Doug Schmell cashing in his vaulted massive collecion. Poll: Is this the top?

[COI]

Greg Buls purchased the Recil Macon collection in 1991. The way those books were stored a huge majority of them had a pronounced wave to them, some extreme. Greg sent these to Susan Ciccone for flattening. Susan Ciccone also later became a member of NOD. Upon the advent of CGC she also took the stance that pressing was bad. Oddly enough I do not think she ever printed up any of her famous resto certificates for the Recil Macon books, though many of them were and are pressed.

 

Richard;

 

I thought the Macon books that had been worked on by Susan had been both cleaned and pressed at the minimum. I also thought these books received the PLOD from CGC upon grading or were they able to pass CGC 's resto check and still made their way into blue slabs?

The Recil Macon books only needed flattening. They were beautiful otherwise, but they were stored for so long in a haphazard and uneven way that they were very wavy. They were simply pressed. And again, I've never seen a restoration certificate from Susan on these books.

 

I love your ability to whip out a book relevant to any discussion. You have a lot of comics.

[blazingbob]

Watch it.

 

You never want to say to Richard to "Whip it out"

[MrBedrock]

Greg Buls purchased the Recil Macon collection in 1991. The way those books were stored a huge majority of them had a pronounced wave to them, some extreme. Greg sent these to Susan Ciccone for flattening. Susan Ciccone also later became a member of NOD. Upon the advent of CGC she also took the stance that pressing was bad. Oddly enough I do not think she ever printed up any of her famous resto certificates for the Recil Macon books, though many of them were and are pressed.

 

Richard;

 

I thought the Macon books that had been worked on by Susan had been both cleaned and pressed at the minimum. I also thought these books received the PLOD from CGC upon grading or were they able to pass CGC 's resto check and still made their way into blue slabs?

The Recil Macon books only needed flattening. They were beautiful otherwise, but they were stored for so long in a haphazard and uneven way that they were very wavy. They were simply pressed. And again, I've never seen a restoration certificate from Susan on these books.

 

I love your ability to whip out a book relevant to any discussion. You have a lot of comics.

Thank you. And the main reason I enjoy the boards is seeing all the cool books everyone else posts. We are very fortunate to have this place to share.

 

I love the Recil Macon collection. It's from Texas. It has a large number of Timelys. And I was fortunate to be at the first show where Greg Buls had them for sale, in late '90 or early '91 (I remember because I had opened my first store shortly before and I didn't have much loot to buy any books for myself). I've had that Daring for over twenty years now and I've never seen a nicer copy.

[Davenport]

You don't find it the least bit odd that CGB would exhibit amazing effort to report on one eBay comic seller ( Dupak )

"...a year-long investigation involving public records databases, conversations with past customers and federal and local law enforcement officials, tracking of online auction activity, and research into its own archives..."

 

But pure silence on another prominent eBay comic seller (Ewert)?

 

Why would it be odd? The Dupcak article wasn't conceived by CBG, it was pitched to them. I offered to write it myself, but they declined, although I ended up starting a series of pedigree articles that I abandoned after Matt Nelson started working on his pedigrees book. Apparently nobody pitched the Ewert article to them, and it's entirely possible they were unaware of the incident, they may not read these boards and I'm not sure how much awareness of Ewert there is outside of the boards.

 

This hobby is small. If someone's not doing something, do it yourself--that's a more positive approach than biotching or starting conspiracy theories about why people aren't doing something that needs doing.

Wow, the spin-equivalent of "then maybe you should start your own grading company!" Didn't see that one coming.

 

You see it as 'nothing odd' and I see it as a blatant lack of coverage and failure to serve their readership. Either way it's history now and folks will draw their own conclusions. (thumbs u

 

 

[fantastic_four]

Wow, the spin-equivalent of "then maybe you should start your own grading company!" Didn't see that one coming.

 

You see it as 'nothing odd' and I see it as a blatant lack of coverage and failure to serve their readership. Either way it's history now and folks will draw their own conclusions. (thumbs u

 

Exactly what did I just spin? So you're saying it's better to sit there and person_without_enough_empathy at people in the hobby not contributing something you're entirely capable of contributing yourself? You're responding to these posts in what appears to be an eminently clear and competent writing style, so here's something you may not have considered--you're not only capable of writing these exact same words in multi-paragraph article form, but the CBG editors are usually constantly in need of writers, so it'd be win-win for everyone--you, CBG, and the hobby as a whole. If writing yourself is too much work or you're worried that your style wouldn't be up to the scrutiny of a small audience (it really is a small hobby), then just send the idea to CBG so they're aware of it.

 

Thank your fellow forum members (a bunch of them) for that Dupcak article--don't use it to start some conspiracy theory as to what CBG's motives are.

[comicwiz]

There was never any danger of 'the genie escaping the bottle'. CGC had established marketing partnerships with a wide range of comic related businesses. No professional "experts" were bringing anything to the attention of consumers, 100% of it was coming from board posters.

 

Plus, the hobby press wouldn't touch any of it with a ten foot pole.

 

You can read all the "OH, SO? - Speak Your Mind!" responses on the Comics Buyers' Guide site. You might find it interesting, gives a sense of the frustration level as things unfolded: Why Has CBG Not Covered Important Issues In The Hobby?

 

Discussion external to the boards happened, but I don't think there was any chicanery behind the fact it didn't spread to the mainstream. It remains an echo and hotly contested debate in many online areas by numerous people who are influential in the hobby, and that's what's essential.

 

Hobby press coverage would lack the teeth, authenticity and relevance anyway.

You don't find it the least bit odd that CGB would exhibit amazing effort to report on one eBay comic seller ( Dupak )

"...a year-long investigation involving public records databases, conversations with past customers and federal and local law enforcement officials, tracking of online auction activity, and research into its own archives..."

 

But pure silence on another prominent eBay comic seller (Ewert)?

 

Absolutely, and I've stated as much too many times to bother recounting.

 

What I've also said is that putting a face and name to a true hobbyist villain in Fantasia/Dupcak gave the CGC service legitimacy and bred a motivation of fear to buy into it the service line, hook and sinker, or suffer the pitfalls of this hobby's most ruthless.

 

As much as the Ewert scandal rocked this corner of the Web, it was also an embarrassment and exposed a weakness in CGC's restoration detection abilities.

 

One event leveraged a crafty marketing angle, while the other was best left swept under the rug.

 

Sparing the "connection" inferences and conclusions that one could draw-up from the way each situation was covered, the reality is that I see much less inclination for any orchestrated effort to occur between CGC and the hobby press to announce how they messed up.

[COI]

Greg Buls purchased the Recil Macon collection in 1991. The way those books were stored a huge majority of them had a pronounced wave to them, some extreme. Greg sent these to Susan Ciccone for flattening. Susan Ciccone also later became a member of NOD. Upon the advent of CGC she also took the stance that pressing was bad. Oddly enough I do not think she ever printed up any of her famous resto certificates for the Recil Macon books, though many of them were and are pressed.

 

Richard;

 

I thought the Macon books that had been worked on by Susan had been both cleaned and pressed at the minimum. I also thought these books received the PLOD from CGC upon grading or were they able to pass CGC 's resto check and still made their way into blue slabs?

The Recil Macon books only needed flattening. They were beautiful otherwise, but they were stored for so long in a haphazard and uneven way that they were very wavy. They were simply pressed. And again, I've never seen a restoration certificate from Susan on these books.

 

I love your ability to whip out a book relevant to any discussion. You have a lot of comics.

Thank you. And the main reason I enjoy the boards is seeing all the cool books everyone else posts. We are very fortunate to have this place to share.

 

I love the Recil Macon collection. It's from Texas. It has a large number of Timelys. And I was fortunate to be at the first show where Greg Buls had them for sale, in late '90 or early '91 (I remember because I had opened my first store shortly before and I didn't have much loot to buy any books for myself). I've had that Daring for over twenty years now and I've never seen a nicer copy.

 

Many of the books you post I've never seen before like this Daring, and on top of that the copies you post are really nice. I've considered putting you on ignore before because you're going to get me interested in GA.

[seanfingh]

I've considered putting you on ignore before because you're going to get me interested in GA.

 

[MrBedrock]

I've considered putting you on ignore before because you're going to get me interested in GA.

I really don't think that was the reason.

[bluechip]

I am anti-CGC, but I do have to admit that non-disclosure of their business practices, grading standards, etc..., the whole mess is standard operating procedure, and has been from the get go - it is their business.

 

Over the years, I've become more guarded about revealing certain "trade" practices, designs, or processes specific to my business because there are numerous people out there ready to capitalize on this information, either in an opportunistic or purely abusive way.

 

Of course. Competitive advantage is the only thing that keeps businesses profitable.

 

This is a story I've repeated a few times on this chat forum.

 

True story:

 

A company needs a special resin for their project to work.

 

They order the resin from a 2nd company who is an international commodities dealer.

 

That 2nd company finds and orders the resin from a 3rd company who happens to be in the same building as the 1st company that initially needed the resin. They are only a few floors apart.

 

The 2nd company buys the resin from the 3rd company and have it shipped to their offices only to ship it off back to the 1st company who placed the initial order and charge them a tidy but fair profit for the resin.

 

Again, true story.

 

Do they have any obligation to disclose to the end consumer that they are buying the product just a few feet away from them in a different office and that this consumer could have just walked down the hall to buy the product themselves? Of course not.

 

It is the company's competitive advantage (secret knowledge) that allows them to make (and continue making) a profit by buying from and selling to people within the same building.

 

The other option is that the end user source out the product themselves by putting in the work and effort of locating the original supplier.

 

Multiply that scenario by an infinite number and you now have capitalism.

 

There is nothing nefarious about it.

 

Roy being a hippie as well as a capitalist, I would've hoped this would not be his definition of capitalism. It plays into the view that in capitalism everybody's goal is not to provide a unique service or make a unique product and be paid for it but, rather, to outsmart or outmuscle the other guy. It implies that capitalism is not so much a system which allows people to profit if they do something for the common good but rather a system that ignores (or even applauds) the guy who outmaneuvers the other guy. That valuations should be consistent less in which items are valued than in it is in whose items have value. It plays into the view that America is not the place where a hard-working person can accomplish anything, because having such a place is good for all, but is, instead, a place where everybody looks out for number one, that working smarter not harder means working meaner instead of cleaner.

 

And it means that people should not only not care if they destroy other people in the processs but should actually get an extra charge out of knowing it. It implies that, in providing services or goods, emphasis should be placed not on giving the best service or making the best product, but on being the best at squelching competitors and tricking clients and customers.

 

Comics trading and selling was fun to me as a kid because I felt the growth lay in the fact that they were undervalued relative to other collectibles and that would change over time. And I still think there is plenty of room for that sort of growth. But a lot of people don't seem to agree and think it's all about a bubble to be pumped by the smart to suck money from the dumb.

 

 

[Davenport]

Wow, the spin-equivalent of "then maybe you should start your own grading company!" Didn't see that one coming.

 

You see it as 'nothing odd' and I see it as a blatant lack of coverage and failure to serve their readership. Either way it's history now and folks will draw their own conclusions. (thumbs u

 

Exactly what did I just spin? So you're saying it's better to sit there and boitch at people in the hobby not contributing something you're entirely capable of contributing yourself? You're responding to these posts in what appears to be an eminently clear and competent writing style, so here's something you may not have considered--you're not only capable of writing these exact same words in multi-paragraph article form, but the CBG editors are usually constantly in need of writers, so it'd be win-win for everyone--you, CBG, and the hobby as a whole. If writing yourself is too much work or you're worried that your style wouldn't be up to the scrutiny of a small audience (it really is a small hobby), then just send the idea to CBG so they're aware of it.

 

Thank your fellow forum members (a bunch of them) for that Dupcak article--don't use it to start some conspiracy theory as to what CBG's motives are.

Man, I hate going there... I did do the do-it-yourself thing, genius. Ok? Feel better? A whole hell of a lot of people here did the do-it-yourself thing under BronzeBruce's leadership, taking lists of Ewert's eBay victims and contacting each one individually.

 

Maybe you were a part of that effort?

 

All I know is that in an alternate-universe CGC could've easily used its army of marketing partners, including Gemstone Publishing, to put out a simple hobbywide-service-announcement.

 

None of CGC's partnership community did a damn thing that I'm aware of, with one exception: GPA

GPA published an article in their e-newsletter. And major kudos to GPA for recognizing the need and serving the community.

 

[shrunkenhead]

Somebody feel free to kick me if this has already been answered a bazillion times.

 

Pressing uses heat, yes? Do we have any data (maybe from the document/art world) on the long-term effects that the process has on paper? Does a white page book more rapidly age into a c/ow, for example?

 

I've got some GA books that are probably good flattening candidates, but I have hesitations because I'm not sure about long-term effects to PQ...

 

 

[Transplant]

We've been missing a good, pressing, CGC-bashing thread for a while now.

[seanfingh]

We've been missing a good, pressing, CGC-bashing thread for a while now.

 

What it really needs is you to add turnaround times and grader's notes, and turn this into a delicious CG mulligatawny of butthurt and broken dreams.

[fantastic_four]

Man, I hate going there... I did do the do-it-yourself thing, genius. Ok? Feel better? A whole hell of a lot of people here did the do-it-yourself thing under BronzeBruce's leadership, taking lists of Ewert's eBay victims and contacting each one individually.

 

Maybe you were a part of that effort?

 

I wasn't collecting or reading the forums much that year, so no, I didn't participate. Do I feel better? Of course not--destructively pointless criticism such as the type we're seeing in this thread only ever brings me down.

[fantastic_four]

Somebody feel free to kick me if this has already been answered a bazillion times.

 

Pressing uses heat, yes? Do we have any data (maybe from the document/art world) on the long-term effects that the process has on paper? Does a white page book more rapidly age into a c/ow, for example?

 

Not enough to worry about--a ballpark comparative example is that a dry press might decrease the life of a comic about the same as an x-ray, CT scan, or a sunburn decreases your life span. We've discussed it in quite a bit of exhaustive depth in the restoration forum, although probably not within the last few years. An archivist at the Library of Congress told me they consider it enough to only use heat pressing when a piece would otherwise be damaged when put into storage or on display.

[comicwiz]

I am anti-CGC, but I do have to admit that non-disclosure of their business practices, grading standards, etc..., the whole mess is standard operating procedure, and has been from the get go - it is their business.

 

Over the years, I've become more guarded about revealing certain "trade" practices, designs, or processes specific to my business because there are numerous people out there ready to capitalize on this information, either in an opportunistic or purely abusive way.

 

Of course. Competitive advantage is the only thing that keeps businesses profitable.

 

This is a story I've repeated a few times on this chat forum.

 

True story:

 

A company needs a special resin for their project to work.

 

They order the resin from a 2nd company who is an international commodities dealer.

 

That 2nd company finds and orders the resin from a 3rd company who happens to be in the same building as the 1st company that initially needed the resin. They are only a few floors apart.

 

The 2nd company buys the resin from the 3rd company and have it shipped to their offices only to ship it off back to the 1st company who placed the initial order and charge them a tidy but fair profit for the resin.

 

Again, true story.

 

Do they have any obligation to disclose to the end consumer that they are buying the product just a few feet away from them in a different office and that this consumer could have just walked down the hall to buy the product themselves? Of course not.

 

It is the company's competitive advantage (secret knowledge) that allows them to make (and continue making) a profit by buying from and selling to people within the same building.

 

The other option is that the end user source out the product themselves by putting in the work and effort of locating the original supplier.

 

Multiply that scenario by an infinite number and you now have capitalism.

 

There is nothing nefarious about it.

 

Roy being a hippie as well as a capitalist, I would've hoped this would not be his definition of capitalism. It plays into the view that in capitalism everybody's goal is not to provide a unique service or make a unique product and be paid for it but, rather, to outsmart or outmuscle the other guy. It implies that capitalism is not so much a system which allows people to profit if they do something for the common good but rather a system that ignores (or even applauds) the guy who outmaneuvers the other guy. That valuations should be consistent less in which items are valued than in it is in whose items have value. It plays into the view that America is not the place where a hard-working person can accomplish anything, because having such a place is good for all, but is, instead, a place where everybody looks out for number one, that working smarter not harder means working meaner instead of cleaner.

 

And it means that people should not only not care if they destroy other people in the processs but should actually get an extra charge out of knowing it. It implies that, in providing services or goods, emphasis should be placed not on giving the best service or making the best product, but on being the best at squelching competitors and tricking clients and customers.

 

Comics trading and selling was fun to me as a kid because I felt the growth lay in the fact that they were undervalued relative to other collectibles and that would change over time. And I still think there is plenty of room for that sort of growth. But a lot of people don't seem to agree and think it's all about a bubble to be pumped by the smart to suck money from the dumb.

 

 

I don't think dumb is the correct term. Uninformed would be a more appropriate word to describe it.

 

I just spoke with a young collector who just got into it 6 months ago. His Grandfather passed down some old comics and that's what ignited his interest in collecting old back-issues.

 

We got to talking about a shop nearby, and I explained how the store had a raw VG FF 12 priced at $850. I also explained that it was priced well over the value of a similarly graded certified (CGC) copy, and that it didn't seem to matter because a lady walked in a week after I first inquired about the book and bought it at full price. One of the store clerks told me that she was buying it as a gift for her husband.

 

We all have different opinions and words to describe such a situation, but it really comes down to the buyer being uninformed.

[MrBedrock]

We got to talking about a shop nearby, and I explained how the store had a raw VG FF 12 priced at $850. I also explained that it was priced well over the value of a similarly graded certified (CGC) copy, and that it didn't seem to matter because a lady walked in a week after I first inquired about the book and bought it at full price. One of the store clerks told me that she was buying it as a gift for her husband.

 

We all have different opinions and words to describe such a situation, but it really comes down to the buyer being uninformed.

The buyer may be uninformed. But her husband is going to be damn happy!

[comicwiz]

We got to talking about a shop nearby, and I explained how the store had a raw VG FF 12 priced at $850. I also explained that it was priced well over the value of a similarly graded certified (CGC) copy, and that it didn't seem to matter because a lady walked in a week after I first inquired about the book and bought it at full price. One of the store clerks told me that she was buying it as a gift for her husband.

 

We all have different opinions and words to describe such a situation, but it really comes down to the buyer being uninformed.

The buyer may be uninformed. But her husband is going to be damn happy!

 

(thumbs u

[seanfingh]

We got to talking about a shop nearby, and I explained how the store had a raw VG FF 12 priced at $850. I also explained that it was priced well over the value of a similarly graded certified (CGC) copy, and that it didn't seem to matter because a lady walked in a week after I first inquired about the book and bought it at full price. One of the store clerks told me that she was buying it as a gift for her husband.

 

We all have different opinions and words to describe such a situation, but it really comes down to the buyer being uninformed.

The buyer may be uninformed. But her husband is going to be damn happy!

 

Until he finds out his wife paid $850 for a $500 comic.

 

Here's hoping he stays uninformed!