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Was Stan Lee the Steve Jobs of Marvel?

Started by homerwannabee,

41 posts in this topic

Cat-Man_America

Cat-Man_America

Posted
Posted
I notice a big parellel in the lives of both Stan Lee, and Steve Jobs in their respective fields.

 

Stan Lee was the head head editor of Marvel.

Steve Jobs was the head of Apple.

Stan Lee was more of the visionary who knew what would work, and what would not work.

Steve Jobs was more of a visionary who knew what would work, and what would not work.

 

Stan Lee was a former comic artist, and this insight helped him lead Marvel.

Steve Jobs was a former programmer, and this insight helped him lead Apple.

 

Stan Lee had Kirby who was a brilliant artist with his own ideas that Stan was able to use, and exploit to a larger market.

 

Steve Jobs had Wozniak who was brilliant engineer with his own ideas that Steve was able to expoit to a larger market.

 

It is argued that Kirby was the real driving force behind Marvel.

It is argued that Wozniak was the real driving force behind Apple.

 

Stan Lee became an iconic figure that has shined as almost as bright as his characters.

Steve Jobs became an iconic figure that has shined as almost as bright as the products he put out to market.

 

All in all I think Stan Lee, and Steve Jobs are both one in the same. Both were brilliant marketers, and knew what to put out, and to not put out.

 

hm I highly recommend that you read Joe Simon's recent book My Life In Comics, published in late June of this year,,,

 

61Jb2CQJDcL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg

 

http://www.amazon.com/Joe-Simon-Comics-Illustrated-Autobiography/dp/1845769309

 

Everything I've read in Simon's book rings true, and the revelations are neither sensational nor mean spirited.

 

Without question Lee and Jobs have come to symbolize their respective industries, but that's where the comparisons end.

 

For instance, Stan Lee's teenaged introduction to comics and career path was made possible through nepotism and luck. Contrast that with Steve Jobs' achievements as a visionary and entrepreneur.

 

Drawing attention to the obvious differences between Jobs' and Lee's background doesn't take anything away from either man's achievements, but looking at their accomplishments objectively, there are several orders of magnitude between them.

 

Undoubtably, Lee is a superb marketer, but his venerable status is proof positive that if one lives long enough, has good business acumen and the chutzpah for self-promotion that fame and fortune are well within reach.

Stan Lee is far more than just a great marketer. He is also the co-creator of Spider-man X-men, Hulk, Avengers, Iron Man, Thor, Daredevil, Green Goblin and Doctor Doom.

He has created more great relevant characters than anyone. Relevant in as is characters still keep striking a chord in the hearts of each new generation.

I am a big Steve Jobs fan, but I am willing to bet in 30 years more people will still be interested and care about Spider-man and X-men than the Ipad. What the comic community fails to see is they have a giant in their mists midst, and unfortunately when Stan Lee is no longer around that’s when they will start to realize they had something special. Stan Lee has done more to promote this comic hobby than anybody. No one, not Steve Ditko,not Jack Kirby, not Mark Evanier,not Grant Morrison, not Alan Moore, not Frank Miller, not any single one of us has done the good Stan Lee has done for this hobby and for that we are all the better.

 

2c

 

Fixed that for you. (thumbs u

 

My point was NOT that Stan Lee isn't a great man within the comic community nor that his achievements aren't significant, but can he seriously be discussed in the same context as an Einstein or Edison as Steve Jobs life and career has been extolled in countless remembrances this week?

 

Stan Lee's genius has been marketing and brainstorming; he is also an opportunist with a knack for self-promotion, and I don't mean that in a denigrating way. He's a perennial hustler with great timing. It certainly wasn't my intention to take anything away from Stan's career achievements, but he did have a lot of help along the way.

 

Let's get real for a moment. Food for thought: Look at the symbol on the desktop many of you are posting from right now. Does your personal computer or laptop bear the Marvel Comics logo or does it sport the icon of an apple with a bite taken out of it? hm

 

:sumo: I stand by the comments made earlier, but for those who don't know me, I'm a passionate Timely/Marvel collector, so I do appreciate where Stan comes from and what he has achieved.

 

BTW, has anyone here read Joe Simon's autobiographical book besides myself? Just asking. (shrug)

 

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mycs

mycs

Posted
Posted

Stan Lee had Kirby who was a brilliant artist with his own ideas that Stan was able to use, and exploit to a larger market.

 

Steve Jobs had Wozniak who was brilliant engineer with his own ideas that Steve was able to expoit to a larger market.

 

 

What bugs me though is that Wozniak is a billionaire but Kirby couldn't even get all his artwork back from Marvel . That just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

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ComicConnoisseur

ComicConnoisseur

Posted
Posted
I notice a big parellel in the lives of both Stan Lee, and Steve Jobs in their respective fields.

 

Stan Lee was the head head editor of Marvel.

Steve Jobs was the head of Apple.

Stan Lee was more of the visionary who knew what would work, and what would not work.

Steve Jobs was more of a visionary who knew what would work, and what would not work.

 

Stan Lee was a former comic artist, and this insight helped him lead Marvel.

Steve Jobs was a former programmer, and this insight helped him lead Apple.

 

Stan Lee had Kirby who was a brilliant artist with his own ideas that Stan was able to use, and exploit to a larger market.

 

Steve Jobs had Wozniak who was brilliant engineer with his own ideas that Steve was able to expoit to a larger market.

 

It is argued that Kirby was the real driving force behind Marvel.

It is argued that Wozniak was the real driving force behind Apple.

 

Stan Lee became an iconic figure that has shined as almost as bright as his characters.

Steve Jobs became an iconic figure that has shined as almost as bright as the products he put out to market.

 

All in all I think Stan Lee, and Steve Jobs are both one in the same. Both were brilliant marketers, and knew what to put out, and to not put out.

 

hm I highly recommend that you read Joe Simon's recent book My Life In Comics, published in late June of this year,,,

 

61Jb2CQJDcL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg

 

http://www.amazon.com/Joe-Simon-Comics-Illustrated-Autobiography/dp/1845769309

 

Everything I've read in Simon's book rings true, and the revelations are neither sensational nor mean spirited.

 

Without question Lee and Jobs have come to symbolize their respective industries, but that's where the comparisons end.

 

For instance, Stan Lee's teenaged introduction to comics and career path was made possible through nepotism and luck. Contrast that with Steve Jobs' achievements as a visionary and entrepreneur.

 

Drawing attention to the obvious differences between Jobs' and Lee's background doesn't take anything away from either man's achievements, but looking at their accomplishments objectively, there are several orders of magnitude between them.

 

Undoubtably, Lee is a superb marketer, but his venerable status is proof positive that if one lives long enough, has good business acumen and the chutzpah for self-promotion that fame and fortune are well within reach.

Stan Lee is far more than just a great marketer. He is also the co-creator of Spider-man X-men, Hulk, Avengers, Iron Man, Thor, Daredevil, Green Goblin and Doctor Doom.

He has created more great relevant characters than anyone. Relevant in as is characters still keep striking a chord in the hearts of each new generation.

I am a big Steve Jobs fan, but I am willing to bet in 30 years more people will still be interested and care about Spider-man and X-men than the Ipad. What the comic community fails to see is they have a giant in their mists midst, and unfortunately when Stan Lee is no longer around that’s when they will start to realize they had something special. Stan Lee has done more to promote this comic hobby than anybody. No one, not Steve Ditko,not Jack Kirby, not Mark Evanier,not Grant Morrison, not Alan Moore, not Frank Miller, not any single one of us has done the good Stan Lee has done for this hobby and for that we are all the better.

 

2c

 

Fixed that for you. (thumbs u

 

My point was NOT that Stan Lee isn't a great man within the comic community nor that his achievements aren't significant, but can he seriously be discussed in the same context as an Einstein or Edison as Steve Jobs life and career has been extolled in countless remembrances this week?

 

Stan Lee's genius has been marketing and brainstorming; he is also an opportunist with a knack for self-promotion, and I don't mean that in a denigrating way. He's a perennial hustler with great timing. It certainly wasn't my intention to take anything away from Stan's career achievements, but he did have a lot of help along the way.

 

Let's get real for a moment. Food for thought: Look at the symbol on the desktop many of you are posting from right now. Does your personal computer or laptop bear the Marvel Comics logo or does it sport the icon of an apple with a bite taken out of it? hm

 

:sumo: I stand by the comments made earlier, but for those who don't know me, I'm a passionate Timely/Marvel collector, so I do appreciate where Stan comes from and what he has achieved.

 

BTW, has anyone here read Joe Simon's autobiographical book besides myself? Just asking. (shrug)

Mists because I was thinking some people in the comic book community are in a cloudy, foggy, haze when it comes to their thinking about Stan "the man'' Lee!

:whistle:

Other than that you make a strong argument,and I can see what your saying.

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Whizzer

Whizzer

Posted
Posted

I would love to see how (or if) Stan is remembered in 100 years from now.

 

Edgar Rice Burroughs created how many iconic characters?, 1?, 2? Ditto Conan Doyle, Robert E Howard, Poe, Carrol, ? Baum etc etc.

 

A hundred or so years later and they are all revered ( and rightly so). Stan created or co-created a whole universe of characters. Many have now crossed over into the mainstream conciousness via movies, games etc. Many more will likely follow over the years.

 

Stan also drove the demand that led to the popularity of his co-creations via his incredible drive, determination and enthusiasm.

 

Kirby, Ditko, Romita, Thomas et al are incredibly talented, creative people who deserve to be remembered and celebrated as cornerstones of the industry, but honestly, do any of you believe that if any one of them had been the main driving force behind Marvel that Stan undoubtably was the company and it's creations would be as well known as they are now?

 

Excelsior !

 

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thehumantorch

thehumantorch

Posted
Posted
I would love to see how (or if) Stan is remembered in 100 years from now.

 

Edgar Rice Burroughs created how many iconic characters?, 1?, 2? Ditto Conan Doyle, Robert E Howard, Poe, Carrol, ? Baum etc etc.

 

A hundred or so years later and they are all revered ( and rightly so). Stan created or co-created a whole universe of characters. Many have now crossed over into the mainstream conciousness via movies, games etc. Many more will likely follow over the years.

 

Stan also drove the demand that led to the popularity of his co-creations via his incredible drive, determination and enthusiasm.

 

Kirby, Ditko, Romita, Thomas et al are incredibly talented, creative people who deserve to be remembered and celebrated as cornerstones of the industry, but honestly, do any of you believe that if any one of them had been the main driving force behind Marvel that Stan undoubtably was the company and it's creations would be as well known as they are now?

 

Excelsior !

 

I don't know if Stan will be remember 100 years from now but his characters will.

 

Kirby, Ditko, Romita were all brilliant and made huge contributions to the industry but Stan was the driving force behind Marvel. Stan certainly was

great at promotion and self promotion but he also wrote and edited almost

every comic that came out of Marvel in the early 60s. His work load must have

been immense.

 

It is a shame that most creators in the industry were paid on a per page rate

and weren't otherwise rewarded for creating iconic characters who have

become money spinning machines in the industry. Some type of residual

system like they have in the Film industry should have been in place.

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sakaridis

sakaridis

Posted
Posted

My point was NOT that Stan Lee isn't a great man within the comic community nor that his achievements aren't significant, but can he seriously be discussed in the same context as an Einstein or Edison as Steve Jobs life and career has been extolled in countless remembrances this week?

 

Stan Lee's genius has been marketing and brainstorming; he is also an opportunist with a knack for self-promotion, and I don't mean that in a denigrating way. He's a perennial hustler with great timing. It certainly wasn't my intention to take anything away from Stan's career achievements, but he did have a lot of help along the way.

 

Let's get real for a moment. Food for thought: Look at the symbol on the desktop many of you are posting from right now. Does your personal computer or laptop bear the Marvel Comics logo or does it sport the icon of an apple with a bite taken out of it? hm

 

:sumo: I stand by the comments made earlier, but for those who don't know me, I'm a passionate Timely/Marvel collector, so I do appreciate where Stan comes from and what he has achieved.

 

BTW, has anyone here read Joe Simon's autobiographical book besides myself? Just asking. (shrug)

There are three logic fails in the above post.

 

1. You obviously take it as a given that Stan Lee didn't create anything. This is not necessarily true.

 

2. You make it sound as if Steve Jobs "didn't have a lot of help along the way". This, too, is not necessarily true.

 

3. You're attempting to assess cultural significance based on commodities and daily familiarity. I'm also not seeing Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel or Picasso's Guernica on my laptop. That doesn't make the artists any less important in the grand scheme of things.

 

Perhaps the greatest logic fail in this whole discussion as it's developed is that it's not possible to compare an creator of art (even comic book art) with a creator of gadgets and appliances.

 

Apples and oranges, indeed. Apples and indoor plumbing, more appropriately...

 

Why don't we start discussing whether Hemingway is more important than Alexander Fleming, while we're at it? (shrug)

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted

My point was NOT that Stan Lee isn't a great man within the comic community nor that his achievements aren't significant, but can he seriously be discussed in the same context as an Einstein or Edison as Steve Jobs life and career has been extolled in countless remembrances this week?

 

Stan Lee's genius has been marketing and brainstorming; he is also an opportunist with a knack for self-promotion, and I don't mean that in a denigrating way. He's a perennial hustler with great timing. It certainly wasn't my intention to take anything away from Stan's career achievements, but he did have a lot of help along the way.

 

Let's get real for a moment. Food for thought: Look at the symbol on the desktop many of you are posting from right now. Does your personal computer or laptop bear the Marvel Comics logo or does it sport the icon of an apple with a bite taken out of it? hm

 

:sumo: I stand by the comments made earlier, but for those who don't know me, I'm a passionate Timely/Marvel collector, so I do appreciate where Stan comes from and what he has achieved.

 

BTW, has anyone here read Joe Simon's autobiographical book besides myself? Just asking. (shrug)

There are three logic fails in the above post.

 

1. You obviously take it as a given that Stan Lee didn't create anything. This is not necessarily true.

 

2. You make it sound as if Steve Jobs "didn't have a lot of help along the way". This, too, is not necessarily true.

 

3. You're attempting to assess cultural significance based on commodities and daily familiarity. I'm also not seeing Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel or Picasso's Guernica on my laptop. That doesn't make the artists any less important in the grand scheme of things.

 

Perhaps the greatest logic fail in this whole discussion as it's developed is that it's not possible to compare an creator of art (even comic book art) with a creator of gadgets and appliances.

 

Apples and oranges, indeed. Apples and indoor plumbing, more appropriately...

 

Why don't we start discussing whether Hemingway is more important than Alexander Fleming, while we're at it? (shrug)

 

Hemingway was a hack.

 

Steinbeck is FAR superior.

 

(And I'm only half joking.)

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sakaridis

sakaridis

Posted
Posted

My point was NOT that Stan Lee isn't a great man within the comic community nor that his achievements aren't significant, but can he seriously be discussed in the same context as an Einstein or Edison as Steve Jobs life and career has been extolled in countless remembrances this week?

 

Stan Lee's genius has been marketing and brainstorming; he is also an opportunist with a knack for self-promotion, and I don't mean that in a denigrating way. He's a perennial hustler with great timing. It certainly wasn't my intention to take anything away from Stan's career achievements, but he did have a lot of help along the way.

 

Let's get real for a moment. Food for thought: Look at the symbol on the desktop many of you are posting from right now. Does your personal computer or laptop bear the Marvel Comics logo or does it sport the icon of an apple with a bite taken out of it? hm

 

:sumo: I stand by the comments made earlier, but for those who don't know me, I'm a passionate Timely/Marvel collector, so I do appreciate where Stan comes from and what he has achieved.

 

BTW, has anyone here read Joe Simon's autobiographical book besides myself? Just asking. (shrug)

There are three logic fails in the above post.

 

1. You obviously take it as a given that Stan Lee didn't create anything. This is not necessarily true.

 

2. You make it sound as if Steve Jobs "didn't have a lot of help along the way". This, too, is not necessarily true.

 

3. You're attempting to assess cultural significance based on commodities and daily familiarity. I'm also not seeing Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel or Picasso's Guernica on my laptop. That doesn't make the artists any less important in the grand scheme of things.

 

Perhaps the greatest logic fail in this whole discussion as it's developed is that it's not possible to compare an creator of art (even comic book art) with a creator of gadgets and appliances.

 

Apples and oranges, indeed. Apples and indoor plumbing, more appropriately...

 

Why don't we start discussing whether Hemingway is more important than Alexander Fleming, while we're at it? (shrug)

 

Hemingway was a hack.

 

Steinbeck is FAR superior.

 

(And I'm only half joking.)

I prefer Steinbeck myself, but I saw Midnight In Paris earlier tonight and I've had Hemingway on my mind since then. :P

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Cat-Man_America

Cat-Man_America

Posted
Posted

My point was NOT that Stan Lee isn't a great man within the comic community nor that his achievements aren't significant, but can he seriously be discussed in the same context as an Einstein or Edison as Steve Jobs life and career has been extolled in countless remembrances this week?

 

Stan Lee's genius has been marketing and brainstorming; he is also an opportunist with a knack for self-promotion, and I don't mean that in a denigrating way. He's a perennial hustler with great timing. It certainly wasn't my intention to take anything away from Stan's career achievements, but he did have a lot of help along the way.

 

Let's get real for a moment. Food for thought: Look at the symbol on the desktop many of you are posting from right now. Does your personal computer or laptop bear the Marvel Comics logo or does it sport the icon of an apple with a bite taken out of it? hm

 

:sumo: I stand by the comments made earlier, but for those who don't know me, I'm a passionate Timely/Marvel collector, so I do appreciate where Stan comes from and what he has achieved.

 

BTW, has anyone here read Joe Simon's autobiographical book besides myself? Just asking. (shrug)

There are three logic fails in the above post.

 

1. You obviously take it as a given that Stan Lee didn't create anything. This is not necessarily true.

 

2. You make it sound as if Steve Jobs "didn't have a lot of help along the way". This, too, is not necessarily true.

 

3. You're attempting to assess cultural significance based on commodities and daily familiarity. I'm also not seeing Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel or Picasso's Guernica on my laptop. That doesn't make the artists any less important in the grand scheme of things.

 

Perhaps the greatest logic fail in this whole discussion as it's developed is that it's not possible to compare an creator of art (even comic book art) with a creator of gadgets and appliances.

 

Apples and oranges, indeed. Apples and indoor plumbing, more appropriately...

 

Why don't we start discussing whether Hemingway is more important than Alexander Fleming, while we're at it? (shrug)

 

Sakaridis, in all honesty I never intended to leave the impression that Stan Lee never created anything or that Steve Jobs had no assistance along the way. That said, I don't see the logic failures that you do apparently. To put things in context though, you really should read Joe Simon's book; if you do that, I think you'll have a better understanding of Stan's career path.

 

Stan Lee certainly created or at least co-created a number of memorable characters that have stood the test of time, but as I see it his greatest achievements have been in the area of marketing Marvel and himself.

 

BTW, lots of artists, both fine arts and commercial (including comic book illustrators), create work on a laptop via tools that Steve Jobs was involved in developing. I don't know if Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel or Picasso's Guernica has any photo-shopped equivalent, but having seen what Flee Marquette can produce I wouldn't doubt it! (thumbs u

 

In respect to Steve Jobs' accomplishments, he achieved his success in spite of many obstacles being placed in his way; he took many risks to see his goals reach fruition. IMO, he's one of the great visionaries of the 20th century. In fact, if Jobs' only success had been backing PIXAR out of his own pocket when no one else believed in it, that would've been enough to demonstrate his vision for the future, but that was just one shrewd venture among many.

 

Even though Steve Jobs comes about as close to a self-made man as I can conceive, he did have productive partnerships along the way. I don't wish to embellish his legacy or deny credit to others that is due. Job's biography comes out next month, and like Simon's, that too should be a fascinating read.

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sakaridis

sakaridis

Posted
Posted

My point was NOT that Stan Lee isn't a great man within the comic community nor that his achievements aren't significant, but can he seriously be discussed in the same context as an Einstein or Edison as Steve Jobs life and career has been extolled in countless remembrances this week?

 

Stan Lee's genius has been marketing and brainstorming; he is also an opportunist with a knack for self-promotion, and I don't mean that in a denigrating way. He's a perennial hustler with great timing. It certainly wasn't my intention to take anything away from Stan's career achievements, but he did have a lot of help along the way.

 

Let's get real for a moment. Food for thought: Look at the symbol on the desktop many of you are posting from right now. Does your personal computer or laptop bear the Marvel Comics logo or does it sport the icon of an apple with a bite taken out of it? hm

 

:sumo: I stand by the comments made earlier, but for those who don't know me, I'm a passionate Timely/Marvel collector, so I do appreciate where Stan comes from and what he has achieved.

 

BTW, has anyone here read Joe Simon's autobiographical book besides myself? Just asking. (shrug)

There are three logic fails in the above post.

 

1. You obviously take it as a given that Stan Lee didn't create anything. This is not necessarily true.

 

2. You make it sound as if Steve Jobs "didn't have a lot of help along the way". This, too, is not necessarily true.

 

3. You're attempting to assess cultural significance based on commodities and daily familiarity. I'm also not seeing Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel or Picasso's Guernica on my laptop. That doesn't make the artists any less important in the grand scheme of things.

 

Perhaps the greatest logic fail in this whole discussion as it's developed is that it's not possible to compare an creator of art (even comic book art) with a creator of gadgets and appliances.

 

Apples and oranges, indeed. Apples and indoor plumbing, more appropriately...

 

Why don't we start discussing whether Hemingway is more important than Alexander Fleming, while we're at it? (shrug)

 

Sakaridis, in all honesty I never intended to leave the impression that Stan Lee never created anything or that Steve Jobs had no assistance along the way. That said, I don't see the logic failures that you do apparently. To put things in context though, you really should read Joe Simon's book; if you do that, I think you'll have a better understanding of Stan's career path.

 

Stan Lee certainly created or at least co-created a number of memorable characters that have stood the test of time, but as I see it his greatest achievements have been in the area of marketing Marvel and himself.

 

BTW, lots of artists, both fine arts and commercial (including comic book illustrators), create work on a laptop via tools that Steve Jobs was involved in developing. I don't know if Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel or Picasso's Guernica has any photo-shopped equivalent, but having seen what Flee Marquette can produce I wouldn't doubt it! (thumbs u

 

In respect to Steve Jobs' accomplishments, he achieved his success in spite of many obstacles being placed in his way; he took many risks to see his goals reach fruition. IMO, he's one of the great visionaries of the 20th century. In fact, if Jobs' only success had been backing PIXAR out of his own pocket when no one else believed in it, that would've been enough to demonstrate his vision for the future, but that was just one shrewd venture among many.

 

Even though Steve Jobs comes about as close to a self-made man as I can conceive, he did have productive partnerships along the way. I don't wish to embellish his legacy or deny credit to others that is due. Job's biography comes out next month, and like Simon's, that too should be a fascinating read.

I've read Simon's book, but I can't take everything I read as gospel. Since I wasn't actually there at the time, I can never be sure about what really happen.

 

I agree that Stan Lee's greatest talents probably lie in the promotional and marketing aspects of the job, but I also feel that this shouldn't lead some people to belittle his creative accomplishments. (After your further explanations, I'm not saying that you're one of them, but unfortunately, these people do exist.)

 

And let me say that I never doubted that Steve Jobs was a very talented and highly successful man. A visionary, even. No doubt about that.

 

But I still feel that it is irrational to compare a creator of art with a technology entrepreneur, inventor or innovator, as the case may be :gossip:

 

(See, people, it's not impossible for two people who disagree on certain things to have a perfectly civilized discussion. :grin:)

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Mr. Zipper

Mr. Zipper

Posted
Posted
can he seriously be discussed in the same context as an Einstein or Edison as Steve Jobs life and career has been extolled in countless remembrances this week?

 

This is a bit much. Well, it's actually more than a bit much.

 

No disrespect to departed, but to compare Jobs with Einstein and Edison is just silly. (Not picking on David... I had the same reaction when I saw it written in numerous articles.)

 

Jobs was a brilliant marketer. He took products that basically existed and made them a lot better.

 

Einstein and Edison started with blank sheets of paper and REALLY changed how the world worked. It's hard to imagine now, but it cannot be overstated how the electric light bulb alone changed the world. A product that we still use today, more than 100 years later, by the way. Edison's company still thrives over 100 years later.

 

To answer the original question, yes, Steve Jobs was the Stan Lee of Marvel.

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