Copper's Heating/Selling Well on Ebay 33 33

[Aweandlorder]

I'll tell ya which bubble definitely burst..

 

 

 

Like.. decades ago

[RockMyAmadeus]

Don't ruin it. It's fun to learn about broke college students and their ebay spending habits in the 1990's. Fascinating even...

 

Newbs.

 

 

This place is so full of love and jovial goodwill.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

I'll tell ya which bubble definitely burst..

 

 

 

Like.. decades ago

 

Gasp!

 

*sob*

[RockMyAmadeus]

Did everyone in this thread take a hit off of Carbonaro's pipe...?

 

post more of your hoard of books

 

I had a bunch of TTT #44 in my hand today, and Joel Elad threatened to take pics...

 

I ran away.

[thecopperagekids]

ASM 238 was not $10 in grade. That was a fast seller at $30.

 

ASM 252 was closer to $8-15 in grade.

 

The rest I agree on.

 

Tell me what "in grade" meant on eBay in 1999......

 

 

I bought 10 copies of Spidey #252 in the spring of 1999...all NM...2-3 9.8s out of the batch since then...$30 shipped.

 

 

 

Raw NM.As in plain old NM 9.4, some were potential 9.6's.....no 9.8 candidates.

 

I sold this book around a dozen times in that period,ranging from $25 to $50.Most of the sales I had of that book in NM were in the $30-$40 range.That is pretty much what ASM 252 sold for in that time period, in unslabbed NM. I'm sure that Overstreet market reports would confirm similar sales.

 

I am not talking about getting lucky with one lot on ebay , of 10 copies.

 

I am talking about selling this book individually, either off my wall (presented nicely in a Mylar/full back) at shows or on ebay with high res front+back cover scans.

 

Not a lone outlier sale of 10 copies thrown in a a lot on ebay for 430 shipped.

 

Did the seller provide high res scans of the front and back covers of all 10 copies?...Highly doubt it.

Was the auction a BIN that you were lucky enough to click on before someone else?.......I'd think so.

 

When anaylyzing price points, you have to rely on average sales.Certainly not lucky buys off of capitalizing on an insufficiently_thoughtful_person dealer overstock lot.

 

You did not buy this book from 10 seperate dealers, at a price which averaged $3 a book.Even then, shipping would have to be free.Sorry but your assessment of his book commonly trading for $3 in 1999 is woefully inaccurate.Stating that you bought 10 copies of this book in a lot only reinforces my point.

 

I'm not trying to be a but come on man.I posted up plenty to back what I said and you came back with this lone outlier sale of 10 copies in a lot for $30....highlighted by an emoticon, no less.

 

I'm trying to promote intelligent discussion on a particular facet of our hobby, which is good for all parties involved.Posting up one liner non-sequitors tinged with emoticons hardly wins points.

 

Back to the odds of captalizing on an outlier sale of a poorly or otherwise mispresented listing on ebay....

 

For comparison sake, a little over a year ago I happened on an ebay seller who lists dealer overstock.He had a lot of 10 copies of Suicide Squad # 1 (the 1st 80's series) for $10, plus priority shipping , via buy it now.

 

I caught it just as it was listed and bought the lot immediately.I now have 10 copies (all of which are newsstand edition).

 

I bet I get a least four 9.8's out of that stack, when I get around to sending them in.They are sitting on the top of my bookshelf, waiting to be graded.This was back when CGC 9.8's were selling at $75-$100 for the book in 9.8.....but newsstand with a black cover? I'd call that a $200 book now.BUt I digress....

 

Now does this mean that back when I bought this lot (12-14 couple months ago) that Suicide Squad 1 was selling for $1 in raw NM (or better)?

 

'EFF NO....it does not.

 

A year ago, raw NM copies were going for around $25.I can tell you that because I have been tracking the sales of that book on ebay and what dealers have it listed at, when i am at conventions.I also have casually asked convention dealers what they get for that book.As I do with any book which interests me, which is key in having a better understanding of being to accurately gauge market value.

 

First hand, I sold 2 raw NM-ish direct edition copies at shows.......Ron Bruce's 2014 Asbury Park show I sold a raw VF/NM for $25 and at his White Plains 2014 show I sold a NM-ish for $30 or $35.I have sold copies of that book in VG to FN+ at least 5 times, out of my $10 boxes, over the past year and a half.

 

All that means is that if you look hard enough and happen to get very lucky to boot, you can find someone on ebay who doesn't know what they have (or does not care) and buy it for peanuts due to human negligence and lack of insight on the most basic of marketing approaches.And yeah, ASM 252 was a key book back in 1999 and putting 10 copies of a key book is far from the norm, when the book had to guide for at least $20 a piece in NM- back in 1999.

 

I don't know what the Overstreet Guide had the book listed at in 1999 but I am guessing it is at around $25 which would be a far cry from your report of $3.

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

You said you were selling a dead book...NM #98...for $25 to $50...in 2000.

 

That alone pretty much puts a dagger through the rest of your arguments.

 

:shrug:

[Lazyboy]

I would imagine we could use old Overstreet market reports as well to zero in on pricing if someone really wanted too.

 

Yes, that would work as a means of irrefutable data, for the sake of proving one's points.

 

I would do that, but my memory of that time period is pretty good and I remember what I sold my books for back then.My sales were not on the high end of the bell curve, either.I didn't price gouge hot books.At least not excessive, anyway as I knew it would come back and bite me hard, in the long run.

 

At the very least, I've got the ball rolling and I'm always interested in participating in thoughtful discussion on our hobby and the shifting marketplace......I think it's fun.

 

I've laid down what I sold the books for so I'm throwing the gauntlet down for someone else to challenge with Overstreet reports or their own anecdotes, as long as they back them with more than one line assertions that everything could be had for $5.

 

 

Overstreet had ceased publication of anything except the annual book with regards to "modern" (there was no such thing as "Copper" during this time period) back in 1995-ish.

 

In the 1999 OPG, New Mutants #98 is listed for $4.

 

In the 2000 OPG, New Mutants #98 was merged back IN with the rest of the books from #93-100, all listed for $4.

 

And the OPG had effectively ceased to be a reliable price guide by the early 90's. Very, very few books sold for "guide price" during this time period.

 

$25-$50 for VF to NM copies....?

 

Yeah, that's completely ridiculous. I could see a small bump in 1997/8 because of Deadpool's ongoing series, but I bought a NM NM 86-100 set from a LCS sometime around 2000-2002 (not sure exactly when, it was shortly before I started to keep better track of my purchases) for $20. Not to mention more copies of NM 98 for $1-5 each until 2008.

[rjrjr]

You said you were selling a dead book...NM #98...for $25 to $50...in 2000.

 

That alone pretty much puts a dagger through the rest of your arguments.

 

:shrug:

 

RMA, you wrote:

 

Imagine: any copper book, all of them, for $5 or less. Every. Single. One.

 

We know that was not the case either. Does that put a dagger through your arguments as well?

 

You both got some data wrong. Picking on one data point from either's arguments seems... counterproductive.

 

 

Edited January 26, 2015 by rjrjr

[500Club]

Y

I would imagine we could use old Overstreet market reports as well to zero in on pricing if someone really wanted too.

 

Yes, that would work as a means of irrefutable data, for the sake of proving one's points.

 

I would do that, but my memory of that time period is pretty good and I remember what I sold my books for back then.My sales were not on the high end of the bell curve, either.I didn't price gouge hot books.At least not excessive, anyway as I knew it would come back and bite me hard, in the long run.

 

At the very least, I've got the ball rolling and I'm always interested in participating in thoughtful discussion on our hobby and the shifting marketplace......I think it's fun.

 

I've laid down what I sold the books for so I'm throwing the gauntlet down for someone else to challenge with Overstreet reports or their own anecdotes, as long as they back them with more than one line assertions that everything could be had for $5.

 

 

Overstreet had ceased publication of anything except the annual book with regards to "modern" (there was no such thing as "Copper" during this time period) back in 1995-ish.

 

In the 1999 OPG, New Mutants #98 is listed for $4.

 

In the 2000 OPG, New Mutants #98 was merged back IN with the rest of the books from #93-100, all listed for $4.

 

And the OPG had effectively ceased to be a reliable price guide by the early 90's. Very, very few books sold for "guide price" during this time period.

 

$25-$50 for VF to NM copies....?

 

Yeah, that's completely ridiculous. I could see a small bump in 1997/8 because of Deadpool's ongoing series, but I bought a NM NM 86-100 set from a LCS sometime around 2000-2002 (not sure exactly when, it was shortly before I started to keep better track of my purchases) for $20. Not to mention more copies of NM 98 for $1-5 each until 2008.

There was a seller out of Toronto, 'Dragon Lady Comics', or some such thing, that listed an NM 97-100 lot weekly in the early 2000s. I bought multiple lots for $10-$15.

[Jimmy Linguini]

Y

I would imagine we could use old Overstreet market reports as well to zero in on pricing if someone really wanted too.

 

Yes, that would work as a means of irrefutable data, for the sake of proving one's points.

 

I would do that, but my memory of that time period is pretty good and I remember what I sold my books for back then.My sales were not on the high end of the bell curve, either.I didn't price gouge hot books.At least not excessive, anyway as I knew it would come back and bite me hard, in the long run.

 

At the very least, I've got the ball rolling and I'm always interested in participating in thoughtful discussion on our hobby and the shifting marketplace......I think it's fun.

 

I've laid down what I sold the books for so I'm throwing the gauntlet down for someone else to challenge with Overstreet reports or their own anecdotes, as long as they back them with more than one line assertions that everything could be had for $5.

 

 

Overstreet had ceased publication of anything except the annual book with regards to "modern" (there was no such thing as "Copper" during this time period) back in 1995-ish.

 

In the 1999 OPG, New Mutants #98 is listed for $4.

 

In the 2000 OPG, New Mutants #98 was merged back IN with the rest of the books from #93-100, all listed for $4.

 

And the OPG had effectively ceased to be a reliable price guide by the early 90's. Very, very few books sold for "guide price" during this time period.

 

$25-$50 for VF to NM copies....?

 

Yeah, that's completely ridiculous. I could see a small bump in 1997/8 because of Deadpool's ongoing series, but I bought a NM NM 86-100 set from a LCS sometime around 2000-2002 (not sure exactly when, it was shortly before I started to keep better track of my purchases) for $20. Not to mention more copies of NM 98 for $1-5 each until 2008.

There was a seller out of Toronto, 'Dragon Lady Comics', or some such thing, that listed an NM 97-100 lot weekly in the early 2000s. I bought multiple lots for $10-$15.

 

He is at a flea market in St. Jacobs, Kitchener. apparently every week he has a new copy.

Edited January 26, 2015 by Jimmy Linguini

[Lazyboy]

For comparison sake, a little over a year ago I happened on an ebay seller who lists dealer overstock.He had a lot of 10 copies of Suicide Squad # 1 (the 1st 80's series) for $10, plus priority shipping , via buy it now.

 

I caught it just as it was listed and bought the lot immediately.I now have 10 copies (all of which are newsstand edition).

 

I bet I get a least four 9.8's out of that stack, when I get around to sending them in.They are sitting on the top of my bookshelf, waiting to be graded.This was back when CGC 9.8's were selling at $75-$100 for the book in 9.8.....but newsstand with a black cover? I'd call that a $200 book now.BUt I digress....

 

Now does this mean that back when I bought this lot (12-14 couple months ago) that Suicide Squad 1 was selling for $1 in raw NM (or better)?

 

'EFF NO....it does not.

 

A year ago, raw NM copies were going for around $25.

Really? Can anyone confirm this? The timeline seems... off. Didn't (1980s) Suicide Squad just start getting attention a few months ago?

[RockMyAmadeus]

ASM 238 was not $10 in grade. That was a fast seller at $30.

 

ASM 252 was closer to $8-15 in grade.

 

The rest I agree on.

 

Tell me what "in grade" meant on eBay in 1999......

 

 

I bought 10 copies of Spidey #252 in the spring of 1999...all NM...2-3 9.8s out of the batch since then...$30 shipped.

 

 

 

Raw NM.As in plain old NM 9.4, some were potential 9.6's.....no 9.8 candidates.

 

I was asking Boboset, and it was a rhetorical question. On eBay, especially in the era right before CGC, grading was as wild as it ever got, because people were selling their own stuff to each other, average people who didn't know how to grade, and selling to people for whom grading mostly didn't matter.

 

Though the nomenclature of "9.4" and other grades existed, hardly anyone used them.

 

I sold this book around a dozen times in that period,ranging from $25 to $50.Most of the sales I had of that book in NM were in the $30-$40 range.That is pretty much what ASM 252 sold for in that time period, in unslabbed NM. I'm sure that Overstreet market reports would confirm similar sales.

 

OPG in 1997 for ASM #252: $35. 1999: $20. 2000: $25.

 

As you can see, prices in OPG were all over the place. However...in this period the eBay market (and this is an eBay thread, after all) completely ignored the OPG. If you managed to get those prices on the convention circuit, that's great....but that's not what the discussion is about.

 

I am not talking about getting lucky with one lot on ebay , of 10 copies.

 

That was but one example. I didn't "get lucky." It was an auction, which ran for the full 7 days, which I won.

 

I am talking about selling this book individually, either off my wall (presented nicely in a Mylar/full back) at shows or on ebay with high res front+back cover scans.

 

Not a lone outlier sale of 10 copies thrown in a a lot on ebay for 430 shipped.

 

How do you know it was an outlier sale? Were you regularly buying on eBay at this time?

 

Did the seller provide high res scans of the front and back covers of all 10 copies?...Highly doubt it.

 

It was eBay in 1999. NO ONE had scans of ANYTHING, much less "high res scans of the front and back covers of all 10 copies." You were lucky to get ANY picture for a listing. Since this was typical, it was not a mitigating factor.

 

You need to keep these things in proper perspective.

 

Was the auction a BIN that you were lucky enough to click on before someone else?.......I'd think so.

 

You would be incorrect. BINs did not exist on eBay in 1999. As well, a "lucky BIN" would make a terrible example to support my argument. I'm dumb, but I'm not THAT dumb. Maybe.

 

 

When anaylyzing price points, you have to rely on average sales.Certainly not lucky buys off of capitalizing on an insufficiently_thoughtful_person dealer overstock lot.

 

You have made an assumption, an assumption that is false, and are now drawing conclusions based on that false assumption. That should go without saying that that's not how proper debate works, no...?

 

You did not buy this book from 10 seperate dealers, at a price which averaged $3 a book.Even then, shipping would have to be free.Sorry but your assessment of his book commonly trading for $3 in 1999 is woefully inaccurate.Stating that you bought 10 copies of this book in a lot only reinforces my point.

 

Poor form, man, poor form. Obviously, shipping isn't included for individual copies. Come on. That was AN example. And it is not the ONLY example. Not including shipping, yes, you could buy SINGLE copies of Spidey #252 for $3 or so on eBay in 1999. 9.8 copies? Probably not, but in 1999, no one really knew what "9.8" meant.

 

You must keep things in perspective.

 

In 1999, on eBay, people weren't as concerned about grading, especially for modern books like Spidey #252, as they would become. You must remember that CGC did not yet exist, and wouldn't make a significant impact on the Copper/Modern market for another 6-8 YEARS.

 

YES, I did, indeed, buy OTHER copies of Spidey #252 (not including shipping) for $3, $4, $5 on eBay, on multiple occasions.

 

I'm not trying to be a but come on man.I posted up plenty to back what I said and you came back with this lone outlier sale of 10 copies in a lot for $30....highlighted by an emoticon, no less.

 

You posted plenty to back what you said...? Where?

 

I posted receipts of actual sales I made on eBay, with eBay listing numbers (numbers that could, for a fee, be accessed in eBay's archives.) "Lone outlier sale"....? I wasn't responding to you, and it wasn't meant to be an exhaustive post (unlike this one, in more ways than one. )

 

I don't think you understood what that emoticon meant...

 

I'm trying to promote intelligent discussion on a particular facet of our hobby, which is good for all parties involved.Posting up one liner non-sequitors tinged with emoticons hardly wins points.

 

You are confused, both as to what a non-sequitor is, and to whom I was responding.

 

Back to the odds of captalizing on an outlier sale of a poorly or otherwise mispresented listing on ebay....

 

You are presuming. You do not know, but have now constructed an entire scenario (that never existed) against which you are now arguing. That is a straw man argument, and it is a logical fallacy.

 

Hard to have intelligent discussions if you resort to logical fallacies.

For comparison sake, a little over a year ago I happened on an ebay seller who lists dealer overstock.He had a lot of 10 copies of Suicide Squad # 1 (the 1st 80's series) for $10, plus priority shipping , via buy it now.

 

I caught it just as it was listed and bought the lot immediately.I now have 10 copies (all of which are newsstand edition).

 

I bet I get a least four 9.8's out of that stack, when I get around to sending them in.They are sitting on the top of my bookshelf, waiting to be graded.This was back when CGC 9.8's were selling at $75-$100 for the book in 9.8.....but newsstand with a black cover? I'd call that a $200 book now.BUt I digress....

 

Now does this mean that back when I bought this lot (12-14 couple months ago) that Suicide Squad 1 was selling for $1 in raw NM (or better)?

 

'EFF NO....it does not.

 

Your scenario has nothing whatsoever to do with mine. I'll repeat: BINs did not exist in 1999. You have come to a conclusion you CANNOT MAKE, based on a presumption about a situation that DID NOT EXIST in 1999.

 

This is bad debate.

 

A year ago, raw NM copies were going for around $25.I can tell you that because I have been tracking the sales of that book on ebay and what dealers have it listed at, when i am at conventions.I also have casually asked convention dealers what they get for that book.As I do with any book which interests me, which is key in having a better understanding of being to accurately gauge market value.

 

First hand, I sold 2 raw NM-ish direct edition copies at shows.......Ron Bruce's 2014 Asbury Park show I sold a raw VF/NM for $25 and at his White Plains 2014 show I sold a NM-ish for $30 or $35.I have sold copies of that book in VG to FN+ at least 5 times, out of my $10 boxes, over the past year and a half.

 

All that means is that if you look hard enough and happen to get very lucky to boot, you can find someone on ebay who doesn't know what they have (or does not care) and buy it for peanuts due to human negligence and lack of insight on the most basic of marketing approaches.And yeah, ASM 252 was a key book back in 1999 and putting 10 copies of a key book is far from the norm, when the book had to guide for at least $20 a piece in NM- back in 1999.

 

I don't know what the Overstreet Guide had the book listed at in 1999 but I am guessing it is at around $25 which would be a far cry from your report of $3.

 

 

Like I said...your entire counter-argument rests on a false assumption, and necessarily fails as a result.

 

Sorry.

[RockMyAmadeus]

There was a seller out of Toronto, 'Dragon Lady Comics', or some such thing, that listed an NM 97-100 lot weekly in the early 2000s. I bought multiple lots for $10-$15.

 

I remember Dragon Lady Comics!

[500Club]

There was a seller out of Toronto, 'Dragon Lady Comics', or some such thing, that listed an NM 97-100 lot weekly in the early 2000s. I bought multiple lots for $10-$15.

 

I remember Dragon Lady Comics!

And I remember Lange's! That Livonia collection was sweet! And these guys could grade. I'd bet more than one of us bought their '9.2' s and got 9.8s.

 

And, yeah, your broad brush stroke thesis that copper was cheap from 1996 to the early 2000's (and, in many cases, beyond) is dead on. (thumbs u

 

We can debate whether book X sold for $10 or $15 in 2000, but the underlying statement that copper books were cheap is dead on. I just wish I'd bought a Turtles 1 like you did.

[RockMyAmadeus]

You said you were selling a dead book...NM #98...for $25 to $50...in 2000.

 

That alone pretty much puts a dagger through the rest of your arguments.

 

:shrug:

 

RMA, you wrote:

 

Imagine: any copper book, all of them, for $5 or less. Every. Single. One.

 

We know that was not the case either. Does that put a dagger through your arguments as well?

 

You both got some data wrong. Picking on one data point from either's arguments seems... counterproductive.

 

 

No, not at all. My original post, which you didn't quote in its entirety, was hyperbole to make a broader point (made clear by the fact that I "contradicted" that statement myself in that post), and CAK's post was a serious response using a literal example, meant to be taken literally.

 

Pretty basic.

 

I'd be happy to expand upon this, if you're interested.

[RockMyAmadeus]

There was a seller out of Toronto, 'Dragon Lady Comics', or some such thing, that listed an NM 97-100 lot weekly in the early 2000s. I bought multiple lots for $10-$15.

 

I remember Dragon Lady Comics!

And I remember Lange's! That Livonia collection was sweet! And these guys could grade. I'd bet more than one of us bought their '9.2' s and got 9.8s.

 

And, yeah, your broad brush stroke thesis that copper was cheap from 1996 to the early 2000's (and, in many cases, beyond) is dead on. (thumbs u

 

We can debate whether book X sold for $10 or $15 in 2000, but the underlying statement that copper books were cheap is dead on. I just wish I'd bought a Turtles 1 like you did.

 

[Bosco685]

Really? Can anyone confirm this? The timeline seems... off. Didn't (1980s) Suicide Squad just start getting attention a few months ago?

 

September 2014, actually.

 

WB Wants 'Fury' Director For ‘Suicide Squad’ Movie

 

This news hit, and folks started going back to a set that a few of us had mentioned here was something to consider.

 

I posted this about the Legends 1-6 set

 

I missed out on this series. But I did like when Shazam appeared in Legends #1-6. A few 1st and relaunches in that one.

 

#1: 1st Amanda Waller; 1st post-Crisis appearance of Captain Marvel.

#3: 1st Copper Age appearance of The Suicide Squad.

#6: 1st post-Crisis Wonder Woman outside own title; 1st new Justice League.

 

This was because a few of us were discussing the August 2014 'Shazam' news.

 

Then, one well-informed individual with all the best intentions posted 'Who cares about Legends 1-6?'

 

 

The market does, of course. Especially 1 and 3.

[darkstar]

 

For comparison sake, a little over a year ago I happened on an ebay seller who lists dealer overstock.He had a lot of 10 copies of Suicide Squad # 1 (the 1st 80's series) for $10, plus priority shipping , via buy it now.

 

I caught it just as it was listed and bought the lot immediately.I now have 10 copies (all of which are newsstand edition).

 

I bet I get a least four 9.8's out of that stack, when I get around to sending them in.They are sitting on the top of my bookshelf, waiting to be graded.This was back when CGC 9.8's were selling at $75-$100 for the book in 9.8.....but newsstand with a black cover? I'd call that a $200 book now.BUt I digress....

 

Now does this mean that back when I bought this lot (12-14 couple months ago) that Suicide Squad 1 was selling for $1 in raw NM (or better)?

 

'EFF NO....it does not.

 

A year ago, raw NM copies were going for around $25.I can tell you that because I have been tracking the sales of that book on ebay and what dealers have it listed at, when i am at conventions.I also have casually asked convention dealers what they get for that book.As I do with any book which interests me, which is key in having a better understanding of being to accurately gauge market value.

 

 

A year ago Suicide Squad 1 from 1987 was not $25 in NM. It was selling for half that, including shipping. How do I know? Because I bought every decent copy off eBay over the course of a few months. I even made a WTB thread here on the boards and was willing to pay over market price for the book because the all black cover makes it unforgiving when it comes to color breaks.

 

There was no established market price of $25 for that book a year ago, not even close. This was a dollar box book at every show. Legends 3 wasn't even a $25 book a year ago. Hell, the priciest issue from the '87 Suicide Squad run a year ago was 48.

 

There was no consistent demand for the '87 series a year ago. It was mostly irrelevant with a few interested parties occasionally paying a premium price for the Oracle related books (23,48,49) or the first issue, again because of the cover. I bought a slabbed 9.8 copy of Legends 3 off Rich Henn in February for $75. This was a book he had to source; he didn't already have a slabbed copy. I mention that not because I think it was hard for him to find, but because I imagine this bit of extra legwork went into his price.

Edited January 26, 2015 by darkstar

[divad]

Much ado about nothing in this thread . . . What's hot today? is the the question.

 

Who gives a rip about everyone's self-glorifying anecdotes?

[RockMyAmadeus]

I'm just waiting for Legends #6 to take off again. It was a helluva book back when the "new" Justice League was hotter than Georgia asphalt in August, and it's wildly undervalued now.

 

If the "new" incarnation of the SS can get a bump, so can the "new" incarnation of the JL (which was far, far, FAR superior to Suicide Squad...leaps and bounds better. If you've never red Giffen and DeMatteis' JL run...you're missing out, man!)