Buying key books graded - raw vs CGC

[NP_Gresham]

Let me tell you my friend,when you deal with the big boy keys you should get them already graded.Or deal with someone who is VERY trust worthy,no ebay BS.Only deal with reliable board members Flaming Telepath,GAtor,Dale,Bob Storms etc.you know who they are.I buy graded because I don't like to deal with the BS of getting a book graded and God forbid it comes back a PLOD,then dealing with getting a refund........

 

That is sometimes hard to define as I just got PLOD back that I purchased here on the boards from a long time seller.

Detecting micro trimming is hard for even the best of intentioned sellers.

[KEY ISSUES Comics]

Let me tell you my friend,when you deal with the big boy keys you should get them already graded.Or deal with someone who is VERY trust worthy,no ebay BS.Only deal with reliable board members Flaming Telepath,GAtor,Dale,Bob Storms etc.you know who they are.I buy graded because I don't like to deal with the BS of getting a book graded and God forbid it comes back a PLOD,then dealing with getting a refund........

 

That is sometimes hard to define as I just got PLOD back that I purchased here on the boards from a long time seller.

Detecting micro trimming is hard for even the best of intentioned sellers.

Exactly. No one is perfect. Hence, my decision to go with CGC. They're not perfect either, but this is their full-time job with state-of-the-art restoration-detection resources at their disposal.

[skypinkblu]

And ultimately, I can live with slight resto of a certain sort on a big key book. A bit of glue or a spot of colour touch isn't the end of the world. It's a shame ALL purple labels act as such a stigma.

 

 

I happily buy those rejects, I have a few "high dollar" books in very pretty purple labels. I paid a fraction of what I'd have to pay to buy them with blue labels and if they are going to be read, or stay in Cases, the color touch or glue doesn't bother me...as long as I know about it first. Same reason I'd buy a key book that was disclosed as restored, but was raw. I don't have to have that book in plastic,I know if't restored. It's amazing how much less some of those books go for. Cheaper, more common books are plentiful,and there is no reason to buy them restored, but for keys, if you know it's restored to begin with, no worries...and lots of people off these boards, are thrilled to own them.

 

[KEY ISSUES Comics]

And ultimately, I can live with slight resto of a certain sort on a big key book. A bit of glue or a spot of colour touch isn't the end of the world. It's a shame ALL purple labels act as such a stigma.

 

 

I happily buy those rejects, I have a few "high dollar" books in very pretty purple labels. I paid a fraction of what I'd have to pay to buy them with blue labels and if they are going to be read, or stay in Cases, the color touch or glue doesn't bother me...as long as I know about it first. Same reason I'd buy a key book that was disclosed as restored, but was raw. I don't have to have that book in plastic,I know if't restored. It's amazing how much less some of those books go for. Cheaper, more common books are plentiful,and there is no reason to buy them restored, but for keys, if you know it's restored to begin with, no worries...and lots of people off these boards, are thrilled to own them.

Amen.

[chunkybutt]

 

There are dealers who will come to that sort of arrangement. I doubt they would do it as far as CGC grade is concerned.

 

A very good point to consider when purchasing raw books, even from a reputable dealer. The dealer may stand behind the resto issue but not on the grade. When dealing with Big Boy books a .5 difference may mean thousands of dollars. I feel safer buying an already slabbed book, period.

 

I think you'd be very hard pressed to find a dealer that would offer a guarantee of CGC grade (do they even exist?).

 

And, why would they offer that? It would be foolish as there isn't any collector that is going to pay them additional juice if the guaranteed grade came back higher than advertised.

 

The owner of my local comic shop has told me several times (never put it in writing) that if a book I buy comes back a lower grade, to bring it back and he will refund my money.

We never discussed who is responsible for slabbing fees, but a half dozen keys/semi-keys I have submitted have all come back spot on grade or .5 higher than it was advertised.

 

I do not hesitate to buy any book from him. Ebay frightens me with raw books.

 

So I usually buy mine from here or at a con from a reputable dealer.

[lolocopter]

I don't mind buying raw. I'm more of a reader/completest and while everyone would love a beautiful high grade slabbed collection, I just can't justify dropping hundreds of dollars on single issues.

 

I just picked up X-Men #9, 30, 42 for $45 total and are in readable condition with some wear and tear here and there.

 

I'll buy up all your raws

[cd4ever]

I primarily collect raw books and only slab for the resto check on HG GA or if I think I can get one of those silly 9.6 or above numbers that will be an immediate flip. I enjoy flipping thru the pages and seeing the art and ads.

 

I don't really buy high priced keys these day as I would prefer a stack of nice non-keys for the same price.

 

Having said that, those HG keys are the ones most likely to get restored by ebay punks for a quick sale to an unsuspecting buyer. So if I were buying those types of books, I'd buy raw from people I know and/or trust or buy slabbed.

 

 

 

[stevefish-migration]

i once bought a detective 27 restored from the "broadway manhattan big boys"it was not in a holder,after several months a friend of mine spoted the book pre restoration in a H A auction blue labled at 1.5 with a hugh piece out of back cover,i called around to find the restorer only to find the back cover was married ,when i brought this to steves wifes attention,he swore they had no knowledge of this ,hmmmmmmm+++96

[davidhartnyc-migration]

I would say if you're just going to buy a raw book and send it in to CGC and have it slabbed, you might as well just buy it slabbed to begin with

 

Unless it's super scarce and you can only find a raw copy...

[seanfingh]

i once bought a detective 27 restored from the "broadway manhattan big boys"it was not in a holder,after several months a friend of mine spoted the book pre restoration in a H A auction blue labled at 1.5 with a hugh piece out of back cover,i called around to find the restorer only to find the back cover was married ,when i brought this to steves wifes attention,he swore they had no knowledge of this ,hmmmmmmm+++96

 

[Hamlet]

The advantage of collecting in very low grades is that if you miss restoration it isn't nearly as big a deal financially.

 

"I found out this ASM 9 has some color touch"

 

"Dude, it's got 3-ring binder holes punched through it. I wouldn't sweat the color touch"

 

 

I don't mind buying raw. I'm more of a reader/completest and while everyone would love a beautiful high grade slabbed collection, I just can't justify dropping hundreds of dollars on single issues.

 

I just picked up X-Men #9, 30, 42 for $45 total and are in readable condition with some wear and tear here and there.

 

I'll buy up all your raws

[burntboy]

And ultimately, I can live with slight resto of a certain sort on a big key book. A bit of glue or a spot of colour touch isn't the end of the world. It's a shame ALL purple labels act as such a stigma.

 

 

I happily buy those rejects, I have a few "high dollar" books in very pretty purple labels. I paid a fraction of what I'd have to pay to buy them with blue labels and if they are going to be read, or stay in Cases, the color touch or glue doesn't bother me...as long as I know about it first. Same reason I'd buy a key book that was disclosed as restored, but was raw. I don't have to have that book in plastic,I know if't restored. It's amazing how much less some of those books go for. Cheaper, more common books are plentiful,and there is no reason to buy them restored, but for keys, if you know it's restored to begin with, no worries...and lots of people off these boards, are thrilled to own them.

 

I agree with you here, Sharon.

 

I've picked up beautiful restored cpies of books like Tec 33, AA 19, Marvel Mystery 4, HT 3 (2), All Star 3, Flash 1, Showcase 4, Mask 1 ,etc.

 

No way in the world could I spring for those books in Blue Labels except at FAR lower grades. I'd rather they look prettier and cost me far less...

[Racer-X]

I tried to do a search, assuming this topic was probably discussed before - but I couldn't find anything. But, if there is, Blowie will tell me.

 

This year, I'm trying to focus on getting some Big Boy key books (JIM 83, X-Men 1, etc) and I've been going back and forth, wondering if I should try to buy raw or continue buying them slabbed in the grades I can afford.

 

The issue that concerns me is buying a raw, sending it in and getting the dreaded PLOD/GLOD because there is something wrong with the book that wasn't disclosed, or I didn't catch. Or, I buy a 3.0 raw, and it comes back as a 2.0, etc. Personally, I have had good experiences buying my key books slabbed, and I like the idea of buying an exact grade. The part I struggle with is the potential of buying a higher grade raw book, getting it slabbed and ending up with a better book than I could have originally afforded slabbed.

 

I know the upside to buying raw is that it's cheaper than buying it slabbed. The downside to buying raw is that there is an element of risk to buying the book.

The upside to buying it slabbed is that you get what is advertised. The downside is that you're paying the value of the book and the fees associated with slabbing.

 

I guess I'm looking to boardies for insight or personal philosophies in how they consider purchasing expensive books, and if they prefer one over the other.

 

 

 

My 2 cents -

 

Can buy ebay raw only if seller offers a return, ideally of 2 weeks. Then u could get it off to CCG asap and get it back in time to see if it's PLOD. Can also get seller to state through ebay messages that should it be returned PLOD etc. they'll give u a partial refund. I've learned the perils of buying raw the hard way, but have also had some BIG gains from the raw books I've had slabbed and have come back Blue.

 

From other members' comments to me, you could perhaps also shop for a key already slabbed that looks to have the potential of being pressed, hoping for an upgrade on a re-slab. Perhaps this is the safest way to go...

 

 

[Tony S]

I tried to do a search, assuming this topic was probably discussed before - but I couldn't find anything. But, if there is, Blowie will tell me.

 

This year, I'm trying to focus on getting some Big Boy key books (JIM 83, X-Men 1, etc) and I've been going back and forth, wondering if I should try to buy raw or continue buying them slabbed in the grades I can afford.

 

The issue that concerns me is buying a raw, sending it in and getting the dreaded PLOD/GLOD because there is something wrong with the book that wasn't disclosed, or I didn't catch. Or, I buy a 3.0 raw, and it comes back as a 2.0, etc. Personally, I have had good experiences buying my key books slabbed, and I like the idea of buying an exact grade. The part I struggle with is the potential of buying a higher grade raw book, getting it slabbed and ending up with a better book than I could have originally afforded slabbed.

 

I know the upside to buying raw is that it's cheaper than buying it slabbed. The downside to buying raw is that there is an element of risk to buying the book.

 

The upside to buying it slabbed is that you get what is advertised. The downside is that you're paying the value of the book and the fees associated with slabbing.

 

I guess I'm looking to boardies for insight or personal philosophies in how they consider purchasing expensive books, and if they prefer one over the other.

 

I wanted to reply to the original post since the thread has turned to a discussion of buying restored higher grades vs unrestored lower grades.

 

There is an underlying assumption on this post that is not always true. Which is that you can purchase a "raw" (I hate that term) key issue for substantially less than already professionally graded. That is not necessarily true.

 

There are so many collectors trying to do just that - many of those same collectors with inadequate grading skills - that oftentimes a big key issue is selling for as much or more than what it brings already slabbed. I have seen this happen over and over again on eBay.

 

Just in the past month a friend of mine here - owns a small comic shop - had an AF 15 walk in the door. Purchased it and put it on ebay with a gazillion pictures but no actual grade stated. I thought the book would grade 3.0. It sold for about $4800. Three weeks later the book was for sale on ebay - now CGC graded. A 3.0. It sold for about $50 less than the seller paid. PLUS he was out the significant cost of grading and shipping and ebay fees.

 

I think this scenario is more common with the lower grades- but it happens with high grade stuff too. Once again the buyer convinces themselves they are getting a 9.4 book for the 9.0 price. But as we all know, they are some really good looking 8.0/8.5's out there that you look at and go "hmm - I wonder why.."

 

I've rambled. But my main point is that there are so many collectors looking buy raw, slab and make a nice profit that really there are not many of these bargains to be found. Instead there are a lot of collectors that convince themselves a 3.0 will get 4.0 and plenty of dealers glad to let the fantasy play (and pay)

 

If you can get a decent deal on a raw key from a dealer/seller that will take it back shoud it come back graded restored or qualified I say go for it. I think it's unreasonable - and don't know any dealers that would - take it back if it grades lower than expected. Unless you have agreed to pay them more if comes back nicer...

[Racer-X]

I tried to do a search, assuming this topic was probably discussed before - but I couldn't find anything. But, if there is, Blowie will tell me.

 

This year, I'm trying to focus on getting some Big Boy key books (JIM 83, X-Men 1, etc) and I've been going back and forth, wondering if I should try to buy raw or continue buying them slabbed in the grades I can afford.

 

The issue that concerns me is buying a raw, sending it in and getting the dreaded PLOD/GLOD because there is something wrong with the book that wasn't disclosed, or I didn't catch. Or, I buy a 3.0 raw, and it comes back as a 2.0, etc. Personally, I have had good experiences buying my key books slabbed, and I like the idea of buying an exact grade. The part I struggle with is the potential of buying a higher grade raw book, getting it slabbed and ending up with a better book than I could have originally afforded slabbed.

 

I know the upside to buying raw is that it's cheaper than buying it slabbed. The downside to buying raw is that there is an element of risk to buying the book.

 

The upside to buying it slabbed is that you get what is advertised. The downside is that you're paying the value of the book and the fees associated with slabbing.

 

I guess I'm looking to boardies for insight or personal philosophies in how they consider purchasing expensive books, and if they prefer one over the other.

 

I wanted to reply to the original post since the thread has turned to a discussion of buying restored higher grades vs unrestored lower grades.

 

There is an underlying assumption on this post that is not always true. Which is that you can purchase a "raw" (I hate that term) key issue for substantially less than already professionally graded. That is not necessarily true.

 

There are so many collectors trying to do just that - many of those same collectors with inadequate grading skills - that oftentimes a big key issue is selling for as much or more than what it brings already slabbed. I have seen this happen over and over again on eBay.

 

Just in the past month a friend of mine here - owns a small comic shop - had an AF 15 walk in the door. Purchased it and put it on ebay with a gazillion pictures but no actual grade stated. I thought the book would grade 3.0. It sold for about $4800. Three weeks later the book was for sale on ebay - now CGC graded. A 3.0. It sold for about $50 less than the seller paid. PLUS he was out the significant cost of grading and shipping and ebay fees.

 

I think this scenario is more common with the lower grades- but it happens with high grade stuff too. Once again the buyer convinces themselves they are getting a 9.4 book for the 9.0 price. But as we all know, they are some really good looking 8.0/8.5's out there that you look at and go "hmm - I wonder why.."

 

I've rambled. But my main point is that there are so many collectors looking buy raw, slab and make a nice profit that really there are not many of these bargains to be found. Instead there are a lot of collectors that convince themselves a 3.0 will get 4.0 and plenty of dealers glad to let the fantasy play (and pay)

 

If you can get a decent deal on a raw key from a dealer/seller that will take it back shoud it come back graded restored or qualified I say go for it. I think it's unreasonable - and don't know any dealers that would - take it back if it grades lower than expected. Unless you have agreed to pay them more if comes back nicer...

 

in response to this, when I do buy raw from ebay (which is rarely these days), I always back the stated grade down by at least a point if not 2. Not only to compensate for the seller's potential over-grading, but also to compensate for flaws undetected in the photos.

 

And again, I have bought some nice raw books - amazing man 5 (1), sub-mariner 3, human torch 4 (3), some detectives - that came back graded dead-on or close to my estimate and Blue. I think there's a better chance of buying raw unrestored Gold as many of those owners don't slab...

[Tony S]

You are smart to drop the grade down a point or two. Unfortunately a lot of buyers - with key books - delude themselves into a point or two higher.

 

I hadn't thought about the fact that fewer GA collectors slab than SA. I'm sure you are correct. Not sure if the knowledge is helpful to me. I'm a silver and bronze collector and I collect GA like I collect original art - which is I like to own a few nice items that represent the field.

 

That said, you can get some good deals on GA right now. Sure early Superman/Batman/Cap America are selling well and setting records, but there is a lot nice titles that are selling for substantially under guide.

[Flaming_Telepath]

I would say if you're just going to buy a raw book and send it in to CGC and have it slabbed, you might as well just buy it slabbed to begin with

 

Don't agree with this.

 

I agree with making informed purchases of raw books, but not that you should be avoiding raw books altogether.

[Dr. Balls]

[quote=Tony SBut my main point is that there are so many collectors looking buy raw, slab and make a nice profit that really there are not many of these bargains to be found. Instead there are a lot of collectors that convince themselves a 3.0 will get 4.0 and plenty of dealers glad to let the fantasy play (and pay)

 

If you can get a decent deal on a raw key from a dealer/seller that will take it back shoud it come back graded restored or qualified I say go for it. I think it's unreasonable - and don't know any dealers that would - take it back if it grades lower than expected. Unless you have agreed to pay them more if comes back nicer...

 

I agree - it's pretty easy to convince yourself how amazing a book can look raw, and how you can focus on the "success" stories that are around (the guy buying an 9.8 raw for a 8.0 price). I'm not into buying and selling, so the main goal for me is trying to get what I want out of my purchase, and not get hosed.

[Flaming_Telepath]

If you can get a decent deal on a raw key from a dealer/seller that will take it back shoud it come back graded restored or qualified I say go for it. I think it's unreasonable - and don't know any dealers that would - take it back if it grades lower than expected. Unless you have agreed to pay them more if comes back nicer...

 

Well now you do...

 

Returns/partial refunds are available if a book is graded by CGC up to one year after purchase and is assessed at more than one point below the grade stated by Comicana Direct at the time of sale. In these circumstances, return shipping will also be refunded.

[jimjum12]

And ultimately, I can live with slight resto of a certain sort on a big key book. A bit of glue or a spot of colour touch isn't the end of the world. It's a shame ALL purple labels act as such a stigma.

 

 

I happily buy those rejects, I have a few "high dollar" books in very pretty purple labels. I paid a fraction of what I'd have to pay to buy them with blue labels and if they are going to be read, or stay in Cases, the color touch or glue doesn't bother me...as long as I know about it first. Same reason I'd buy a key book that was disclosed as restored, but was raw. I don't have to have that book in plastic,I know if't restored. It's amazing how much less some of those books go for. Cheaper, more common books are plentiful,and there is no reason to buy them restored, but for keys, if you know it's restored to begin with, no worries...and lots of people off these boards, are thrilled to own them.

 

I agree with you here, Sharon.

 

I've picked up beautiful restored cpies of books like Tec 33, AA 19, Marvel Mystery 4, HT 3 (2), All Star 3, Flash 1, Showcase 4, Mask 1 ,etc.

 

No way in the world could I spring for those books in Blue Labels except at FAR lower grades. I'd rather they look prettier and cost me far less...

 

.....I did the same thing recently with an FF 5......I, too, prefer a nice book, and I got a slight pro resto copy...CGC 8.0...that looks more like a 9.0, for the price of an unrestored Fine. It has a 3/8's inch tear seal, slight color touch there, and cleaned staples....that's all. I don't regret it at all. If you really can't stand resto you should go slabbed. The difference between raw and slabbed is like the difference between shooting craps in a back alley or investing in stocks with your broker. The only other resto book I own is an FF 15 with "very small amountof glue on spine" that was missed by myself and several others. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u