Doug Schmell cashing in his vaulted massive collecion. Poll: Is this the top?

[Straw-Man]

Somebody feel free to kick me if this has already been answered a bazillion times.

 

Pressing uses heat, yes? Do we have any data (maybe from the document/art world) on the long-term effects that the process has on paper? Does a white page book more rapidly age into a c/ow, for example?

 

Not enough to worry about--a ballpark comparative example is that a dry press might decrease the life of a comic about the same as an x-ray, CT scan, or a sunburn decreases your life span. We've discussed it in quite a bit of exhaustive depth in the restoration forum, although probably not within the last few years. An archivist at the Library of Congress told me they consider it enough to only use heat pressing when a piece would otherwise be damaged when put into storage or on display.

 

don't be quoting know-nothing library of congress archivists in a thread where we have authoritative opinions of former NOD pooh-bahs! what the spoon is wrong with you?

[COI]

I am anti-CGC, but I do have to admit that non-disclosure of their business practices, grading standards, etc..., the whole mess is standard operating procedure, and has been from the get go - it is their business.

 

Over the years, I've become more guarded about revealing certain "trade" practices, designs, or processes specific to my business because there are numerous people out there ready to capitalize on this information, either in an opportunistic or purely abusive way.

 

Of course. Competitive advantage is the only thing that keeps businesses profitable.

 

This is a story I've repeated a few times on this chat forum.

 

True story:

 

A company needs a special resin for their project to work.

 

They order the resin from a 2nd company who is an international commodities dealer.

 

That 2nd company finds and orders the resin from a 3rd company who happens to be in the same building as the 1st company that initially needed the resin. They are only a few floors apart.

 

The 2nd company buys the resin from the 3rd company and have it shipped to their offices only to ship it off back to the 1st company who placed the initial order and charge them a tidy but fair profit for the resin.

 

Again, true story.

 

Do they have any obligation to disclose to the end consumer that they are buying the product just a few feet away from them in a different office and that this consumer could have just walked down the hall to buy the product themselves? Of course not.

 

It is the company's competitive advantage (secret knowledge) that allows them to make (and continue making) a profit by buying from and selling to people within the same building.

 

The other option is that the end user source out the product themselves by putting in the work and effort of locating the original supplier.

 

Multiply that scenario by an infinite number and you now have capitalism.

 

There is nothing nefarious about it.

 

Roy being a hippie as well as a capitalist, I would've hoped this would not be his definition of capitalism. It plays into the view that in capitalism everybody's goal is not to provide a unique service or make a unique product and be paid for it but, rather, to outsmart or outmuscle the other guy. It implies that capitalism is not so much a system which allows people to profit if they do something for the common good but rather a system that ignores (or even applauds) the guy who outmaneuvers the other guy. That valuations should be consistent less in which items are valued than in it is in whose items have value. It plays into the view that America is not the place where a hard-working person can accomplish anything, because having such a place is good for all, but is, instead, a place where everybody looks out for number one, that working smarter not harder means working meaner instead of cleaner.

 

And it means that people should not only not care if they destroy other people in the processs but should actually get an extra charge out of knowing it. It implies that, in providing services or goods, emphasis should be placed not on giving the best service or making the best product, but on being the best at squelching competitors and tricking clients and customers.

 

Comics trading and selling was fun to me as a kid because I felt the growth lay in the fact that they were undervalued relative to other collectibles and that would change over time. And I still think there is plenty of room for that sort of growth. But a lot of people don't seem to agree and think it's all about a bubble to be pumped by the smart to suck money from the dumb.

 

 

Are you saying you don't think that's what capitalism is, or at least, what it has become since the 1970s?

[fantastic_four]

don't be quoting know-nothing library of congress archivists in a thread where we have authoritative opinions of former NOD pooh-bahs! what the spoon is wrong with you?

 

I didn't ask them just because I happen to have met one in my travels--the LoC web site has had an "Ask an Archivist" feature on their web site for at least a decade or more. I've asked several questions through that, all of which I posted in the restoration forum over the years.

[namisgr]

The heat is one of the lesser concerns with the effects of pressing on comics.

[bluechip]

I am anti-CGC, but I do have to admit that non-disclosure of their business practices, grading standards, etc..., the whole mess is standard operating procedure, and has been from the get go - it is their business.

 

Over the years, I've become more guarded about revealing certain "trade" practices, designs, or processes specific to my business because there are numerous people out there ready to capitalize on this information, either in an opportunistic or purely abusive way.

 

Of course. Competitive advantage is the only thing that keeps businesses profitable.

 

This is a story I've repeated a few times on this chat forum.

 

True story:

 

A company needs a special resin for their project to work.

 

They order the resin from a 2nd company who is an international commodities dealer.

 

That 2nd company finds and orders the resin from a 3rd company who happens to be in the same building as the 1st company that initially needed the resin. They are only a few floors apart.

 

The 2nd company buys the resin from the 3rd company and have it shipped to their offices only to ship it off back to the 1st company who placed the initial order and charge them a tidy but fair profit for the resin.

 

Again, true story.

 

Do they have any obligation to disclose to the end consumer that they are buying the product just a few feet away from them in a different office and that this consumer could have just walked down the hall to buy the product themselves? Of course not.

 

It is the company's competitive advantage (secret knowledge) that allows them to make (and continue making) a profit by buying from and selling to people within the same building.

 

The other option is that the end user source out the product themselves by putting in the work and effort of locating the original supplier.

 

Multiply that scenario by an infinite number and you now have capitalism.

 

There is nothing nefarious about it.

 

Roy being a hippie as well as a capitalist, I would've hoped this would not be his definition of capitalism. It plays into the view that in capitalism everybody's goal is not to provide a unique service or make a unique product and be paid for it but, rather, to outsmart or outmuscle the other guy. It implies that capitalism is not so much a system which allows people to profit if they do something for the common good but rather a system that ignores (or even applauds) the guy who outmaneuvers the other guy. That valuations should be consistent less in which items are valued than in it is in whose items have value. It plays into the view that America is not the place where a hard-working person can accomplish anything, because having such a place is good for all, but is, instead, a place where everybody looks out for number one, that working smarter not harder means working meaner instead of cleaner.

 

And it means that people should not only not care if they destroy other people in the processs but should actually get an extra charge out of knowing it. It implies that, in providing services or goods, emphasis should be placed not on giving the best service or making the best product, but on being the best at squelching competitors and tricking clients and customers.

 

Comics trading and selling was fun to me as a kid because I felt the growth lay in the fact that they were undervalued relative to other collectibles and that would change over time. And I still think there is plenty of room for that sort of growth. But a lot of people don't seem to agree and think it's all about a bubble to be pumped by the smart to suck money from the dumb.

 

 

Are you saying you don't think that's what capitalism is, or at least, what it has become since the 1970s?

 

I am saying that that, sadly, it has been redefined as that, and in all fairness to the redefiners, that's what it meant back when the word was invented. It was redefined again, by us (and U.S.) as something much better. But now it's reverting to the form it had when it meant simply that there weren't any laws designed to make the country a good place to live instead of a good place to do business if you had more guns than the other guys.

 

As the current redefinition was only part of the way along to its current meaning, I used to joke that the way capitalism was being redefined, Congress might as well make it legal to be a loan shark. And then they did. Now the joke's on us and if it keeps going the way it is we might as well change the country's motto to "winner take all."

 

 

[DeliBebek]

The heat is one of the lesser concerns with the effects of pressing on comics.

So it's not the heat it's the humidity? I read that in a Dave Berg "Lighter Side Of…" strip when I was a kid and I didn't realize what a cliché it was, even then. It pervades as a cliché.

[Transplant]

We've been missing a good, pressing, CGC-bashing thread for a while now.

 

What it really needs is you to add turnaround times and grader's notes, and turn this into a delicious CG mulligatawny of butthurt and broken dreams.

Sadly, no updates for a week now on TATs. And I prefer a good curry to mulligatawny.

[Straw-Man]

The heat is one of the lesser concerns with the effects of pressing on comics.

 

agreed; what it does to the x-ray glasses coupons is what keeps me up at nite.

[Flaming_Telepath]

It's ridiculous how people can't just stick to the facts...

 

The day you can avoid your intrepid editorialising is the day I'll do the same. (thumbs u

[lizards2]

It's ridiculous how people can't just stick to the facts...

 

The day you can avoid your intrepid editorialising is the day I'll do the same. (thumbs u

:: + ::

[HemiGTX]

Well right now Lorna the Jungle Girl, Atlas Kid Colt Outlaws, Two Gun Kids and other Atlas western and war comics. Heard of any of those?

 

 

Hepcat, I don't understand. What has you worried about those kinds of books?

 

Hey! I love Hemi GTXs!

 

Nonetheless, in answer to your question, those are all Atlas comics I might very well be interested in buying in the next three years, finances permitting of course. I don't want to be "duped" into paying a very high price for a seemingly pristine copy only to later discover that Doug Schmell had done a lot of massaging to said comic to make it look that pristine.

 

 

Got it Hep, I Agree...............

[tth2]

Tim, Whether it was "just a spine roll" or waviness, or bends, regardless of what type of defects were being pressed, books were being stand alone pressed to improve their grade pre CGC. That is all I was trying to say. Anything else you guys are inferring is not something that I wrote or implied.

Roy, I conceded that this kind of pressing was indeed done on a stand-alone basis before CGC. I do believe, however, that in those days it was more commonly done in conjunction with some other form of restoration.

 

However, my point is that this is not the kind of pressing that folks are referring to when they debate whether "pressing" was done before CGC. What people are referring to is post-CGC pressing (i.e., "press out a NCB to transform my 9.4 into a 9.6" kind of pressing). Whether Marnin may have done this "modern" kind of stand-alone pressing before CGC, I have no idea, although I do wonder if he was a pioneer in this practice why he seems to be so vehemently opposed to the practice now.

 

Anyways, the fact that keep citing him over and over as an example of pre-CGC stand-alone "modern" pressing actually supports the contention of several people here that such "modern" pressing on a standalone basis was rare and certainly not well known. In contrast, I could name numerous people today who engage in "modern" pressing. When old-time dealers dismiss the pressing issue by saying it happened all the time in the old days, I don't think they are referring to this kind of modern pressing.

[MrBedrock]

When old-time dealers dismiss the pressing issue by saying it happened all the time in the old days, I don't think they are referring to this kind of modern pressing.

Who are you calling "old-time"?

[blazingbob]

When I post about pressing happening pre CGC I am referring to stand along improve the grade pressing.

 

Pressing was also done when covers were cleaned.

 

If I start talking about how covers are cleaned will I start a new revolution of Cover dippers?

 

 

[blazingbob]

I think he is referring to me and the magic marker era. Though if he refers to me as a "chubby" like the magic markers I might have to post some pictures of him.

[Davenport]

If I start talking about how covers are cleaned will I start a new revolution of Cover dippers?

 

Cover dipping too???

I knew it was going on!

 

[VintageComics]

It's ridiculous how people can't just stick to the facts...

 

The day you can avoid your intrepid editorialising is the day I'll do the same. (thumbs u

 

Sorry, but intrepid is a word that Lou really likes and uses a lot so I've been dying to find a way to use it recently. I apologize to the forums for calling Marnin intrepid. It was a glaring defect in my post in an effort to press forward with progress in this hot and humid environment.

 

 

[VintageComics]

Anyways, the fact that keep citing him over and over as an example of pre-CGC stand-alone "modern" pressing actually supports the contention of several people here that such "modern" pressing on a standalone basis was rare and certainly not well known. In contrast, I could name numerous people today who engage in "modern" pressing. When old-time dealers dismiss the pressing issue by saying it happened all the time in the old days, I don't think they are referring to this kind of modern pressing.

 

Admittedly, we've cited "only" 2 major dealers who pressed their books, and this has been supported by both Bedrock and Bob (Storms) - my point is not to push that "everyone" was doing it, it was simply to show that people were doing it.

 

Who knows who else was doing it and not talking about it? It's not like people were compelled to make a discussion out of it. Just like in any industry, if someone has a competitive advantage it's in their best interest to keep it close to their vest.

 

You of all people should agree to that, you elitist snob you.

 

Would it be in your best interest to start a thread detailing how and where you make your money so that we can all jump in on the action?

 

 

[VintageComics]

It's ridiculous how people can't just stick to the facts...

 

The day you can avoid your intrepid editorialising is the day I'll do the same. (thumbs u

:: + ::

 

FU duck lover.

 

[tth2]

Would it be in your best interest to start a thread detailing how and where you make your money so that we can all jump in on the action?

With respect to comics, it's simple:

 

1. spot comics in 2002-2004 that were undervalued

 

2. always go for the highest quality

 

3. don't be afraid to pay up if you feel that your purchase price is still a relative bargain

 

4. hold them for a few years without manipulating them

 

5. sell them for big profits when everyone else realizes how undervalued they are.

 

 

 

For everything else, I lay it all out in the $500 Gold thread.