Upcoming Heritage Auction

[cheetah]

Perhaps CGC could certify a book with a grade and "possible grade" noting if the book had pressable defects that could improve the grade ... ?

 

This would level the playing field.

 

That would be the equalizer

but I bet it wouldn`t happen for years because of the money that can be profited in just a .5 bump.

When they press AF #15 3.0 to 3.5 and can make a big profit,then the odds of what you suggest are slim and none unfortunately.

 

It really works best with HG SA superhero books getting pressed into uber-high grade low census copies. At a point, the house of cards crumbles like it has with ASM 129, IH 181, GS X-men 1, Conan 1, etc. The number of GA books getting the big-money bump seems to be less and the buyers are far more aware of a lot of books' history.

[MrBedrock]

Being the proud owner of four Billy books won in the Heritage Auction my impression is that no manipulation took place before they were slabbed for the earlier auction whether by choice of the consignor, timing, added cost or whatever.

 

I think that assumption may be wrong.

[lou_fine]

Being the proud owner of four Billy books won in the Heritage Auction my impression is that no manipulation took place before they were slabbed for the earlier auction whether by choice of the consignor, timing, added cost or whatever.

 

That isn't the case this time around, and it's a real shame too.

 

FTR, I have no problem with pressing on a case to case basis (in fact, I wish cover cleaning wasn't considered restoration), but some of the Billy Wright pedigree books were clearly fragile in the first place in spite of good interior page quality. Sadly, pressing has done this collection no favors.

 

For instance, look at before & after scans of the Detective #18 (7.5, White pages; sorry, I don't have easy access to them for comparison at the moment).

 

Anyway, this was a book that I bid on and lost. Now re-listed, it didn't get a bump from having obviously been pressed, but the spine split at the bottom has visibly gotten worse. Oddly, it received the same grade, but eye appeal is markedly worse and it is very doubtful that I'll bid on this copy again!

 

It almost seems criminal that this was done to such a beautiful book, but the collectors, excuse me, speculators, who own these books apparently aren't concerned with the potential damage done since their sole motivation is profit.

 

Another aspect, which is just as important to me, is that Mr. Merryweather ended up competing against a short term speculator who inflated the price of the book. If the seller ends up with a handsome profit in the May auction, other speculators will take notice and try the same. This kind of bubble-creating practice is not in Heritage's long term interest either and I suspect that they too have mixed feelings about it, although they obviously can't say so publicly.

 

Not sure why you would say that Heritage would have mixed feelings about this practice?

 

I believe all parties associated with this practice from the consignor to the restorer, to CGC and finally to Heritage stands to make money from this kind of activity. This is the exact reason why they have always been in full 150% support of this undisclosed activity. It's just that it is now more clearly evident in even the GA market as opposed to the SA and BA markets where this practice was so prevalent.

 

The book doesn't really matter as it's all about the money to be made. Just take a look back at the ads that these companies have taken out in the industry from the get go. It's always about the money and maximizing the amount which you can get in your pocket. So what if s few books gets damaged along the process, it's the big picture that counts as the ones that are potentialized will more than make up for the ones that are damaged along the way. It's simply the cost of doing business.

 

Unfortunately, with most of the CGC generation, it's really more about the cold hard world of fast money as opposed to the warm fuzzy dream world of silly comic books.

[G.A.tor]

Being the proud owner of four Billy books won in the Heritage Auction my impression is that no manipulation took place before they were slabbed for the earlier auction whether by choice of the consignor, timing, added cost or whatever.

 

I think that assumption may be wrong.

I have no problem with pressing, it is obviously here to stay...I like to know if a book has been pressed, but honestly, even that doesn't change anything...

 

but, I do bid on all big books in big auctions under the assumption they have been pressed...5 years ago, no...but today, it is almost becoming an accepted practice... so, I don't think it is wise to "assume" any book is "virgin" any longer

[Cat-Man_America]

Being the proud owner of four Billy books won in the Heritage Auction my impression is that no manipulation took place before they were slabbed for the earlier auction whether by choice of the consignor, timing, added cost or whatever.

 

I think that assumption may be wrong.

I have no problem with pressing, it is obviously here to stay...I like to know if a book has been pressed, but honestly, even that doesn't change anything...

 

but, I do bid on all big books in big auctions under the assumption they have been pressed...5 years ago, no...but today, it is almost becoming an accepted practice... so, I don't think it is wise to "assume" any book is "virgin" any longer

 

 

Good points. It's probably unwise to ever assume virginity whether informed of such or not; I've certainly been fooled before!

 

Hasn't everybody?

[heliosten]

Thanks for the clarification, Steve (thumbs u

 

+1

[Agent 007]

Perhaps CGC could certify a book with a grade and "possible grade" noting if the book had pressable defects that could improve the grade ... ?

 

This would level the playing field.

 

That would be the equalizer

but I bet it wouldn`t happen for years because of the money that can be profited in just a .5 bump.

When they press AF #15 3.0 to 3.5 and can make a big profit,then the odds of what you suggest are slim and none unfortunately.

 

It really works best with HG SA superhero books getting pressed into uber-high grade low census copies. At a point, the house of cards crumbles like it has with ASM 129, IH 181, GS X-men 1, Conan 1, etc. The number of GA books getting the big-money bump seems to be less and the buyers are far more aware of a lot of books' history.

 

+1

[ComicConnoisseur]

Being the proud owner of four Billy books won in the Heritage Auction my impression is that no manipulation took place before they were slabbed for the earlier auction whether by choice of the consignor, timing, added cost or whatever.

 

I think that assumption may be wrong.

I have no problem with pressing, it is obviously here to stay...I like to know if a book has been pressed, but honestly, even that doesn't change anything...

 

but, I do bid on all big books in big auctions under the assumption they have been pressed...5 years ago, no...but today, it is almost becoming an accepted practice... so, I don't think it is wise to "assume" any book is "virgin" any longer

 

 

Good points. It's probably unwise to ever assume virginity whether informed of such or not; I've certainly been fooled before!

 

Hasn't everybody?

 

[stagedoorjohnny]

Being the proud owner of four Billy books won in the Heritage Auction my impression is that no manipulation took place before they were slabbed for the earlier auction whether by choice of the consignor, timing, added cost or whatever.

 

I think that assumption may be wrong.

 

 

So some of these upcoming books may have been pressed twice? How delicious.

[batman_fan]

Being the proud owner of four Billy books won in the Heritage Auction my impression is that no manipulation took place before they were slabbed for the earlier auction whether by choice of the consignor, timing, added cost or whatever.

 

I think that assumption may be wrong.

I have no problem with pressing, it is obviously here to stay...I like to know if a book has been pressed, but honestly, even that doesn't change anything...

 

but, I do bid on all big books in big auctions under the assumption they have been pressed...5 years ago, no...but today, it is almost becoming an accepted practice... so, I don't think it is wise to "assume" any book is "virgin" any longer

 

I would go further and say "pressed multiple times".

[tth2]

Most of the Billy Wright re-listed books have been re-subbed, so I don't think they are due to people not paying, but rather to flippers trying to make a profit.

 

There are 27 Billy Wright books in the May auction.

 

These 4 are brand new, never auctioned before:

-Action 35

-Action 38

-Adventure 51

-All-Star 6

 

Of the remaining 23, 3 of them have the same serial number as when first sold. They could be straight flips, or maybe the buyers did back out.

-Action 34

-Batman 6

-More Fun 38

 

The remaining 20 books all have new serial numbers, so they have been re-subbed and possibly pressed.

 

Of those 20, 16 came back with the exact same grade and page quality.

-Action 19

-Action 30

-Action 36

-Adventure 40

-Adventure 61

-All-American 19

-Batman 5

-Detective 17

-Detective 18

-Detective 30

-Detective 34

-Detective 41

-Marvel Mystery 12

-More Fun 55

-More Fun 61

-Planet 1

 

The remaining 4 books did receive a grade bump.

-Detective 28 (8.0 to 8.5)

-Detective 29 (7.0 to 7.5)

-Detective 40 (9.0 to 9.2)

-More Fun 33 (6.5 to 7.0)

 

None of the books received a grade decrease.

None of the books received a page quality increase or decrease.

Wow! Thanks for the doing the analysis!

[clarkkentdds]

Best case scenario: This pressing and resubing game will result in a stagnation of values.

 

Worst case scenario: It will cause prices to decline across the board.

 

I am already witnessing this as a buyer and seller.

 

Unfortunately I am having to play the game just to maintain values!

 

This game can't be good long term.

[tth2]

Wonder if they were straight resubs or if they were worked on first?

Does it matter? The universal consensus is now that pressing doesn't matter, so potential buyers don't care whether a book achieved a certain grade through miraculous preservation for 70 years or through a few minutes with Matt & Co.

[tth2]

A number of Billy Wright books were bought and paid for by a private collector hoping to get them upgraded. As you can see he was successful on some, on most he wasn’t, and they’re being re-consigned by him to this upcoming Signature auction.

 

Part of the allure of the BW books was their untouched, OO aspect. Now that at least some of the books have passed into the realm of manipulation, I do hope that the "private collector" takes a bath.

 

Does he really think that other collectors with the wherewithal to be interested in these books aren't aware of the crack-and-resub game, and the generally unfavorable sales history of such books being auctioned immediately after they had just been sold?

 

What a dipstick - greed knows no bounds, does it.

Come on Steve, your post is so 2008. The war is over, the pro-pressers won. The market and these boards have spoken and what they're saying is that collectors don't care if their books were pressed to achieve their grade.

[tth2]

Another aspect, which is just as important to me, is that Mr. Merryweather ended up competing against a short term speculator who inflated the price of the book. If the seller ends up with a handsome profit in the May auction, other speculators will take notice and try the same.

tb, that horse left the barn a lo-o-o-ng time ago.

 

 

[tth2]

The same thing happened to me on my Young Allies #1 CGC 9,2 Kansas City Copy. It was the Highest Graded Copy until the San Francisco Copy got pressed from a 9.0 to a 9.6. What can ya do?

 

Since then, a lot of my Highest Graded Copies are now 2nd & 3rd from other copies pressing up.

Kind of hard for you to complain about that, West, since you were involved in the implementation of the CGC policy that has fostered these practices.

[adamstrange]

The same thing happened to me on my Young Allies #1 CGC 9,2 Kansas City Copy. It was the Highest Graded Copy until the San Francisco Copy got pressed from a 9.0 to a 9.6. What can ya do?

 

Since then, a lot of my Highest Graded Copies are now 2nd & 3rd from other copies pressing up.

Kind of hard for you to complain about that, West, since you were involved in the implementation of the CGC policy that has fostered these practices.

1) I don't think he complained -- just stated the facts

2) The policies were in place several years before he joined Heritage

[tth2]

The same thing happened to me on my Young Allies #1 CGC 9,2 Kansas City Copy. It was the Highest Graded Copy until the San Francisco Copy got pressed from a 9.0 to a 9.6. What can ya do?

 

Since then, a lot of my Highest Graded Copies are now 2nd & 3rd from other copies pressing up.

Kind of hard for you to complain about that, West, since you were involved in the implementation of the CGC policy that has fostered these practices.

1) I don't think he complained -- just stated the facts

2) The policies were in place several years before he joined Heritage

He didn't complain in so many words, but reading between the lines...

 

I didn't say that he created the policies, just that he was involved in implementing them. Perhaps I should have said that he was involved in their continued implementation.

[matter-migration]

So there are that many deadbeat nonpaying bidders out there...?

 

And they all like bidding against me apparently...

 

I find it extremely frustrating to find many books getting re-listed in consecutive auctions. I had to go to the mat for the books I wanted. I wanted them. I did my homework. I abide by the rules and regulations of bidding. And I paid.

 

Now how many of these inflated prices were pushed up by those who didn't do their homework? If you drove up the prices legitimate collectors had to pay without the intention of making good on your bid, please stand up. I am sure my taxes are already supporting your habit of not paying your other bills..

 

How do we know these deadbeats aren't "pseudo friends" of the Heritage family? (employees)?

 

Something smells fishy.

 

Are you alluding to shill bidding?

 

It's well documented that Heritage is allowed to legally shill bid their own auctions (since they are in Texas). It's in their user agreement. The inhouse bidding ID is " NP Gresham".

 

But I've never heard of any of them backing out of an auction they won.

[ecfanman]

Just listed on Heritage for May auction:

 

Action Comics #2 CGC 5.0 Billy Wright Pedigree!