Collectors of baseball cards striking out

[ComicConnoisseur]

I see the modern athletes on the cards play on tv all the time and vintage guys on espn classic. Actually see them more than super heroes.

 

There is still huge money in cards just like comics. Hot players and great old vintage especially company high graded stuff (PSA, BGS, BVG, KSA). I still collect vintage and my sone loves to buy new stuff with his favorite players on them.

 

Like comics the over produced cards of the early-mid 90's go for little as they were over produced and everyone seemed to collect them.

 

What a lot of my fellow comic book collectors aren`t realizing is every year in professional sports there is a new sports hero that creates new interest such as this past year Tim Tebow and Jeremy Lin, while with comics we are relying on the same old super hero characters every year to carry the hobby such as Batman,Superman,Green Lantern,Spider-man,X-men and the Avengers characters. Eventually people will grow tired of those characters I mentioned do to overuse. That`s why I applaud and embrace what the Walking Dead has done for comics. I have never seen so much excitement in this comic book hobby since the early 1990s.I thank the Walking Dead for jumpstarting the comic book hobby and creating new interest. (thumbs u

[jools&jim]

 

My point is that in 50 years, if and when traditional floppy comics are extinct, a run of pre-Robin 'Tecs will be worth more than it is today, because Batman will still be relevant and those books are integral to Batman's history.

 

That may very well be true. But the market for such items will necessarily be limited to the small, elite group of people who can afford them. That's more like an investor's niche than a mainstream hobby.

[MisterX]

The future belongs to those who show up for it.

 

Now this is a great quote!

[jools&jim]

 

The future belongs to those who show up for it.

 

Now this is a great quote!

 

I agree...but I can't take credit for it, so it obviously came from someone much smarter than I am. Unfortunately, I can't remember exactly where I read it, or something a lot like it...

[Aces]

If you think about it most comic books after 1985 are worthless as well.I see both baseball cards and comic books as both great hobbies, and hobbies that can learn good knowledge from one another.

 

Baseball Cards have no function other than as a collectible. None.

Comics tell a story through words and art. Regardless of how anyone feels about the quality of storytelling from 1985 on (and really, there's just as large amount of questionable art and storytelling pre-1985 as post), the majority of tpb's sold each month is easily from the modern era of comics, so obviously there's interest.

Now from a monetary value standpoint, the modern era of comics seem less valuable, but even that can be deceiving. Keep in mind that by 1985, the secret was out, and the majority of comics were bagged and boarded and protected; increasing the amount of high quality copies available.

Which has more to do with the lower selling prices than any perception of worthlessness.

 

Sure, Comics and Cards can learn something from each other, but there is a difference there that is apples to oranges.

Its funny how people have to put raise their hobby up by putting others down.

Remember, comic collectors are people who collect magazines about people in tights with some type of superpower flying around.

Baseball cards are at least of real people.

Of course by the 1980s and 1990s those real people were "chemically enhanced".

 

*Waves his hand*

"These aren't the roids your looking for"

[whomerjay]

Sorry if this has been said before. I watched the OP's video and my thoughts on this are that comic characters are more eternal.

 

There is only 1 spider-man, and he has been in comics for the last 50 years. The average athlete's career isn't more than 10 years.

 

Sports is a business of "what have you done for me lately." Players are VERY easily forgotten. Unless you have vintage rookies of legends expect the market to fall through very soon.

 

I was collecting a lot of Broncos and Spurs players autographed card and recently sold my entire collection on the bay because once those players retire or get traded the market for them will be gone.

 

I think the vintage comic market is much stronger, and the sports fad is much more comparable to the modern comic/ variant market.

Babe Ruth is eternal. Mickey Mantle is eternal, Sandy Koufax is eternal, Roberto Clemente is eternal. There are just as many immortals in baseball, probably more, as in comics.

I assure you, people have not forgotten about Whitey Ford, Bob Gibson, Honus Wagner, Eddie Collins, Christy Matthewson, etc.

Yes, cards do tend to take a hit after the shiny and new wear off. But what collectible in todays market doesnt?

The maxim is the same: Collect what you love, love what you collect, and if there is any money left in them then that is a bonus.

But how many baseball cards have sold over $10k vs comic books...lets say after 1950

I dunno. But I would say that there are cards that trade in that range.

But, sorry to be obtuse, the point of your post is?

My point is I agree with the OP that Collectors are striking out with baseball cards. They, compared to comic books.....S....U....C...K. Thats my point

Ah, the always popular "what i collect is awesome and what you collect su cks" argument. Always trotted out by the small minded and those who take someone else collecting something else as a personal affront.

Cards are not striking out. There are shows all over, about 4 this month just in my state of NC, shops that are still open (my local card shop does a booming business and you should see the nights they have pack wars and trade night, and they are geared to kids as well) and a thriving community on eBay. Oh, and there are about 5 major message boards as well that are always active.

But, lets not let facts stand in the way of a good argument doucher.

 

So what goes on in NC is indicative of the overall hobby? Can you say that the hobby is as strong across the country?

 

There are other facts in play here. Those facts are that in general the collectible sports card market is a shadow of what it was 20 years ago. Cards were massively overproduced, values plummeted. Here in CT, I watched at least 5 local stores go out of business when sports cards collapsed in the 90s. In the late 80s/early 90's I used to be able to go to to at least one to two card shows every month. That just isn't the case here anymore and I do not believe your example in NC is the norm. The hobby is depressed right now. I wish it weren't

So what goes on in your neck of the wood is indicitive of the hobby? You dont get to play it both ways.

So, my anecdotal evidence is not acceptable but yours is. Nice.

There are shows all over the US, large an small, on a very regular basis. There is the National, in Baltimore this year, that is every bit as large as SD, NY, Chicago-Con. The hobby isnt depressed as bad as you think it is.

 

Allow me to join the discussion.

 

Arex, your sweeping statement that "the hobby isn't depressed as bad as you think it is" implies that you are talking about the hobby in general. Seeing as baseball was known as the "great American pastime", if anyone said that, I'd assume they were talking about the entire nation and the state of the hobby across it.

 

Jeffro even qualified it by asking if you were speaking for the state of the hobby across the entire country.

 

He simply offered a rebuttal that it was not so where he is from.

 

I see Jeffro's qualified argument as valid in the sense that he rebutted your point directly and you dismissed it outright.

 

 

 

It seems Arex was talking about the hobby in general. And to support his argument he states that there are many shows throughout the nation plus a strong national show. This after Jeffro questions his reasoning because it is anecdotal, and then offers anecdotes to support his argument.

 

So you can say he was dismissive but he did not dismiss "outright."

 

 

 

 

[HOTFLIPS]

There are some comparisons that come out of that, but for the most part it's still apples to oranges. I do see that happening over the longer term, but comics aren't nearly as abundant as cards and have more appeal than just nostalgia.

 

+1

 

The news piece was dead-on about the baseball card hobby. I was a huge collector back in the 70s and 80s, and then got back in during the early 2000s. I soon recognized that the hobby was not the same, for many of the same reasons identified in this broadcast.

 

I then got back into comics in 2003 and I'm still here. It really is apples and oranges, though there are some relevant comparisons.

I challenge all of you to pick up the book referred to in that news clip, Mint Condition, How Baseball Cards Became an American Obsession, by Dave Jamieson (2010).

 

Read that book and you'll formulate a completely different opinion. The historical events that have transpired between the two hobbies is strikingly in parallel...

 

Sounds like an interesting read, I will do so.

 

As will I.

You guys are gonna enjoy the book. It's a quick, engaging and informative read.

 

BTW...

 

As you're reading the book, I’ll bet dollars to doughnuts you'll end up thinking to yourself "Damn, replace the term 'baseball card' with 'comic book' and this book could be talking about the comic book hobby."

 

Here's a book teaser:

Mint Condition is filed to the brim with colorful characters, from a destitute hermit whose legendary–and priceless–collection resides at the Metropolitan Museum of Art, to Topp's mad genius designer who created the company's most famous card sets, and from the professional "graders" who rate cards and the "doctors" who secretly alter them to a larger-than-life memorabilia specialist whose auction house is under investigation by the FBI. A rollicking, century-spanning, and extremely entertaining history, Mint Condition is a must-read for anyone who has ever collected, flipped, or traded a card.

 

http://www.davejamieson.com/mintcondition.html

 

There was a special on the MLB Network a few months back called, "Cardboard Treasure" or something like that. Was very interesting to watch if you come across it.

[HOTFLIPS]

Sorry if this has been said before. I watched the OP's video and my thoughts on this are that comic characters are more eternal.

 

There is only 1 spider-man, and he has been in comics for the last 50 years. The average athlete's career isn't more than 10 years.

 

Sports is a business of "what have you done for me lately." Players are VERY easily forgotten. Unless you have vintage rookies of legends expect the market to fall through very soon.

 

I was collecting a lot of Broncos and Spurs players autographed card and recently sold my entire collection on the bay because once those players retire or get traded the market for them will be gone.

 

I think the vintage comic market is much stronger, and the sports fad is much more comparable to the modern comic/ variant market.

Babe Ruth is eternal. Mickey Mantle is eternal, Sandy Koufax is eternal, Roberto Clemente is eternal. There are just as many immortals in baseball, probably more, as in comics.

I assure you, people have not forgotten about Whitey Ford, Bob Gibson, Honus Wagner, Eddie Collins, Christy Matthewson, etc.

Yes, cards do tend to take a hit after the shiny and new wear off. But what collectible in todays market doesnt?

The maxim is the same: Collect what you love, love what you collect, and if there is any money left in them then that is a bonus.

But how many baseball cards have sold over $10k vs comic books...lets say after 1950

I dunno. But I would say that there are cards that trade in that range.

But, sorry to be obtuse, the point of your post is?

My point is I agree with the OP that Collectors are striking out with baseball cards. They, compared to comic books.....S....U....C...K. Thats my point

Ah, the always popular "what i collect is awesome and what you collect su cks" argument. Always trotted out by the small minded and those who take someone else collecting something else as a personal affront.

Cards are not striking out. There are shows all over, about 4 this month just in my state of NC, shops that are still open (my local card shop does a booming business and you should see the nights they have pack wars and trade night, and they are geared to kids as well) and a thriving community on eBay. Oh, and there are about 5 major message boards as well that are always active.

But, lets not let facts stand in the way of a good argument doucher.

 

So what goes on in NC is indicative of the overall hobby? Can you say that the hobby is as strong across the country?

 

There are other facts in play here. Those facts are that in general the collectible sports card market is a shadow of what it was 20 years ago. Cards were massively overproduced, values plummeted. Here in CT, I watched at least 5 local stores go out of business when sports cards collapsed in the 90s. In the late 80s/early 90's I used to be able to go to to at least one to two card shows every month. That just isn't the case here anymore and I do not believe your example in NC is the norm. The hobby is depressed right now. I wish it weren't

So what goes on in your neck of the wood is indicitive of the hobby? You dont get to play it both ways.

So, my anecdotal evidence is not acceptable but yours is. Nice.

There are shows all over the US, large an small, on a very regular basis. There is the National, in Baltimore this year, that is every bit as large as SD, NY, Chicago-Con. The hobby isnt depressed as bad as you think it is.

 

Allow me to join the discussion.

 

Arex, your sweeping statement that "the hobby isn't depressed as bad as you think it is" implies that you are talking about the hobby in general. Seeing as baseball was known as the "great American pastime", if anyone said that, I'd assume they were talking about the entire nation and the state of the hobby across it.

 

Jeffro even qualified it by asking if you were speaking for the state of the hobby across the entire country.

 

He simply offered a rebuttal that it was not so where he is from.

 

I see Jeffro's qualified argument as valid in the sense that he rebutted your point directly and you dismissed it outright.

 

 

 

It seems Arex was talking about the hobby in general. And to support his argument he states that there are many shows throughout the nation plus a strong national show. This after Jeffro questions his reasoning because it is anecdotal, and then offers anecdotes to support his argument.

 

So you can say he was dismissive but he did not dismiss "outright."

 

 

 

 

Arex,

You know i got nothing but love for ya pal, but we did the National show a few years ago in Chicago and the number of people that attended was not nearly the amount from the past. I do a lot of comic conventions accross the country and can usually guage the attendence. The National show had 8000-9000 people tops accross the 5 or so days. That being said, most of them were spending money, albeit nickel and diming every dealer to get the best price, but you really cant blame them for that.

 

The difference between sportscard shows and comic shows is that there are comics that people want that only a few dealers might have, say an AF 15 in 5.0. In the big sportscard shows someone might be looking for a 52 Topps Mantle and there are literally 10-15 dealers that have them in the same grade. So bargain hunting is understandable. Even with what i deal in, supplies, there are 10 different supply dealers at the show. Of course, i have the best product at the best price with the best customer service so it doesnt affect me really

 

The only publicity the major sportscard shows get really is whatever MastroNet is being sued for this time,

 

Jeff

[HOTFLIPS]

Back in '99, I went to a card show in center city Philly and on my way out saw that a dealer had the only (at the time) PSA 10 Mike Schmidt Topps AND OPC rookies in his showcase. I bought the Topps for $4K, which was probably 80% of my net worth as a college sophomore.

 

It was my prized posession for about 2 weeks before I realized that I was 19 and needed beer money. I put him up on eBay with no reserve and pulled in approx $9K. Still one of my better short term flips.

 

I'm guessing that card is actually worth more now since it's damn tough to get in a 10. Anyone know if another has sold since?

 

The OPC version has gone for about $4000+/- over the last couple of years. The Topps version has been in higher demand, but I haven't seen any PSA 10s in years.

 

When i was 8 years old i used to bring my bag of baseball cards to a flee-market that my parents set up at. I used to sell them for 5 cents a piece so i could buy the newer baseball cards. Guy bought a card, handed me a nickel and flaunted that it was a Mike Schmidt rookie at me and my parents saying he could get $75.00 for it. One of the worst feelings i had up to that point. My father "handled" it but he didnt get the card back. My father bought me a case of 1983 topps baseball because he felt bad for me. He also bought me the CCP, "Current Card Prices" price guide every month after that. I was hooked and vowed to never be taken like that again.

[Jeffro.]

It seems Arex was talking about the hobby in general. And to support his argument he states that there are many shows throughout the nation plus a strong national show. This after Jeffro questions his reasoning because it is anecdotal, and then offers anecdotes to support his argument.

 

So you can say he was dismissive but he did not dismiss "outright."

 

 

 

 

But the real question here is not only the state of the hobby currently, but also how far it has fallen from those days of 20-30 years ago. I'd be willing to bet that if you compared attendance figures of the "big" card shows from the late 80s/early 90s, to 2012, you'd see a huge dropoff in numbers.

 

If someone can refute that, then I'll tip my hat to them and withdraw my comments. Until then, I'm not going to allow Arex to bully me into not stating my opinion.

[NewWorldOrder]

This was the last sports card I held onto before I sold it on eBay in college back in 2000. Griffey is my favorite player of all time.

 

If he didn't get hurt so much he would have destroyed Hank Aarons HR record. (Bonds doesn't count IMO)

 

I might re-buy it one day just for nostalgia.

 

The issue of value with sports cards is once they retire the demand really does go down, plus if they don't perform value also decreases of course.

 

 

Just curious I know there are many different sports card grading services out there in the marketplace unlike in comics so a question for some of you guys that still collect sports card is.....

 

What company(s) grading standards seem to have the most validity in the sports cards marketplace. Meaning if you wanted your Micky Mantle rookie card graded who would you send it to? Who wouldn't you send it to? Cause we all know a CGC graded book is more trusted & sells for more than a PGX etc.

[bill977]

Back in '99, I went to a card show in center city Philly and on my way out saw that a dealer had the only (at the time) PSA 10 Mike Schmidt Topps AND OPC rookies in his showcase. I bought the Topps for $4K, which was probably 80% of my net worth as a college sophomore.

 

It was my prized posession for about 2 weeks before I realized that I was 19 and needed beer money. I put him up on eBay with no reserve and pulled in approx $9K. Still one of my better short term flips.

 

I'm guessing that card is actually worth more now since it's damn tough to get in a 10. Anyone know if another has sold since?

 

The OPC version has gone for about $4000+/- over the last couple of years. The Topps version has been in higher demand, but I haven't seen any PSA 10s in years.

 

When i was 8 years old i used to bring my bag of baseball cards to a flee-market that my parents set up at. I used to sell them for 5 cents a piece so i could buy the newer baseball cards. Guy bought a card, handed me a nickel and flaunted that it was a Mike Schmidt rookie at me and my parents saying he could get $75.00 for it. One of the worst feelings i had up to that point. My father "handled" it but he didnt get the card back. My father bought me a case of 1983 topps baseball because he felt bad for me. He also bought me the CCP, "Current Card Prices" price guide every month after that. I was hooked and vowed to never be taken like that again.

having read this,my initial reaction was anger over ripping off a small child. but you sir,have a great selling reputation,and i will bet you recall that incident and run your business in a moral and ethical manner. for this,i salute you

[HOTFLIPS]

Back in '99, I went to a card show in center city Philly and on my way out saw that a dealer had the only (at the time) PSA 10 Mike Schmidt Topps AND OPC rookies in his showcase. I bought the Topps for $4K, which was probably 80% of my net worth as a college sophomore.

 

It was my prized posession for about 2 weeks before I realized that I was 19 and needed beer money. I put him up on eBay with no reserve and pulled in approx $9K. Still one of my better short term flips.

 

I'm guessing that card is actually worth more now since it's damn tough to get in a 10. Anyone know if another has sold since?

 

The OPC version has gone for about $4000+/- over the last couple of years. The Topps version has been in higher demand, but I haven't seen any PSA 10s in years.

 

When i was 8 years old i used to bring my bag of baseball cards to a flee-market that my parents set up at. I used to sell them for 5 cents a piece so i could buy the newer baseball cards. Guy bought a card, handed me a nickel and flaunted that it was a Mike Schmidt rookie at me and my parents saying he could get $75.00 for it. One of the worst feelings i had up to that point. My father "handled" it but he didnt get the card back. My father bought me a case of 1983 topps baseball because he felt bad for me. He also bought me the CCP, "Current Card Prices" price guide every month after that. I was hooked and vowed to never be taken like that again.

having read this,my initial reaction was anger over ripping off a small child. but you sir,have a great selling reputation,and i will bet you recall that incident and run your business in a moral and ethical manner. for this,i salute you

 

Exactly. I learned and moved on. I had plenty of opportunities to to "score" of unsuspecting people. I usually give advice to the parents. I tell them what the card or comic is worth, and what i would be willing to pay for it. If i dont get it, im cool with it. I tell them to do all the work for the extra money they would make.

[whomerjay]

Until then, I'm not going to allow Arex to bully me into not stating my opinion.

 

[HOTFLIPS]

This was the last sports card I held onto before I sold it on eBay in college back in 2000. Griffey is my favorite player of all time.

 

If he didn't get hurt so much he would have destroyed Hank Aarons HR record. (Bonds doesn't count IMO)

 

I might re-buy it one day just for nostalgia.

 

The issue of value with sports cards is once they retire the demand really does go down, plus if they don't perform value also decreases of course.

 

 

Just curious I know there are many different sports card grading services out there in the marketplace unlike in comics so a question for some of you guys that still collect sports card is.....

 

What company(s) grading standards seem to have the most validity in the sports cards marketplace. Meaning if you wanted your Micky Mantle rookie card graded who would you send it to? Who wouldn't you send it to? Cause we all know a CGC graded book is more trusted & sells for more than a PGX etc.

 

John, how many you want?? I got about 30 factory sets in my closet. With your bankroll you should over pay me for it.

[Jeffro.]

Until then, I'm not going to allow Arex to bully me into not stating my opinion.

 

 

 

[HOTFLIPS]

By the Way, i would go with Beckett for grading. They are the toughest on grades. PSA has come back from years of sheistiness from what i understand. Do not use Global. As far as authenticating signatures, use JSA Jimmy Spence authentication.

[bill977]

thats how one earns repeat business and a comfort zone for the customer,because they are secure in the fact thay wont be ripped off. of course it can be a pain to educate the paying or selling customer at times,i believe it pays off for the person interested in a long term business with a great reputation

[bill977]

By the Way, i would go with Beckett for grading. They are the toughest on grades. PSA has come back from years of sheistiness from what i understand. Do not use Global. As far as authenticating signatures, use JSA Jimmy Spence authentication.

i maybe wrong here but was psa complicit in the honus wagner card having possibly being trimmed? or did the author of the honus card book(the name of the book escapes me at the moment) just hint that maybe that was the case?

[Gatchaman]

a question for arexcrooke; do you think the prohibitive cost of a box of cards,with no chance of getting a set or even half of a set has driven the kids away?for example my grandson loves the topps heritage cards,but with a box being 75 dollars plus, and no chance of completing it for under 200.00 that puts him out of the game. whereas he claims for about 40.00 total,he has a shot at completing a magic set,or whatever the new cards along that line are. now back in the 70's my allowance and paper route i could afford to buy a box of 1975 topps for about 3.60 and could buy 3 or 4 boxes over the summer and complete a set. i did that with topps,donruss and fleer,right up until the early 90's. and i think the heritage cards are nice,but what would it cost to build a set of these,using the old way?

 

Man. I wish I could get a set of Magic for $40. A recent complete set runs $200-$300. A rare comes in every pack that is valued from $1.00-$80.00. My daughter bought a pack at Walmart the other day and pulled two rares out of the pack. One valued at $10 and the other at $40. The odds of pulling valued cards are greatly higher in Magic cards than sports cards. A lot of kids are purchasing magic cards and more and more each year.