Interesting discussion about exclusive deals

[Transplant]

It's not that the discussion of it bothers me. It's that people are repeatedly blaming DWC for something they may not even be guilty of doing.

DWC has said that if someone wants a SS book from Stan Lee at a public event, it has to go through DWC's account or pay a fee to DWC. Those are their words, disregarding DWC's allusion to the facilitator "working it off."

 

There are three parties that know all the details of how these signings with Stan are set up.

 

1) DWC

 

2) CGC

 

3) Stan Lee's representatives

 

I fail to understand why Chandler & Sharon would disclose any more information about their business practices to what certainly seems to be a group of people that don't even utilize their services. It also doesn't make any sense that these same people have continued to argue that DWC has an exclusive deal with Stan Lee for signings. This has been proven to NOT be the case, particularly since NYcomics has announced the Masters 5 signing. We're talking about public signings.

If someone has a problem with the way something in the SS program is being handled the ONLY persons able to do anything about it would be Mr. Litch or Mr. Pierson who you yourself have stated have no intention of calling to even inquire as to why your posted question hasn't been addressed when it's entirely possible, and quite likely, that they haven't read your post. Continuing to post about it and not making the obvious slight effort to get the answers you're looking for is about as effective as beating your head against a brick wall.

 

No thanks. I'll take my answers in a public forum, thanks.

 

The SS program is one that requires an even higher level of trust than what it already built into the bargain between submitter and CGC. Therefore, I feel that they owe it to the consuming public to explain much, if not all, of the decisions and policies around the SS program. As it stands, if I want a Stan Lee SS book at a public signing, I have to go through DWC.

 

On the one hand, I have people telling me CGC has a no exclusives policy for public signing. On the other, I have people telling me you can't get Stan without paying DWC for the privilege of doing so.

 

If CGC wants to own that in public, let's hear it.

[BeachBum]

I'm pleased to announce an exclusive signing with Stan Lee next month, June 31st. More info to come.

 

Liar. There is no June 31st.

 

That only took 64 seconds

[Menace]

I do no know if these are public documents or if I will get in trouble posting things from it... but the Exhibit A CGC Signature Series Facilitators sheet states the following.

 

"CGC does not recognize CGC Signature Series Facilitator exclusivity with any creator. Only the creator can enforce exclusivity. CGC will not enforce contracts it is not involved in directly."

 

I have not seen anything about it being against the rules. Although it does seem to fly against this bit "A CGC Signature Series Facilitator may not restrict or impede another CGC Signature Series Facilitator from obtaining signatures." But reason dictates if the creator says "DWC is handling CGC stuff" then this is enough.

 

I would also like to point out a section which has been reminded of recently.

 

"

CGC SIGNATURE SERIES FACILITATOR CODE OF CONDUCT

A CGC Signature Series Facilitator is considered an independent contractor of CGC. All CGC Signature Series Facilitators are required to maintain the behavior set forth by the following CGC Signature Series Facilitator Code of Conduct.

 

CGC Signature Series Facilitators shall conduct themselves in a kind, courteous and professional manner when dealing with creators, CGC customers, members of the Collector Society Chat Boards, CGC employees, CGC CAW’s and other CGC Signature Series Facilitators. A CGC Signature Series Facilitator may not restrict or impede another CGC Signature Series Facilitator from obtaining signatures.

 

CGC Signature Series Facilitators are not authorized by CGC to police other CGC Signature Series Facilitators. If a CGC Signature Series Facilitator has concerns about another CGC Signature Series Facilitator, they must submit a formal written complaint and be prepared to provide evidence of their claim to CGC. Hunches and bad feelings about other CGC Signature Series Facilitators are not considered valid complaints by CGC.

 

CGC Signature Series Facilitators are not authorized by CGC to police eBay and other public auctions. Concerns about a Signature Series collectible should be submitted directly to CGC with its certification number. Beyond a reasonable query submitted directly to the seller, CGC Signature Series Facilitators are not to question or harass the seller of a CGC Signature Series collectible.

 

At times in the past, buyers or collectors of Signature Series collectibles have contacted CGC Signature Series Facilitators to voice complaints about other CGC Signature Series Facilitators activities and policies if the customer had a negative experience. Because CGC has the ability and authority to take remedial action, CGC Signature Series Facilitators should encourage the originator of the complaint to contact CGC directly. CGC Signature Series Facilitators can not involve themselves as a third party.

 

CGC does not recognize CGC Signature Series Facilitator exclusivity with any creator. Only the creator can enforce exclusivity. CGC will not enforce contracts it is not involved in directly.

 

Repeated disregard for the stated rules will lead to re-evaluation, suspension or termination of CGC Signature Series Facilitator status, as well as CGC Member Dealer and/or Collector’s Society privileges. Any conduct detrimental to the integrity or confidence in the CGC Signature Series Program will result in severing all ties with the CGC Signature Series Facilitator.

"

 

I am too new to make judgements on what DWC or anyone else does.

 

I hope posting this clears things up at least regarding what I understand CGC's stance on exclusives to be. They do not recognize them, but they do no forbid them. Meaning if you manage to get a singing with a 'exclusive' artist CGC will allow you to do it given you can meet a certain set of requirements that are set forth by the SS director.

 

If this is privileged information I just stuck my foot in it I guess but I have never been told, hinted to, nudge, poked or otherwise informed that this information is anything but public knowledge.

[Chespirito]

I'm pleased to announce an exclusive signing with Stan Lee next month, June 31st. More info to come.

 

Liar. There is no June 31st.

 

 

Not yet anyways....

 

[lscomics]

It also doesn't make any sense that these same people have continued to argue that DWC has an exclusive deal with Stan Lee for signings. This has been proven to NOT be the case, particularly since NYcomics has announced the Masters 5 signing.

 

 

As has been stated many times, NYComics has a private signing with Stan. The discussion has been involving getting Stan at public conventions where Stan is brought in by the promoters, and whether DWC is the exclusive facilitator through which those submissions can go. Obviously there are strong sentiments on all sides of the discussion, but let's make sure that operative discussion points stay apples to apples.

I don't want to speculate on what reasons there might be for that as it's not my place to do so. Those are details of business between the three parties I listed earlier and should really only be addressed by one of them. Bear in mind though none of those three parties are in any way obligated to discuss those details. Just because there are those who are curious about the details doesn't mean they're entitled to know them though.

[seanfingh]

It also doesn't make any sense that these same people have continued to argue that DWC has an exclusive deal with Stan Lee for signings. This has been proven to NOT be the case, particularly since NYcomics has announced the Masters 5 signing.

 

 

As has been stated many times, NYComics has a private signing with Stan. The discussion has been involving getting Stan at public conventions where Stan is brought in by the promoters, and whether DWC is the exclusive facilitator through which those submissions can go. Obviously there are strong sentiments on all sides of the discussion, but let's make sure that operative discussion points stay apples to apples.

I don't want to speculate on what reasons there might be for that as it's not my place to do so. Those are details of business between the three parties I listed earlier and should really only be addressed by one of them. Bear in mind though none of those three parties are in any way obligated to discuss those details. Just because there are those who are curious about the details doesn't mean they're entitled to know them though.

 

Right, but it is not nearly as complicated as everyone makes it out to be. The real issue as to the Stan exclusivity at public signings has boiled to down to (1) whether Chandler should be able to recoup his costs by charging other facilitators a handling fee (or whatever) to sub books on their own account; (2) whether Stan Lee has really stated that DWC's "handling" of public Stan signings allows/requires Chandler to charge that handling fee.

 

I don't know the answers to those questions, and the answers could very well be both in the affirmative, both in the negative, or somewhere in the middle. I do think that as long as the discussion is civil and not thinly veiled ad hom attacks that it is a worthwhile discussion.

 

My reason for that is that there are a lot of folks who have a lot of connections in this industry and I am not for opening the floodgates to exclusive "pay to play" arrangements. There are already a lot of creators that are charging higher signing fees for SS books. This is just another layer of costs, and I fail to see why we, as the end consumers, can't discuss it in a calm, cool and well-reasoned fashion.

[lscomics]

We're talking about public signings.

Maybe Stan is comfortable working with DWC and wants them to handle all or the majority of his public signings. It's really not your, my or anyone's place to question it other than maybe CGC. Many people in the world today tend to hold the opinion that they're entitled to know all the details but wanting to know it doesn't make it your business.

[lscomics]

It also doesn't make any sense that these same people have continued to argue that DWC has an exclusive deal with Stan Lee for signings. This has been proven to NOT be the case, particularly since NYcomics has announced the Masters 5 signing.

 

 

As has been stated many times, NYComics has a private signing with Stan. The discussion has been involving getting Stan at public conventions where Stan is brought in by the promoters, and whether DWC is the exclusive facilitator through which those submissions can go. Obviously there are strong sentiments on all sides of the discussion, but let's make sure that operative discussion points stay apples to apples.

I don't want to speculate on what reasons there might be for that as it's not my place to do so. Those are details of business between the three parties I listed earlier and should really only be addressed by one of them. Bear in mind though none of those three parties are in any way obligated to discuss those details. Just because there are those who are curious about the details doesn't mean they're entitled to know them though.

 

Right, but it is not nearly as complicated as everyone makes it out to be. The real issue as to the Stan exclusivity at public signings has boiled to down to (1) whether Chandler should be able to recoup his costs by charging other facilitators a handling fee (or whatever) to sub books on their own account; (2) whether Stan Lee has really stated that DWC's "handling" of public Stan signings allows/requires Chandler to charge that handling fee.

 

I don't know the answers to those questions, and the answers could very well be both in the affirmative, both in the negative, or somewhere in the middle. I do think that as long as the discussion is civil and not thinly veiled ad hom attacks that it is a worthwhile discussion.

 

My reason for that is that there are a lot of folks who have a lot of connections in this industry and I am not for opening the floodgates to exclusive "pay to play" arrangements. There are already a lot of creators that are charging higher signing fees for SS books. This is just another layer of costs, and I fail to see why we, as the end consumers, can't discuss it in a calm, cool and well-reasoned fashion.

I agree with you Sean. Mostly? I don't want to see it reach the "pay to play" point either. Although I think it's unfair to expect someone, whether it's Chandler or anyone, about specific details of their business that could potentially be used for competitive applications. Who knows? Maybe there's a clause in whatever agreement was signed in regard to these signings that won't allow certain details to be discussed publicly by the parties involved.

[seanfingh]

I agree with you Sean. Mostly? I don't want to see it reach the "pay to play" point either. Although I think it's unfair to expect someone, whether it's Chandler or anyone, about specific details of their business that could potentially be used for competitive applications. Who knows? Maybe there's a clause in whatever agreement was signed in regard to these signings that won't allow certain details to be discussed publicly by the parties involved.

 

I don't think there is a confidentiality or nondisclosure agreement in place, because this is where Chandler broke down his strategy for the recoupment of his expenses by applying the handling fee (or whatever) to other facilitators' books. Again, not making a value judgment, just outlining the boundaries of the discussion.

 

 

As for Stan Lee signings at a convention. DWC works very closely with both Stan Lee and convention promoters to set up and run the Stan Lee public signings. It is on a case by case basis that Stan decides who will run his signing and who won't. DWC works very closely with the convention promoter for many months in advance to make sure that everything is set up and prepared for Stan to sign at their convention. DWC must pay (airfare, hotel and per dium) to bring staff members to a show to manage the signings. This costs money and as such DWC is granted the opportunity to recover the money spent by DWC. And in this case is why DWC is the one who is in charge of the public signings and as such can decide what circumstance they would allow another facilitator to participate in such a signing.

[wolf_2099]

On the DWC front & public signings.

I don't see how they can be blamed for a handling fee, if you are submitting under your account.

 

I've seen them at shows, they are spending a lot of time & effort, plus the costs of the show to set-up and deal with thousands of people organizing these events, in conjunction with Stan Lee's people. They make their money (I would assume the majority of it) off the SS books submissions.

 

If you want to submit under your account, then are effectively doing the work for free. I see nothing wrong with a handling fee to recoup the costs.

 

If however, there is an exclusivity agreement, or hesitancy to work with anyone else, then the questions need to be asked to Stan Lee's management, not DWC.

 

 

 

To anyone more familiar with the process, is it possible all submissions go through DWC just as a more time effective resolution?

With the amount of signings done in a day, would the time it took to sub under someone else's' account be a lot more work?

[lscomics]

It almost seems like, although I don't like to hypothesize about this, that his point might be along the lines of: There is a lot of time and a certain amount of expenses that goes into handling these signings. As such it detracts from the opportunity to handle submissions to a degree that aren't for Stan Lee. That being the case, other facilitators accepting subs for other creators at the event could/will see an influx of books that DWC won't have time to get done.

 

I don't know.

 

I do know I've dealt with Chandler & Sharon on several occasions. I am by no means a big fish in the SS pond, my funds are pretty limited. Every time they've handled books for me they've done an outstanding job. There's been a couple books that took a while to get back to me and I won't dispute that it occasionally takes a while to get a response to email inquiries but I tend to be patient in general. There were even a couple books they fast tracked for me because of a snafu on a previous submission. They handle a lot of books for a lot of people, these things happen. I'm inclined to be doubtful that every facilitator out there hasn't had some sort of mix up for at least one customer.

 

If people don't want to sub their books through DWC for whatever reason all they have to do is wait for one of the other signings Stan is doing. I don't see the big deal when it comes to what account it goes through. I'd guess that's something that was requested by Stan's people to help keep the numbers straight.

[Hexenmeister-migration]

 

     Remember Stan Lee is isn't gonna live forever, and if DWC has even the slightest influence on him signing at almost every major comic con at age 89, be thankful. Those exclusive signing fees will seem like pocket change after he's dead. So let's deal with the fees, and submission requirements and get those books signed. Or else soon enough you'll be complaining about paying ridiculous prices for the Stan Lee SS books you didn't get signed while he was still alive.

 

[seanfingh]

     Remember Stan Lee is isn't gonna live forever, and if DWC has even the slightest influence on him signing at almost every major comic con at age 89, be thankful. Those exclusive signing fees will seem like pocket change after he's dead. So let's deal with the fees, and submission requirements and get those books signed. Or else soon enough you'll be complaining about paying ridiculous prices for the Stan Lee SS books you didn't get signed while he was still alive.

 

I can certainly understand that mindset. There have been books that I have gotten done that I would have paid whatever extra charges the person setting up the signing wanted to charge.

 

But again, a Bobby Knight-style "lay back and enjoy it" analysis is not likely to sway too many people.

 

[Comicstoastonish-migration]

First the following questions were asked.

you called the owner of the local shop (you called him personally I might add)

Are you denying you made that phone call?

I responded with:

Absolutely. The facts are I received a phone call from a store owner in the Baltimore area asking about joining in on the DWC signing. I never initiated any call. When approached by this individual I explained how we work out such arrangements and left it at that.

My statement that I did not make the initial call to the store owner was backed up by the store owner himself with:

These are the facts.

I called Desert Wind in early July and will look up the date if need be.

So as I had stated before I did NOT initiate any conversation with Mr. Keegan regarding his Stan Lee signing. Prior to that conversation I dont think I have ever had any interaction with Mr. Keegan that I can recall.

Next is the comment:

Friday rolls around and Chandler calls Keegan

And my response to that was you were incorrect. I never called Mr. Keegan on the Friday of the con because I was on a plane Friday flying to Baltimore and again Mr. Keegan confirmed there was no phone call on Friday.

 

Now I believe that Mr. Keegan was correct in saying that I did call him on Tuesday 8/16/11. I called him on the number that I had for him that I believe was from when he called me back in July. I dont know where else I would have gotten his number. I called to simply inquire if he needed any Stan Lee signing tickets as we were getting ready to cut off sales of tickets and I wanted to give him a chance to get tickets if he needed any. I believe him when he says that I said that signing could not take place outside of DWC. But that is a misinterpretation of what I tell people. What I tell people is during the public signing all Stan Lee submissions must go through the DWC account. That is because that is the way it was set up and that is the way it was sanctioned. CGC was very aware of this arrangement and that is why CGC allowed DWC to run the signing and required all submissions to go under the DWC account. It had nothing to do with some magical power DWC had, it simply had to do with accountability when it comes to books submitted to CGC.

 

Now back to the Keegan signing, I was not fully aware of his signing until Saturday at the con and I had no problem with it as long as it did not interfere with the Public Signing during the show that DWC is responsible to run. As for the Keegan signing getting changed that had NOTHING to do with DWC. It might have had something to do with the fact that Stan was in Washington DC on Friday at the Washington Nationals game throwing out the first ball. I would have to assume that is why the signing got changed. I can tell you from experience that the DWC private signings get changed all of the time and we have to adapt to the change in the schedule.

 

So in conclusion, Mr. Keegan nowhere did I ever call you a liar, I simply stated to your associates that they were misinformed and they did not have the facts correct, which you yourself even confirmed. And as to stating that what I said was a lie is not true. With the exception that I forgot that I called you several days before the Baltimore show, which I had forgot about due to the fact that I talk to hundreds of people every month and I dont remember every single call I make. Everything I said was as accurate as I could remember. And remember this is something that happened nine months ago.

 

As I have stated before DWC has no problem with anyone else getting a private signing with Stan Lee. Sean (NYComics) as well as Peter Dixon (both who we work well with) and a handful full of others get signings with Stan on a frequent basis. Stan signs for all kinds of people in private and DWC doesnt get involved in those signings. We are open to new ideas that allow an equatable arrangement between other facilitators and DWC. But please consider that DWC cannot and will not work for 2 or 3 days running Stans signings and lose money because facilitators feel they should be allowed to walk up, get their books signed and submit their books to CGC at a cost less than DWC can.

 

And last we realize that no matter what we say, it will ultimately make no difference as there will be those of you that will continue the attack, accusations and bickering. Just know we are done discussing this matter. Good night!

 

 

 

 

 

I Really don't like being involved in this but the facts are the facts and I have to clear a few things up.

1st off my first name is Keegan, not my last.

 

 

1) When I called Desert Wind in July I did not give my name when I spoke to Chandler. I said I was a Baltimore area store owner and was interested in purchasing 100-200 tickets for my customers. He said all books must be submitted to CGC through him. I said that would not work as my customers don't trust anybody but me to handle the books and was there a way I could pay an upcharge to submit under my account. Chandler said no and then he flat out said he would not sell me those tickets.

At no time during the conversation did I give my name or store name. So this still leads to the question of how he knew to call me and got my number. I will concede that it is possible that he had some brillant foresight to take my number from the caller ID and call me just before the show.

 

 

2) I got a call less than 10 minutes after Chandler called me from Stan's People and was told the Stan Lee Private signing was off due to what they had heard about me from DWC. They were told I was not able to properly handle books, I was unalbe to provide them with CGC invoice numbers and DWC had a "special way of keeping of Stan Lee Sig Books"

I was able to respond to those false statements and prove them inacurate and got the signing done. Some were obvious since CGC codes all of their books and can all be tracked. I explained this to Stan's people amoung other things. This caused several days of concern for me until the singing got done and it had to be moved to DC. Which I had no problem with since it was Stan's time.

 

 

3) At the Pittsburch Comic Con a rep from Desert Wind came to my table and with 3 people standing there flat out told me that I could not have a private signing with Stan she went on to explain that is was not just Comics To Astonish but applied to everyone. I think she was implying I was not being singled out. All singings had to go through Desert Wind. No exceptions

I was also told along with everybody else that we had to pay an additional $20.00 per book to cover Desert Winds costs of doing the show. I have no problem paying an upcharge but $20.00 is really out of bounds since DW does NOTHING to earn that money. I had 20 Masterworks done for a customer at Pittsburgh and it was $50.00 per book. I had 10 CGC books done and it was $70.00 per book. Can you please explain what you do for the extra money?? A reasonable person would say that something in the $5-10 range per book would sound OK. But $20.00 is very excessive.

As a side note together Rich and I had about 200+ books that customers wanted Stan to sign but when weI emailed everybody about the upchage of $20.00 per book only 10 decided to get them done. I can only say that they kept announcing on the intercom that you could still buy tickets to get Stan Signature on Sunday. So my guess they could have used the 200+ books.

 

 

 

4) I hope this is the end of this since I don't like being involved in this mess.

And if Chandler would like to give me a call and talk I will talk with him.

 

 

 

[mschmidt]

If people don't want to sub their books through DWC for whatever reason all they have to do is wait for one of the other signings Stan is doing.

 

Which public signings would those be?

[Transplant]

If people don't want to sub their books through DWC for whatever reason all they have to do is wait for one of the other signings Stan is doing.

 

Which public signings would those be?

The ones DWC does, silly.

[A-DONIS]

Is the horse dead yet?

[spawnfiend]

Is the horse dead yet?

 

Of course not, not til Chandler is apparently drawn and quartered

[Transplant]

Apparently, some of the SS buyers and comicstoastonish feel there's some life left in the old nag yet.

[A-DONIS]