ttfitz Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 for this argument, comps do need to happen in a controlled environment...we are not discussing avg prices for grades (grades that encompass all variables that make up said grade) , we are discussing a specific variable that can only be "compared" in a controlled environment to truly see an effect... While I tend to side with Jay's argument, I am not at all surprised by your experience as stated in your message about offering two books with different PQs, that the better one sold for more. Assuming your statements on the comparative conditions of the books are correct - and no reason not to, particularly given your statement of people asking why one was priced higher than the other supports the notion that they were viewed similarly - it simply makes sense that the "better" book sold for more than the other. Faster, I'm not going to say I'm surprised about, but any number of factors could contribute to that one - the kind of customer you likely attract, or seller bias (you, of course, want to make the higher sale, and, as you admit, your answer to the question of different prices is essentially "this is the nicer book") - so I don't know that you've shown that faster was due to the PQ, but it could have been, too. But I think the more you control the variables, whether it's your examples where we are told the PQ was the only difference, or looking at high grade Hulk 181 which are likely to be more alike in other respects than most, the more you take yourself away from Jay's argument, at least as I understand it. If the books in question only differ in PQ and nothing else, then it really isn't applicable to his argument. Once again, as I see his argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydogrules Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Yes ttfitz, I think you have quite accurately summarized the respective positions. (thumbs u I think now is as good a time as any to try to get the thread back on point, by posting a scan of my own humble copy (purchased from Joey D. two years ago): As for the book's future pricing prospects, I would say that they are indeed bright for the short and mid-term, as the book really does seem to be picking up steam in all grades (and "PQ's" ). (And yes, I am acutely aware of the irony of the "PQ" that's on the label of the copy that I own relative to my arguments and observations on the subject. ) -J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.tor Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 well, at least now I know what to price my 5.5 at (based on heritages sale a few minutes ago) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiveTurkeyMoFo Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Because it still happened. The sales still happened and you cannot ignore/discount/minimize them just because they don't fit the narrative that you choose to believe in. -J. It's just plain silly that you are attempting to use one of the few auction houses that "doesn't" report to GPA, and has no readily accessible archived results, in lieu of the litany of data from basically every other vendor that does in order to "prove" a point that is easily (and has been) disproved. -J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaSealed Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 I wonder if a boardie won the 5.5. It seems like it was a great deal compared to what some thought the book was currently worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttfitz Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Yes ttfitz, I think you have quite accurately summarized the respective positions. (thumbs u I think now is as good a time as any to try to get the thread back on point, by posting a scan of my own humble copy (purchased from Joey D. two years ago): As for the book's future pricing prospects, I would say that they are indeed bright for the short and mid-term, as the book really does seem to be picking up steam in all grades (and "PQ's" ). (And yes, I am acutely aware of the irony of the "PQ" that's on the label of the copy that I own relative to my arguments and observations on the subject. ) -J. Sure, youse that own a copy think the pricing future is bright; for me it is rather glum, as it becomes less and less likely that I will own a copy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydogrules Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Yes ttfitz, I think you have quite accurately summarized the respective positions. (thumbs u I think now is as good a time as any to try to get the thread back on point, by posting a scan of my own humble copy (purchased from Joey D. two years ago): As for the book's future pricing prospects, I would say that they are indeed bright for the short and mid-term, as the book really does seem to be picking up steam in all grades (and "PQ's" ). (And yes, I am acutely aware of the irony of the "PQ" that's on the label of the copy that I own relative to my arguments and observations on the subject. ) -J. Sure, youse that own a copy think the pricing future is bright; for me it is rather glum, as it becomes less and less likely that I will own a copy. There is still some room in the book. Like Dan Gallo says in most of his ebay listings, "sometimes you just have to bite the bullet". -J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accessndx Posted May 28, 2015 Author Share Posted May 28, 2015 I wonder if a boardie won the 5.5. It seems like it was a great deal compared to what some thought the book was currently worth. Seems like it's in step with what's been selling so far. It's even over 1K a grade if you set the price for a 5.5 at $5500.00. At just a coupla bucks shy of 6K puts that at about 1.09K per grade pt. http://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/the-brave-and-the-bold-28-justice-league-of-america-dc-1960-cgc-fn-55-off-white-pages/a/7136-91316.s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaSealed Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 The 5.5 that just sold was a far better deal than the last few copies that sold IMO, so I see it as a fairly weak price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiveTurkeyMoFo Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 I wonder if a boardie won the 5.5. It seems like it was a great deal compared to what some thought the book was currently worth. Based on the sale of my own 5.5 just yesterday on the boards, I'd say that price is exactly in line with the current market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
namisgr Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 I wonder if a boardie won the 5.5. It seems like it was a great deal compared to what some thought the book was currently worth. Based on the sale of my own 5.5 just yesterday on the boards, I'd say that price is exactly in line with the current market. But what about the page quality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiveTurkeyMoFo Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 I wonder if a boardie won the 5.5. It seems like it was a great deal compared to what some thought the book was currently worth. Based on the sale of my own 5.5 just yesterday on the boards, I'd say that price is exactly in line with the current market. But what about the page quality? Price of Tea in China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydogrules Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 I wonder if a boardie won the 5.5. It seems like it was a great deal compared to what some thought the book was currently worth. Based on the sale of my own 5.5 just yesterday on the boards, I'd say that price is exactly in line with the current market. But what about the page quality? Price of Tea in China. Indeed. Frankly, I found your 5.5 to be a superior example than the one on Heritage. The one on Heritage looked graded a little soft to me and I believe the final price reflected that. -J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimik Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 To be honest, I thought the 5.5 on Heritage was overgraded. Looking at the large crease on the bottom right, the crease in the upper left and apparent 1/2" (or a bit more) split at the top of the spine, the tear on the upper right side, and other areas (along the spine, mid right side) with creasing/wear it is more of a 4.5/5.0 IMHO. It does have nice color and a clean white back cover, but there is too much damage on the front for a 5.5 as far as I can see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumiho Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 To be honest, I thought the 5.5 on Heritage was overgraded. Looking at the large crease on the bottom right, the crease in the upper left and apparent 1/2" (or a bit more) split at the top of the spine, the tear on the upper right side, and other areas (along the spine, mid right side) with creasing/wear it is more of a 4.5/5.0 IMHO. It does have nice color and a clean white back cover, but there is too much damage on the front for a 5.5 as far as I can see. +1 I was thinking of placing a high bid a few days ago and kept looking at the book inch by inch (i didnt want to put in a bid without really checking it out) I posted a calibration test on pgm awhile ago and that book was cbcs 4.5 but it presented better and I can say in better shape than the 5.5 on HA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiveTurkeyMoFo Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 I wonder if a boardie won the 5.5. It seems like it was a great deal compared to what some thought the book was currently worth. Based on the sale of my own 5.5 just yesterday on the boards, I'd say that price is exactly in line with the current market. But what about the page quality? Price of Tea in China. Indeed. Frankly, I found your 5.5 to be a superior example than the one on Heritage. The one on Heritage looked graded a little soft to me and I believe the final price reflected that. -J. I preferred the back cover on the Heritage copy, much cleaner then my own. But then, people rarely buy these gems with the back cover in mind. The Heritage copy also easily won the preservation contest between the two, both in terms of appeal and page quality, but mine was clearly superior where it mattered most: front cover appeal. All that being said, I think I made out for the better considering what is owed Heritage in terms of the buyer's juice, seller's fees, and time lost for the consignment. I'm still at a loss to explain the demand for the book at these price points...of course, I couldn't forsee AF 15 selling for $22k in 5.0 either, so Nostradamus I am not.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunsicker Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 I wonder if a boardie won the 5.5. It seems like it was a great deal compared to what some thought the book was currently worth. Based on the sale of my own 5.5 just yesterday on the boards, I'd say that price is exactly in line with the current market. But what about the page quality? Price of Tea in China. Indeed. Frankly, I found your 5.5 to be a superior example than the one on Heritage. The one on Heritage looked graded a little soft to me and I believe the final price reflected that. -J. I preferred the back cover on the Heritage copy, much cleaner then my own. But then, people rarely buy these gems with the back cover in mind. The Heritage copy also easily won the preservation contest between the two, both in terms of appeal and page quality, but mine was clearly superior where it mattered most: front cover appeal. All that being said, I think I made out for the better considering what is owed Heritage in terms of the buyer's juice, seller's fees, and time lost for the consignment. I'm still at a loss to explain the demand for the book at these price points...of course, I couldn't forsee AF 15 selling for $22k in 5.0 either, so Nostradamus I am not.... I'm at a loss for comics prices in general going up as fast and as far as they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r100comics Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 J, there's one major flaw in your argument. For every example you have ever found of a copy with lesser page quality selling for higher, whether due to some other positive quality or a combination of events and factors, those copies would have sold for even more with better page quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VintageComics Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 J, there's one major flaw in your argument. For every example you have ever found of a copy with lesser page quality selling for higher, whether due to some other positive quality or a combination of events and factors, those copies would have sold for even more with better page quality. YES!! FOR ENGLAND!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydogrules Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 J, there's one major flaw in your argument. For every example you have ever found of a copy with lesser page quality selling for higher, whether due to some other positive quality or a combination of events and factors, those copies would have sold for even more with better page quality. That would be called either "speculation" or "wishful thinking" depending on who you were talking to. -J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...