What would you do, Part the Second...

Annihilus · November 29, 2011

I believe RMA is talking about an order he made with us.

Correct.

He ordered 37 comics. Looks like almost all were 2nd printings, later printings, or newsstand editions. Of the 37 he ordered, 4 were found not to be available--our computer thought we had them but they weren't on shelf. Our fill rate averages 99.5%--for every 200 items ordered, there's 1 item that our computer thinks we have in stock that we discover we don't actually have. I'd attribute the higher number of misses in this case to RMA targeting somewhat unusual issues compared to the typical customer--issues that don't get ordered very often, so old errors in our inventory are less likely to have already been discovered and corrected.

Fair enough, and let me emphatically state right now that being out of stock was not, and has never been, the issue with this transaction.

It is against eBay policy to list items that aren't available, and thus Lonestar's policies are in direct contradiction to eBay's, but more on that later.

Let me say that again, because I know it will be missed if I don't: having items be out of stock...even on eBay...was not, and has never been, the issue.

Moving on...

We sent him 33 comics for our eBay $3.95 flat rate shipping. I understand there were two errors in what we sent. A Man of Steel where he ordered a 5th printing but got the 1st, and an X-Men 2099 newsstand issue (not sure what that error was--maybe not the newsstand edition). He was refunded the $1.10 and $1.30 purchase prices, respectively. He was not refunded the $3.95 shipping since the shipment included 31 other comics besides the two for which he was refunded.

Let me also state THIS emphatically: a refund of the original shipping cost has also never been the issue. I bought items, I received items. I never asked for, nor expected, a refund of the original shipping cost.

The error with the X-Men 2099 #25 was that I was sent an X-Men #25 (the issue where Magneto rips the metal out of Wolvie's body, with the hologram cover.) Not even the same title, and the invoice specifically identified it as the newsstand issue, and the copy of a different title that I received says "Direct Edition" right on the (back) cover.

Sloppy.

A copy of the Man of Steel 5th printing that RMA wants is still listed in stock. He's welcome to order it as a new order, either by itself or with other items, subject to the standard shipping terms ($3.95 flat rate if ordered through eBay; free shipping on orders over $50 if ordered through our web site; etc.). Nobody is forcing a "second" shipping charge on RMA--he just didn't get one comic he wanted.

And here we get to the real issue:

LONESTAR HAD THE BOOK THE WHOLE TIME, and could have sent it out at ANY time!

When I hit the refund brick wall on ebay, I went to your site and ORDERED the copy, because Man of Steel #18 5th Printing is a fantastically rare item. Is it worth anything? No, not at present. Is it incredibly difficult to find? Yes, because the majority of them, if they weren't hucked, are still locked up inside collector packs.

I WANTED a copy of the book, because I don't HAVE it. It was, as stated before, the reason for this whole order.

Someone in your fulfillment dept. made a mistake. They sent the wrong printing. Ok, no big deal. Mistakes happen.

But when I notified Lonestar through the eBay message system, I was told the same thing that Conan is saying here: sorry, our policy doesn't send out "replacement" copies (see below)", yadda yadda yadda. It was very short, very abrupt, and, frankly, quite rude.

It wasn't that Lonestar didn't HAVE the book...THAT I would understand...it's the Lonestar simply refused to fix THEIR mistake.

So, I thought, "Conan approached me last year and wanted my opinion on how to make Lonestar better...I bet HE can help!"

So I wrote to Conan.

And got the same "this is our policy" brick wall you all see here.

Nothing infuriates me more than people hiding behind "policy"...it's YOUR company (especially true in YOUR case, Conan, though you may not own it yet), and YOU can set aside "policy" any time you want.

ESPECIALLY if YOU made the mistake.

But, no, brick wall, brick wall, brick wall.

And for what?

$1.20.

One dollar and twenty cents.

Apparently, Conan also isn't aware that the cost to ship ONE book is only $1.50, not $3.95, so....brush up, Conan.

"Feel free to purchase the book again, but you'll have to pay the shipping cost (even though it was our mistake, and we should send it out to you for free...book AND shipping...just for customer relations' sake.)

The book was actually 80 cents on the site, with $1.50 shipping, for a total of $2.30.

Since I'd already been willing to pay $1.10 for it through eBay, the actual difference I'm rightfully due was $1.20.

Tell me...how much is this bad publicity worth...? Bit more than $1.20, no?

Even though our computer shows that we still have the desired Man of Steel 5th printing in stock, we told RMA that we do not send out free of charge replacement copies.

You really need to stop saying "replacement copies." You cannot send a REPLACEMENT for an item that you never sent in the first place. "Replacement" is for items that were, perhaps, damaged in shipping...not the wrong item altogether.

After all, if someone buys an Amazing Spiderman #1 from you, and you send them the Marvel Milestone Edition reprint, would you consider the ACTUAL book bought a "replacement"? Of course not, and you'd be a fool to refund that $2,000, $3,000, $5,000 purchase just because some chowderhead in your fulfillment dept. doesn't know their job.

So what's different here? Only the price. You didn't send out the right item to begin with...therefore, you can't POSSIBLY send a "replacement" for it.

And this Ad School 101 semantical nonsense that it's "free of charge" is just that: nonsense. It's not "free of charge", nor do I expect it to be. I ALREADY PAID for it, for crying out loud!

When a large percentage of the items you sell are $1.00-$2.00 comics, sending out shipments to replace a single item is expensive.

Well, hey, thre's an easy solution to this: don't make the mistakes in the first place.

I know, crazy.

Most of our customers order from us frequently, so if we sent a wrong item, we'll refund it and then it's not a problem for the customer to throw the replacement copy in with their next order.

That wouldn't have been a problem for me, either...had I been thinking of buying more soon. But I wasn't. Then what...?

Maybe they have enough items in the order to qualify for free shipping, maybe they don't, but bundling multiple items together in an order helps minimize the amount of dollars going to shipping rather than comics.

We believe this policy works well for us and our customers.

Of course you believe it works well for you! You don't have to do anything to fix your mistakes!

And yes, you're right...it also works very well for you because you are big enough to shed customers who expect you to do what you say you'll do. I guarantee you, it does NOT work for your customers who order things, and then they don't show up. I know you don't consider this, and it's not THAT big a deal, but the shipping cost is mitigated...spread out...over a large amount of books. The fewer books in the shipment that actually get shipped, the higher per unit shipping cost.

Again, not a BIG issue, but it still exists.

Everything's a trade-off, and cost-conscious decisions like these are part of what allow us to provide the industry's largest selection of comics at low prices.

This is a copout. Everything shouldn't have to be a "trade-off" for your customers. They should be able to buy what you have sell, and not have to "settle" because you folks don't care enough to really make your system top notch.

Because that's really the bottom line. You guys have, indeed, "traded off" stellar customer service for cost/benefit analysis that says you can do "just enough" and get away with it. That's just, at its core, corporate laziness.

Lots of other national corporations, especially those dealing in unique items, keep meticulous track of their inventory at all times. They have to, or they won't survive. It's just in the comics world that dealers can be lazy and get away with it, because you service addicts.

There are other dealers that have more generous return/replacement terms than we do, but none with the selection and prices we provide.

Baloney.

I've bought the EXACT same types of items from Mile High and others, at EXACTLY the same prices (or much less, since I buy quantity), and have NEVER, EVER run into "well, we have it in stock, but we can't be bothered to send it out to you, so we'll jsut refund you, cause it's easier."

EVER.

In fact, Mile High has made mistakes, and when called, I have been told "we'll send out the correct issue, in the correct grade, and you keep the one you got for free."

You should consider the implication about being unfavorably compared to Mile High.

In answer to RMA's "what should I do?", I'd look at it like this: "I got 31 comics I wanted, many at $1.10 a piece, for $3.95 shipping. It probably would have cost quite a bit more, and required multiple orders from multiple dealers, to get those comics elsewhere.

See, this is just the polite way of saying "screw you, comics addict...TRY and find it elsewhere for a better price! SUCKA!!!

But the fact is, I can, and have, and will continue to do so.

Conan's trying to tell me "you got a good price anyways, so I don't know why you're not satisfied."

How many times have you all heard THAT line..?

And how many times has it EVER been appropriate...?

That argument FAILS, because if I had no choice but to pay more for them, guess what: I don't buy them. Cause let me tell you, most of the people reading this think I'm INSANE for paying $1.10 for mid-grade drek from the 90's.

$1.10 ain't that great a price, Conan.

I didn't get one comic I particularly wanted, but I got my money back with no hassle.

No hassle? Of COURSE there was hassle! This is the end result of that hassle. Because I didn't WANT the refund. I wanted the item I BOUGHT, that YOU still HAD!

I'll either pay the $1.10 plus $3.95 to order a replacement,

Again...the shipping cost for the one book was $1.50, NOT $3.95...and paying $5.05 for a book that I'd ALREADY BOUGHT AND PAID THE SHIPPING FOR is FIVE TIMES crazier than buying the book for $1.10!

Fools and their money are soon parted, and only fools make such purchases if they can avoid it.

or wait a few weeks until they have some more comics that I want so that the $3.95 shipping cost is covering more than just one comic,

You're presuming I want anything else. What if I don't?

or order $50 worth of comics and pay no shipping at all."

"Here, we'll send it out to you free, if you buy more stuff you may or may not really want."

(thumbs u

Wow.

All this typing over $1.20.

One dollar and twenty cents.

DiceX · November 29, 2011

RockMyAmadeus · November 29, 2011

I can appreciate the reasoning for the policy stated; Conan acknowledges that it isn't perfect.

There's clearly a "fill percentage" listed as a warning to buyers - on the original transaction MyComicShop was out of pocket because of the error - they issued a credit for a book that was shipped in error & RMA kept that book. There were other errors made but no indication of whether credit was sought for all errors.

With fill rate notification all parties should be satisfied even though the book RMA sought was not supplied. The whole about one book being the impetus for the order is irrelevant.

End of transaction.

Then RMA chooses to visit their website attempting to locate the copy that was missed in his first order due to a picking error. The expectation of free shipping due to an error for a past transaction is presumptuous to say the least, there is no indication of any customer service related discussion prior to placing the order (which may have allowed them to proactively appease this buyer's needs)

Read it again, Bucky.

To presume a retroactive credit would be issued for freight when the initiation of the steps taken when placing the second order are not well explained may be a factor affecting their reliance on policy to address an unpleasant customer experience.

You're wrong. And you're arguing against me just to argue against me, not because you have a valid point. Read it again.

In RMA's own words, the policy he agreed to when ordering was contrary to what he wanted: "I didn't want the refund, I wanted the book"

But...I didn't want the refund, I wanted the book. It's a tough, tough book to find, even if it's not worth anything.

So, I write. The response I get is canned "we only issue refunds", yadda blah, etc.

So, on a hunch, I go to said dealer's website.

Book is available (of course.)

So, I buy the book through the website...and, instead of giving me "free" shipping (since, after all, I'd already PAID the shipping), I'm charged another S&H fee.

Lo and behold, the correct book finally arrives, me having paid S&H for it twice.

So, I write back. I'm told that "sorry, but our current policy is to refund for mistakes, not to ship out the ACTUAL CORRECT ITEMS (emphasis mine.)"

Oh, we're arguing policy, are we...?

Because eBay's policy trumps Lonestar's on eBay.

From this page:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-practices.html

Under "product availability":

When buyers bid on or purchase an item on eBay, they should feel confident that the item is available and will be delivered in a timely manner.

What to do

You must ensure the items you are offering are in stock for the duration of the listing and are delivered to the buyer, unless the buyer doesn't meet the terms of your listing.

If you run into an inventory problem that's beyond your control, you're still responsible for letting the buyer know when the item will be available or issuing a refund for the full amount immediately.

(Notice...BEYOND YOUR CONTROL. This was not the case here.)

What not to do

You're not allowed to:

List an item that may be out of stock at the time of purchase.

List an item that you're simultaneously selling outside of eBay.

Offer an item that may not be what's delivered to the buyer.

See, here's where your argument fails: It is AGAINST eBay policy to list items for sale that are not available. Sellers aren't ALLOWED to have a "fill percentage" less than 100% on eBay.

And yes, I asked for the book to be shipped out for free, and they didn't choose to "proactively appease this buyer's needs."

Foiled again, you are.

You know, if we're focusing on "policy."

RockMyAmadeus · November 29, 2011

I believe RMA is talking about an order he made with us.

Correct.

He ordered 37 comics. Looks like almost all were 2nd printings, later printings, or newsstand editions. Of the 37 he ordered, 4 were found not to be available--our computer thought we had them but they weren't on shelf. Our fill rate averages 99.5%--for every 200 items ordered, there's 1 item that our computer thinks we have in stock that we discover we don't actually have. I'd attribute the higher number of misses in this case to RMA targeting somewhat unusual issues compared to the typical customer--issues that don't get ordered very often, so old errors in our inventory are less likely to have already been discovered and corrected.

Fair enough, and let me emphatically state right now that being out of stock was not, and has never been, the issue with this transaction.

It is against eBay policy to list items that aren't available, and thus Lonestar's policies are in direct contradiction to eBay's, but more on that later.

Let me say that again, because I know it will be missed if I don't: having items be out of stock...even on eBay...was not, and has never been, the issue.

Moving on...

We sent him 33 comics for our eBay $3.95 flat rate shipping. I understand there were two errors in what we sent. A Man of Steel where he ordered a 5th printing but got the 1st, and an X-Men 2099 newsstand issue (not sure what that error was--maybe not the newsstand edition). He was refunded the $1.10 and $1.30 purchase prices, respectively. He was not refunded the $3.95 shipping since the shipment included 31 other comics besides the two for which he was refunded.

Let me also state THIS emphatically: a refund of the original shipping cost has also never been the issue. I bought items, I received items. I never asked for, nor expected, a refund of the original shipping cost.

The error with the X-Men 2099 #25 was that I was sent an X-Men #25 (the issue where Magneto rips the metal out of Wolvie's body, with the hologram cover.) Not even the same title, and the invoice specifically identified it as the newsstand issue, and the copy of a different title that I received says "Direct Edition" right on the (back) cover.

Sloppy.

A copy of the Man of Steel 5th printing that RMA wants is still listed in stock. He's welcome to order it as a new order, either by itself or with other items, subject to the standard shipping terms ($3.95 flat rate if ordered through eBay; free shipping on orders over $50 if ordered through our web site; etc.). Nobody is forcing a "second" shipping charge on RMA--he just didn't get one comic he wanted.

And here we get to the real issue:

LONESTAR HAD THE BOOK THE WHOLE TIME, and could have sent it out at ANY time!

When I hit the refund brick wall on ebay, I went to your site and ORDERED the copy, because Man of Steel #18 5th Printing is a fantastically rare item. Is it worth anything? No, not at present. Is it incredibly difficult to find? Yes, because the majority of them, if they weren't hucked, are still locked up inside collector packs.

I WANTED a copy of the book, because I don't HAVE it. It was, as stated before, the reason for this whole order.

Someone in your fulfillment dept. made a mistake. They sent the wrong printing. Ok, no big deal. Mistakes happen.

But when I notified Lonestar through the eBay message system, I was told the same thing that Conan is saying here: sorry, our policy doesn't send out "replacement" copies (see below)", yadda yadda yadda. It was very short, very abrupt, and, frankly, quite rude.

It wasn't that Lonestar didn't HAVE the book...THAT I would understand...it's the Lonestar simply refused to fix THEIR mistake.

So, I thought, "Conan approached me last year and wanted my opinion on how to make Lonestar better...I bet HE can help!"

So I wrote to Conan.

And got the same "this is our policy" brick wall you all see here.

Nothing infuriates me more than people hiding behind "policy"...it's YOUR company (especially true in YOUR case, Conan, though you may not own it yet), and YOU can set aside "policy" any time you want.

ESPECIALLY if YOU made the mistake.

But, no, brick wall, brick wall, brick wall.

And for what?

$1.20.

One dollar and twenty cents.

Apparently, Conan also isn't aware that the cost to ship ONE book is only $1.50, not $3.95, so....brush up, Conan.

"Feel free to purchase the book again, but you'll have to pay the shipping cost (even though it was our mistake, and we should send it out to you for free...book AND shipping...just for customer relations' sake.)

The book was actually 80 cents on the site, with $1.50 shipping, for a total of $2.30.

Since I'd already been willing to pay $1.10 for it through eBay, the actual difference I'm rightfully due was $1.20.

Tell me...how much is this bad publicity worth...? Bit more than $1.20, no?

Even though our computer shows that we still have the desired Man of Steel 5th printing in stock, we told RMA that we do not send out free of charge replacement copies.

You really need to stop saying "replacement copies." You cannot send a REPLACEMENT for an item that you never sent in the first place. "Replacement" is for items that were, perhaps, damaged in shipping...not the wrong item altogether.

After all, if someone buys an Amazing Spiderman #1 from you, and you send them the Marvel Milestone Edition reprint, would you consider the ACTUAL book bought a "replacement"? Of course not, and you'd be a fool to refund that $2,000, $3,000, $5,000 purchase just because some chowderhead in your fulfillment dept. doesn't know their job.

So what's different here? Only the price. You didn't send out the right item to begin with...therefore, you can't POSSIBLY send a "replacement" for it.

And this Ad School 101 semantical nonsense that it's "free of charge" is just that: nonsense. It's not "free of charge", nor do I expect it to be. I ALREADY PAID for it, for crying out loud!

When a large percentage of the items you sell are $1.00-$2.00 comics, sending out shipments to replace a single item is expensive.

Well, hey, thre's an easy solution to this: don't make the mistakes in the first place.

I know, crazy.

Most of our customers order from us frequently, so if we sent a wrong item, we'll refund it and then it's not a problem for the customer to throw the replacement copy in with their next order.

That wouldn't have been a problem for me, either...had I been thinking of buying more soon. But I wasn't. Then what...?

Maybe they have enough items in the order to qualify for free shipping, maybe they don't, but bundling multiple items together in an order helps minimize the amount of dollars going to shipping rather than comics.

We believe this policy works well for us and our customers.

Of course you believe it works well for you! You don't have to do anything to fix your mistakes!

And yes, you're right...it also works very well for you because you are big enough to shed customers who expect you to do what you say you'll do. I guarantee you, it does NOT work for your customers who order things, and then they don't show up. I know you don't consider this, and it's not THAT big a deal, but the shipping cost is mitigated...spread out...over a large amount of books. The fewer books in the shipment that actually get shipped, the higher per unit shipping cost.

Again, not a BIG issue, but it still exists.

Everything's a trade-off, and cost-conscious decisions like these are part of what allow us to provide the industry's largest selection of comics at low prices.

This is a copout. Everything shouldn't have to be a "trade-off" for your customers. They should be able to buy what you have sell, and not have to "settle" because you folks don't care enough to really make your system top notch.

Because that's really the bottom line. You guys have, indeed, "traded off" stellar customer service for cost/benefit analysis that says you can do "just enough" and get away with it. That's just, at its core, corporate laziness.

Lots of other national corporations, especially those dealing in unique items, keep meticulous track of their inventory at all times. They have to, or they won't survive. It's just in the comics world that dealers can be lazy and get away with it, because you service addicts.

There are other dealers that have more generous return/replacement terms than we do, but none with the selection and prices we provide.

Baloney.

I've bought the EXACT same types of items from Mile High and others, at EXACTLY the same prices (or much less, since I buy quantity), and have NEVER, EVER run into "well, we have it in stock, but we can't be bothered to send it out to you, so we'll jsut refund you, cause it's easier."

EVER.

In fact, Mile High has made mistakes, and when called, I have been told "we'll send out the correct issue, in the correct grade, and you keep the one you got for free."

You should consider the implication about being unfavorably compared to Mile High.

In answer to RMA's "what should I do?", I'd look at it like this: "I got 31 comics I wanted, many at $1.10 a piece, for $3.95 shipping. It probably would have cost quite a bit more, and required multiple orders from multiple dealers, to get those comics elsewhere.

See, this is just the polite way of saying "screw you, comics addict...TRY and find it elsewhere for a better price! SUCKA!!!

But the fact is, I can, and have, and will continue to do so.

Conan's trying to tell me "you got a good price anyways, so I don't know why you're not satisfied."

How many times have you all heard THAT line..?

And how many times has it EVER been appropriate...?

That argument FAILS, because if I had no choice but to pay more for them, guess what: I don't buy them. Cause let me tell you, most of the people reading this think I'm INSANE for paying $1.10 for mid-grade drek from the 90's.

$1.10 ain't that great a price, Conan.

I didn't get one comic I particularly wanted, but I got my money back with no hassle.

No hassle? Of COURSE there was hassle! This is the end result of that hassle. Because I didn't WANT the refund. I wanted the item I BOUGHT, that YOU still HAD!

I'll either pay the $1.10 plus $3.95 to order a replacement,

Again...the shipping cost for the one book was $1.50, NOT $3.95...and paying $5.05 for a book that I'd ALREADY BOUGHT AND PAID THE SHIPPING FOR is FIVE TIMES crazier than buying the book for $1.10!

Fools and their money are soon parted, and only fools make such purchases if they can avoid it.

or wait a few weeks until they have some more comics that I want so that the $3.95 shipping cost is covering more than just one comic,

You're presuming I want anything else. What if I don't?

or order $50 worth of comics and pay no shipping at all."

"Here, we'll send it out to you free, if you buy more stuff you may or may not really want."

(thumbs u

Wow.

All this typing over $1.20.

One dollar and twenty cents.

Yup.

And also the thousands of dollars I spend on comics yearly, as well.

We're discussing broader principles here, sweets.

RockMyAmadeus · November 29, 2011

I can appreciate the reasoning for the policy stated; Conan acknowledges that it isn't perfect.

There's clearly a "fill percentage" listed as a warning to buyers - on the original transaction MyComicShop was out of pocket because of the error - they issued a credit for a book that was shipped in error & RMA kept that book. There were other errors made but no indication of whether credit was sought for all errors.

With fill rate notification all parties should be satisfied even though the book RMA sought was not supplied. The whole about one book being the impetus for the order is irrelevant.

End of transaction.

Then RMA chooses to visit their website attempting to locate the copy that was missed in his first order due to a picking error. The expectation of free shipping due to an error for a past transaction is presumptuous to say the least, there is no indication of any customer service related discussion prior to placing the order (which may have allowed them to proactively appease this buyer's needs) To presume a retroactive credit would be issued for freight when the initiation of the steps taken when placing the second order are not well explained may be a factor affecting their reliance on policy to address an unpleasant customer experience.

In RMA's own words, the policy he agreed to when ordering was contrary to what he wanted: "I didn't want the refund, I wanted the book"

But...I didn't want the refund, I wanted the book. It's a tough, tough book to find, even if it's not worth anything.

So, I write. The response I get is canned "we only issue refunds", yadda blah, etc.

So, on a hunch, I go to said dealer's website.

Book is available (of course.)

So, I buy the book through the website...and, instead of giving me "free" shipping (since, after all, I'd already PAID the shipping), I'm charged another S&H fee.

Lo and behold, the correct book finally arrives, me having paid S&H for it twice.

So, I write back. I'm told that "sorry, but our current policy is to refund for mistakes, not to ship out the ACTUAL CORRECT ITEMS (emphasis mine.)"

No you didn't...

No, he really didn't.

He tried, at least.

DiceX · November 29, 2011

I believe RMA is talking about an order he made with us.

Correct.

He ordered 37 comics. Looks like almost all were 2nd printings, later printings, or newsstand editions. Of the 37 he ordered, 4 were found not to be available--our computer thought we had them but they weren't on shelf. Our fill rate averages 99.5%--for every 200 items ordered, there's 1 item that our computer thinks we have in stock that we discover we don't actually have. I'd attribute the higher number of misses in this case to RMA targeting somewhat unusual issues compared to the typical customer--issues that don't get ordered very often, so old errors in our inventory are less likely to have already been discovered and corrected.

Fair enough, and let me emphatically state right now that being out of stock was not, and has never been, the issue with this transaction.

It is against eBay policy to list items that aren't available, and thus Lonestar's policies are in direct contradiction to eBay's, but more on that later.

Let me say that again, because I know it will be missed if I don't: having items be out of stock...even on eBay...was not, and has never been, the issue.

Moving on...

We sent him 33 comics for our eBay $3.95 flat rate shipping. I understand there were two errors in what we sent. A Man of Steel where he ordered a 5th printing but got the 1st, and an X-Men 2099 newsstand issue (not sure what that error was--maybe not the newsstand edition). He was refunded the $1.10 and $1.30 purchase prices, respectively. He was not refunded the $3.95 shipping since the shipment included 31 other comics besides the two for which he was refunded.

Let me also state THIS emphatically: a refund of the original shipping cost has also never been the issue. I bought items, I received items. I never asked for, nor expected, a refund of the original shipping cost.

The error with the X-Men 2099 #25 was that I was sent an X-Men #25 (the issue where Magneto rips the metal out of Wolvie's body, with the hologram cover.) Not even the same title, and the invoice specifically identified it as the newsstand issue, and the copy of a different title that I received says "Direct Edition" right on the (back) cover.

Sloppy.

A copy of the Man of Steel 5th printing that RMA wants is still listed in stock. He's welcome to order it as a new order, either by itself or with other items, subject to the standard shipping terms ($3.95 flat rate if ordered through eBay; free shipping on orders over $50 if ordered through our web site; etc.). Nobody is forcing a "second" shipping charge on RMA--he just didn't get one comic he wanted.

And here we get to the real issue:

LONESTAR HAD THE BOOK THE WHOLE TIME, and could have sent it out at ANY time!

When I hit the refund brick wall on ebay, I went to your site and ORDERED the copy, because Man of Steel #18 5th Printing is a fantastically rare item. Is it worth anything? No, not at present. Is it incredibly difficult to find? Yes, because the majority of them, if they weren't hucked, are still locked up inside collector packs.

I WANTED a copy of the book, because I don't HAVE it. It was, as stated before, the reason for this whole order.

Someone in your fulfillment dept. made a mistake. They sent the wrong printing. Ok, no big deal. Mistakes happen.

But when I notified Lonestar through the eBay message system, I was told the same thing that Conan is saying here: sorry, our policy doesn't send out "replacement" copies (see below)", yadda yadda yadda. It was very short, very abrupt, and, frankly, quite rude.

It wasn't that Lonestar didn't HAVE the book...THAT I would understand...it's the Lonestar simply refused to fix THEIR mistake.

So, I thought, "Conan approached me last year and wanted my opinion on how to make Lonestar better...I bet HE can help!"

So I wrote to Conan.

And got the same "this is our policy" brick wall you all see here.

Nothing infuriates me more than people hiding behind "policy"...it's YOUR company (especially true in YOUR case, Conan, though you may not own it yet), and YOU can set aside "policy" any time you want.

ESPECIALLY if YOU made the mistake.

But, no, brick wall, brick wall, brick wall.

And for what?

$1.20.

One dollar and twenty cents.

Apparently, Conan also isn't aware that the cost to ship ONE book is only $1.50, not $3.95, so....brush up, Conan.

"Feel free to purchase the book again, but you'll have to pay the shipping cost (even though it was our mistake, and we should send it out to you for free...book AND shipping...just for customer relations' sake.)

The book was actually 80 cents on the site, with $1.50 shipping, for a total of $2.30.

Since I'd already been willing to pay $1.10 for it through eBay, the actual difference I'm rightfully due was $1.20.

Tell me...how much is this bad publicity worth...? Bit more than $1.20, no?

Even though our computer shows that we still have the desired Man of Steel 5th printing in stock, we told RMA that we do not send out free of charge replacement copies.

You really need to stop saying "replacement copies." You cannot send a REPLACEMENT for an item that you never sent in the first place. "Replacement" is for items that were, perhaps, damaged in shipping...not the wrong item altogether.

After all, if someone buys an Amazing Spiderman #1 from you, and you send them the Marvel Milestone Edition reprint, would you consider the ACTUAL book bought a "replacement"? Of course not, and you'd be a fool to refund that $2,000, $3,000, $5,000 purchase just because some chowderhead in your fulfillment dept. doesn't know their job.

So what's different here? Only the price. You didn't send out the right item to begin with...therefore, you can't POSSIBLY send a "replacement" for it.

And this Ad School 101 semantical nonsense that it's "free of charge" is just that: nonsense. It's not "free of charge", nor do I expect it to be. I ALREADY PAID for it, for crying out loud!

When a large percentage of the items you sell are $1.00-$2.00 comics, sending out shipments to replace a single item is expensive.

Well, hey, thre's an easy solution to this: don't make the mistakes in the first place.

I know, crazy.

Most of our customers order from us frequently, so if we sent a wrong item, we'll refund it and then it's not a problem for the customer to throw the replacement copy in with their next order.

That wouldn't have been a problem for me, either...had I been thinking of buying more soon. But I wasn't. Then what...?

Maybe they have enough items in the order to qualify for free shipping, maybe they don't, but bundling multiple items together in an order helps minimize the amount of dollars going to shipping rather than comics.

We believe this policy works well for us and our customers.

Of course you believe it works well for you! You don't have to do anything to fix your mistakes!

And yes, you're right...it also works very well for you because you are big enough to shed customers who expect you to do what you say you'll do. I guarantee you, it does NOT work for your customers who order things, and then they don't show up. I know you don't consider this, and it's not THAT big a deal, but the shipping cost is mitigated...spread out...over a large amount of books. The fewer books in the shipment that actually get shipped, the higher per unit shipping cost.

Again, not a BIG issue, but it still exists.

Everything's a trade-off, and cost-conscious decisions like these are part of what allow us to provide the industry's largest selection of comics at low prices.

This is a copout. Everything shouldn't have to be a "trade-off" for your customers. They should be able to buy what you have sell, and not have to "settle" because you folks don't care enough to really make your system top notch.

Because that's really the bottom line. You guys have, indeed, "traded off" stellar customer service for cost/benefit analysis that says you can do "just enough" and get away with it. That's just, at its core, corporate laziness.

Lots of other national corporations, especially those dealing in unique items, keep meticulous track of their inventory at all times. They have to, or they won't survive. It's just in the comics world that dealers can be lazy and get away with it, because you service addicts.

There are other dealers that have more generous return/replacement terms than we do, but none with the selection and prices we provide.

Baloney.

I've bought the EXACT same types of items from Mile High and others, at EXACTLY the same prices (or much less, since I buy quantity), and have NEVER, EVER run into "well, we have it in stock, but we can't be bothered to send it out to you, so we'll jsut refund you, cause it's easier."

EVER.

In fact, Mile High has made mistakes, and when called, I have been told "we'll send out the correct issue, in the correct grade, and you keep the one you got for free."

You should consider the implication about being unfavorably compared to Mile High.

In answer to RMA's "what should I do?", I'd look at it like this: "I got 31 comics I wanted, many at $1.10 a piece, for $3.95 shipping. It probably would have cost quite a bit more, and required multiple orders from multiple dealers, to get those comics elsewhere.

See, this is just the polite way of saying "screw you, comics addict...TRY and find it elsewhere for a better price! SUCKA!!!

But the fact is, I can, and have, and will continue to do so.

Conan's trying to tell me "you got a good price anyways, so I don't know why you're not satisfied."

How many times have you all heard THAT line..?

And how many times has it EVER been appropriate...?

That argument FAILS, because if I had no choice but to pay more for them, guess what: I don't buy them. Cause let me tell you, most of the people reading this think I'm INSANE for paying $1.10 for mid-grade drek from the 90's.

$1.10 ain't that great a price, Conan.

I didn't get one comic I particularly wanted, but I got my money back with no hassle.

No hassle? Of COURSE there was hassle! This is the end result of that hassle. Because I didn't WANT the refund. I wanted the item I BOUGHT, that YOU still HAD!

I'll either pay the $1.10 plus $3.95 to order a replacement,

Again...the shipping cost for the one book was $1.50, NOT $3.95...and paying $5.05 for a book that I'd ALREADY BOUGHT AND PAID THE SHIPPING FOR is FIVE TIMES crazier than buying the book for $1.10!

Fools and their money are soon parted, and only fools make such purchases if they can avoid it.

or wait a few weeks until they have some more comics that I want so that the $3.95 shipping cost is covering more than just one comic,

You're presuming I want anything else. What if I don't?

or order $50 worth of comics and pay no shipping at all."

"Here, we'll send it out to you free, if you buy more stuff you may or may not really want."

(thumbs u

Wow.

All this typing over $1.20.

One dollar and twenty cents.

Yup.

And also the thousands of dollars I spend on comics yearly, as well.

We're discussing broader principles here, sweets.

We should put you to work for Wikipedia. You could have your own banner ad at the top of every page begging people for five bucks.

RockMyAmadeus · November 29, 2011

I discussed this with RMA via PM over a month ago and I don't believe anything new has occurred since then, so I have not been in touch with him via PM.

From our point of view: RMA didn't get something he ordered and was refunded. He's back at square one--still has $1.10 in his pocket (since that was refunded), still has a Man of Steel 5th printing shaped hole on his shelf (since we sent the wrong printing). He already paid $3.95 shipping once, but that shipping covered the delivery of 31 other comics that he also wanted, so there's no justification for us to refund that $3.95.

Nobody asked for a refund of the original $3.95 shipping.

Had the Man of Steel comic been the only comic in the order, he would have been refunded the entire cost of the order: item price, shipping, any tax, etc.

Of course, otherwise you'd be guilty of theft.

I think our policy on this is reasonable,

Except that it contradicts eBay's

though I agree with you that as a customer I'd prefer to get a replacement over a refund.

I'd prefer to get the actual item I ordered in the first place, not a "replacement" or a "refund."

If we were to change our policy, it would probably be offset by a modest increase in the prices of our books at the lowest end of the pricing spectrum, and that's something Buddy prefers not to do. I, personally, might choose differently, but it's not my call.

In response to RMA's issue in this thread, I have modified our eBay listing template, see "1. Item Availability" under the section titled "IMPORTANT: Please read this before buying". The modified text, with new language to specifically address RMA's concern, is as follows:

1. Item Availability:
If we are unable to supply an item due to an error in our inventory, we will promptly issue a refund to your PayPal account. Our fill rate is 99.5%; good, but not perfect. We work hard to keep our inventory accurate, but with millions of collectible comics in stock and thousands coming in and going out each day, some mistakes are inevitable. Also, please note that in the unlikely event that we send you an incorrect issue, we will refund your purchase price (return may be required at our discretion), but we do not send out replacement copies, so any replacements would need to be purchased as part of a new, separate order. Please do not order from us if you require a guaranteed 100% fill rate, or if these terms are not acceptable.

If you don't like our policy, I don't expect that additional text to make you feel any better, but at least it's clearer now. Better than nothing.

As posted above, you're not allowed to have this policy on eBay.

Yes, I know in practice that eBay turns a blind eye to it, especially to those of you listing 100,000+ items...but you're still not allowed to have this policy on eBay.

If eBay gets wind of it, and they decide to make it an issue, that policy is toast.

RockMyAmadeus · November 29, 2011

I believe RMA is talking about an order he made with us.

Correct.

He ordered 37 comics. Looks like almost all were 2nd printings, later printings, or newsstand editions. Of the 37 he ordered, 4 were found not to be available--our computer thought we had them but they weren't on shelf. Our fill rate averages 99.5%--for every 200 items ordered, there's 1 item that our computer thinks we have in stock that we discover we don't actually have. I'd attribute the higher number of misses in this case to RMA targeting somewhat unusual issues compared to the typical customer--issues that don't get ordered very often, so old errors in our inventory are less likely to have already been discovered and corrected.

Fair enough, and let me emphatically state right now that being out of stock was not, and has never been, the issue with this transaction.

It is against eBay policy to list items that aren't available, and thus Lonestar's policies are in direct contradiction to eBay's, but more on that later.

Let me say that again, because I know it will be missed if I don't: having items be out of stock...even on eBay...was not, and has never been, the issue.

Moving on...

We sent him 33 comics for our eBay $3.95 flat rate shipping. I understand there were two errors in what we sent. A Man of Steel where he ordered a 5th printing but got the 1st, and an X-Men 2099 newsstand issue (not sure what that error was--maybe not the newsstand edition). He was refunded the $1.10 and $1.30 purchase prices, respectively. He was not refunded the $3.95 shipping since the shipment included 31 other comics besides the two for which he was refunded.

Let me also state THIS emphatically: a refund of the original shipping cost has also never been the issue. I bought items, I received items. I never asked for, nor expected, a refund of the original shipping cost.

The error with the X-Men 2099 #25 was that I was sent an X-Men #25 (the issue where Magneto rips the metal out of Wolvie's body, with the hologram cover.) Not even the same title, and the invoice specifically identified it as the newsstand issue, and the copy of a different title that I received says "Direct Edition" right on the (back) cover.

Sloppy.

A copy of the Man of Steel 5th printing that RMA wants is still listed in stock. He's welcome to order it as a new order, either by itself or with other items, subject to the standard shipping terms ($3.95 flat rate if ordered through eBay; free shipping on orders over $50 if ordered through our web site; etc.). Nobody is forcing a "second" shipping charge on RMA--he just didn't get one comic he wanted.

And here we get to the real issue:

LONESTAR HAD THE BOOK THE WHOLE TIME, and could have sent it out at ANY time!

When I hit the refund brick wall on ebay, I went to your site and ORDERED the copy, because Man of Steel #18 5th Printing is a fantastically rare item. Is it worth anything? No, not at present. Is it incredibly difficult to find? Yes, because the majority of them, if they weren't hucked, are still locked up inside collector packs.

I WANTED a copy of the book, because I don't HAVE it. It was, as stated before, the reason for this whole order.

Someone in your fulfillment dept. made a mistake. They sent the wrong printing. Ok, no big deal. Mistakes happen.

But when I notified Lonestar through the eBay message system, I was told the same thing that Conan is saying here: sorry, our policy doesn't send out "replacement" copies (see below)", yadda yadda yadda. It was very short, very abrupt, and, frankly, quite rude.

It wasn't that Lonestar didn't HAVE the book...THAT I would understand...it's the Lonestar simply refused to fix THEIR mistake.

So, I thought, "Conan approached me last year and wanted my opinion on how to make Lonestar better...I bet HE can help!"

So I wrote to Conan.

And got the same "this is our policy" brick wall you all see here.

Nothing infuriates me more than people hiding behind "policy"...it's YOUR company (especially true in YOUR case, Conan, though you may not own it yet), and YOU can set aside "policy" any time you want.

ESPECIALLY if YOU made the mistake.

But, no, brick wall, brick wall, brick wall.

And for what?

$1.20.

One dollar and twenty cents.

Apparently, Conan also isn't aware that the cost to ship ONE book is only $1.50, not $3.95, so....brush up, Conan.

"Feel free to purchase the book again, but you'll have to pay the shipping cost (even though it was our mistake, and we should send it out to you for free...book AND shipping...just for customer relations' sake.)

The book was actually 80 cents on the site, with $1.50 shipping, for a total of $2.30.

Since I'd already been willing to pay $1.10 for it through eBay, the actual difference I'm rightfully due was $1.20.

Tell me...how much is this bad publicity worth...? Bit more than $1.20, no?

Even though our computer shows that we still have the desired Man of Steel 5th printing in stock, we told RMA that we do not send out free of charge replacement copies.

You really need to stop saying "replacement copies." You cannot send a REPLACEMENT for an item that you never sent in the first place. "Replacement" is for items that were, perhaps, damaged in shipping...not the wrong item altogether.

After all, if someone buys an Amazing Spiderman #1 from you, and you send them the Marvel Milestone Edition reprint, would you consider the ACTUAL book bought a "replacement"? Of course not, and you'd be a fool to refund that $2,000, $3,000, $5,000 purchase just because some chowderhead in your fulfillment dept. doesn't know their job.

So what's different here? Only the price. You didn't send out the right item to begin with...therefore, you can't POSSIBLY send a "replacement" for it.

And this Ad School 101 semantical nonsense that it's "free of charge" is just that: nonsense. It's not "free of charge", nor do I expect it to be. I ALREADY PAID for it, for crying out loud!

When a large percentage of the items you sell are $1.00-$2.00 comics, sending out shipments to replace a single item is expensive.

Well, hey, thre's an easy solution to this: don't make the mistakes in the first place.

I know, crazy.

Most of our customers order from us frequently, so if we sent a wrong item, we'll refund it and then it's not a problem for the customer to throw the replacement copy in with their next order.

That wouldn't have been a problem for me, either...had I been thinking of buying more soon. But I wasn't. Then what...?

Maybe they have enough items in the order to qualify for free shipping, maybe they don't, but bundling multiple items together in an order helps minimize the amount of dollars going to shipping rather than comics.

We believe this policy works well for us and our customers.

Of course you believe it works well for you! You don't have to do anything to fix your mistakes!

And yes, you're right...it also works very well for you because you are big enough to shed customers who expect you to do what you say you'll do. I guarantee you, it does NOT work for your customers who order things, and then they don't show up. I know you don't consider this, and it's not THAT big a deal, but the shipping cost is mitigated...spread out...over a large amount of books. The fewer books in the shipment that actually get shipped, the higher per unit shipping cost.

Again, not a BIG issue, but it still exists.

Everything's a trade-off, and cost-conscious decisions like these are part of what allow us to provide the industry's largest selection of comics at low prices.

This is a copout. Everything shouldn't have to be a "trade-off" for your customers. They should be able to buy what you have sell, and not have to "settle" because you folks don't care enough to really make your system top notch.

Because that's really the bottom line. You guys have, indeed, "traded off" stellar customer service for cost/benefit analysis that says you can do "just enough" and get away with it. That's just, at its core, corporate laziness.

Lots of other national corporations, especially those dealing in unique items, keep meticulous track of their inventory at all times. They have to, or they won't survive. It's just in the comics world that dealers can be lazy and get away with it, because you service addicts.

There are other dealers that have more generous return/replacement terms than we do, but none with the selection and prices we provide.

Baloney.

I've bought the EXACT same types of items from Mile High and others, at EXACTLY the same prices (or much less, since I buy quantity), and have NEVER, EVER run into "well, we have it in stock, but we can't be bothered to send it out to you, so we'll jsut refund you, cause it's easier."

EVER.

In fact, Mile High has made mistakes, and when called, I have been told "we'll send out the correct issue, in the correct grade, and you keep the one you got for free."

You should consider the implication about being unfavorably compared to Mile High.

In answer to RMA's "what should I do?", I'd look at it like this: "I got 31 comics I wanted, many at $1.10 a piece, for $3.95 shipping. It probably would have cost quite a bit more, and required multiple orders from multiple dealers, to get those comics elsewhere.

See, this is just the polite way of saying "screw you, comics addict...TRY and find it elsewhere for a better price! SUCKA!!!

But the fact is, I can, and have, and will continue to do so.

Conan's trying to tell me "you got a good price anyways, so I don't know why you're not satisfied."

How many times have you all heard THAT line..?

And how many times has it EVER been appropriate...?

That argument FAILS, because if I had no choice but to pay more for them, guess what: I don't buy them. Cause let me tell you, most of the people reading this think I'm INSANE for paying $1.10 for mid-grade drek from the 90's.

$1.10 ain't that great a price, Conan.

I didn't get one comic I particularly wanted, but I got my money back with no hassle.

No hassle? Of COURSE there was hassle! This is the end result of that hassle. Because I didn't WANT the refund. I wanted the item I BOUGHT, that YOU still HAD!

I'll either pay the $1.10 plus $3.95 to order a replacement,

Again...the shipping cost for the one book was $1.50, NOT $3.95...and paying $5.05 for a book that I'd ALREADY BOUGHT AND PAID THE SHIPPING FOR is FIVE TIMES crazier than buying the book for $1.10!

Fools and their money are soon parted, and only fools make such purchases if they can avoid it.

or wait a few weeks until they have some more comics that I want so that the $3.95 shipping cost is covering more than just one comic,

You're presuming I want anything else. What if I don't?

or order $50 worth of comics and pay no shipping at all."

"Here, we'll send it out to you free, if you buy more stuff you may or may not really want."

(thumbs u

Wow.

All this typing over $1.20.

One dollar and twenty cents.

Yup.

And also the thousands of dollars I spend on comics yearly, as well.

We're discussing broader principles here, sweets.

We should put you to work for Wikipedia. You could have your own banner ad at the top of every page begging people for five bucks.

Suck it, grandpa.

RockMyAmadeus · November 29, 2011

Conan, I'm a fan of yours but can't agree with you. I understand these are low
value books and from my experience your shipping rates are lower than anyone

else but failing to ship a book that is in stock is your responsibility not RMA's.

If the book was out of stock you should notify the buyer before shipping.

If we know that a book is out of stock we notify the buyer before shipping and the buyer is not charged for that item. That's not what happened here. I believe what happened in this case, was: RMA ordered a 5th printing. Our employee who was pulling the comics from where they're filed, pulled a 1st printing rather than a 5th printing. I don't know if it's because a 1st printing book was improperly filed as a 5th printing, or because the employee pulling the comic mistakenly pulled from the 1st printing group rather than the 5th printing group. We then thought we were shipping RMA a 5th printing, but it actually wasn't the 5th.

To those of you who have expressed your preference for us to ship a replacement rather than refunding the purchase, I respect and sympathize with your position, but our policy has been this way a long time and is unlikely to change. If that's a deal-breaker for you, that's up to you.

It's supposed to be a deal breaker for eBay...

comix4fun · November 29, 2011

I believe RMA is talking about an order he made with us.

Correct.

He ordered 37 comics. Looks like almost all were 2nd printings, later printings, or newsstand editions. Of the 37 he ordered, 4 were found not to be available--our computer thought we had them but they weren't on shelf. Our fill rate averages 99.5%--for every 200 items ordered, there's 1 item that our computer thinks we have in stock that we discover we don't actually have. I'd attribute the higher number of misses in this case to RMA targeting somewhat unusual issues compared to the typical customer--issues that don't get ordered very often, so old errors in our inventory are less likely to have already been discovered and corrected.

Fair enough, and let me emphatically state right now that being out of stock was not, and has never been, the issue with this transaction.

It is against eBay policy to list items that aren't available, and thus Lonestar's policies are in direct contradiction to eBay's, but more on that later.

Let me say that again, because I know it will be missed if I don't: having items be out of stock...even on eBay...was not, and has never been, the issue.

Moving on...

We sent him 33 comics for our eBay $3.95 flat rate shipping. I understand there were two errors in what we sent. A Man of Steel where he ordered a 5th printing but got the 1st, and an X-Men 2099 newsstand issue (not sure what that error was--maybe not the newsstand edition). He was refunded the $1.10 and $1.30 purchase prices, respectively. He was not refunded the $3.95 shipping since the shipment included 31 other comics besides the two for which he was refunded.

Let me also state THIS emphatically: a refund of the original shipping cost has also never been the issue. I bought items, I received items. I never asked for, nor expected, a refund of the original shipping cost.

The error with the X-Men 2099 #25 was that I was sent an X-Men #25 (the issue where Magneto rips the metal out of Wolvie's body, with the hologram cover.) Not even the same title, and the invoice specifically identified it as the newsstand issue, and the copy of a different title that I received says "Direct Edition" right on the (back) cover.

Sloppy.

A copy of the Man of Steel 5th printing that RMA wants is still listed in stock. He's welcome to order it as a new order, either by itself or with other items, subject to the standard shipping terms ($3.95 flat rate if ordered through eBay; free shipping on orders over $50 if ordered through our web site; etc.). Nobody is forcing a "second" shipping charge on RMA--he just didn't get one comic he wanted.

And here we get to the real issue:

LONESTAR HAD THE BOOK THE WHOLE TIME, and could have sent it out at ANY time!

When I hit the refund brick wall on ebay, I went to your site and ORDERED the copy, because Man of Steel #18 5th Printing is a fantastically rare item. Is it worth anything? No, not at present. Is it incredibly difficult to find? Yes, because the majority of them, if they weren't hucked, are still locked up inside collector packs.

I WANTED a copy of the book, because I don't HAVE it. It was, as stated before, the reason for this whole order.

Someone in your fulfillment dept. made a mistake. They sent the wrong printing. Ok, no big deal. Mistakes happen.

But when I notified Lonestar through the eBay message system, I was told the same thing that Conan is saying here: sorry, our policy doesn't send out "replacement" copies (see below)", yadda yadda yadda. It was very short, very abrupt, and, frankly, quite rude.

It wasn't that Lonestar didn't HAVE the book...THAT I would understand...it's the Lonestar simply refused to fix THEIR mistake.

So, I thought, "Conan approached me last year and wanted my opinion on how to make Lonestar better...I bet HE can help!"

So I wrote to Conan.

And got the same "this is our policy" brick wall you all see here.

Nothing infuriates me more than people hiding behind "policy"...it's YOUR company (especially true in YOUR case, Conan, though you may not own it yet), and YOU can set aside "policy" any time you want.

ESPECIALLY if YOU made the mistake.

But, no, brick wall, brick wall, brick wall.

And for what?

$1.20.

One dollar and twenty cents.

Apparently, Conan also isn't aware that the cost to ship ONE book is only $1.50, not $3.95, so....brush up, Conan.

"Feel free to purchase the book again, but you'll have to pay the shipping cost (even though it was our mistake, and we should send it out to you for free...book AND shipping...just for customer relations' sake.)

The book was actually 80 cents on the site, with $1.50 shipping, for a total of $2.30.

Since I'd already been willing to pay $1.10 for it through eBay, the actual difference I'm rightfully due was $1.20.

Tell me...how much is this bad publicity worth...? Bit more than $1.20, no?

Even though our computer shows that we still have the desired Man of Steel 5th printing in stock, we told RMA that we do not send out free of charge replacement copies.

You really need to stop saying "replacement copies." You cannot send a REPLACEMENT for an item that you never sent in the first place. "Replacement" is for items that were, perhaps, damaged in shipping...not the wrong item altogether.

After all, if someone buys an Amazing Spiderman #1 from you, and you send them the Marvel Milestone Edition reprint, would you consider the ACTUAL book bought a "replacement"? Of course not, and you'd be a fool to refund that $2,000, $3,000, $5,000 purchase just because some chowderhead in your fulfillment dept. doesn't know their job.

So what's different here? Only the price. You didn't send out the right item to begin with...therefore, you can't POSSIBLY send a "replacement" for it.

And this Ad School 101 semantical nonsense that it's "free of charge" is just that: nonsense. It's not "free of charge", nor do I expect it to be. I ALREADY PAID for it, for crying out loud!

When a large percentage of the items you sell are $1.00-$2.00 comics, sending out shipments to replace a single item is expensive.

Well, hey, thre's an easy solution to this: don't make the mistakes in the first place.

I know, crazy.

Most of our customers order from us frequently, so if we sent a wrong item, we'll refund it and then it's not a problem for the customer to throw the replacement copy in with their next order.

That wouldn't have been a problem for me, either...had I been thinking of buying more soon. But I wasn't. Then what...?

Maybe they have enough items in the order to qualify for free shipping, maybe they don't, but bundling multiple items together in an order helps minimize the amount of dollars going to shipping rather than comics.

We believe this policy works well for us and our customers.

Of course you believe it works well for you! You don't have to do anything to fix your mistakes!

And yes, you're right...it also works very well for you because you are big enough to shed customers who expect you to do what you say you'll do. I guarantee you, it does NOT work for your customers who order things, and then they don't show up. I know you don't consider this, and it's not THAT big a deal, but the shipping cost is mitigated...spread out...over a large amount of books. The fewer books in the shipment that actually get shipped, the higher per unit shipping cost.

Again, not a BIG issue, but it still exists.

Everything's a trade-off, and cost-conscious decisions like these are part of what allow us to provide the industry's largest selection of comics at low prices.

This is a copout. Everything shouldn't have to be a "trade-off" for your customers. They should be able to buy what you have sell, and not have to "settle" because you folks don't care enough to really make your system top notch.

Because that's really the bottom line. You guys have, indeed, "traded off" stellar customer service for cost/benefit analysis that says you can do "just enough" and get away with it. That's just, at its core, corporate laziness.

Lots of other national corporations, especially those dealing in unique items, keep meticulous track of their inventory at all times. They have to, or they won't survive. It's just in the comics world that dealers can be lazy and get away with it, because you service addicts.

There are other dealers that have more generous return/replacement terms than we do, but none with the selection and prices we provide.

Baloney.

I've bought the EXACT same types of items from Mile High and others, at EXACTLY the same prices (or much less, since I buy quantity), and have NEVER, EVER run into "well, we have it in stock, but we can't be bothered to send it out to you, so we'll jsut refund you, cause it's easier."

EVER.

In fact, Mile High has made mistakes, and when called, I have been told "we'll send out the correct issue, in the correct grade, and you keep the one you got for free."

You should consider the implication about being unfavorably compared to Mile High.

In answer to RMA's "what should I do?", I'd look at it like this: "I got 31 comics I wanted, many at $1.10 a piece, for $3.95 shipping. It probably would have cost quite a bit more, and required multiple orders from multiple dealers, to get those comics elsewhere.

See, this is just the polite way of saying "screw you, comics addict...TRY and find it elsewhere for a better price! SUCKA!!!

But the fact is, I can, and have, and will continue to do so.

Conan's trying to tell me "you got a good price anyways, so I don't know why you're not satisfied."

How many times have you all heard THAT line..?

And how many times has it EVER been appropriate...?

That argument FAILS, because if I had no choice but to pay more for them, guess what: I don't buy them. Cause let me tell you, most of the people reading this think I'm INSANE for paying $1.10 for mid-grade drek from the 90's.

$1.10 ain't that great a price, Conan.

I didn't get one comic I particularly wanted, but I got my money back with no hassle.

No hassle? Of COURSE there was hassle! This is the end result of that hassle. Because I didn't WANT the refund. I wanted the item I BOUGHT, that YOU still HAD!

I'll either pay the $1.10 plus $3.95 to order a replacement,

Again...the shipping cost for the one book was $1.50, NOT $3.95...and paying $5.05 for a book that I'd ALREADY BOUGHT AND PAID THE SHIPPING FOR is FIVE TIMES crazier than buying the book for $1.10!

Fools and their money are soon parted, and only fools make such purchases if they can avoid it.

or wait a few weeks until they have some more comics that I want so that the $3.95 shipping cost is covering more than just one comic,

You're presuming I want anything else. What if I don't?

or order $50 worth of comics and pay no shipping at all."

"Here, we'll send it out to you free, if you buy more stuff you may or may not really want."

(thumbs u

Wow.

All this typing over $1.20.

One dollar and twenty cents.

Or all that typing for a $1.50 in shipping it would have taken to fix the problem, depending on your perspective. Seeing as the seller went through some serious verbal contortions to try and excuse a clear error on their part and claim some immutable law of the universe that could not be broken to get the man the book he ordered.

At one point I think he might have invoked the Prime Directive...but I could be wrong on that front.

Wrong for a penny, wrong for a million...still wrong.

RockMyAmadeus · November 29, 2011

I'm not so sure you'll hear back from Conan. He seemed to believe in what he typed.

I hope he does respond again, and I hope it's in regards to making an exception for you. Although, ultimately, the problem still remains.

That's ok, I don't expect a response.

And I haven't even brought UP the phone call...

Oh yes...there's more....

bababooey · November 29, 2011

I can appreciate the reasoning for the policy stated; Conan acknowledges that it isn't perfect.

There's clearly a "fill percentage" listed as a warning to buyers - on the original transaction MyComicShop was out of pocket because of the error - they issued a credit for a book that was shipped in error & RMA kept that book. There were other errors made but no indication of whether credit was sought for all errors.

With fill rate notification all parties should be satisfied even though the book RMA sought was not supplied. The whole about one book being the impetus for the order is irrelevant.

End of transaction.

Then RMA chooses to visit their website attempting to locate the copy that was missed in his first order due to a picking error. The expectation of free shipping due to an error for a past transaction is presumptuous to say the least, there is no indication of any customer service related discussion prior to placing the order (which may have allowed them to proactively appease this buyer's needs)

Read it again, Bucky.

To presume a retroactive credit would be issued for freight when the initiation of the steps taken when placing the second order are not well explained may be a factor affecting their reliance on policy to address an unpleasant customer experience.

You're wrong. And you're arguing against me just to argue against me, not because you have a valid point. Read it again.

In RMA's own words, the policy he agreed to when ordering was contrary to what he wanted: "I didn't want the refund, I wanted the book"

But...I didn't want the refund, I wanted the book. It's a tough, tough book to find, even if it's not worth anything.

So, I write. The response I get is canned "we only issue refunds", yadda blah, etc.

So, on a hunch, I go to said dealer's website.

Book is available (of course.)

So, I buy the book through the website...and, instead of giving me "free" shipping (since, after all, I'd already PAID the shipping), I'm charged another S&H fee.

Lo and behold, the correct book finally arrives, me having paid S&H for it twice.

So, I write back. I'm told that "sorry, but our current policy is to refund for mistakes, not to ship out the ACTUAL CORRECT ITEMS (emphasis mine.)"

Oh, we're arguing policy, are we...?

Because eBay's policy trumps Lonestar's on eBay.

From this page:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-practices.html

Under "product availability":

When buyers bid on or purchase an item on eBay, they should feel confident that the item is available and will be delivered in a timely manner.

What to do

You must ensure the items you are offering are in stock for the duration of the listing and are delivered to the buyer, unless the buyer doesn't meet the terms of your listing.

If you run into an inventory problem that's beyond your control, you're still responsible for letting the buyer know when the item will be available or issuing a refund for the full amount immediately.

(Notice...BEYOND YOUR CONTROL. This was not the case here.)

What not to do

You're not allowed to:

List an item that may be out of stock at the time of purchase.

List an item that you're simultaneously selling outside of eBay.

Offer an item that may not be what's delivered to the buyer.

See, here's where your argument fails: It is AGAINST eBay policy to list items for sale that are not available. Sellers aren't ALLOWED to have a "fill percentage" less than 100% on eBay.

And yes, I asked for the book to be shipped out for free, and they didn't choose to "proactively appease this buyer's needs."

Foiled again, you are.

You know, if we're focusing on "policy."

In business, "beyond your control" is relative as to how the business defines their processes; it can relate to systemic issues, human error etc..etc.. with the resolution of reimbursement clearly stated as acceptable solution IN the link you provided. You acknowledge an error was made when filling the error, stopping that error was "beyond their control".

If you run into an inventory problem that's beyond your control, you're still responsible for letting the buyer know when the item will be available or issuing a refund for the full amount immediately.

Regards,

Bucky

Green · November 29, 2011

I believe RMA is talking about an order he made with us.

Correct.

He ordered 37 comics. Looks like almost all were 2nd printings, later printings, or newsstand editions. Of the 37 he ordered, 4 were found not to be available--our computer thought we had them but they weren't on shelf. Our fill rate averages 99.5%--for every 200 items ordered, there's 1 item that our computer thinks we have in stock that we discover we don't actually have. I'd attribute the higher number of misses in this case to RMA targeting somewhat unusual issues compared to the typical customer--issues that don't get ordered very often, so old errors in our inventory are less likely to have already been discovered and corrected.

Fair enough, and let me emphatically state right now that being out of stock was not, and has never been, the issue with this transaction.

It is against eBay policy to list items that aren't available, and thus Lonestar's policies are in direct contradiction to eBay's, but more on that later.

Let me say that again, because I know it will be missed if I don't: having items be out of stock...even on eBay...was not, and has never been, the issue.

Moving on...

We sent him 33 comics for our eBay $3.95 flat rate shipping. I understand there were two errors in what we sent. A Man of Steel where he ordered a 5th printing but got the 1st, and an X-Men 2099 newsstand issue (not sure what that error was--maybe not the newsstand edition). He was refunded the $1.10 and $1.30 purchase prices, respectively. He was not refunded the $3.95 shipping since the shipment included 31 other comics besides the two for which he was refunded.

Let me also state THIS emphatically: a refund of the original shipping cost has also never been the issue. I bought items, I received items. I never asked for, nor expected, a refund of the original shipping cost.

The error with the X-Men 2099 #25 was that I was sent an X-Men #25 (the issue where Magneto rips the metal out of Wolvie's body, with the hologram cover.) Not even the same title, and the invoice specifically identified it as the newsstand issue, and the copy of a different title that I received says "Direct Edition" right on the (back) cover.

Sloppy.

A copy of the Man of Steel 5th printing that RMA wants is still listed in stock. He's welcome to order it as a new order, either by itself or with other items, subject to the standard shipping terms ($3.95 flat rate if ordered through eBay; free shipping on orders over $50 if ordered through our web site; etc.). Nobody is forcing a "second" shipping charge on RMA--he just didn't get one comic he wanted.

And here we get to the real issue:

LONESTAR HAD THE BOOK THE WHOLE TIME, and could have sent it out at ANY time!

When I hit the refund brick wall on ebay, I went to your site and ORDERED the copy, because Man of Steel #18 5th Printing is a fantastically rare item. Is it worth anything? No, not at present. Is it incredibly difficult to find? Yes, because the majority of them, if they weren't hucked, are still locked up inside collector packs.

I WANTED a copy of the book, because I don't HAVE it. It was, as stated before, the reason for this whole order.

Someone in your fulfillment dept. made a mistake. They sent the wrong printing. Ok, no big deal. Mistakes happen.

But when I notified Lonestar through the eBay message system, I was told the same thing that Conan is saying here: sorry, our policy doesn't send out "replacement" copies (see below)", yadda yadda yadda. It was very short, very abrupt, and, frankly, quite rude.

It wasn't that Lonestar didn't HAVE the book...THAT I would understand...it's the Lonestar simply refused to fix THEIR mistake.

So, I thought, "Conan approached me last year and wanted my opinion on how to make Lonestar better...I bet HE can help!"

So I wrote to Conan.

And got the same "this is our policy" brick wall you all see here.

Nothing infuriates me more than people hiding behind "policy"...it's YOUR company (especially true in YOUR case, Conan, though you may not own it yet), and YOU can set aside "policy" any time you want.

ESPECIALLY if YOU made the mistake.

But, no, brick wall, brick wall, brick wall.

And for what?

$1.20.

One dollar and twenty cents.

Apparently, Conan also isn't aware that the cost to ship ONE book is only $1.50, not $3.95, so....brush up, Conan.

"Feel free to purchase the book again, but you'll have to pay the shipping cost (even though it was our mistake, and we should send it out to you for free...book AND shipping...just for customer relations' sake.)

The book was actually 80 cents on the site, with $1.50 shipping, for a total of $2.30.

Since I'd already been willing to pay $1.10 for it through eBay, the actual difference I'm rightfully due was $1.20.

Tell me...how much is this bad publicity worth...? Bit more than $1.20, no?

Even though our computer shows that we still have the desired Man of Steel 5th printing in stock, we told RMA that we do not send out free of charge replacement copies.

You really need to stop saying "replacement copies." You cannot send a REPLACEMENT for an item that you never sent in the first place. "Replacement" is for items that were, perhaps, damaged in shipping...not the wrong item altogether.

After all, if someone buys an Amazing Spiderman #1 from you, and you send them the Marvel Milestone Edition reprint, would you consider the ACTUAL book bought a "replacement"? Of course not, and you'd be a fool to refund that $2,000, $3,000, $5,000 purchase just because some chowderhead in your fulfillment dept. doesn't know their job.

So what's different here? Only the price. You didn't send out the right item to begin with...therefore, you can't POSSIBLY send a "replacement" for it.

And this Ad School 101 semantical nonsense that it's "free of charge" is just that: nonsense. It's not "free of charge", nor do I expect it to be. I ALREADY PAID for it, for crying out loud!

When a large percentage of the items you sell are $1.00-$2.00 comics, sending out shipments to replace a single item is expensive.

Well, hey, thre's an easy solution to this: don't make the mistakes in the first place.

I know, crazy.

Most of our customers order from us frequently, so if we sent a wrong item, we'll refund it and then it's not a problem for the customer to throw the replacement copy in with their next order.

That wouldn't have been a problem for me, either...had I been thinking of buying more soon. But I wasn't. Then what...?

Maybe they have enough items in the order to qualify for free shipping, maybe they don't, but bundling multiple items together in an order helps minimize the amount of dollars going to shipping rather than comics.

We believe this policy works well for us and our customers.

Of course you believe it works well for you! You don't have to do anything to fix your mistakes!

And yes, you're right...it also works very well for you because you are big enough to shed customers who expect you to do what you say you'll do. I guarantee you, it does NOT work for your customers who order things, and then they don't show up. I know you don't consider this, and it's not THAT big a deal, but the shipping cost is mitigated...spread out...over a large amount of books. The fewer books in the shipment that actually get shipped, the higher per unit shipping cost.

Again, not a BIG issue, but it still exists.

Everything's a trade-off, and cost-conscious decisions like these are part of what allow us to provide the industry's largest selection of comics at low prices.

This is a copout. Everything shouldn't have to be a "trade-off" for your customers. They should be able to buy what you have sell, and not have to "settle" because you folks don't care enough to really make your system top notch.

Because that's really the bottom line. You guys have, indeed, "traded off" stellar customer service for cost/benefit analysis that says you can do "just enough" and get away with it. That's just, at its core, corporate laziness.

Lots of other national corporations, especially those dealing in unique items, keep meticulous track of their inventory at all times. They have to, or they won't survive. It's just in the comics world that dealers can be lazy and get away with it, because you service addicts.

There are other dealers that have more generous return/replacement terms than we do, but none with the selection and prices we provide.

Baloney.

I've bought the EXACT same types of items from Mile High and others, at EXACTLY the same prices (or much less, since I buy quantity), and have NEVER, EVER run into "well, we have it in stock, but we can't be bothered to send it out to you, so we'll jsut refund you, cause it's easier."

EVER.

In fact, Mile High has made mistakes, and when called, I have been told "we'll send out the correct issue, in the correct grade, and you keep the one you got for free."

You should consider the implication about being unfavorably compared to Mile High.

In answer to RMA's "what should I do?", I'd look at it like this: "I got 31 comics I wanted, many at $1.10 a piece, for $3.95 shipping. It probably would have cost quite a bit more, and required multiple orders from multiple dealers, to get those comics elsewhere.

See, this is just the polite way of saying "screw you, comics addict...TRY and find it elsewhere for a better price! SUCKA!!!

But the fact is, I can, and have, and will continue to do so.

Conan's trying to tell me "you got a good price anyways, so I don't know why you're not satisfied."

How many times have you all heard THAT line..?

And how many times has it EVER been appropriate...?

That argument FAILS, because if I had no choice but to pay more for them, guess what: I don't buy them. Cause let me tell you, most of the people reading this think I'm INSANE for paying $1.10 for mid-grade drek from the 90's.

$1.10 ain't that great a price, Conan.

I didn't get one comic I particularly wanted, but I got my money back with no hassle.

No hassle? Of COURSE there was hassle! This is the end result of that hassle. Because I didn't WANT the refund. I wanted the item I BOUGHT, that YOU still HAD!

I'll either pay the $1.10 plus $3.95 to order a replacement,

Again...the shipping cost for the one book was $1.50, NOT $3.95...and paying $5.05 for a book that I'd ALREADY BOUGHT AND PAID THE SHIPPING FOR is FIVE TIMES crazier than buying the book for $1.10!

Fools and their money are soon parted, and only fools make such purchases if they can avoid it.

or wait a few weeks until they have some more comics that I want so that the $3.95 shipping cost is covering more than just one comic,

You're presuming I want anything else. What if I don't?

or order $50 worth of comics and pay no shipping at all."

"Here, we'll send it out to you free, if you buy more stuff you may or may not really want."

(thumbs u

Wow.

All this typing over $1.20.

One dollar and twenty cents.

Yup.

And also the thousands of dollars I spend on comics yearly, as well.

We're discussing broader principles here, sweets.

We should put you to work for Wikipedia. You could have your own banner ad at the top of every page begging people for five bucks.

Suck it, grandpa.

Quotes are fun.

DiceX · November 29, 2011

I believe RMA is talking about an order he made with us.

Correct.

He ordered 37 comics. Looks like almost all were 2nd printings, later printings, or newsstand editions. Of the 37 he ordered, 4 were found not to be available--our computer thought we had them but they weren't on shelf. Our fill rate averages 99.5%--for every 200 items ordered, there's 1 item that our computer thinks we have in stock that we discover we don't actually have. I'd attribute the higher number of misses in this case to RMA targeting somewhat unusual issues compared to the typical customer--issues that don't get ordered very often, so old errors in our inventory are less likely to have already been discovered and corrected.

Fair enough, and let me emphatically state right now that being out of stock was not, and has never been, the issue with this transaction.

It is against eBay policy to list items that aren't available, and thus Lonestar's policies are in direct contradiction to eBay's, but more on that later.

Let me say that again, because I know it will be missed if I don't: having items be out of stock...even on eBay...was not, and has never been, the issue.

Moving on...

We sent him 33 comics for our eBay $3.95 flat rate shipping. I understand there were two errors in what we sent. A Man of Steel where he ordered a 5th printing but got the 1st, and an X-Men 2099 newsstand issue (not sure what that error was--maybe not the newsstand edition). He was refunded the $1.10 and $1.30 purchase prices, respectively. He was not refunded the $3.95 shipping since the shipment included 31 other comics besides the two for which he was refunded.

Let me also state THIS emphatically: a refund of the original shipping cost has also never been the issue. I bought items, I received items. I never asked for, nor expected, a refund of the original shipping cost.

The error with the X-Men 2099 #25 was that I was sent an X-Men #25 (the issue where Magneto rips the metal out of Wolvie's body, with the hologram cover.) Not even the same title, and the invoice specifically identified it as the newsstand issue, and the copy of a different title that I received says "Direct Edition" right on the (back) cover.

Sloppy.

A copy of the Man of Steel 5th printing that RMA wants is still listed in stock. He's welcome to order it as a new order, either by itself or with other items, subject to the standard shipping terms ($3.95 flat rate if ordered through eBay; free shipping on orders over $50 if ordered through our web site; etc.). Nobody is forcing a "second" shipping charge on RMA--he just didn't get one comic he wanted.

And here we get to the real issue:

LONESTAR HAD THE BOOK THE WHOLE TIME, and could have sent it out at ANY time!

When I hit the refund brick wall on ebay, I went to your site and ORDERED the copy, because Man of Steel #18 5th Printing is a fantastically rare item. Is it worth anything? No, not at present. Is it incredibly difficult to find? Yes, because the majority of them, if they weren't hucked, are still locked up inside collector packs.

I WANTED a copy of the book, because I don't HAVE it. It was, as stated before, the reason for this whole order.

Someone in your fulfillment dept. made a mistake. They sent the wrong printing. Ok, no big deal. Mistakes happen.

But when I notified Lonestar through the eBay message system, I was told the same thing that Conan is saying here: sorry, our policy doesn't send out "replacement" copies (see below)", yadda yadda yadda. It was very short, very abrupt, and, frankly, quite rude.

It wasn't that Lonestar didn't HAVE the book...THAT I would understand...it's the Lonestar simply refused to fix THEIR mistake.

So, I thought, "Conan approached me last year and wanted my opinion on how to make Lonestar better...I bet HE can help!"

So I wrote to Conan.

And got the same "this is our policy" brick wall you all see here.

Nothing infuriates me more than people hiding behind "policy"...it's YOUR company (especially true in YOUR case, Conan, though you may not own it yet), and YOU can set aside "policy" any time you want.

ESPECIALLY if YOU made the mistake.

But, no, brick wall, brick wall, brick wall.

And for what?

$1.20.

One dollar and twenty cents.

Apparently, Conan also isn't aware that the cost to ship ONE book is only $1.50, not $3.95, so....brush up, Conan.

"Feel free to purchase the book again, but you'll have to pay the shipping cost (even though it was our mistake, and we should send it out to you for free...book AND shipping...just for customer relations' sake.)

The book was actually 80 cents on the site, with $1.50 shipping, for a total of $2.30.

Since I'd already been willing to pay $1.10 for it through eBay, the actual difference I'm rightfully due was $1.20.

Tell me...how much is this bad publicity worth...? Bit more than $1.20, no?

Even though our computer shows that we still have the desired Man of Steel 5th printing in stock, we told RMA that we do not send out free of charge replacement copies.

You really need to stop saying "replacement copies." You cannot send a REPLACEMENT for an item that you never sent in the first place. "Replacement" is for items that were, perhaps, damaged in shipping...not the wrong item altogether.

After all, if someone buys an Amazing Spiderman #1 from you, and you send them the Marvel Milestone Edition reprint, would you consider the ACTUAL book bought a "replacement"? Of course not, and you'd be a fool to refund that $2,000, $3,000, $5,000 purchase just because some chowderhead in your fulfillment dept. doesn't know their job.

So what's different here? Only the price. You didn't send out the right item to begin with...therefore, you can't POSSIBLY send a "replacement" for it.

And this Ad School 101 semantical nonsense that it's "free of charge" is just that: nonsense. It's not "free of charge", nor do I expect it to be. I ALREADY PAID for it, for crying out loud!

When a large percentage of the items you sell are $1.00-$2.00 comics, sending out shipments to replace a single item is expensive.

Well, hey, thre's an easy solution to this: don't make the mistakes in the first place.

I know, crazy.

Most of our customers order from us frequently, so if we sent a wrong item, we'll refund it and then it's not a problem for the customer to throw the replacement copy in with their next order.

That wouldn't have been a problem for me, either...had I been thinking of buying more soon. But I wasn't. Then what...?

Maybe they have enough items in the order to qualify for free shipping, maybe they don't, but bundling multiple items together in an order helps minimize the amount of dollars going to shipping rather than comics.

We believe this policy works well for us and our customers.

Of course you believe it works well for you! You don't have to do anything to fix your mistakes!

And yes, you're right...it also works very well for you because you are big enough to shed customers who expect you to do what you say you'll do. I guarantee you, it does NOT work for your customers who order things, and then they don't show up. I know you don't consider this, and it's not THAT big a deal, but the shipping cost is mitigated...spread out...over a large amount of books. The fewer books in the shipment that actually get shipped, the higher per unit shipping cost.

Again, not a BIG issue, but it still exists.

Everything's a trade-off, and cost-conscious decisions like these are part of what allow us to provide the industry's largest selection of comics at low prices.

This is a copout. Everything shouldn't have to be a "trade-off" for your customers. They should be able to buy what you have sell, and not have to "settle" because you folks don't care enough to really make your system top notch.

Because that's really the bottom line. You guys have, indeed, "traded off" stellar customer service for cost/benefit analysis that says you can do "just enough" and get away with it. That's just, at its core, corporate laziness.

Lots of other national corporations, especially those dealing in unique items, keep meticulous track of their inventory at all times. They have to, or they won't survive. It's just in the comics world that dealers can be lazy and get away with it, because you service addicts.

There are other dealers that have more generous return/replacement terms than we do, but none with the selection and prices we provide.

Baloney.

I've bought the EXACT same types of items from Mile High and others, at EXACTLY the same prices (or much less, since I buy quantity), and have NEVER, EVER run into "well, we have it in stock, but we can't be bothered to send it out to you, so we'll jsut refund you, cause it's easier."

EVER.

In fact, Mile High has made mistakes, and when called, I have been told "we'll send out the correct issue, in the correct grade, and you keep the one you got for free."

You should consider the implication about being unfavorably compared to Mile High.

In answer to RMA's "what should I do?", I'd look at it like this: "I got 31 comics I wanted, many at $1.10 a piece, for $3.95 shipping. It probably would have cost quite a bit more, and required multiple orders from multiple dealers, to get those comics elsewhere.

See, this is just the polite way of saying "screw you, comics addict...TRY and find it elsewhere for a better price! SUCKA!!!

But the fact is, I can, and have, and will continue to do so.

Conan's trying to tell me "you got a good price anyways, so I don't know why you're not satisfied."

How many times have you all heard THAT line..?

And how many times has it EVER been appropriate...?

That argument FAILS, because if I had no choice but to pay more for them, guess what: I don't buy them. Cause let me tell you, most of the people reading this think I'm INSANE for paying $1.10 for mid-grade drek from the 90's.

$1.10 ain't that great a price, Conan.

I didn't get one comic I particularly wanted, but I got my money back with no hassle.

No hassle? Of COURSE there was hassle! This is the end result of that hassle. Because I didn't WANT the refund. I wanted the item I BOUGHT, that YOU still HAD!

I'll either pay the $1.10 plus $3.95 to order a replacement,

Again...the shipping cost for the one book was $1.50, NOT $3.95...and paying $5.05 for a book that I'd ALREADY BOUGHT AND PAID THE SHIPPING FOR is FIVE TIMES crazier than buying the book for $1.10!

Fools and their money are soon parted, and only fools make such purchases if they can avoid it.

or wait a few weeks until they have some more comics that I want so that the $3.95 shipping cost is covering more than just one comic,

You're presuming I want anything else. What if I don't?

or order $50 worth of comics and pay no shipping at all."

"Here, we'll send it out to you free, if you buy more stuff you may or may not really want."

(thumbs u

Wow.

All this typing over $1.20.

One dollar and twenty cents.

Yup.

And also the thousands of dollars I spend on comics yearly, as well.

We're discussing broader principles here, sweets.

We should put you to work for Wikipedia. You could have your own banner ad at the top of every page begging people for five bucks.

Suck it, grandpa.

thirdgreenham · November 29, 2011

That must have been your largest quote-fest. Ever.

I smell points, too.

RockMyAmadeus · November 29, 2011

I can appreciate the reasoning for the policy stated; Conan acknowledges that it isn't perfect.

There's clearly a "fill percentage" listed as a warning to buyers - on the original transaction MyComicShop was out of pocket because of the error - they issued a credit for a book that was shipped in error & RMA kept that book. There were other errors made but no indication of whether credit was sought for all errors.

With fill rate notification all parties should be satisfied even though the book RMA sought was not supplied. The whole about one book being the impetus for the order is irrelevant.

End of transaction.

Then RMA chooses to visit their website attempting to locate the copy that was missed in his first order due to a picking error. The expectation of free shipping due to an error for a past transaction is presumptuous to say the least, there is no indication of any customer service related discussion prior to placing the order (which may have allowed them to proactively appease this buyer's needs)

Read it again, Bucky.

To presume a retroactive credit would be issued for freight when the initiation of the steps taken when placing the second order are not well explained may be a factor affecting their reliance on policy to address an unpleasant customer experience.

You're wrong. And you're arguing against me just to argue against me, not because you have a valid point. Read it again.

In RMA's own words, the policy he agreed to when ordering was contrary to what he wanted: "I didn't want the refund, I wanted the book"

But...I didn't want the refund, I wanted the book. It's a tough, tough book to find, even if it's not worth anything.

So, I write. The response I get is canned "we only issue refunds", yadda blah, etc.

So, on a hunch, I go to said dealer's website.

Book is available (of course.)

So, I buy the book through the website...and, instead of giving me "free" shipping (since, after all, I'd already PAID the shipping), I'm charged another S&H fee.

Lo and behold, the correct book finally arrives, me having paid S&H for it twice.

So, I write back. I'm told that "sorry, but our current policy is to refund for mistakes, not to ship out the ACTUAL CORRECT ITEMS (emphasis mine.)"

Oh, we're arguing policy, are we...?

Because eBay's policy trumps Lonestar's on eBay.

From this page:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-practices.html

Under "product availability":

When buyers bid on or purchase an item on eBay, they should feel confident that the item is available and will be delivered in a timely manner.

What to do

You must ensure the items you are offering are in stock for the duration of the listing and are delivered to the buyer, unless the buyer doesn't meet the terms of your listing.

If you run into an inventory problem that's beyond your control, you're still responsible for letting the buyer know when the item will be available or issuing a refund for the full amount immediately.

(Notice...BEYOND YOUR CONTROL. This was not the case here.)

What not to do

You're not allowed to:

List an item that may be out of stock at the time of purchase.

List an item that you're simultaneously selling outside of eBay.

Offer an item that may not be what's delivered to the buyer.

See, here's where your argument fails: It is AGAINST eBay policy to list items for sale that are not available. Sellers aren't ALLOWED to have a "fill percentage" less than 100% on eBay.

And yes, I asked for the book to be shipped out for free, and they didn't choose to "proactively appease this buyer's needs."

Foiled again, you are.

You know, if we're focusing on "policy."

In business, "beyond your control" is relative as to how the business defines their processes; it can relate to systemic issues, human error etc..etc.. with the resolution of reimbursement clearly stated as acceptable solution IN the link you provided. You acknowledge an error was made when filling the error, stopping that error was "beyond their control".

If you run into an inventory problem that's beyond your control, you're still responsible for letting the buyer know when the item will be available or issuing a refund for the full amount immediately.

Regards,

Bucky

:gossip: You're going to hurt yourself with those semantical gymnastics...

Since they had the issue, and subsequently shipped the issue, it clearly was not "beyond their control" to ship the issue in the first place by any reaosnable definition of "beyond their control."

Again...nice try.

RockMyAmadeus · November 29, 2011

That must have been your largest quote-fest. Ever.

Not even in the top 10.

I smell points, too.

Why?

The discussion has been quite polite.

:shrug:

DiceX · November 29, 2011

That must have been your largest quote-fest. Ever.

I smell points, too.

That's the only reason I'm posting in the thread.

I'm trying to prevent him from making three consecutive posts, thus causing the thread to automatically lock.

RockMyAmadeus · November 29, 2011

That must have been your largest quote-fest. Ever.

I smell points, too.

That's the only reason I'm posting in the thread.

I'm trying to prevent him from making three consecutive posts, thus causing the thread to automatically lock.

What happens if someone says "DiceX, DiceX, DiceX" ten times in the mirror...?

Sal · November 29, 2011

Holy mother of G-d.

Okay, new policy; "If you happen to be that one out of 200 for whom we have delivered the wrong book, we will do whatever it takes to rectify the problem."

There.

And RMA, dude, no one is reading all that. You are especially obligated to drop a few tl;dr executive summaries in there, especially if you're going to be taking up all those pixels

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