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What would you do, Part the Second...

Started by RockMyAmadeus,

1,096 posts in this topic

bababooey

bababooey

Posted
Posted

I can appreciate the reasoning for the policy stated; Conan acknowledges that it isn't perfect.

 

There's clearly a "fill percentage" listed as a warning to buyers - on the original transaction MyComicShop was out of pocket because of the error - they issued a credit for a book that was shipped in error & RMA kept that book. There were other errors made but no indication of whether credit was sought for all errors.

 

With fill rate notification all parties should be satisfied even though the book RMA sought was not supplied. The whole :blahblah: about one book being the impetus for the order is irrelevant.

 

End of transaction.

 

Then RMA chooses to visit their website attempting to locate the copy that was missed in his first order due to a picking error. The expectation of free shipping due to an error for a past transaction is presumptuous to say the least, there is no indication of any customer service related discussion prior to placing the order (which may have allowed them to proactively appease this buyer's needs) To presume a retroactive credit would be issued for freight when the initiation of the steps taken when placing the second order are not well explained may be a factor affecting their reliance on policy to address an unpleasant customer experience.

 

In RMA's own words, the policy he agreed to when ordering was contrary to what he wanted: "I didn't want the refund, I wanted the book"

 

But...I didn't want the refund, I wanted the book. It's a tough, tough book to find, even if it's not worth anything.

 

So, I write. The response I get is canned "we only issue refunds", yadda blah, etc.

 

So, on a hunch, I go to said dealer's website.

 

Book is available (of course.)

 

So, I buy the book through the website...and, instead of giving me "free" shipping (since, after all, I'd already PAID the shipping), I'm charged another S&H fee.

 

Lo and behold, the correct book finally arrives, me having paid S&H for it twice.

 

So, I write back. I'm told that "sorry, but our current policy is to refund for mistakes, not to ship out the ACTUAL CORRECT ITEMS (emphasis mine.)"

 

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Rawhide

Rawhide

Posted
Posted
I can appreciate the reasoning for the policy stated; Conan acknowledges that it isn't perfect.

 

There's clearly a "fill percentage" listed as a warning to buyers - on the original transaction MyComicShop was out of pocket because of the error - they issued a credit for a book that was shipped in error & RMA kept that book. There were other errors made but no indication of whether credit was sought for all errors.

 

With fill rate notification all parties should be satisfied even though the book RMA sought was not supplied. The whole :blahblah: about one book being the impetus for the order is irrelevant.

 

End of transaction.

 

Then RMA chooses to visit their website attempting to locate the copy that was missed in his first order due to a picking error. The expectation of free shipping due to an error for a past transaction is presumptuous to say the least, there is no indication of any customer service related discussion prior to placing the order (which may have allowed them to proactively appease this buyer's needs) To presume a retroactive credit would be issued for freight when the initiation of the steps taken when placing the second order are not well explained may be a factor affecting their reliance on policy to address an unpleasant customer experience.

 

In RMA's own words, the policy he agreed to when ordering was contrary to what he wanted: "I didn't want the refund, I wanted the book"

 

But...I didn't want the refund, I wanted the book. It's a tough, tough book to find, even if it's not worth anything.

 

So, I write. The response I get is canned "we only issue refunds", yadda blah, etc.

 

So, on a hunch, I go to said dealer's website.

 

Book is available (of course.)

 

So, I buy the book through the website...and, instead of giving me "free" shipping (since, after all, I'd already PAID the shipping), I'm charged another S&H fee.

 

Lo and behold, the correct book finally arrives, me having paid S&H for it twice.

 

So, I write back. I'm told that "sorry, but our current policy is to refund for mistakes, not to ship out the ACTUAL CORRECT ITEMS (emphasis mine.)"

 

:o

 

No you didn't...

 

:baiting:

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comicdonna

comicdonna

Posted
Posted
How about, whenever possible, regarding transactions as not just business but instead relationships, albeit at a distance, between human beings?
Yep! Any successful business needs to be flexible. Especially reguarding customer relations.
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Prince Namor

Prince Namor

Posted
Posted

In retail, they say it isn't the customer that complains that I'm worried about (It's easy to fix their problem), it's the customer who DOESN'T say anything that a business has to worry about (Because they'll just go elsewhere and you'll never know).

 

Really I'm kind of surprised that Conan wouldn't have just taken care of this and made Lone Star look like the good guys.

 

There are a lot of comic buyers reading this thread and giving opinion's, but even more who are saying nothing...

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Gatchaman

Gatchaman

Posted
Posted

But, in your attempt to save on spending another $3.95 on shipping (which is actually under $3.00 media for one comic) you could be losing hundreds of dollars that could be spent by returning customers.

 

Also, RMA isn't contesting that you refund his shipping, he is contending the fact that the same book was on your website and he had to order it from there and pay for the shipping again.

 

What I am seeing is that you value your customer's patronage on a $1.10 comic book instead of looking at the overall past, current, and future transactions. Are you willing to chase off a customer over $1.10? Event though the book may be $1.10 it is worth more to the buyer than that because they have an emotional interest in it and all you see it as is $1.00

 

The fallback on trying to save yourself $3.00 on a book to satisfy this customer has been brought to one forum out of many that exist where many current and/or future customers will see how this is handled and may decide to not buy from you again or at all.

 

I was a sales rep for a soccer company that sold equipment all over the US. The owners were always chasing off customers who spent thousands of dollars with us because they followed the same policies. Remember, there are a lot of other people to buy from. Sometimes it is our customer service that will distinguish who is better to buy from.

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comicdonna

comicdonna

Posted
Posted
In retail, they say it isn't the customer that complains that I'm worried about (It's easy to fix their problem), it's the customer who DOESN'T say anything that a business has to worry about (Because they'll just go elsewhere and you'll never know).

 

Really I'm kind of surprised that Conan wouldn't have just taken care of this and made Lone Star look like the good guys.

 

There are a lot of comic buyers reading this thread and giving opinion's, but even more who are saying nothing...

As he stated, it's not his call.

that's something Buddy prefers not to do. I, personally, might choose differently, but it's not my call.

 

 

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comix4fun

comix4fun

Posted
Posted
I can appreciate the reasoning for the policy stated; Conan acknowledges that it isn't perfect.

 

There's clearly a "fill percentage" listed as a warning to buyers - on the original transaction MyComicShop was out of pocket because of the error - they issued a credit for a book that was shipped in error & RMA kept that book. There were other errors made but no indication of whether credit was sought for all errors.

 

With fill rate notification all parties should be satisfied even though the book RMA sought was not supplied. The whole :blahblah: about one book being the impetus for the order is irrelevant.

 

End of transaction.

 

Then RMA chooses to visit their website attempting to locate the copy that was missed in his first order due to a picking error. The expectation of free shipping due to an error for a past transaction is presumptuous to say the least, there is no indication of any customer service related discussion prior to placing the order (which may have allowed them to proactively appease this buyer's needs) To presume a retroactive credit would be issued for freight when the initiation of the steps taken when placing the second order are not well explained may be a factor affecting their reliance on policy to address an unpleasant customer experience.

 

In RMA's own words, the policy he agreed to when ordering was contrary to what he wanted: "I didn't want the refund, I wanted the book"

 

But...I didn't want the refund, I wanted the book. It's a tough, tough book to find, even if it's not worth anything.

 

So, I write. The response I get is canned "we only issue refunds", yadda blah, etc.

 

So, on a hunch, I go to said dealer's website.

 

Book is available (of course.)

 

So, I buy the book through the website...and, instead of giving me "free" shipping (since, after all, I'd already PAID the shipping), I'm charged another S&H fee.

 

Lo and behold, the correct book finally arrives, me having paid S&H for it twice.

 

So, I write back. I'm told that "sorry, but our current policy is to refund for mistakes, not to ship out the ACTUAL CORRECT ITEMS (emphasis mine.)"

 

 

 

Did you miss the part where Conan said that the policy he posted here was not in place until AFTER RMA made his purchase and had his problem?

 

In response to RMA's issue in this thread, I have modified our eBay listing template, see "1. Item Availability" under the section titled "IMPORTANT: Please read this before buying". The modified text, with new language to specifically address RMA's concern, is as follows:

 

Because I didn't. (thumbs u

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bababooey

bababooey

Posted
Posted

Did you miss the part where Conan said that the policy he posted here was not in place until AFTER RMA made his purchase and had his problem?

 

In response to RMA's issue in this thread, I have modified our eBay listing template, see "1. Item Availability" under the section titled "IMPORTANT: Please read this before buying". The modified text, with new language to specifically address RMA's concern, is as follows:

 

Because I didn't. (thumbs u

I saw the new one & the explanation but I thought they always had a fill rate disclaimer that was slightly less wordy than this one. I thought only the last sentence or two had been added.

 

(shrug)

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

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I believe RMA is talking about an order he made with us.

 

Correct.

 

He ordered 37 comics. Looks like almost all were 2nd printings, later printings, or newsstand editions. Of the 37 he ordered, 4 were found not to be available--our computer thought we had them but they weren't on shelf. Our fill rate averages 99.5%--for every 200 items ordered, there's 1 item that our computer thinks we have in stock that we discover we don't actually have. I'd attribute the higher number of misses in this case to RMA targeting somewhat unusual issues compared to the typical customer--issues that don't get ordered very often, so old errors in our inventory are less likely to have already been discovered and corrected.

 

Fair enough, and let me emphatically state right now that being out of stock was not, and has never been, the issue with this transaction.

 

It is against eBay policy to list items that aren't available, and thus Lonestar's policies are in direct contradiction to eBay's, but more on that later.

 

Let me say that again, because I know it will be missed if I don't: having items be out of stock...even on eBay...was not, and has never been, the issue.

 

Moving on...

 

We sent him 33 comics for our eBay $3.95 flat rate shipping. I understand there were two errors in what we sent. A Man of Steel where he ordered a 5th printing but got the 1st, and an X-Men 2099 newsstand issue (not sure what that error was--maybe not the newsstand edition). He was refunded the $1.10 and $1.30 purchase prices, respectively. He was not refunded the $3.95 shipping since the shipment included 31 other comics besides the two for which he was refunded.

 

Let me also state THIS emphatically: a refund of the original shipping cost has also never been the issue. I bought items, I received items. I never asked for, nor expected, a refund of the original shipping cost.

 

The error with the X-Men 2099 #25 was that I was sent an X-Men #25 (the issue where Magneto rips the metal out of Wolvie's body, with the hologram cover.) Not even the same title, and the invoice specifically identified it as the newsstand issue, and the copy of a different title that I received says "Direct Edition" right on the (back) cover. meh

 

Sloppy.

 

A copy of the Man of Steel 5th printing that RMA wants is still listed in stock. He's welcome to order it as a new order, either by itself or with other items, subject to the standard shipping terms ($3.95 flat rate if ordered through eBay; free shipping on orders over $50 if ordered through our web site; etc.). Nobody is forcing a "second" shipping charge on RMA--he just didn't get one comic he wanted.

 

And here we get to the real issue:

 

LONESTAR HAD THE BOOK THE WHOLE TIME, and could have sent it out at ANY time!

 

When I hit the refund brick wall on ebay, I went to your site and ORDERED the copy, because Man of Steel #18 5th Printing is a fantastically rare item. Is it worth anything? No, not at present. Is it incredibly difficult to find? Yes, because the majority of them, if they weren't hucked, are still locked up inside collector packs.

 

I WANTED a copy of the book, because I don't HAVE it. It was, as stated before, the reason for this whole order.

 

Someone in your fulfillment dept. made a mistake. They sent the wrong printing. Ok, no big deal. Mistakes happen.

 

But when I notified Lonestar through the eBay message system, I was told the same thing that Conan is saying here: sorry, our policy doesn't send out "replacement" copies (see below)", yadda yadda yadda. It was very short, very abrupt, and, frankly, quite rude.

 

It wasn't that Lonestar didn't HAVE the book...THAT I would understand...it's the Lonestar simply refused to fix THEIR mistake.

 

So, I thought, "Conan approached me last year and wanted my opinion on how to make Lonestar better...I bet HE can help!"

 

So I wrote to Conan.

 

And got the same "this is our policy" brick wall you all see here.

 

:eyeroll:

 

Nothing infuriates me more than people hiding behind "policy"...it's YOUR company (especially true in YOUR case, Conan, though you may not own it yet), and YOU can set aside "policy" any time you want.

 

ESPECIALLY if YOU made the mistake.

 

But, no, brick wall, brick wall, brick wall.

 

And for what?

 

$1.20.

 

One dollar and twenty cents.

 

Apparently, Conan also isn't aware that the cost to ship ONE book is only $1.50, not $3.95, so....brush up, Conan.

 

"Feel free to purchase the book again, but you'll have to pay the shipping cost (even though it was our mistake, and we should send it out to you for free...book AND shipping...just for customer relations' sake.)

 

The book was actually 80 cents on the site, with $1.50 shipping, for a total of $2.30.

 

Since I'd already been willing to pay $1.10 for it through eBay, the actual difference I'm rightfully due was $1.20.

 

Tell me...how much is this bad publicity worth...? Bit more than $1.20, no?

 

Even though our computer shows that we still have the desired Man of Steel 5th printing in stock, we told RMA that we do not send out free of charge replacement copies.

 

You really need to stop saying "replacement copies." You cannot send a REPLACEMENT for an item that you never sent in the first place. "Replacement" is for items that were, perhaps, damaged in shipping...not the wrong item altogether.

 

After all, if someone buys an Amazing Spiderman #1 from you, and you send them the Marvel Milestone Edition reprint, would you consider the ACTUAL book bought a "replacement"? Of course not, and you'd be a fool to refund that $2,000, $3,000, $5,000 purchase just because some chowderhead in your fulfillment dept. doesn't know their job.

 

So what's different here? Only the price. You didn't send out the right item to begin with...therefore, you can't POSSIBLY send a "replacement" for it.

 

And this Ad School 101 semantical nonsense that it's "free of charge" is just that: nonsense. It's not "free of charge", nor do I expect it to be. I ALREADY PAID for it, for crying out loud!

 

When a large percentage of the items you sell are $1.00-$2.00 comics, sending out shipments to replace a single item is expensive.

 

Well, hey, thre's an easy solution to this: don't make the mistakes in the first place.

 

I know, crazy.

 

Most of our customers order from us frequently, so if we sent a wrong item, we'll refund it and then it's not a problem for the customer to throw the replacement copy in with their next order.

 

That wouldn't have been a problem for me, either...had I been thinking of buying more soon. But I wasn't. Then what...?

 

Maybe they have enough items in the order to qualify for free shipping, maybe they don't, but bundling multiple items together in an order helps minimize the amount of dollars going to shipping rather than comics.

 

We believe this policy works well for us and our customers.

 

Of course you believe it works well for you! You don't have to do anything to fix your mistakes!

 

And yes, you're right...it also works very well for you because you are big enough to shed customers who expect you to do what you say you'll do. I guarantee you, it does NOT work for your customers who order things, and then they don't show up. I know you don't consider this, and it's not THAT big a deal, but the shipping cost is mitigated...spread out...over a large amount of books. The fewer books in the shipment that actually get shipped, the higher per unit shipping cost.

 

Again, not a BIG issue, but it still exists.

 

Everything's a trade-off, and cost-conscious decisions like these are part of what allow us to provide the industry's largest selection of comics at low prices.

 

This is a copout. Everything shouldn't have to be a "trade-off" for your customers. They should be able to buy what you have sell, and not have to "settle" because you folks don't care enough to really make your system top notch.

 

Because that's really the bottom line. You guys have, indeed, "traded off" stellar customer service for cost/benefit analysis that says you can do "just enough" and get away with it. That's just, at its core, corporate laziness.

 

Lots of other national corporations, especially those dealing in unique items, keep meticulous track of their inventory at all times. They have to, or they won't survive. It's just in the comics world that dealers can be lazy and get away with it, because you service addicts.

 

There are other dealers that have more generous return/replacement terms than we do, but none with the selection and prices we provide.

 

Baloney.

 

I've bought the EXACT same types of items from Mile High and others, at EXACTLY the same prices (or much less, since I buy quantity), and have NEVER, EVER run into "well, we have it in stock, but we can't be bothered to send it out to you, so we'll jsut refund you, cause it's easier."

 

EVER.

 

In fact, Mile High has made mistakes, and when called, I have been told "we'll send out the correct issue, in the correct grade, and you keep the one you got for free."

 

meh

 

You should consider the implication about being unfavorably compared to Mile High.

 

In answer to RMA's "what should I do?", I'd look at it like this: "I got 31 comics I wanted, many at $1.10 a piece, for $3.95 shipping. It probably would have cost quite a bit more, and required multiple orders from multiple dealers, to get those comics elsewhere.

 

See, this is just the polite way of saying "screw you, comics addict...TRY and find it elsewhere for a better price! SUCKA!!!

 

But the fact is, I can, and have, and will continue to do so.

 

Conan's trying to tell me "you got a good price anyways, so I don't know why you're not satisfied."

 

How many times have you all heard THAT line..?

 

And how many times has it EVER been appropriate...?

 

That argument FAILS, because if I had no choice but to pay more for them, guess what: I don't buy them. Cause let me tell you, most of the people reading this think I'm INSANE for paying $1.10 for mid-grade drek from the 90's.

 

$1.10 ain't that great a price, Conan.

 

I didn't get one comic I particularly wanted, but I got my money back with no hassle.

 

No hassle? Of COURSE there was hassle! This is the end result of that hassle. Because I didn't WANT the refund. I wanted the item I BOUGHT, that YOU still HAD!

 

I'll either pay the $1.10 plus $3.95 to order a replacement,

 

Again...the shipping cost for the one book was $1.50, NOT $3.95...and paying $5.05 for a book that I'd ALREADY BOUGHT AND PAID THE SHIPPING FOR is FIVE TIMES crazier than buying the book for $1.10!

 

Fools and their money are soon parted, and only fools make such purchases if they can avoid it.

 

or wait a few weeks until they have some more comics that I want so that the $3.95 shipping cost is covering more than just one comic,

 

You're presuming I want anything else. What if I don't?

 

or order $50 worth of comics and pay no shipping at all."

 

lol

 

"Here, we'll send it out to you free, if you buy more stuff you may or may not really want."

 

(thumbs u

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Prince Namor

Prince Namor

Posted
Posted

RMA never fails to deliver.

 

"After all, if someone buys an Amazing Spiderman #1 from you, and you send them the Marvel Milestone Edition reprint, would you consider the ACTUAL book bought a "replacement"? Of course not, and you'd be a fool to refund that $2,000, $3,000, $5,000 purchase just because some chowderhead in your fulfillment dept. doesn't know their job."

 

Just classic.

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