"Prototype" issues?

[electricprune]

With the wealth of knowledge here, I know most will have opinions. I'm hoping a few have actual facts.

 

What does everyone think about some of the older "prototype" issues? To me, most of them just seem like b.s. to increase the value of a book. Did someone at Marvel go back to Tales of Suspense 9 or 16 and decide to come up with Iron Man for issue 39? When issues 9 and 16 came out, did KMarvel hope to test them to develope something different in the near future?

 

Journey into Mystery 66? I can't see someone going back to that and coming up with The Hulk. Or, did people write in when it came out and suggest it was a cool character, but make him stronger, smaller, and lose the hair/fur? Oh, and makie his arms bigger too.

 

Has anyone within Marvel ever said these actually were prototypes they wanted to base future characters on? Or that someone went back and based a popular character on some of the previous ones?

 

I can see the Rocky/Sgt. Rock thing. I know there are many others that I'm not familiar with. What do you guys think?

[shadroch]

I think its really interesting how close Stan and Company came to creating things without realizing it. did Atlas comics even have letter pages? If not, I can't imagine too many people wrote in.

[electricprune]

I think its really interesting how close Stan and Company came to creating things without realizing it. did Atlas comics even have letter pages? If not, I can't imagine too many people wrote in.

 

Good point. I'm not sure either. I'm sure they got some word of mouth from sellers, etc.

[sckao]

Stan has always said he based the Hulk on Frankenstein and Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde with some Golem details thrown in...

 

It's not crazy or nuts to believe that other writers didn't also draw from other fictional stories or cultural legends.

 

 

[DiceX]

There was some book that Stan stole Thor from that was printed years before his first appearance for Marvel.

I don't remember the book or issue, but someone posted scans of the actual story.

Hard for Stan to deny it.

 

 

[HeyMoe]

Does Overstreet still note JIM #73 as the "Reverse Spider-Man Prototype"?

That one made no bloody sense!

[rjpb]

One of the definitions of a prototype ( according to Webster's): "An individual that exhibits the essential features of a later type".

 

Some of the pre-hero "prototypes" clearly fit that definition, but others merely share a name or have a vague similarity that falls short of being an "essential feature" .

 

Prototype is an abused description, but undoubtedly, the roots of the Marvel Universe are found within many of the characters from the pre-hero era. Or maybe it's the groots of the Marvel Universe.

[rodan57]

What does everyone think about some of the older "prototype" issues? To me, most of them just seem like b.s. to increase the value of a book. Did someone at Marvel go back to Tales of Suspense 9 or 16 and decide to come up with Iron Man for issue 39? When issues 9 and 16 came out, did KMarvel hope to test them to develope something different in the near future?

 

Journey into Mystery 66? I can't see someone going back to that and coming up with The Hulk. Or, did people write in when it came out and suggest it was a cool character, but make him stronger, smaller, and lose the hair/fur? Oh, and makie his arms bigger too.

 

Has anyone within Marvel ever said these actually were prototypes they wanted to base future characters on? Or that someone went back and based a popular character on some of the previous ones?

 

I can see the Rocky/Sgt. Rock thing. I know there are many others that I'm not familiar with. What do you guys think?

 

I think you're right. The prototype argument is also unsustainably self-referential if limited to comic books.

 

How about ...

 

Iron Man is Ivanhoe with better weapons.

 

The Hulk is Jekyll and Hyde with a touch of Shelley thrown in for good measure.

 

Thor's a Viking myth with a secret identity (the elusive Scarlet Pimpernel -- "those Frenchies seek him everywhere!")

 

 

 

 

[Ken Aldred]

There was some book that Stan stole Thor from that was printed years before his first appearance for Marvel.

I don't remember the book or issue, but someone posted scans of the actual story.

Hard for Stan to deny it.

 

I'm not sure if this is the one you mean...

 

'The Magic Hammer'

[Ogami]

If you don't think the guys at Atlas/Timely/Marvel were reusing and frankensteining bits and pieces of stories, art and characters together in a hodge podge fashion on the cheap and often on the fly, you weren't reading Atlas/Timely/Marvels, circa 1950's-1961.

 

 

And I say this as a fan of the books, the creators, and the company.

[DiceX]

There was some book that Stan stole Thor from that was printed years before his first appearance for Marvel.

I don't remember the book or issue, but someone posted scans of the actual story.

Hard for Stan to deny it.

 

I'm not sure if this is the one you mean...

 

'The Magic Hammer'

 

That's it.

 

 

[JazzMan]

Prototype is just another way to get a notation on a book. It was just hapenstance in my humble opinion that names that didn't work with a character/story worked the second time around.

[Brian48]

I'm not sure what the original question is, but I like "prototype" books. This is from one of the few non-Batman books I own.

 

 

I don't think there's much guessing who this character wounded up becoming

 

[MedicAR]

If you don't think the guys at Atlas/Timely/Marvel were reusing and frankensteining bits and pieces of stories, art and characters together in a hodge podge fashion on the cheap and often on the fly, you weren't reading Atlas/Timely/Marvels, circa 1950's-1961.

 

 

And I say this as a fan of the books, the creators, and the company.

 

Honestly, how could they not go back and reuse/rehash some of the material? They had to put together a few books every month and there's only so much they could do before they started treading on ground they had already covered.

 

As far as the prototypes, I think they're a fun notation and I can see how they might have influenced characters down the line but I think it's a stretch to say that they went back and built on older books/characters. I think it's more likely that they were trying to cover up the fact they were reusing material than actually building on it.

[MedicAR]

There was some book that Stan stole Thor from that was printed years before his first appearance for Marvel.

I don't remember the book or issue, but someone posted scans of the actual story.

Hard for Stan to deny it.

 

I'm not sure if this is the one you mean...

 

'The Magic Hammer'

 

Now THAT'S a prototype!

 

Thanks for posting!

[MedicAR]

I'm not sure what the original question is, but I like "prototype" books. This is from one of the few non-Batman books I own.

 

 

I don't think there's much guessing who this character wounded up becoming

 

Please, everyone, keep the laughter to a minimum. What book is this from?

[Ken Aldred]

If you don't think the guys at Atlas/Timely/Marvel were reusing and frankensteining bits and pieces of stories, art and characters together in a hodge podge fashion on the cheap and often on the fly, you weren't reading Atlas/Timely/Marvels, circa 1950's-1961.

 

 

And I say this as a fan of the books, the creators, and the company.

 

Honestly, how could they not go back and reuse/rehash some of the material? They had to put together a few books every month and there's only so much they could do before they started treading on ground they had already covered.

 

As far as the prototypes, I think they're a fun notation and I can see how they might have influenced characters down the line but I think it's a stretch to say that they went back and built on older books/characters. I think it's more likely that they were trying to cover up the fact they were reusing material than actually building on it.

 

I too think it was just about pragmatics - meeting deadlines, easing the workload, cutting corners, rather than intending there to be any actual interconnection between a monster and later super-hero character. Many of the prototype claims seem a bit flimsy and desperate to me.

 

I'm more interested in the visual storytelling techniques that Kirby experimented with, such as the prototype Ben Grimm to Thing transformation sequence.

[DiceX]

I'm not sure what the original question is, but I like "prototype" books. This is from one of the few non-Batman books I own.

 

 

I don't think there's much guessing who this character wounded up becoming

 

Please, everyone, keep the laughter to a minimum. What book is this from?

 

 

 

[DiceX]

 

 

 

[Ken Aldred]

I'm not sure what the original question is, but I like "prototype" books. This is from one of the few non-Batman books I own.

 

 

I don't think there's much guessing who this character wounded up becoming

 

Please, everyone, keep the laughter to a minimum. What book is this from?

 

 

I've never read this one, but for a bit of fun I'll take a shot at it being 'Starr the Slayer', the Conan prototype from Chamber of Darkness 4.

 

It was mentioned, a couple of years ago, in some reviews about the Richard Corben mini-series, but I had no interest in backtracking.