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Moderns that are heating up on ebay!
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Started by thirdgreenham,

63,835 posts in this topic

Mike's Rack

Mike's Rack

Posted
Posted
To my mind if its a few pages of the first issue its the same as an advertisement. If its a few pages of story that is not part of issue one then its the first appearance. A preview shouldn't count as the first appearance in my opinion.
I agree, it's more of a novelty.
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MrWeen

MrWeen

Posted
Posted
To my mind if its a few pages of the first issue its the same as an advertisement. If its a few pages of story that is not part of issue one then its the first appearance. A preview shouldn't count as the first appearance in my opinion.
I agree, it's more of a novelty.

 

Not sure about that statement, If a character or title appears then how is it not a first appearance? Something like Capes1/Agents 6 cannot be debated as the Walking Dead's first appearance. How can it be debated unless you want to argue which was released first. In the case of Invincible I would put Noble Causes 3a or 3b as the first appearance over Tech Jacket if they were released in the same month. I would even argue that something like this is Bane's first appearance...

 

921151.jpg[/img]

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Mike's Rack

Mike's Rack

Posted
Posted
To my mind if its a few pages of the first issue its the same as an advertisement. If its a few pages of story that is not part of issue one then its the first appearance. A preview shouldn't count as the first appearance in my opinion.
I agree, it's more of a novelty.

 

Not sure about that statement, If a character or title appears then how is it not a first appearance? Something like Capes1/Agents 6 cannot be debated as the Walking Dead's first appearance. How can it be debated unless you want to argue which was released first. In the case of Invincible I would put Noble Causes 3a or 3b as the first appearance over Tech Jacket if they were released in the same month. I would even argue that something like this is Bane's first appearance...

 

921151.jpg[/img]

This debate reminds me of the debate between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. By the letter of the law, then yes they are first appearences, but as a collector of comics, I love the stories. So my spirit says I will not spend as much of my hard earned green on a preview or a promotional piece.
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MrWeen

MrWeen

Posted
Posted
To my mind if its a few pages of the first issue its the same as an advertisement. If its a few pages of story that is not part of issue one then its the first appearance. A preview shouldn't count as the first appearance in my opinion.
I agree, it's more of a novelty.

 

Not sure about that statement, If a character or title appears then how is it not a first appearance? Something like Capes1/Agents 6 cannot be debated as the Walking Dead's first appearance. How can it be debated unless you want to argue which was released first. In the case of Invincible I would put Noble Causes 3a or 3b as the first appearance over Tech Jacket if they were released in the same month. I would even argue that something like this is Bane's first appearance...

 

921151.jpg[/img]

This debate reminds me of the debate between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. By the letter of the law, then yes they are first appearences, but as a collector of comics, I love the stories. So my spirit says I will not spend as much of my hard earned green on a preview or a promotional piece.

 

Well yes, a collector should only buy what they are passionate about or items they can buy cheap and sell high to buy the expensive things they really desire.

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Pinky Lee Zepplin

Pinky Lee Zepplin

Posted
Posted

It's really up to the majority of collectors when it comes to value placed on these books. Techincally, I'd say Hulk 180 is the 1st appearance, but as we all know, the community views 181 as the holy grail.. it's all perceived that way by the majority, so the value holds... I don't try and understand this hobby anymore, I just have fun and read my funny books.

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maloney414

maloney414

Posted
Posted

Not sure about that statement, If a character or title appears then how is it not a first appearance? Something like Capes1/Agents 6 cannot be debated as the Walking Dead's first appearance. How can it be debated unless you want to argue which was released first.

 

 

Agents #6, Capes #1 and The Walking Dead #1 all arrived in comic book stores on the exact same day. October 8th 2003. Diamond Archives for 10/08/03

 

At best it's a 3 way tie, but the market will never recognize Agents #6 or Capes #1 as the true 1st appearance of The Walking Dead. In this day and age of technology people know those books were late and they did NOT hit stores before WD #1.

 

In the case of Invincible I would put Noble Causes 3a or 3b as the first appearance over Tech Jacket if they were released in the same month. I would even argue that something like this is Bane's first appearance...

 

As for Invincible, it comes down to 3 books. Do you think the preview, the cameo, or the 1st "full" is the true 1st appearance? (shrug)

 

 

Tech Jacket came 1st, but it's a 5 page preview. 11/20/02. Diamond Archives for 11/20/02

If this book is your vote, then ask yourself this question: If a preview is allowed to be the 1st appearance of a character, than isn't Previews Magazine the true 1st appearance of most characters???

 

 

Noble Causes Family Secrets 3a & 3b came 2nd, but it's clearly a cameo. 12/04/02.

Diamond Archives for 12/04/02

 

Invincible is on the cover of the 3b variant, but it's a head shot and his colors are wrong. His appearance inside is one small panel of a 2 page spread that features multiple Image characters making cameos. His costume is correct inside though. CGC puts the "cameo" distinction on their label as well.

 

The Noble Causes book hasn't really taken off value wise. Imho, it's because it sucks to have such a small cameo be the 1st appearance. Like Hulk 180/181, Invincible fans would rather it be Invincible #1 because it's a much much cooler book.

 

 

Invincible #1 came last. 1/22/03

Diamond Archive for 1/22/03

It is not a preview or cameo, and is listed by CGC as the 1st "Full" appearance of Invincible. It's up to you to decide for yourself which book should count, but the market overall has chosen Invincible #1.

 

 

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maloney414

maloney414

Posted
Posted

And in case you haven't figured it out by now, I'm a huge Invincible fan and have spent some time researching this before.

 

I own all the books mentioned, including the 1st Previews Magazine that featured the ad for Invincible. lol

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MrWeen

MrWeen

Posted
Posted (edited)
Just to throw a wrench in the tire, I want you to look up the values of these two books:

 

Hulk 180 first appearance of Wolverine, he appears on one page

 

Hulk 181 First Full appearance of Wolverine

 

I have never understood how his appearance in 180 is not a full appearance? It is pretty clear that his first appearance is in 180 unlike other characters first appearances which are mired in ambiguity like Hellboy( SDCC 2/Dime Press 4 ) or the Goon ( Avatar Illustrated /Dreamwalker 0/Best Cellars ).

 

Then there are others like the TMNT. Is Gobbledygook 1, issue 1 of the series or Comic Buyers Guide 547 the first TMNT appearance? Many see issue 1 of the series as the true first appearance because Gobbledygook was not an actual comic and the ad Eastman and Laird took out in the buyer's guide is just that, an ad. If either Gobbledygook 1 or CBG 547 are the first appearance of the TMNT with an ad then why isn't the DC Current's book I have show considered the first appearance of Bane?

I would say the first published appearance of the characters represents the true first appearance ( like Spawn in Malibu Sun 13 ). In the TMNT's case is would be CBG 547 as it predates the convention release of the series issue 1. As far as I can tell there is no publication date for Gobbledygook because it was made with a copy machine. It's all pretty confusing if you ask me.

I'm sure all the argument have been hashed out long before this post concerning all the properties in question but in the case of Wolverine 180 it is quite clear that the first full appearance is in 180 and issue 181 is Wolverine's first appearance on a cover. Sadly too many are invested in the misrepresentation of 181 as the first so we are stuck with it.

Edited by Weenman
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MrWeen

MrWeen

Posted
Posted
And in case you haven't figured it out by now, I'm a huge Invincible fan and have spent some time researching this before.

 

I own all the books mentioned, including the 1st Previews Magazine that featured the ad for Invincible. lol

 

Yeah I would like to see that!

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MrWeen

MrWeen

Posted
Posted

Not sure about that statement, If a character or title appears then how is it not a first appearance? Something like Capes1/Agents 6 cannot be debated as the Walking Dead's first appearance. How can it be debated unless you want to argue which was released first.

 

 

Agents #6, Capes #1 and The Walking Dead #1 all arrived in comic book stores on the exact same day. October 8th 2003. Diamond Archives for 10/08/03

 

At best it's a 3 way tie, but the market will never recognize Agents #6 or Capes #1 as the true 1st appearance of The Walking Dead. In this day and age of technology people know those books were late and they did NOT hit stores before WD #1.

 

In the case of Invincible I would put Noble Causes 3a or 3b as the first appearance over Tech Jacket if they were released in the same month. I would even argue that something like this is Bane's first appearance...

 

 

Tech Jacket came 1st, but it's a 5 page preview. 11/20/02. Diamond Archives for 11/20/02

If this book is your vote, then ask yourself this question: If a preview is allowed to be the 1st appearance of a character, than isn't Previews Magazine the true 1st appearance of most characters???

 

I make the argument for a published work with a publication date printed on the work featuring a character to be the first true appearance. Time to pull out all those Previews in storage!

 

 

 

 

 

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MrWeen

MrWeen

Posted
Posted
including the 1st Previews Magazine that featured the ad for Invincible. lol

 

may we see that? :)

 

Cover

IMG_1900.jpg

 

1st page in Image section, with descriptions of the characters on the cover

IMG_1902.jpg

 

Invincible #1 page

IMG_1905.jpg

 

that is AWESOME!!!!!!!

 

WOW! thanks for this info, just grabbed one online!

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mrwoogieman

mrwoogieman

Posted
Posted

Hey, those old DC comics that have ads for Action 1 in them just became worth more than Action 1 if we follow this line of reasoning!! And every other comic that has a house ad of an iconic character before their book came out!!

 

Woo-Hoo!!

 

 

 

 

 

no? :P

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