ASM 41: Was this trimmed or production flaw?

[loadstone]

Just received this book today sold as FN 6.0 raw but upon closer inspection it is likely more of a FN- due to 2 tears: 1 on mid right front cover and mid left back cover edges. What's more, when I pulled out my own copy of ASM 41 that I was looking to upgrade for obvious reasons (funny writing on Rhino's face) I first noticed something was wrong with the new copy I purchased as it seemed to fit better in the Standard Mylite2 Full back and sleeve than my old copy. When I lay the new copy on top of my old copy it's clear that the new copy is about a quarter inch thinner from the right side than my old copy. See pics below:

 

New copy is on the left measures 6.75". My old copy with the face art is on the right measures 7" hmm...

 

Closer look at the new one

 

And the old one

 

New on top of old:

 

Closeup of overlap from top

 

New issue has thinner borders at margin

 

Interior Front Cover. New on left.

 

Closeup of overlap from midsection. Hmmm... small tear and suspicious white speck

 

Closeup of bottom edge showing more white specks

 

Could these small white specks be caused by a guillotine trimmer?

 

Closeup of the edge of pages from the top back cover

 

Closeup of the edge of pages from the mid Front Cover

 

And from the bottom

 

Is this obvious trimming? Or could this have just been one heck of a flaw in the printing cut? Is it common to find SA ASM's under 7" wide due to original production printing cuts? The white specks on the FC edge look awfully suspicious to me but I don't have a well trained eye for spotting trimming. The edges of the pages don't appear any whiter and appear to match the same color as the margins. Your thoughts? The seller offers refunds so I may end up returning. It's better to look at than my old copy but the trimming would bother me.

 

Thanks!

[jimjum12]

Looks like a factory miscut....common for that time period. The edges of the pages on the right side appear gradually start flush at the bottom and become beveled slightly at the top....which is typical. GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[rodan57]

Closeup of overlap from top

 

Quite a difference in size, even for the period.

 

Paper does spread out from the top of the book as the book ages -- but the way the paper looks on your new book does not look typical or match the traditional pattern as evidenced on your original book.

 

Given the edge wear that exists now, I'd suspect a trim many years ago. If I were to pick this book up at a show, I would put it back into the bin after seeing the edge closely.

[shadroch]

tough call. It certainly doesn't appear to be a recent trim, but there is a lot of book missing.

[Ze-man]

Closeup of the edge of pages from the mid Front Cover

 

And from the bottom

 

 

It certainly looks odd, overall.

 

But, there are matching landmarks from the blade used to initially trim the comic on both interior, and back cover edge. Which means the comic is not trimmed.

 

That said, the front cover edge looks a bit too clean.

 

Impossible to really tell from photos though, I would return it if it bothers you.

[Foxtrot70]

I agree w Jimbo, manufacturing quality. As part of the analysis, go on ebay and study covers - centering etc on that issue to get sense of variation. I personally have done this on other books and found it helpful. The norm seems to be the book you think is trimmed. In the past I had measured early SA Marvels in same period (my own collection), then focused on early FFs and found variation in size from issue to issue variation. I also looked at specific issues, like 11 and 14 and found differences, which i compared w books at the local comic shop.

 

Conclusion: I'd keep the book. My 2cents.

 

 

[jimjum12]

I agree w Jimbo, manufacturing quality. As part of the analysis, go on ebay and study covers - centering etc on that issue to get sense of variation. I personally have done this on other books and found it helpful. The norm seems to be the book you think is trimmed. In the past I had measured early SA Marvels in same period (my own collection), then focused on early FFs and found variation in size from issue to issue variation. I also looked at specific issues, like 11 and 14 and found differences, which i compared w books at the local comic shop.

 

Conclusion: I'd keep the book. My 2cents.

 

 

......also, the fact that beveling is still psesent where it should be, coupled with the fact that the bottom of the book looks the same size as the other makes it almost a shoo in for a miscut diagnosis. The book still needs to be viewed in hand.GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[Calamerica]

1/4" is PROBABLY a trim job.

 

In this case they trimmed not only the cover both sides, they trimmed the interior pages too.

 

If I would be able to see the comic in person I could tell instantly. Pics are very hard to tell.

 

CAL who has been sold enough trimmed comics that reminds me of that "Porky's" movie quote: " Enough wool to knit a sweater"...

[Columbia Comics]

1/4" is PROBABLY a trim job.

 

In this case they trimmed not only the cover both sides, they trimmed the interior pages too.

 

If I would be able to see the comic in person I could tell instantly. Pics are very hard to tell.

 

CAL who has been sold enough trimmed comics that reminds me of that "Porky's" movie quote: " Enough wool to knit a sweater"...

 

 

CAL the nice guy..offering solid advice to a noob

[50 CENT LONG BOX]

1/4" is PROBABLY a trim job.

 

In this case they trimmed not only the cover both sides, they trimmed the interior pages too.

 

If I would be able to see the comic in person I could tell instantly. Pics are very hard to tell.

 

CAL who has been sold enough trimmed comics that reminds me of that "Porky's" movie quote: " Enough wool to knit a sweater"...

 

Trimming is "moral turpitude".

 

Anyone who quotes Porky's can't be all bad!!

[loadstone]

Thank you to all and I apologize for the late reply. I've been pre-occupied by the storm. I appreciate all the input and comments. I decided that the book's cover tears, the possibility of trimming (how flush the inner pages are with the cover), and the sheer amount of the cover that is missing will bother me enough to not enjoy having this copy in my collection. I've decided to return it.

 

I contacted the seller (ebayID: qualitycomix) (if he's a board member perhaps he can chime in) who promptly replied claiming that the book is "unrestored" and is actually from an "original owner collection". Furthermore he counters that he "submits thousands of books to CGC and they allow for tears up to 9.2 NM-" and I'm likely to "miss out on nice books" because of this. None of my CGC books 7.0 and above have cover tears beyond a tiny 1/8" spine split and though I may be novice to CGC books, I've yet to see a NM- book possess cover edge tears. Have any of you witnessed a book with tears graded this high? Is there usually an exception to allow SA comics of the ASM #41 caliber of issue importance to receive a grade as high as 9.2 NM- with 2 cover tears 1/4" to 1/2"? I can understand if we're talking about an important GA book or an AF15 or ASM #1-10, but ASM#41 even if it is the 1st appearance of Rhino? Overstreet guide first mentions cover tears in the FN- category. I assumed this was a strict rule that nothing above FN- can have a cover tear unless the book condition is otherwise immaculate. But this book clearly has other flaws.

 

My questions to him are: if he thinks so highly of this book's "market" condition why give it such a conservative rating of a FN 6.0 to sell? And if he sends thousands of books to CGC and expects this to merit such a high grade, why not send it in himself? I'm tempted to send it in myself just out of principle but doubt he'd accept refund after waiting a month+ and having it come back under a lesser grade or with the purple label. So I think I'm just going to recoup my money and look out for a legit nice looking CGC 6.0+ ASM#41 that I can crack open and enjoy reading and admiring.

 

Thanks!

[BlowUpTheMoon]

 

I contacted the seller (ebayID: qualitycomix) (if he's a board member perhaps he can chime in)

 

He is.

[loadstone]

He replied to my questions with clarification. He definitely gets an A+ for great communication in addition to the great packing job he did, and can't complain about the free shipping. He clarified what he meant in that the "tears would not preclude the book from receiving a 6.0 grade" and that "A spine split is the exact same as a tear in CGC's eyes." I wouldn't be surprised about that. Ultimately it's a fair point. However, not one that I would agree with. If nothing else, he provided me with a valuable tip in that even with CGC comics, you still have to ask questions about its condition from sellers and not take them all on face value. I usually do ask about the case condition but will ask the same questions I would about a raw issue and buy the graders notes if I have to for lower end issues.

 

I still prefer a cover without tears and, production flaw or restoration, I'd really love to have that extra 1/4" of the cover present. I'll take the spine roll, spine stress, spine creases, rusty staples, and moderate creases and cream pages over tears, writing, and 1/4" miscut or any restoration any day. Sorry I had to go through all this on here but it helped me as a collector identify what I am and am not willing to accept in comic defects. Search continues...

 

Thanks,

 

 

[DiceX]

The variance in sizes absolutely can be the result of variance in production. There is no limit to how much it can be off.

 

Let me say this for the thousandth time, you can not tell if a book was trimmed by checking the size.

You can not tell if a book was trimmed by checking the size.

 

You can not tell if a book was trimmed by checking the size.

 

Was your book trimmed? I don't know. It's impossible to tell by looking a few pictures. Some trim jobs are better than others. Some pictures show it better than others.

But I do know one thing, you can not tell if a book was trimmed by checking the size.

 

Just for clarification to the other board members chiming in, you can not tell if a book was trimmed by checking the size.

 

 

[Point Five]

Can you tell if... Whoops, never mind. Sorry.

 

 

[Muaythai607]

yah you can't really tell due to size variance if it was trimmed..