Bronze Marvel Key First Appearances???

[joecgcmaniac]

Almost 40 years of desirability of the comic and popularity of the character as part of the Marvel Universe is not going to be erased by a couple of bad movies.

Actually I liked the 2004 Punisher Thomas Jane movie,and was surprised that they didn`t have him back for the sequel.

My contention is I just don`t see it as a grail on Incredible Hulk #181 level.

I see it slighly below Marvel Spotlight #5 and much below Iron Man #55.

I am baffled why ASM #129 continually goes for big money on EBay this last decade compared to Marvel Spotlight #5 and Iron Man #55.

 

You have to remember, its not just Punisher fans buying #129, there are also all the Spider-Man collectors who need this issue for their collections. There are far many more collectors of Spidey than collectors of MS #5 and IM #55. Not even a close comparison

[Dr. Balls]

just as lame on-screen to people as a Jedi light-saber dueling Yoda did.

 

 

I didn't realize that "lame" meant "unbelievably awesome" in Montana.

 

Well, things are pretty backwards here. This might explain why I happen to think that Punisher: War Zone is the best Punisher movie they ever made.

[joecgcmaniac]

just as lame on-screen to people as a Jedi light-saber dueling Yoda did.

 

 

I didn't realize that "lame" meant "unbelievably awesome" in Montana.

 

Well, things are pretty backwards here. This might explain why I happen to think that Punisher: War Zone is the best Punisher movie they ever made.

 

 

if things were truly backwards there, then the Dolph Lundgren Punisher movie would be the best Punisher movie ever made

 

 

[Prince Namor]

Almost 40 years of desirability of the comic and popularity of the character as part of the Marvel Universe is not going to be erased by a couple of bad movies.

Actually I liked the 2004 Punisher Thomas Jane movie,and was surprised that they didn`t have him back for the sequel.

My contention is I just don`t see it as a grail on Incredible Hulk #181 level.

I see it slighly below Marvel Spotlight #5 and much below Iron Man #55.

I am baffled why ASM #129 continually goes for big money on EBay this last decade compared to Marvel Spotlight #5 and Iron Man #55.

 

You have to remember, its not just Punisher fans buying #129, there are also all the Spider-Man collectors who need this issue for their collections. There are far many more collectors of Spidey than collectors of MS #5 and IM #55. Not even a close comparison

 

+1

Between this and what Dr. Balls pointed out, it pretty much sums up why it's one of the most desired books of that era. The modern movie crowd isn't what dictates the overall market, it simply creates some spikes.

Marvel Preview #7 will NEVER, NEVER compete with ASM #129. That's just crazy to even think.

 

The Punisher's popularity was HUGE in the world of comics. He had 3 monthly books at one point.

Rocket Raccoon? Not so much.

 

Regardless of how cool they make him in the movie, it's not going to translate into anything like an ASM #129, because comic buyers won't see it as 'key'.

Now IM #55, has a chance to spike and plateau into some decent money, but it has a number of other things going for it:

Mainstream title, first appearance of one of the great Marvel villians, already a well sought after book, under rated status as a key, etc.

 

 

 

[jjonahjameson1]

Almost 40 years of desirability of the comic and popularity of the character as part of the Marvel Universe is not going to be erased by a couple of bad movies.

Actually I liked the 2004 Punisher Thomas Jane movie,and was surprised that they didn`t have him back for the sequel.

My contention is I just don`t see it as a grail on Incredible Hulk #181 level.

I see it slighly below Marvel Spotlight #5 and much below Iron Man #55.

I am baffled why ASM #129 continually goes for big money on EBay this last decade compared to Marvel Spotlight #5 and Iron Man #55.

 

You have to remember, its not just Punisher fans buying #129, there are also all the Spider-Man collectors who need this issue for their collections. There are far many more collectors of Spidey than collectors of MS #5 and IM #55. Not even a close comparison

 

+1

Between this and what Dr. Balls pointed out, it pretty much sums up why it's one of the most desired books of that era. The modern movie crowd isn't what dictates the overall market, it simply creates some spikes.

Marvel Preview #7 will NEVER, NEVER compete with ASM #129. That's just crazy to even think.

 

The Punisher's popularity was HUGE in the world of comics. He had 3 monthly books at one point.

Rocket Raccoon? Not so much.

 

Regardless of how cool they make him in the movie, it's not going to translate into anything like an ASM #129, because comic buyers won't see it as 'key'.

Now IM #55, has a chance to spike and plateau into some decent money, but it has a number of other things going for it:

Mainstream title, first appearance of one of the great Marvel villians, already a well sought after book, under rated status as a key, etc.

 

I remember when Thanos Quest was released and a few folks started to quietly scour the back issue bins for IM 55, and prices rose ever so slightly (of course, this was before the days of ebay instant information via the internet). Then Infinity Gauntlet was released, and Thanos found a new following (remember, this was the time when character with attitude were at their peak: Ghost Rider, Wolverine & Punisher) and prices for IM 55 spiked in the monthly Overstreet Update. And then the book plateaued. I remember reading this book and thinking it didn't have much substance as a 1st appearance. Sure, Thanos played a role behind the scences, and he was visible for a few panels, but I was always hesitant to sink big money into this book because it felt more like a cameo appearance rather than his 1st full appearance.

 

I'd like to hear someone else's thoughts on this book.

[oakman29]

I never truly understood the whole Cameo/1st full appearance thing.My opinion is if they appeared in the comic that should be their first appearance.Example Incredible Hulk #181 vs. Incredible Hulk #180,my opinion is Wolverines 1st app.is IH 180.

Thoughts.

[marmat]

I never truly understood the whole Cameo/1st full appearance thing.My opinion is if they appeared in the comic that should be their first appearance.Example Incredible Hulk #181 vs. Incredible Hulk #180,my opinion is Wolverines 1st app.is IH 180.

Thoughts.

 

You are right sir.

I mean, in Hulk 180 he appears in full figure in the whole page......this is not a cameo

[Brian48]

Actually, I believe that would be considered a cameo. Wolverine had no part in the main story for that issue. I do agree that should noted and valued as his first appearance though. Hell, Darkseid's first appearance was just a cameo as well.

[seanfingh]

I never truly understood the whole Cameo/1st full appearance thing.My opinion is if they appeared in the comic that should be their first appearance.Example Incredible Hulk #181 vs. Incredible Hulk #180,my opinion is Wolverines 1st app.is IH 180.

Thoughts.

 

180 is the 1st appearance

181 is the first full appearance.

Collectors have spoken with their dollars that 181 is 50x more desirable than 180.

 

PS: 180 will never be the important book.

[seanfingh]

 

Also, a brand new character can not have a "cameo" appearance. Cameos are appearances by famous or at least established actors in minor, pop-in roles. That has been co-opted into comics, but logic dictates that if a concept is co-opted so should its application. Thus if Clark Kent shows up in Thor - that is a cameo, because Kent is an established character. Wolvie's appearance in 180 can't be a cameo, because no one knows who he is at that point.

 

Attribution: This was first (and more eloquently) elucidated by Joe Collector, who was occasionally awesome.

[Prince Namor]

I never truly understood the whole Cameo/1st full appearance thing.My opinion is if they appeared in the comic that should be their first appearance.Example Incredible Hulk #181 vs. Incredible Hulk #180,my opinion is Wolverines 1st app.is IH 180.

Thoughts.

 

180 is the 1st appearance

181 is the first full appearance.

Collectors have spoken with their dollars that 181 is 50x more desirable than 180.

 

PS: 180 will never be the important book.

 

+1

And I think the whole thing can be traced back to the reason people bought back issues back in the day in the first place. To read them.

If you go looking for Wolverine's first appearance, you want to read a story about the character, not buy an issue where he appears in the last panel. Having him on the cover of 181 is an even bigger bonus.

[Gatsby77]

I've resigned myself to first appearances being dictated by fandom.

 

Never understood why Hulk 180 is "just a cameo" why Eternal Warrior 4 (likewise a cameo) gets credit for being the first Bloodshot, rather than EW 5 (on the cover, in the issue more).

 

Likewise, I've always thought it was bunk that Daredevil 159's considered "2nd Elektra" when she's in 1.5 pages, something like 9 panels, more than half of them in shadow. That's a cameo, folks, not an "appearance."

 

And I will fight tooth and nail that either GI Combat 68 or OAAW 81 deserves to be Sgt. Rock's first appearance, but the pendulum has shifted to OAAW 83. C'mon. GI Combat 68 is drawn by Kubert and it's clear it's about Sgt. Rock. He acts like the character and it's called "The Rock and the Wall," so he's named.

 

Turns out, the first appearance is whatever fandom decrees, and (as with OAAW 83 vs. 81) that can change over time.

[zuulioso]

Thor 225 - Firelord

Giant Size Fantastic Four 4 - Jamie Madrox (I am on a Madrox kick)

Avengers Annual 10 - Rogue (1981 too late?)

[Naelbis]

I never truly understood the whole Cameo/1st full appearance thing.My opinion is if they appeared in the comic that should be their first appearance.Example Incredible Hulk #181 vs. Incredible Hulk #180,my opinion is Wolverines 1st app.is IH 180.

Thoughts.

 

180 is the 1st appearance

181 is the first full appearance.

Collectors have spoken with their dollars that 181 is 50x more desirable than 180.

 

PS: 180 will never be the important book.

 

+1

And I think the whole thing can be traced back to the reason people bought back issues back in the day in the first place. To read them.

If you go looking for Wolverine's first appearance, you want to read a story about the character, not buy an issue where he appears in the last panel. Having him on the cover of 181 is an even bigger bonus.

I haven't managed to get my hands on a copy of 181 to read, but I have seen the cameo in 180. While not as involved, knowing that it was the first time he was ever drawn in a comic was pretty cool.

[dgarthwaite-migration]

I'm looking for key first appearances from 1970 - 1982. Key like punisher, not man-wolf.

 

 

I believe the Man-Wolf was/is an equally interesting character.

The Punisher’s success is largely unjustified, and even more is the price of Amazing Spider-Man #129.

 

Please explain why you think the Punisher's success is largely unjustified?

 

Punisher is actually quite lame. He's just a guy with a bad attitude and a gun. I'm sure you can find that at any NRA gathering. For many years, Amazing Spider-Man #129 was collected as the first appearance of the Jackyl, not the Punisher.

 

DG

I'd like to know when? I've been collecting well before 1974 when ASM #129 came out,and it's always been about the Punisher on that book.

 

You must have a selective memory. For many years Punisher was mentioned as an afterthought. Any old Overstreet will list this as the 1st Jackyl appearance and that was a more significant part of the buzz about the book.

 

DG

[dgarthwaite-migration]

I never truly understood the whole Cameo/1st full appearance thing.My opinion is if they appeared in the comic that should be their first appearance.Example Incredible Hulk #181 vs. Incredible Hulk #180,my opinion is Wolverines 1st app.is IH 180.

Thoughts.

 

180 is the 1st appearance

181 is the first full appearance.

Collectors have spoken with their dollars that 181 is 50x more desirable than 180.

 

PS: 180 will never be the important book.

 

+1

And I think the whole thing can be traced back to the reason people bought back issues back in the day in the first place. To read them.

If you go looking for Wolverine's first appearance, you want to read a story about the character, not buy an issue where he appears in the last panel. Having him on the cover of 181 is an even bigger bonus.

I haven't managed to get my hands on a copy of 181 to read, but I have seen the cameo in 180. While not as involved, knowing that it was the first time he was ever drawn in a comic was pretty cool.

 

Wolverine appears on the letter's page in issue #184. It's a cool page to read and the book is pretty cheap.

 

DG

[dgarthwaite-migration]

Haters gonna hate. Regardless of whether you like the character or not, the reality is that fandom has decreed that the 1st app of the Punisher is a major key.

 

It has become a major key. I never said it wasn't. I paid 20¢ for my copy. If I had to pay current prices, I'd spend my money on something else instead.

 

DG

[dgarthwaite-migration]

I'm looking for key first appearances from 1970 - 1982. Key like punisher, not man-wolf.

 

 

I believe the Man-Wolf was/is an equally interesting character.

The Punisher’s success is largely unjustified, and even more is the price of Amazing Spider-Man #129.

 

Please explain why you think the Punisher's success is largely unjustified?

 

Punisher is actually quite lame. He's just a guy with a bad attitude and a gun. I'm sure you can find that at any NRA gathering. For many years, Amazing Spider-Man #129 was collected as the first appearance of the Jackyl, not the Punisher.

 

DG

I'd like to know when? I've been collecting well before 1974 when ASM #129 came out,and it's always been about the Punisher on that book.

 

Yeah, just a guy with a bad attitude and a gun that's taken out DD, Spidey and host of others. Just a guy with a bad attitude and a gun that's had three concurrent monthly titles. He may not be your cup of tea, but he's definitely not lame.

 

You are aware that comics are fiction and the writer determines the outcome of a battle? He's definitely lame whether people like him or not. Archie was a success and far more popular. In a world full of superheroes, he would be lame to read about too.

 

Hulk vs Punisher... Punsher would be a greasy spot afterwards.

 

DG

[jjonahjameson1]

Haters gonna hate. Regardless of whether you like the character or not, the reality is that fandom has decreed that the 1st app of the Punisher is a major key.

 

It has become a major key. I never said it wasn't. I paid 20¢ for my copy. If I had to pay current prices, I'd spend my money on something else instead.

 

DG

 

Such as...?

[jjonahjameson1]

I'm looking for key first appearances from 1970 - 1982. Key like punisher, not man-wolf.

 

 

I believe the Man-Wolf was/is an equally interesting character.

The Punisher’s success is largely unjustified, and even more is the price of Amazing Spider-Man #129.

 

Please explain why you think the Punisher's success is largely unjustified?

 

Punisher is actually quite lame. He's just a guy with a bad attitude and a gun. I'm sure you can find that at any NRA gathering. For many years, Amazing Spider-Man #129 was collected as the first appearance of the Jackyl, not the Punisher.

 

DG

I'd like to know when? I've been collecting well before 1974 when ASM #129 came out,and it's always been about the Punisher on that book.

 

Yeah, just a guy with a bad attitude and a gun that's taken out DD, Spidey and host of others. Just a guy with a bad attitude and a gun that's had three concurrent monthly titles. He may not be your cup of tea, but he's definitely not lame.

 

You are aware that comics are fiction and the writer determines the outcome of a battle? He's definitely lame whether people like him or not. Archie was a success and far more popular. In a world full of superheroes, he would be lame to read about too.

 

Hulk vs Punisher... Punsher would be a greasy spot afterwards.

 

DG

 

And to date, the only Archie/hero crossover has been Archie meets the Punisher.

 

And by the way, if your Man-Wolf ever met the Hulk, he'd be a greasy spot afterwards, too.

 

You're making this way too easy.

 

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