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Bronze age comics that are heating up on eBay...
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Started by PeterPark,

11,732 posts in this topic

catch21

catch21

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

 

i didn't know there was an issue on Gamora's first full appearance. i thought all the while it was Strange Tales 180

If you read both issues, 180 comes off more like a cameo and her name isn't revealed until #181

 

Sorry fellas, I agree with CGC ST 180 is the first appearance Gamora not cameo. She is talking and shown in multiple panels and key part in the current story. No way CGC changes this.

 

reference: similar issue

 

iron man 118

 

There is not much dispute on this one, 180 is first.

 

I agree with the contention that #180 is more of a cameo appearance. Just read them recently, and came away with that perspective.

 

RMA do you know a book that has similar character appearance that was labeled Cameo? when I say similar, I am not talking the last page or where the story refers to a book that wasn't released in local comic shops yet.

 

Omega Men #3. His first "full" appearance isn't until #10.

 

X-Men #120. Alpha appears on several pages within the story.

 

That's just off the top of my head.

 

Ok Omega Men 3 is not similar because the character is on the cover.

 

X-men 120 and X-men 121 are not similar to ST 180 and 181. NONE of the Alpha Team members are talking, fighting as team or part of story. In addition, the appearance is just one panel (cameo) of each team member narrated by Vindicator explaining their names. One panel character not talking= classic cameo.

 

For those new, it's similar to the last page of hulk 180 except each character cameo is at the front of the issue and the characters are not talking.

 

 

Edited by catch21
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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted

 

 

i didn't know there was an issue on Gamora's first full appearance. i thought all the while it was Strange Tales 180

If you read both issues, 180 comes off more like a cameo and her name isn't revealed until #181

 

Sorry fellas, I agree with CGC ST 180 is the first appearance Gamora not cameo. She is talking and shown in multiple panels and key part in the current story. No way CGC changes this.

 

reference: similar issue

 

iron man 118

 

There is not much dispute on this one, 180 is first.

 

I agree with the contention that #180 is more of a cameo appearance. Just read them recently, and came away with that perspective.

 

RMA do you know a book that has similar character appearance that was labeled Cameo? when I say similar, I am not talking the last page or where the story refers to a book that wasn't released in local comic shops yet.

 

Omega Men #3. His first "full" appearance isn't until #10.

 

X-Men #120. Alpha appears on several pages within the story.

 

That's just off the top of my head.

 

Ok Omega Men 3 is not similar because the character is on the cover.

 

As I stated before, that makes the argument even BETTER for ST #180 being a cameo, because OM #3 has been called a cameo, even though he appears on the cover. How much LESS, than, a character that does not, and has *about* the same amount of panel appearances?

 

That Lobo appears on the cover makes my argument stronger.

 

X-men 120 and X-men 121 are not similar to ST 180 and 181. NONE of the Alpha Team members are talking, fighting as team or part of story. In addition, the appearance is just one panel (cameo) of each team member narrated by Vindicator explaining their names. One panel character not talking= classic cameo.

 

For those new, it's similar to the last page of hulk 180 except each character cameo is at the front of the issue and the characters are not talking.

 

 

Talking? I'm not aware of any "talking" requirement being part of the cameo definition, but let's consider X-Men #120 more fully. I'm not sure if you've read it, because you've made several mistakes:

 

Alpha Flight appears on the cover. Yes, in shadow, but still on the cover nonetheless.

 

Alpha is not only introduced with a short bio of each character, including a full panel shot of their faces, but they appear in a grand total of 18 panels, over 7 different pages.

 

And, since we're discussing "talking"...Sasquatch, Shaman, Northstar and Aurora ALL have dialogue in the issue.

 

However, it is about as classic a "cameo" appearance as there is. None of the characters actually appear in full costume, full figure, except for Vindicator, who was introduced in #109.

 

Maybe you've forgotten these things, I don't know. But when the characters have their codenames and a small bio on each, as well as multiple partial appearances within the story, as well as dialogue, that's one of the most "classic" cameos in the history of comics, specifically designed by Claremont and Byrne to be intro'd that way.

 

If THAT is a cameo...then yes, ST #180 is a true cameo as well.

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ygogolak

ygogolak

Posted
Posted (edited)

Neither could I.

Yes, CGC has omitted a lot of this information, maybe to protect themselves from a character popping up in a panel somewhere.

Starhawk has a page in #27, but I can't remember if he is called out by name. I don't think he is.

:popcorn:

e394c2e5e17ff678b30b449b45759d3b_zpsc82418d5.jpg

 

Yea, not called out by name, correct? Full page of panels though.

...and it looks like he is made of light... hm

Edited by ygogolak
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Lonzilla

Lonzilla

Posted
Posted

Neither could I.

Yes, CGC has omitted a lot of this information, maybe to protect themselves from a character popping up in a panel somewhere.

Starhawk has a page in #27, but I can't remember if he is called out by name. I don't think he is.

:popcorn:

e394c2e5e17ff678b30b449b45759d3b_zpsc82418d5.jpg

 

Yea, not called out by name, correct? Full page of panels though.

...and it looks like he is made of light... hm

Gamora isn't named until ST 181 (shrug)

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Silverdream

Silverdream

Posted
Posted

Neither could I.

Yes, CGC has omitted a lot of this information, maybe to protect themselves from a character popping up in a panel somewhere.

Starhawk has a page in #27, but I can't remember if he is called out by name. I don't think he is.

:popcorn:

e394c2e5e17ff678b30b449b45759d3b_zpsc82418d5.jpg

 

Yea, not called out by name, correct? Full page of panels though.

...and it looks like he is made of light... hm

 

This is very similar to hulk 180/181. The only real difference is Wolverine appears on one huge panel on the last page. Starhawk is on one page as well, but with more talking, and two tiny panels that show him in costume. Wolverine is named, Starhawk is not. To me that's a wash. It's a cameo ( as we have been calling it in comics )

 

To make it even more similar they both appear in a huge way on the cover of the very next issue.

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Crimebuster

Crimebuster

Posted
Posted

Ultron's first appearance is Avengers #54, not #55, but people insist on calling #54 a cameo and treating it as such because... I guess because he's not named until #55.

 

He spends most of #54 disguised as Crimson Cowl, it's true, so we only see his real face and form in one panel. But he has a major role in the issue, appearing on many pages, with a lot of dialogue.

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Silverdream

Silverdream

Posted
Posted
Ultron's first appearance is Avengers #54, not #55, but people insist on calling #54 a cameo and treating it as such because... I guess because he's not named until #55.

 

He spends most of #54 disguised as Crimson Cowl, it's true, so we only see his real face and form in one panel. But he has a major role in the issue, appearing on many pages, with a lot of dialogue.

 

I'm not sure if you are comparing this to something else or not. The fact Crimson Cowl was in tons of panels and pages makes Avengers 54 quite different than a single page appearance.

 

This is one of the more tricky ones, but I have always leaned on it being 54. Honestly, it was always listed as 54 in most guides including OS from what I recall. What happened? Couple important people had dozens of 55 and no 54's or what?

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HighStakesComics

HighStakesComics

Posted
Posted
Ultron's first appearance is Avengers #54, not #55, but people insist on calling #54 a cameo and treating it as such because... I guess because he's not named until #55.

 

He spends most of #54 disguised as Crimson Cowl, it's true, so we only see his real face and form in one panel. But he has a major role in the issue, appearing on many pages, with a lot of dialogue.

 

I'm not sure if you are comparing this to something else or not. The fact Crimson Cowl was in tons of panels and pages makes Avengers 54 quite different than a single page appearance.

 

This is one of the more tricky ones, but I have always leaned on it being 54. Honestly, it was always listed as 54 in most guides including OS from what I recall. What happened? Couple important people had dozens of 55 and no 54's or what?

 

Calling 54 the first full is a stretch. It is, however, the classic robot reveal duplicated by DC in JLA's battle vs the second Royal Flush Gang!

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HighStakesComics

HighStakesComics

Posted
Posted
Ultron's first appearance is Avengers #54, not #55, but people insist on calling #54 a cameo and treating it as such because... I guess because he's not named until #55.

 

He spends most of #54 disguised as Crimson Cowl, it's true, so we only see his real face and form in one panel. But he has a major role in the issue, appearing on many pages, with a lot of dialogue.

 

I'm not sure if you are comparing this to something else or not. The fact Crimson Cowl was in tons of panels and pages makes Avengers 54 quite different than a single page appearance.

 

This is one of the more tricky ones, but I have always leaned on it being 54. Honestly, it was always listed as 54 in most guides including OS from what I recall. What happened? Couple important people had dozens of 55 and no 54's or what?

 

Calling 54 the first full is a stretch. It is, however, the classic robot reveal duplicated by DC in JLA's battle vs the second Royal Flush Gang!

 

Speaking of the Royal Flush Gang, with all the talk of a JLA movie they might be in play in a few years. JLA #6 is the book to buy there right?

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catch21

catch21

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

 

i didn't know there was an issue on Gamora's first full appearance. i thought all the while it was Strange Tales 180

If you read both issues, 180 comes off more like a cameo and her name isn't revealed until #181

 

Sorry fellas, I agree with CGC ST 180 is the first appearance Gamora not cameo. She is talking and shown in multiple panels and key part in the current story. No way CGC changes this.

 

reference: similar issue

 

iron man 118

 

There is not much dispute on this one, 180 is first.

 

I agree with the contention that #180 is more of a cameo appearance. Just read them recently, and came away with that perspective.

 

RMA do you know a book that has similar character appearance that was labeled Cameo? when I say similar, I am not talking the last page or where the story refers to a book that wasn't released in local comic shops yet.

 

Omega Men #3. His first "full" appearance isn't until #10.

 

X-Men #120. Alpha appears on several pages within the story.

 

That's just off the top of my head.

 

Ok Omega Men 3 is not similar because the character is on the cover.

 

As I stated before, that makes the argument even BETTER for ST #180 being a cameo, because OM #3 has been called a cameo, even though he appears on the cover. How much LESS, than, a character that does not, and has *about* the same amount of panel appearances?

 

That Lobo appears on the cover makes my argument stronger.

 

X-men 120 and X-men 121 are not similar to ST 180 and 181. NONE of the Alpha Team members are talking, fighting as team or part of story. In addition, the appearance is just one panel (cameo) of each team member narrated by Vindicator explaining their names. One panel character not talking= classic cameo.

 

For those new, it's similar to the last page of hulk 180 except each character cameo is at the front of the issue and the characters are not talking.

 

 

Talking? I'm not aware of any "talking" requirement being part of the cameo definition, but let's consider X-Men #120 more fully. I'm not sure if you've read it, because you've made several mistakes:

 

Alpha Flight appears on the cover. Yes, in shadow, but still on the cover nonetheless.

 

Alpha is not only introduced with a short bio of each character, including a full panel shot of their faces, but they appear in a grand total of 18 panels, over 7 different pages.

 

And, since we're discussing "talking"...Sasquatch, Shaman, Northstar and Aurora ALL have dialogue in the issue.

 

However, it is about as classic a "cameo" appearance as there is. None of the characters actually appear in full costume, full figure, except for Vindicator, who was introduced in #109.

 

Maybe you've forgotten these things, I don't know. But when the characters have their codenames and a small bio on each, as well as multiple partial appearances within the story, as well as dialogue, that's one of the most "classic" cameos in the history of comics, specifically designed by Claremont and Byrne to be intro'd that way.

 

If THAT is a cameo...then yes, ST #180 is a true cameo as well.

 

What are you talking about? The full team is not assembled in 120.There are no group shots of them together in the issue. Only Vindicator Shaman (background) and Sasqatch are active in this issue. The Other three are clearly only on page 2.

 

The point was to reference a similar issue to how Gamora ST 180 appearance. Is Gamora talking in 180? YES. So, yes talking does count. Is Gamora on the cover ? NO. Is it a single page appearance? Yes.

 

For example, in Iron man 118 James Rhodes is not on the cover, talks, and has a single page appearance that is less than Gamora's. Is this considered a first appearance? yes, it is.

Edited by catch21
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HighStakesComics

HighStakesComics

Posted
Posted

 

 

i didn't know there was an issue on Gamora's first full appearance. i thought all the while it was Strange Tales 180

If you read both issues, 180 comes off more like a cameo and her name isn't revealed until #181

 

Sorry fellas, I agree with CGC ST 180 is the first appearance Gamora not cameo. She is talking and shown in multiple panels and key part in the current story. No way CGC changes this.

 

reference: similar issue

 

iron man 118

 

There is not much dispute on this one, 180 is first.

 

I agree with the contention that #180 is more of a cameo appearance. Just read them recently, and came away with that perspective.

 

RMA do you know a book that has similar character appearance that was labeled Cameo? when I say similar, I am not talking the last page or where the story refers to a book that wasn't released in local comic shops yet.

 

Omega Men #3. His first "full" appearance isn't until #10.

 

X-Men #120. Alpha appears on several pages within the story.

 

That's just off the top of my head.

 

Ok Omega Men 3 is not similar because the character is on the cover.

 

As I stated before, that makes the argument even BETTER for ST #180 being a cameo, because OM #3 has been called a cameo, even though he appears on the cover. How much LESS, than, a character that does not, and has *about* the same amount of panel appearances?

 

That Lobo appears on the cover makes my argument stronger.

 

X-men 120 and X-men 121 are not similar to ST 180 and 181. NONE of the Alpha Team members are talking, fighting as team or part of story. In addition, the appearance is just one panel (cameo) of each team member narrated by Vindicator explaining their names. One panel character not talking= classic cameo.

 

For those new, it's similar to the last page of hulk 180 except each character cameo is at the front of the issue and the characters are not talking.

 

 

Talking? I'm not aware of any "talking" requirement being part of the cameo definition, but let's consider X-Men #120 more fully. I'm not sure if you've read it, because you've made several mistakes:

 

Alpha Flight appears on the cover. Yes, in shadow, but still on the cover nonetheless.

 

Alpha is not only introduced with a short bio of each character, including a full panel shot of their faces, but they appear in a grand total of 18 panels, over 7 different pages.

 

And, since we're discussing "talking"...Sasquatch, Shaman, Northstar and Aurora ALL have dialogue in the issue.

 

However, it is about as classic a "cameo" appearance as there is. None of the characters actually appear in full costume, full figure, except for Vindicator, who was introduced in #109.

 

Maybe you've forgotten these things, I don't know. But when the characters have their codenames and a small bio on each, as well as multiple partial appearances within the story, as well as dialogue, that's one of the most "classic" cameos in the history of comics, specifically designed by Claremont and Byrne to be intro'd that way.

 

If THAT is a cameo...then yes, ST #180 is a true cameo as well.

 

What are you talking about? The full team is not assembled in 120.There are no group shots of them together in the issue. Only Vindicator Shaman (background) and Sasqatch are active in this issue. The Other three are clearly only on page 2.

 

The point was to reference a similar issue to how Gamora ST 180 appearance. Is Gamora talking in 180? YES. So, yes talking does count. Is Gamora on the cover ? NO. Is it a single page appearance? Yes.

 

For example, in Iron man 118 James Rhodes is not on the cover, talks, and has a single page appearance that is less than Gamora's. Is this considered a first appearance? yes, it is.

 

Wow. This one is close. I think RMA makes a legit point. Someone should have CGC make a call on this.

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted

 

What are you talking about? The full team is not assembled in 120.There are no group shots of them together in the issue. Only Vindicator Shaman (background) and Sasqatch are active in this issue. The Other three are clearly only on page 2.

 

I have to ask...have you read this issue? I'm not trying to be rude, but you're continuing to make errors about the content of this book. There is an entire page which features Northstar and Aurora's interaction with Nightcrawler.

 

hm

 

I am glad, though, that you have recognized that Sasquatch and Shaman are active in this issue.

 

I don't know what the "full team is not assembled" means in the context of this discussion, but the only one of AF who doesn't have an active role in the story is Snowbird. All the others take part in the story.

 

The point was to reference a similar issue to how Gamora ST 180 appearance. Is Gamora talking in 180? YES. So, yes talking does count. Is Gamora on the cover ? NO. Is it a single page appearance? Yes.

 

I understood your point, and I offered examples to address it. That's ok if you don't accept them as valid; that's what dialogue is all about.

 

Again....I have never heard of a "talking" requirement as a determining factor in distinguishing between a cameo and a full appearance. That's not to say it's not possible, I have simply never heard anyone make that claim until now.

 

Wolverine talks on the last page of Hulk #180.

 

I don't know what you mean by "single page appearance" as it relates to Gamora.

 

For example, in Iron man 118 James Rhodes is not on the cover, talks, and has a single page appearance that is less than Gamora's. Is this considered a first appearance? yes, it is.

 

I'm not as familiar with #118 at the moment to discuss it intelligently. I am aware that it is considered his first appearance. However, if he appears less than Gamora, it should be considered a cameo.

 

Whatever the market, as a whole, considers is what is, regardless of any individual arguments (including mine.)

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PeterPark

PeterPark

Posted
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Posted

 

What are you talking about? The full team is not assembled in 120.There are no group shots of them together in the issue. Only Vindicator Shaman (background) and Sasqatch are active in this issue. The Other three are clearly only on page 2.

 

I have to ask...have you read this issue? I'm not trying to be rude, but you're continuing to make errors about the content of this book. There is an entire page which features Northstar and Aurora's interaction with Nightcrawler.

 

hm

 

I am glad, though, that you have recognized that Sasquatch and Shaman are active in this issue.

 

I don't know what the "full team is not assembled" means in the context of this discussion, but the only one of AF who doesn't have an active role in the story is Snowbird. All the others take part in the story.

 

The point was to reference a similar issue to how Gamora ST 180 appearance. Is Gamora talking in 180? YES. So, yes talking does count. Is Gamora on the cover ? NO. Is it a single page appearance? Yes.

 

I understood your point, and I offered examples to address it. That's ok if you don't accept them as valid; that's what dialogue is all about.

 

Again....I have never heard of a "talking" requirement as a determining factor in distinguishing between a cameo and a full appearance. That's not to say it's not possible, I have simply never heard anyone make that claim until now.

 

Wolverine talks on the last page of Hulk #180.

 

I don't know what you mean by "single page appearance" as it relates to Gamora.

 

For example, in Iron man 118 James Rhodes is not on the cover, talks, and has a single page appearance that is less than Gamora's. Is this considered a first appearance? yes, it is.

 

I'm not as familiar with #118 at the moment to discuss it intelligently. I am aware that it is considered his first appearance. However, if he appears less than Gamora, it should be considered a cameo.

 

Whatever the market, as a whole, considers is what is, regardless of any individual arguments (including mine.)

 

I always thought Rhody was flying that helicopter on the cover of 118? :shrug:

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