X-O Manowar discussion, arriving May 2

[Prince Namor]

The point I'm making is, if you want to make a title successful, don't overkill it with a high print run.

 

I seriously doubt that X-O will go to a second print.

 

Look at Chew, it was an instant hit, all the way to a Third Print run.

 

If you print 4 million copies of a single issue, there is no demand when you have plenty of supply

 

Good point. Because in this market, one of the other things that must be taken into consideration is perception.

Let's say X-O over prints and there are plenty of copies left on the shelf.

Does this change some of the buyers 'perceptions' that it isn't a 'hot' book and so they don't bother to pick up the second issue?

Wouldn't this hurt Valiant in the long run?

[Prince Namor]

was it only 40k total? I thought it was 40k orders. I think I interpreted it the wrong way

 

well 40k orders, i'm not seeing alot if any overprinting going on in comics

 

They can only gauge it by what the shop orders. They have no way of knowing what pull box orders were.

Keep in mind, there are people who personally are ordering major multiples of this and all of the early issues. There are stores that will spike their orders on this.

There will be no shortage of this book.

[500Club]

The point I'm making is, if you want to make a title successful, don't overkill it with a high print run.

 

I seriously doubt that X-O will go to a second print.

 

Look at Chew, it was an instant hit, all the way to a Third Print run.

 

If you print 4 million copies of a single issue, there is no demand when you have plenty of supply

 

Good point. Because in this market, one of the other things that must be taken into consideration is perception.

Let's say X-O over prints and there are plenty of copies left on the shelf.

Does this change some of the buyers 'perceptions' that it isn't a 'hot' book and so they don't bother to pick up the second issue?

Wouldn't this hurt Valiant in the long run?

 

Maybe.

 

Or maybe they are confident that the product will sell based on its merit, and not the perceptions of secondary market buyers and speculators.

[valiantman]

The 1:20 variants are now selling for $20 and the 1:50 variants are selling for OVER $50.

 

If the cost to the retailer was $2 per book, and a retailer ordered a multiple of 60 books,

then selling the three 1:20 variants for $20 each and the 1:50 for $60 makes EVERY other copy free.

 

Let me say that again... FREE.

 

That's a no lose situation.

The retailers are pure profit on the regular and pullbox sales.

Valiant sells as many books as the retailers want to order.

Readers who want the book on day one can find a copy for $3.99 (or less).

Readers who might want a copy later will be able to find a copy in the back issues.

Readers who might not have tried the book at all may be able to find one for $1 in a bargain bin in a few months.

 

Who doesn't win in that scenario?

The buyer who speculates on regular X-O #1 at $3.99 each? That's too bad.

(Do we really want that person in the hobby? Not reading at all? Just thinking they can turn paper into gold?)

 

If the buyer who pays $3.99 in the first month is upset when the price drops,

they can just wait a while and save money on the next issue when it's discounted.

 

If the publisher, retailer, and first day buyer are all happy with the book,

and someone who might not have ever read the book gets an extra copy

for next-to-nothing in a few months and becomes a fan,

it doesn't get any better than that.

[Nico Esq]

was it only 40k total? I thought it was 40k orders. I think I interpreted it the wrong way

 

well 40k orders, i'm not seeing alot if any overprinting going on in comics

 

I think what happened is that 20K orders were made and the pullbox variant cover doubled the number of copies to 40K. Would someone clarify if this is true or not? Thanks!

[valiantman]

was it only 40k total? I thought it was 40k orders. I think I interpreted it the wrong way

 

well 40k orders, i'm not seeing alot if any overprinting going on in comics

 

I think what happened is that 20K orders were made and the pullbox variant cover doubled the number of copies to 40K. Would someone clarify if this is true or not? Thanks!

Retailers were allowed to order as many regular and pullbox covers as they wanted.

The pullbox program was intended to reward collectors who use a pullbox at their local LCS,

but the LCS and the online retailers can sell the books to anyone they choose.

The cost was the same to retailers and so they ordered the total they wanted in any ratio on those two covers.

40K is the total number of regular plus pullbox, with the 1:20 and 1:50 variants being another 5% or so.

 

My guess is that the regular to pullbox ratio will end up being something like 3:2,

so using the 42,000 number, that would be:

Around 24,000 regular

Around 16,000 pullbox

Around 1,800 (or so) 1:20 variants (since many stores won't order 20 to qualify)

Around 600 (or so) 1:50 variants (same reason)

...that would be 42,400.

[aggr1103]

Orders will level out soon enough. Not every book is going to be the next sleeping giant like TWD or Chew.

 

I think seeing so many copies still sitting on store shelves says more about the store and the store owner/manager who made that large an order than the publisher. The LCS/gaming/video game store I have my pull list at now is one of a chain of three, and I was the only person on any pull list at any of the 3 stores to ask for X-O, so my copy was the only one ordered (at least that's what I'm told). No copies even made it to the shelf.

 

The guy working the counter at my LCS is only 18, so he wasn't even born when Valiant began publishing. He wasn't familiar with it. I have a feeling that might be the reason why some stores are still seeing so many on the shelf.

 

Again, I enjoy the book. If they only print 9,000 issues a month of the next issues I'm fine with that.

[Nico Esq]

was it only 40k total? I thought it was 40k orders. I think I interpreted it the wrong way

 

well 40k orders, i'm not seeing alot if any overprinting going on in comics

 

I think what happened is that 20K orders were made and the pullbox variant cover doubled the number of copies to 40K. Would someone clarify if this is true or not? Thanks!

Retailers were allowed to order as many regular and pullbox covers as they wanted.

The pullbox program was intended to reward collectors who use a pullbox at their local LCS,

but the LCS and the online retailers can sell the books to anyone they choose.

The cost was the same to retailers and so they ordered the total they wanted in any ratio on those two covers.

40K is the total number of regular plus pullbox, with the 1:20 and 1:50 variants being another 5% or so.

 

That is really interesting. I hope that doesn't hurt long term sales or create false perceptions about the comic's sales at retail shops. Valiant has done all kinds of unique things to promote sales of this book. Valiant's officially got me scratchin' my head.

[Pirate]

I never read valiant the first time around for some reason. I really liked xo #1 (huge cary nord fan) and will be picking up the other titles to try.

[A-DONIS]

Don't get me wrong, I like the art too.

[Mike's Rack]

I see this book being a slow burn. I'm thinking that once the other titles are released and the universe starts picking up steam, people will star to look back and think they should have picked up x-o 1. The Valiant relaunch is a campaign not a single hill. Unlike smaller image books they have a plan and a bankroll to get this off the ground. It's better business to have a solid print run rather than sell out. The low print sell out reprint pattern that image uses is not the best format to market a campaign like this in the long run. I think some people expected Sell outs and eBay run up and when that did not happen they were disappointed. I think if we give it some time it will come together and then x-o 1 will pick up in demand when it is supported by a great story and a coherent universe, just like a solid book should. The lack of run up and speculation is actually a good thing for valiant in he long term, too bad they did not see that in 1992.

[FormerReader]

I see this book being a slow burn. I'm thinking that once the other titles are released and the universe starts picking up steam, people will star to look back and think they should have picked up x-o 1. The Valiant relaunch is a campaign not a single hill. Unlike smaller image books they have a plan and a bankroll to get this off the ground. It's better business to have a solid print run rather than sell out. The low print sell out reprint pattern that image uses is not the best format to market a campaign like this in the long run. I think some people expected Sell outs and eBay run up and when that did not happen they were disappointed. I think if we give it some time it will come together and then x-o 1 will pick up in demand when it is supported by a great story and a coherent universe, just like a solid book should. The lack of run up and speculation is actually a good thing for valiant in he long term, too bad they did not see that in 1992.

 

(thumbs u

[rjrjr]

The point I'm making is, if you want to make a title successful, don't overkill it with a high print run.

 

I seriously doubt that X-O will go to a second print.

 

Look at Chew, it was an instant hit, all the way to a Third Print run.

 

If you print 4 million copies of a single issue, there is no demand when you have plenty of supply

 

Good point. Because in this market, one of the other things that must be taken into consideration is perception.

Let's say X-O over prints and there are plenty of copies left on the shelf.

Does this change some of the buyers 'perceptions' that it isn't a 'hot' book and so they don't bother to pick up the second issue?

Wouldn't this hurt Valiant in the long run?

 

 

It depends on if Valiant is aiming to bring in readers or speculators. Many of the Image books are living off of speculation. You and I may disagree on this, but it does appear that many people are buying Image first issues looking for the "hot" book that will fetch money. I believe Valiant is looking for long term readers.

 

It's not like Valiant printed 100,000 copies of a book that 40,000 copies were ordered. They printed to order (with maybe a little overage like many publishers do), just like Image. Valiant aggressively marketed the books however and that paid off for them. Personally, I think that is great.

 

As to perception, someone else said this better. The perception of any comic that has a variant is the normal issue is nothing special. So, the existence of the 1:50 and 1:20 copies of the X-O Manowar already diminished the "hotness" of the X-O Manowar regular and pull box issues. Printing 40,000 copies of these normal issues isn't going to decrease the feeling someone has that the issue isn't something special. The special issues are the 1:50 and 1:20 variants.

[Ken Aldred]

I see this book being a slow burn. I'm thinking that once the other titles are released and the universe starts picking up steam, people will star to look back and think they should have picked up x-o 1.

That does sound a lot like Valiant in 91 and 92. The early days.

[BadDeacon]

It depends on if Valiant is aiming to bring in readers or speculators. Many of the Image books are living off of speculation. You and I may disagree on this, but it does appear that many people are buying Image first issues looking for the "hot" book that will fetch money. I believe Valiant is looking for long term readers.

Every sign indicates that Valiant is looking to bring in readers.

 

If you just want to bring in speculators, put out 10 variants, with tons of hot artists, and skimp on the interiors.

 

Valiant is bringing in top notch creative teams to make good stories. That's not what a company does if they are just trying to make a quick speculative buck.

 

I think that it's great that the print run is high, I think that the book unavailability is a greater barrier to entry than a perception that a book isn't selling well. Not having the book on the shelf when the customer wants it is an actual lost sale. Having a ton of copies on the shelf when the customer wants it isn't.

[synch]

are any of the people that worked on the original series of this working on the new series or have anything to do with it ? Also kind of wondering what started this relaunch , kind of funny to just have everything back up & running again imo... guess I need to wiki some valiant history

[valiantman]

are any of the people that worked on the original series of this working on the new series or have anything to do with it ? Also kind of wondering what started this relaunch , kind of funny to just have everything back up & running again imo... guess I need to wiki some valiant history

 

A little background...

 

The current ownership of Valiant purchased the copyrights and trademarks in 2005.

A lawsuit over a few trademark applications ended with the current owners winning all of the trademarks in 2008.

 

In 2010, it was revealed that Valiant had hired Jim Shooter to be Editor-In-Chief, but Shooter left Valiant unannounced

to go to Dark Horse and do Magnus, Dr. Solar, and Turok. Valiant sued Shooter, but dropped the suit.

 

In 2011, it was announced that the Valiant universe would return as monthly comics starting in mid-2012.

 

May 2, 2012, X-O Manowar #1 is the first monthly comic released building to four monthly titles by August 2012.

 

Many of the creative team for Valiant had been at Marvel in the last few years.

 

[ComicConnoisseur]

I see this book being a slow burn. I'm thinking that once the other titles are released and the universe starts picking up steam, people will star to look back and think they should have picked up x-o 1. The Valiant relaunch is a campaign not a single hill. Unlike smaller image books they have a plan and a bankroll to get this off the ground. It's better business to have a solid print run rather than sell out. The low print sell out reprint pattern that image uses is not the best format to market a campaign like this in the long run. I think some people expected Sell outs and eBay run up and when that did not happen they were disappointed. I think if we give it some time it will come together and then x-o 1 will pick up in demand when it is supported by a great story and a coherent universe, just like a solid book should. The lack of run up and speculation is actually a good thing for valiant in he long term, too bad they did not see that in 1992.

Once again you hit tthe nail on the head. good post!

[aggr1103]

In 2010, it was revealed that Valiant had hired Jim Shooter to be Editor-In-Chief, but Shooter left Valiant unannounced

to go to Dark Horse and do Magnus, Dr. Solar, and Turok. Valiant sued Shooter, but dropped the suit.

 

It will be interesting to see how these books do in comparison to the stuff Shooter put out at Dark Horse.

 

I think each book made it to what - 3,4 issues?

[valiantman]

It will be interesting to see how these books do in comparison to the stuff Shooter put out at Dark Horse.

 

I think each book made it to what - 3,4 issues?

4 issues for Magnus and Turok, 8 issues for Dr. Solar.