Serious, yet Simple, Forum Sales Etiquette Question...

[Bio-Rupp]

I wouldn't be worried about it either sir. I'd take that book back in a heartbeat

[Foolkiller]

You do agree Harry that I was open in disclosing that the book was being purchased for resale? David was very blunt with me that he was buying the book for resale as well. He's been nothing but honest. And yes I'm biased because he and I have done past deals together but I have bought, sold and co-owned books with him and he's always been honest about his intentions with me.

 

Brian; I didn't know that your partner in the purchase was a dealer (until you handed me the check), but honestly, I don't see how that would have changed anything from my perspective.

 

I don't feel aggrieved over the two of you flipping it for a quick 25% profit. Happens all the time and so it goes...

 

My real concern is that a FMV $10,000 book gets flipped twice in two days and jumps from an $8,000 sale to a $10,000 sale to an asking price of $22,000 here in the For Sale Forum.

 

Quite frankly, I surprised at the outpouring of sympathy for a seller who flipped a cherished book (first origin of Batman) at 220% of what he paid the very day before and also 220% over a reasonable estimate of the books FMV, onto a potential unsuspecting Board Member who may still be so NAIVE as to believe that this is probably reasonable because we're a community here...

 

I TRULY UNDERSTAND that once it's yours you can do whatever the #$%@ you want with it, but that doesn't make it right...

 

Now to proceed through last nights late missives and see how further I've been fried...

 

I think the only thing I disagree with here Harry is that the entire premise of this debate is that $10k was THE price. I have to admit that there is obviously some miscalculation about what people may pay. The ask price is the ask price and because the value of collectibles fluctuates, it's really worth what someone will pay. People aren't going to pay a price for a book because of the "community".

[hockey&comicsguy]

People are responsible for educating themselves and determining what they are willing to spend on something. The owner of the book can ask whatever price they want and frankly people should mind their own business. I don't really think anything changes just because of the boards. Board members are no different and should do their due diligence. They dont need somebody playing mom for them and stirring up drama/krapping on somebody else's property and what they want to sell it for. In this instance, mind your own business

[drbanner]

People are responsible for educating themselves and determining what they are willing to spend on something. The owner of the book can ask whatever price they want and frankly people should mind their own business. I don't really think anything changes just because of the boards. Board members are no different and should do their due diligence. They dont need somebody playing mom for them and stirring up drama/krapping on somebody else's property and what they want to sell it for. In this instance, mind your own business

 

In a generic sense (nothing to do with the particulars of this thread), I have to say I disagree. As a community, we have an obligation to protect each other from fraudsters, hucksters, and PT Barnum pitch men (see the "Is it bad form if I" thread for an example of what I'm talking about). If I was a newbie getting into the hobby, or an old-timer coming back into the hobby but not current on the market, I know I'd appreciate it. Conversely, if I was a newbie getting into the hobby, or an old-timer coming back into the hobby and learned later that I way overpaid for a book I bought here, it would be a huge turnoff.

 

If somone comes on here and repeatedly tries to sell books way over FMV, then yeah, I'd like to see more threadkrapping with comments like "Nice book, do you think it's better than the copy on ebay for half your asking price (see link)?" People have a right to ask what they want, just as we all have a right to point out that their asking price is ridiculous.

[Shootydog]

So this is all about the asking price of a book. Not the actual selling price?

 

 

Really?

 

 

 

 

 

[skypinkblu]

I agree to the educating and people being responsible...but just a suggestion.

 

Years ago, when we actually KNEW the names of the bidders on eBay, people would buy stuff and then sell it the next day. There were lots of threads, gnashing of teeth, etc. Ebay was not quite as close a community as this place is.

 

I'd just suggest, that if you buy something from a boarder and want to sell it immediately, you sell it somewhere else. It's not that the boards are not an acceptable place to sell, but feelings will be hurt.

 

People might not be so quick to sell to you again...EVEN if you tell them you are going to flip the book, no one wants something mashed in their face...give the person who gave you a "deal" some breathing room before you show how much more you can get. Be kind and perhaps you will get more great deals.

[Bosco685]

So this is all about the asking price of a book. Not the actual selling price?

 

Really?

 

And someone is running a sales thread, reselling books for what he paid on the boards. Hopefully, nobody tells him he overpaid in the thread.

[Ghost Town]

People are responsible for educating themselves and determining what they are willing to spend on something. The owner of the book can ask whatever price they want and frankly people should mind their own business. I don't really think anything changes just because of the boards. Board members are no different and should do their due diligence. They dont need somebody playing mom for them and stirring up drama/krapping on somebody else's property and what they want to sell it for. In this instance, mind your own business

 

In a generic sense (nothing to do with the particulars of this thread), I have to say I disagree. As a community, we have an obligation to protect each other from fraudsters, hucksters, and PT Barnum pitch men (see the "Is it bad form if I" thread for an example of what I'm talking about). If I was a newbie getting into the hobby, or an old-timer coming back into the hobby but not current on the market, I know I'd appreciate it. Conversely, if I was a newbie getting into the hobby, or an old-timer coming back into the hobby and learned later that I way overpaid for a book I bought here, it would be a huge turnoff.

 

If somone comes on here and repeatedly tries to sell books way over FMV, then yeah, I'd like to see more threadkrapping with comments like "Nice book, do you think it's better than the copy on ebay for half your asking price (see link)?" People have a right to ask what they want, just as we all have a right to point out that their asking price is ridiculous.

I think I'm with you on this, drbanner. Comics General is usually full of posts with complaints and warnings about various sellers. I don't understand why that same board diligence shouldn't extend to the sales forums. I know there's the danger of threadkrapping on threads where it's not deserved. But in those cases, it seems like the krappers get destroyed by other boardies rising in defense of the seller.

[batman_fan]

It now shows sold on Ebay for $15k.

 

As far as no valid data in GPA, I must disagree. A 5.5 Det 33 with slight restoration sold for 10250 is 2008. I would say this is a relevant sale to use in gauging the value. Given this book was also slight restoration, higher grade, and a Pedigree. I would have assumed the value was higher than this price given how prices have gone up on pre Robin Detectives. That's just me and that is looking at it as a third party not a buyer. As a buyer, I guess the tendency would be to neglect that data point.

[Bio-Rupp]

I hear the logic in Sharon's comment about not wanting feelings to get hurt and I can understand drbanner in his statement that this type of immediate "in your face" flip might tick him off.

 

I understand that no one wants to be taken. Especially not here on the boards... but to think that someone would just throw down 20 grand for a book without a little research is hard for me to believe. I'm not saying that it can't or won't happen... but I am saying if it does... then 20 grand didn't mean that much to the buyer in the first place.

 

I am also not stating that that book is not worth 20 grand. We know for sure it was worth 8 grand... then 10 grand... and now it appears to be worth 15 grand. It has yet to be determined what its value is since it hasn't found its final, "non-flip buyer" yet... if there ever could be a "final non-flip buyer" since we all have to die sometime.

 

The hard cold truth is that once the seller agrees to a price and accepts that price and hands that book over in exchange for the agreed upon amount, that book and any future profit (wether it be two days or two years) made by the buyer is no longer the original seller's concern.

 

No offense meant to the OP but seriously, if a seller is that worried about a future flip and losing money on a book that he has sold (or is going to sell)... then they shouldn't have sold it in the first place.

 

 

[Foolkiller]

It now shows sold on Ebay for $15k.

 

As far as no valid data in GPA, I must disagree. A 5.5 Det 33 with slight restoration sold for 10250 is 2008. I would say this is a relevant sale to use in gauging the value. Given this book was also slight restoration, higher grade, and a Pedigree. I would have assumed the value was higher than this price given how prices have gone up on pre Robin Detectives. That's just me and that is looking at it as a third party not a buyer. As a buyer, I guess the tendency would be to neglect that data point.

 

We looked at this sale in GPA. The problem is, slight P about what the restoration was and one of the drivers is whether or not the restoration is removeable. With a piece being added on this book and some of the other resto, it wasn't reversible, which factored into my hesitancy about over paying.

[silverweb]

People buy to flip all the time. Some buy for their collections.

 

Making a profit after a mutually agreeable purchase where both a knowledgeable buyer and dealer/seller were honest with each other is reasonable to me. Free market capitalism, right? Brian does not need to defend himself here.

 

I feel Burntboy's pain, but sometimes you don't know everything at the time when you sell. Chalk it up as a lesson learned. I do think that putting a book up for sale at double the price on the forum when it was purchased within the forum community is bad form. Better to take it to Ebay or the auction houses.

 

The book has not sold for double. Maybe it won't obtain an "obscene" profit.

[DWL]

I hear the logic in Sharon's comment about not wanting feelings to get hurt and I can understand drbanner in his statement that this type of immediate "in your face" flip might tick him off.

 

I understand that no one wants to be taken. Especially not here on the boards... but to think that someone would just throw down 20 grand for a book without a little research is hard for me to believe. I'm not saying that it can't or won't happen... but I am saying if it does... then 20 grand didn't mean that much to the buyer in the first place.

 

I am also not stating that that book is not worth 20 grand. We know for sure it was worth 8 grand... then 10 grand... and now it appears to be worth 15 grand. It has yet to be determined what its value is since it hasn't found its final, "non-flip buyer" yet... if there ever could be a "final non-flip buyer" since we all have to die sometime.

 

The hard cold truth is that once the seller agrees to a price and accepts that price and hands that book over in exchange for the agreed upon amount, that book and any future profit (wether it be two days or two years) made by the buyer is no longer the original seller's concern.

 

No offense meant to the OP but seriously, if a seller is that worried about a future flip and losing money on a book that he has sold (or is going to sell)... then they shouldn't have sold it in the first place.

 

 

I agree completely.

 

It is nice that people here feel the need and desire to protect fellow board members, but that should only apply to sellers who are misleading or untrustworthy, not to an asking price.

 

What someone asks for a book is not something we should be commenting on under the guise of "protecting" board members.

 

As hockey&comicsguy said, we don't need someone to be our mother when it comes to the price people are asking for. This is a free market system, let's keep it that way.

[shadroch]

I've sold many books here for more than 220% of what I had just paid for them.

I don't think thats the problem.I think Harry sold a book to a friend and now sees it offered for so much more and is upset. Brian certainly seems to have tried to do his due dilegence about the FMV of the book and didn't make a killing off the flip.

David bought the book and thinks it will sell for about double what he paid for it. Thats certainly not a crazy profit margin, especially if he needs to sit on it awhile.

I can understand Harrys POV but don't think anyone did anything wrong here.

Perhaps it was poor form to offer it here, but this is where the buyers sometimes are.

Why give money to Heritage when it can all be kept here.

[MrBedrock]

My favorite part of the whole story is that some bigwig dealer was asked his opinion of FMV on this particular book and he said "$10,000".

 

The last confirmed sale of this particular book - $10,000!

 

[greggy]

My favorite part of the whole story is that some bigwig dealer was asked his opinion of FMV on this particular book and he said "$10,000".

 

The last confirmed sale of this particular book - $10,000!

 

[TupennyConan]

Bedrock & greggy with back-to-back posts.

 

So obvious.

 

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Bedrock & greggy with back-to-back posts.

 

So obvious.

 

 

Truth be told, you might be onto something Bill. Heck, now that I think about it, you never do see the two of them at the same place simultaneously. They even have the same rough height and body shape, making this ruse all the more feasible.

[burntboy]

My favorite part of the whole story is that some bigwig dealer was asked his opinion of FMV on this particular book and he said "$10,000".

 

The last confirmed sale of this particular book - $10,000!

 

 

Actually it sold early this morning on Ebay for $15,000.

 

Remind me never to consult with THAT bigwig dealer...

[Bio-Rupp]