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Oh, and nobody really cares that DD #168 is Frank Miller's first writing.

 

They really don't.

 

The book is valuable because it introduces Elektra, who was about the most kickass female character introduction in the entire Marvel U up to that point.

 

Where Frank Miller's writing starts to matter is Ronin, then DD #227-233, then Dark Knight. Then Year One. Then Sin City. Then 300.

 

And that's about it.

 

They might not care now ( though I doubt that ), but at the time it came out it was a big deal.

 

See, when I read the fan and professional literature of the time, I just don't see any reference to "Miller's writing!" being any reason to pick the books up. Sure, by the time #168 had come out, #158 had been out for over a year and a half, and people were really digging the art...but there's nothing I see about people reacting to his writing until Ronin. DD #181 was a big deal, but that was because Elektra had proved to be so very, very popular, and back then, death was still a big deal (having just killed off Phoenix not a year earlier.)

 

Remember, it wasn't until Alan Moore and Swamp Thing that anything was broken out because of the writer. Sure, artist, absolutely, starting with Neal Adams. But for writing, it would take the mid 80's for that to happen, long after Miller's first stint.

 

 

I was reading them a they came out. I can say from first hand experience that there was definitely a big buzz going on about his writing ( as well as his art ). He's probably the first guy in the modern age to get such a buzz being a writer / artist as well.

 

 

Byrne was on FF 6 months later...there was not a bigger buzz about anyone at the time than Byrne being on FF. Byrne was THE hottest thing since sliced bread in 1981, and the publications of the time are all unanimous in their shouting of this fact. In fact, Byrne being on FF was a much, much bigger deal in its day than McFarlane being on Spidey (and THAT was huge, too.)

 

Miller hadn't written anything up to that point, and DD continued to be a b-monthly book until 171, the same month FF #232 came out, so it's not as if he had a great body of work with which to compare (having written all of 3 comics prior to this.)

 

If there was a buzz about Miller, it certainly wasn't until later in the run, say around #176-177 or so, probably culminating with #181, which was a monster hit for the title. But there really just isn't anything in the record about Miller's writing being the key selling point.

[COI]

Spoiler - long, effusive post ahead. Read at your peril!

 

 

Listen...I never read comics as a kid. Don't know why, but I didn't. The only comic I ever remember reading is Rom #47.

 

I didn't seriously get into comics until my 18th year. And I'm a fairly smart, fairly well educated guy. I do not have the emotional attachment to comics that a lot of fans do, because I wasn't 9 or 10 or 11 when I read them.

 

I am like that with movies. I saw Poseidon Adventure when I was 8 on some Saturday afternoon matinee thing on TV, and LOVED it. Thought it was the greatest movie ever made. And I was, and remain, a HUGE fan of action suspense films.

 

So, when I saw it on VHS at Costco around 1994, I bought it. Then I watched it.

It was awful. Just hideous.

 

And that sullied the memory for me, in a way. I don't do that anymore.

 

So I can understand how things may not hold up. I enjoyed Dark Phoenix, but it wasn't the earth shattering experience that most folks who read it as a kid thought. The dialogue is stunted and hideous, and painful to read. The PLOTTING is EXCELLENT, and the plot elements were fantastic...but as a work of literature, it falls very short.

 

Born Again has no such issues. I read it the first time when I was 19-20 or so. I have read it a couple of times since then. It has none of the issues that Claremont suffered dramatically from, and even Byrne to an extent.

 

It.

 

Is.

 

Perfection.

 

If you haven't read it...go ahead, do yourself a favor, and pick up the issues. They are CRIMINALLY cheap for what they are.

 

I completely agree. I have nothing to add other than I blame DD 228 being one of my earliest comics for my inability to read most vintage stuff.

 

Think how I feel.

 

As an adult, the very first comics I read were:

 

Born Again

Killing Joke

Animal Man (Grant Morrison)

Miracleman

Swamp Thing (Alan Moore)

Giffen and DeMatteis' Justice League

Batman Year One

Dark Knight Returns

Watchmen

Sandman

 

These were MY FIRST EXPOSURE TO COMICS.

 

I mean, really, what chance did the older stuff have...?

 

I haven't read the ones in bold. I should get on that. I assume you're talking Vertigo Sandman?

 

really? Those are what comic should be.

 

Although, I've never read Animal Man. Anyone care to explain what is the premise?

 

I haven't read many comics. I haven't owned many comics. I don't know why I'm here.

 

Oh please.

 

You may not have owned many comics, but the ones you HAVE owned are trés magnifique!

 

MWAH!

 

My current favorite pass-time is video games, and I own many of those. The problem is, those message boards are so retarded they make this place feel like a TED conference.

[Prince Namor]

One of the other things that I find so wonderful about the 'Born Again' storyline is that it is told in very much the traditional comic storytelling method.

It's very straight forward in it's approach to telling the story.

 

But it's the WAY Miller and Mazz (oh geez Mazz SO nailed every panel in this run) tell this story. It is perfection. Yes, perfection is the right word.

 

Moore and Gaiman stepped outside of much of that traditional comic story method and created some fantastic work, but Miller and Mazz did it in this story arc within the structure that all comic fans can recognize.

And I find that to be really cool.

 

To me it's still tied with ASM 121-122 just because of the magnitude and impact of what happened there; but as far as actual story craft, 'Born Again' is shining example of how great comics can be.

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

One of the other things that I find so wonderful about the 'Born Again' storyline is that it is told in very much the traditional comic storytelling method.

It's very straight forward in it's approach to telling the story.

 

But it's the WAY Miller and Mazz (oh geez Mazz SO nailed every panel in this run) tell this story. It is perfection. Yes, perfection is the right word.

 

Moore and Gaiman stepped outside of much of that traditional comic story method and created some fantastic work, but Miller and Mazz did it in this story arc within the structure that all comic fans can recognize.

And I find that to be really cool.

 

To me it's still tied with ASM 121-122 just because of the magnitude and impact of what happened there; but as far as actual story craft, 'Born Again' is shining example of how great comics can be.

 

Agree, agree, agree. Cannot agree more.

[This is water]

Spoiler - long, effusive post ahead. Read at your peril!

 

 

Listen...I never read comics as a kid. Don't know why, but I didn't. The only comic I ever remember reading is Rom #47.

 

I didn't seriously get into comics until my 18th year. And I'm a fairly smart, fairly well educated guy. I do not have the emotional attachment to comics that a lot of fans do, because I wasn't 9 or 10 or 11 when I read them.

 

I am like that with movies. I saw Poseidon Adventure when I was 8 on some Saturday afternoon matinee thing on TV, and LOVED it. Thought it was the greatest movie ever made. And I was, and remain, a HUGE fan of action suspense films.

 

So, when I saw it on VHS at Costco around 1994, I bought it. Then I watched it.

It was awful. Just hideous.

 

And that sullied the memory for me, in a way. I don't do that anymore.

 

So I can understand how things may not hold up. I enjoyed Dark Phoenix, but it wasn't the earth shattering experience that most folks who read it as a kid thought. The dialogue is stunted and hideous, and painful to read. The PLOTTING is EXCELLENT, and the plot elements were fantastic...but as a work of literature, it falls very short.

 

Born Again has no such issues. I read it the first time when I was 19-20 or so. I have read it a couple of times since then. It has none of the issues that Claremont suffered dramatically from, and even Byrne to an extent.

 

It.

 

Is.

 

Perfection.

 

If you haven't read it...go ahead, do yourself a favor, and pick up the issues. They are CRIMINALLY cheap for what they are.

 

I completely agree. I have nothing to add other than I blame DD 228 being one of my earliest comics for my inability to read most vintage stuff.

 

Think how I feel.

 

As an adult, the very first comics I read were:

 

Born Again

Killing Joke

Animal Man (Grant Morrison)

Miracleman

Swamp Thing (Alan Moore)

Giffen and DeMatteis' Justice League

Batman Year One

Dark Knight Returns

Watchmen

Sandman

 

These were MY FIRST EXPOSURE TO COMICS.

 

I mean, really, what chance did the older stuff have...?

 

I haven't read the ones in bold. I should get on that. I assume you're talking Vertigo Sandman?

 

really? Those are what comic should be.

 

Although, I've never read Animal Man. Anyone care to explain what is the premise?

 

I haven't read many comics. I haven't owned many comics. I don't know why I'm here.

 

Oh please.

 

You may not have owned many comics, but the ones you HAVE owned are trés magnifique!

 

MWAH!

 

My current favorite pass-time is video games, and I own many of those. The problem is, those message boards are so retarded they make this place feel like a TED conference.

 

Are you in utter anticipation for the release of Arkham city?

[mikenyc]

Not that it matters, but in all sincerity, when RMA is talking comics I'm always impressed. Other topics, not so much.

 

Next time we bicker, I'll ask a comic question to throw you off your game. ::

 

Sorry continue.