Bronze age comics that are heating up on eBay... 38 38

[Mike's Rack]

On cameos in general:

 

 

But now, we have this whole discussion about what's a cameo, and what's not, and it all gets very convoluted. The market, as ever, decides what will be.

 

Yes, I agree with this 100%. Some first appearance are not clear cut and it really is what the market decides. Examples include first Psylocke (Captain Britain 8 or NM Annual #2?) Havok ( Xmen 54 first Alex Summers or Xmen 58 First Havok in costume).

 

 

It really has gotten bad the last two years. Personally I think its due to a new influx of collectors the past two years. A lot of long time collectors are scratching their/our heads on some of these books.

I think there are a lot of speculators muddying the waters to draw attention to books they bought in bulk.

[*Bronze age fan*]

I think you are drastically underestimating the influence CGC has on the market. People do not have to buy into CGC to pay attention to what they are doing with certain books.

 

There are 2,704,568 currently for sale on eBay in the section titled "comics."

 

Of those listings, 64,061 have CGC in the title, which includes PGX books, "CGC it!" and the like.

 

So, 2.4% of the listings are "CGC related."

 

The other 97.6% of the listings in comics have no direct link to CGC.

 

I think it's safe to say that the vast majority of the comic collecting world doesn't really care about CGC.

 

Just for comparison's sake: 120,827 of the listings have "Batman" in the title.

 

Nearly twice as many listings have to do with one character, than all the listings that have CGC in the title combined.

 

 

Using my collection as an example. I have probably over 20K comic books. I have just over 100 of those comics in CGC holders. Slabbed comics take up way more room.

[HighStakesComics]

On cameos in general:

 

 

But now, we have this whole discussion about what's a cameo, and what's not, and it all gets very convoluted. The market, as ever, decides what will be.

 

Yes, I agree with this 100%. Some first appearance are not clear cut and it really is what the market decides. Examples include first Psylocke (Captain Britain 8 or NM Annual #2?) Havok ( Xmen 54 first Alex Summers or Xmen 58 First Havok in costume).

 

 

It really has gotten bad the last two years. Personally I think its due to a new influx of collectors the past two years. A lot of long time collectors are scratching their/our heads on some of these books.

I think there are a lot of speculators muddying the waters to draw attention to books they bought in bulk.

 

[oakman29]

I think you are drastically underestimating the influence CGC has on the market. People do not have to buy into CGC to pay attention to what they are doing with certain books.

 

There are 2,704,568 currently for sale on eBay in the section titled "comics."

 

Of those listings, 64,061 have CGC in the title, which includes PGX books, "CGC it!" and the like.

 

So, 2.4% of the listings are "CGC related."

 

The other 97.6% of the listings in comics have no direct link to CGC.

 

I think it's safe to say that the vast majority of the comic collecting world doesn't really care about CGC.

 

Just for comparison's sake: 120,827 of the listings have "Batman" in the title.

 

Nearly twice as many listings have to do with one character, than all the listings that have CGC in the title combined.

 

 

Using my collection as an example. I have probably over 20K comic books. I have just over 100 of those comics in CGC holders. Slabbed comics take up way more room.

Same for me Frank.I have 73 CGC slabs,but 15K or so(or so ) is raw.

[catch21]

 

What are you talking about? The full team is not assembled in 120.There are no group shots of them together in the issue. Only Vindicator Shaman (background) and Sasqatch are active in this issue. The Other three are clearly only on page 2.

 

I have to ask...have you read this issue? I'm not trying to be rude, but you're continuing to make errors about the content of this book. There is an entire page which features Northstar and Aurora's interaction with Nightcrawler.

 

 

I am glad, though, that you have recognized that Sasquatch and Shaman are active in this issue.

 

I don't know what the "full team is not assembled" means in the context of this discussion, but the only one of AF who doesn't have an active role in the story is Snowbird. All the others take part in the story.

 

The point was to reference a similar issue to how Gamora ST 180 appearance. Is Gamora talking in 180? YES. So, yes talking does count. Is Gamora on the cover ? NO. Is it a single page appearance? Yes.

 

I understood your point, and I offered examples to address it. That's ok if you don't accept them as valid; that's what dialogue is all about.

 

Again....I have never heard of a "talking" requirement as a determining factor in distinguishing between a cameo and a full appearance. That's not to say it's not possible, I have simply never heard anyone make that claim until now.

 

Wolverine talks on the last page of Hulk #180.

 

I don't know what you mean by "single page appearance" as it relates to Gamora.

 

For example, in Iron man 118 James Rhodes is not on the cover, talks, and has a single page appearance that is less than Gamora's. Is this considered a first appearance? yes, it is.

 

I'm not as familiar with #118 at the moment to discuss it intelligently. I am aware that it is considered his first appearance. However, if he appears less than Gamora, it should be considered a cameo.

 

Whatever the market, as a whole, considers is what is, regardless of any individual arguments (including mine.)

 

I don't how you quote me and still misread what I type? I am asking for a reference issue that has exact same type first or cameo as Gamora. I did read the book yesterday. I even gave you the exact page number. Northstar and Augora don't clearly appear while taking out Nightcrawler on page 17. The panel is a fist that knocks him out and two pairs of legs. I do respect your honesty on Iron man 118.

 

[catch21]

Iron Man #118, Jim Rhodes panels on last page....

 

This is false. It's on page 5 of 18.

[catch21]

On cameos in general:

 

 

But now, we have this whole discussion about what's a cameo, and what's not, and it all gets very convoluted. The market, as ever, decides what will be.

 

Yes, I agree with this 100%. Some first appearance are not clear cut and it really is what the market decides. Examples include first Psylocke (Captain Britain 8 or NM Annual #2?) Havok ( Xmen 54 first Alex Summers or Xmen 58 First Havok in costume).

 

 

It really has gotten bad the last two years. Personally I think its due to a new influx of collectors the past two years. A lot of long time collectors are scratching their/our heads on some of these books.

I think there are a lot of speculators muddying the waters to draw attention to books they bought in bulk.

 

I agree. It's really obvious.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I don't how you quote me and still misread what I type? I am asking for a reference issue that has exact same type first or cameo as Gamora. I did read the book yesterday. I even gave you the exact page number. Northstar and Augora don't clearly appear while taking out Nightcrawler on page 17. The panel is a fist that knocks him out and two pairs of legs. I do respect your honesty on Iron man 118.

 

I see.

 

We have gone from:

 

X-men 120 and X-men 121 are not similar to ST 180 and 181. NONE of the Alpha Team members are talking, fighting as team or part of story. In addition, the appearance is just one panel (cameo) of each team member narrated by Vindicator explaining their names.

 

to:

 

The full team is not assembled in 120.There are no group shots of them together in the issue. Only Vindicator Shaman (background) and Sasqatch are active in this issue. The Other three are clearly only on page 2.

 

to:

 

Northstar and Augora don't clearly appear while taking out Nightcrawler on page 17. The panel is a fist that knocks him out and two pairs of legs.

 

So, in the span of those three posts, by you, you went from "NONE of the Alpha Flight team members are talking (which isn't true), fighting as a team (also not true), or part of story (also not true), the appearance is just one panel of each team member (also not true), and they only "clearly" appear on page 2 (also not true), to "ok, but only Shaman and Sasquatch are active in the issue (also not true), to "ok but Northstar and Aurora don't clearly appear (also not true...their costumes make it blatantly obvious as to precisely who they are.)"

 

And you ask how others "misread what you type"...?

 

 

I think the real answer is that you didn't know what you meant, because you hadn't closely paid attention to the issue, and were caught making things up you didn't know about.

 

You still haven't answered any of my concerns, like "why is talking so important in determining what is, and is not, a cameo appearance" and what does a "single page appearance" mean as it relates to Gamora.

 

You're never going to find "the exact same type of cameo" as Gamora, because every single comic book is unique. You can only find examples that are similar.

 

I gave you the benefit of the doubt not once, but twice. You can't just make stuff up without doing proper research and not expect someone to call you on it.

 

It's nothing personal, but this is the big leagues,. You need to know your stuff around here. By all means, if anyone else reads what you wrote differently from what I'm reading, I'd be happy to listen to their explanation as to how.

 

I am glad to know you respect my honesty, however.

 

 

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

You still haven't answered any of my concerns, like "why is talking so important in determining what is, and is not, a cameo appearance"

 

If we establish this as one of the criteria for a first appearance, then we're still waiting on Black Bolt's first "full" appearance*. That book is going to be huge!

 

 

 

*first full comic appearance; he speaks a work in the Inhumans graphic novel in the '80s

[Lazyboy]

What CGC labels books matter to many people who do not buy CGC books, but buy raw copies. I think you are drastically underestimating the influence CGC has on the market. People do not have to buy into CGC to pay attention to what they are doing with certain books.

 

The main point people are missing when thinking that CGC issue notes have a major influence on the market is that there usually aren't many CGC graded copies available for books that aren't/weren't already established as keys.

 

The general steps for hot books are as follows:

1. Market somehow decides which book is important for under-appreciated/totally ignored character now (or potentially) being used in other media

2. Prices rise

3. Prices rise more and draw serious attention

4. Flood of copies sent to CGC

5. Prices rise more

6. CGC graded copies start returning and being sold

7. CGC graded copy sells for ridiculous amount

8. Bigger flood of copies sent to CGC

 

By the time the CGC issue notes can really have any influence, the market has already decided on the book and value.

 

 

[HighStakesComics]

I don't how you quote me and still misread what I type? I am asking for a reference issue that has exact same type first or cameo as Gamora. I did read the book yesterday. I even gave you the exact page number. Northstar and Augora don't clearly appear while taking out Nightcrawler on page 17. The panel is a fist that knocks him out and two pairs of legs. I do respect your honesty on Iron man 118.

 

I see.

 

We have gone from:

 

X-men 120 and X-men 121 are not similar to ST 180 and 181. NONE of the Alpha Team members are talking, fighting as team or part of story. In addition, the appearance is just one panel (cameo) of each team member narrated by Vindicator explaining their names.

 

to:

 

The full team is not assembled in 120.There are no group shots of them together in the issue. Only Vindicator Shaman (background) and Sasqatch are active in this issue. The Other three are clearly only on page 2.

 

to:

 

Northstar and Augora don't clearly appear while taking out Nightcrawler on page 17. The panel is a fist that knocks him out and two pairs of legs.

 

So, in the span of those three posts, by you, you went from "NONE of the Alpha Flight team members are talking (which isn't true), fighting as a team (also not true), or part of story (also not true), the appearance is just one panel of each team member (also not true), and they only "clearly" appear on page 2 (also not true), to "ok, but only Shaman and Sasquatch are active in the issue (also not true), to "ok but Northstar and Aurora don't clearly appear (also not true...their costumes make it blatantly obvious as to precisely who they are.)"

 

And you ask how others "misread what you type"...?

 

 

I think the real answer is that you didn't know what you meant, because you hadn't closely paid attention to the issue, and were caught making things up you didn't know about.

 

You still haven't answered any of my concerns, like "why is talking so important in determining what is, and is not, a cameo appearance" and what does a "single page appearance" mean as it relates to Gamora.

 

You're never going to find "the exact same type of cameo" as Gamora, because every single comic book is unique. You can only find examples that are similar.

 

I gave you the benefit of the doubt not once, but twice. You can't just make stuff up without doing proper research and not expect someone to call you on it.

 

It's nothing personal, but this is the big leagues,. You need to know your stuff around here. By all means, if anyone else reads what you wrote differently from what I'm reading, I'd be happy to listen to their explanation as to how.

 

I am glad to know you respect my honesty, however.

 

 

I love the analysis on Asm 298-300, RMA. Bottom line. Does Gamora play a bigger role in #180 than Venom in #299? If not, no matter how many copies of ST 180 anyone here is hoarding, this would throw into doubt that 180 is the unquestioned first full appearance. I sold my only copy a few months back. If someone could post up the panels that would be great!

[Inhuman Fiend]

Interesting discussion on 1st appearances, but what Bronze comics are heating up on eBay???!!!

[ygogolak]

Interesting discussion on 1st appearances, but what Bronze comics are heating up on eBay???!!!

 

Here you go: http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7939973&fpart=1

[Hekla]

Shazam 1 is hot. Full disclosure, one of these was my auction.

 

http://m.ebay.com/itm/361000762724?nav=SEARCH

 

http://m.ebay.com/itm/111413070756?nav=SEARCH

 

http://m.ebay.com/itm/231298891212?nav=SEARCH

[HighStakesComics]

Add Firestorm #1 and Nova #1 to the list. If you sell on ebay and want to steer traffic to all of your other books, throw up a mid grade ASM #194 for <$100. You will get 60-80 views and 10 watchers within 24 hours.

[revat]

On cameos in general:

 

 

But now, we have this whole discussion about what's a cameo, and what's not, and it all gets very convoluted. The market, as ever, decides what will be.

 

Yes, I agree with this 100%. Some first appearance are not clear cut and it really is what the market decides. Examples include first Psylocke (Captain Britain 8 or NM Annual #2?) Havok ( Xmen 54 first Alex Summers or Xmen 58 First Havok in costume).

 

 

It really has gotten bad the last two years. Personally I think its due to a new influx of collectors the past two years. A lot of long time collectors are scratching their/our heads on some of these books.

 

First Psylocke is more a combo of NM Ann 2 and UXM 256 while CB 8 is unequivocally the first Betsy Braddock (thumbs u

 

:spoiler: the 1st Betsy Braddock is the best of them, by far...~$300 or so in NM

 

I agree with this. You can and should delineate the 1st appearance of a person from a given hero/villain identity of a person if it makes sense.

[catch21]

 

 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2014 by catch21

[HighStakesComics]

Man that's close. I'm not sure that passes the 299 test, but I'm not sure that's a cameo either. I'd say that Iron Man 118 clearly has no business being a full appearance. Like RMA said, if that 299 weren't sandwiched between two monsters that might be considered a full appearance. Disputing the might of ASM 300 would be a fools errand though. If I had to make a call Id reluctantly say yes, that ST 180 probably qualifies as the first full.

[catch21]

Man that's close. I'm not sure that passes the 299 test, but I'm not sure that's a cameo either. I'd say that Iron Man 118 clearly has no business being a full appearance. Like RMA said, if that 299 weren't sandwiched between two monsters that might be considered a full appearance. Disputing the might of ASM 300 would be a fools errand though. If I had to make a call Id reluctantly say yes, that ST 180 probably qualifies as the first full.

 

Exactly, it's people hoarding 181 I disagree with.

Edited August 14, 2014 by catch21

[akaSteveRogers]

Iron Man #118, Jim Rhodes panels on last page....

 

This is false. It's on page 5 of 18.

 

oops...you're right, its not on the last page. But the point was these are the only panels. Doesnt change that important fact. Being on the last page or page 5 or page 12 really doesnt affect the point.

 

But thanks for correcting that.