Copper's Heating/Selling Well on Ebay 33 33

[thecopperagekids]

There are 5 CGC/CBCS 9.8 copies of Legends 3 on eBay right now....sorry, but that hardly constitutes market oversaturation

 

Furthermore, comparing X-Force 2 with Legends 3 is like apples and oranges.

 

It would be more likely to be justly comparable to a book like X-factor 6, which is roughly on the same level as importance as Legends 3 and it is in the same time period as Legends 3.Look up what X-Factor 6 sells for in 9.8.

 

Extrapolate that sales data, in relation to my thoughts below and then you'll see how I came up with a figure of $500 being the going rate for 9.8 copies of Legends 3, in the near future.Also consider there were more copies of X Factor 6 produced than Legends 3....considerably more I'd wager as this was an X Men book and Marvel trumped all of DC's sales figures in the mid/late 1980's.

 

There are a total of 19 CGC/CBCS 9.8 copies of X factor 6 on eBay as I type this, a while back X factor 6 was selling well at $500-ish in 9.8.

 

X-Force 2 had a print run in the hundreds of thousands and previous to the announcement of the Deadpool movie was readily available in dollar boxes at every comic convention out there.I was at a show last year and a dealer had about 5 tables worth of dollar boxes.One box had over a 100 copies of X Force 2 in it.At the end of the show, they were nearly all still there.

 

Also, consider that X-Force 2 was printed in 1990, when massive print runs for X-Men titles (especially 1st and 2nd issues) were the norm and Leifeld was one of the hottest artists out there so Marvel capitalized on his popularity with all of his comic covers produced en masse.This book was put out during the years of the "comic investment boom", which was a couple years before Valiant came out and the comic market took a big hit due to over speculation on "hot books" like X-Force and Magnus etc....

 

You can bet there was a ton of collector/"investor" types who bought X-Force 2 and stuck the book right into a damn Mylar sleeve, to boot.

 

Legends 3 however had much smaller numbers and as a second tier title, the print run would not have been all that high in the first place.

 

Legends books had sat in .50 cent boxes for years, getting neglected and so on.

 

Add up all that information I've laid out with what I posted in my first post.

 

Apply the standard supply/demand economics model,as everything I have laid out has a supporting basis in fact, not conjecture....

 

Equals...

 

.......you have a consistent seller at around the $500 mark in 9.8, within a year.

 

Of course, this is only my theory and opinion but it is all backed on my years spent in this hobby and the understanding of the market as a result of experience.I am not predicting market trends or anything else, head up my -esque.

 

These are my thoughts on a book, based on my understanding of both the past and current market for copper keys and how the demand interwines in relation to future growth spurts....all of which we have seen time and time again.

 

On that point,one thing we can all be sure of is that comics with already pre-existing strong fan bases, only increase exponentially in value when interest is further created with production of a movie.....and comics with established fan bases will always have a steady demand for first appearance books.

 

Of course there will be shifts in the market, which will result in short term price differentials in books like X factor 6 in 9.8 and Legends 3 in 9.8.

 

This happened with X Factor 6, which up intil recently, was selling for $500 in 9.8, now it moves closer to the $300 mark.Legends 3 was selling at upwards of $400 in 9.8 a couple months ago, now it is at around the $250-350 mark in realized sales.

 

Once the hype settles down after the movies are out, prices will level off and slowly increase again as the characters shown in the movies are all characters which are shown in new books, each and every month.

 

I welcome intelligent discussion on the points I have made. I will also respond in kind to anyone who has a valid counterpoint and/or attempts to refute what I've said.

[spreads]

Everyone knows it's the 1st black costume in the title - it's on every CGC label.

Go back under your bridge troll.

That's not what your listing said. You are purposefully deceiving people. I wonder if you've always been this way and I jus never noticed it. I used to think you were a boardie with integrity. Now I don't see any. Purposefully overgrazing and now outright lying.

He did something similar with his Alpha Flight #17 sale. Described it as "First appearance of Big Hero Six" in big bold copy, and then formatted less prominently in the paragraph following it "by their creators," as if the first work by a creative team that's not an actual first appearance is something that collectors care about. Clearly intended to deceive people into thinking that it was the first appearance of Big Hero Six.

 

Most people know what they are buying, you're trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill. You can't do anything about who writes what on their auctions, the buyer needs to understand what they are buying. It really has no effect on you on, so why not just worry about yourself? I'm not in Divad's corner since i've had beef with him in the past but people on here are splitting hairs on his product descriptions about what is "exactly correct to a tee" needs to stop, try going outside for a walk, get some exercise since I know most of you people could use it.

 

Maybe the buyer should be cognizant of what they're buying, but that doesn't absolve his responsibility. How would you feel if a parent or relative of yours got fleeced from a greasy salesman? What he's doing is dishonest, plain and simple.

 

Again, it doesn't relate to you. eBay does have a return policy and even some sellers don't know everything. I think you guys are just tired of seeing him post his auction results in the thread, well...I'm tired of reading off topic nonsense like this in the thread.

 

Maybe you should call the eBay police and tell them you don't agree with his comic descriptions, besides, most people don't even read them anyway, they just hit the BIN/Bid button. If the buyer buys it and is happy with it, then who is he hurting? You? The collector sitting on his over weight rear end at the comic store playing magic cards with teenagers? The guy down the street?

 

Ever think the buyer knows and actually wants the issue? Maybe he's trying to put an Alpha Flight run together? Maybe he's trying to grab all the Big Hero 6 appearances...You're not the buyer and you're not a mind reader and that goes for anyone complaining about someone's auction trying to sell a book, you don't know the buyer's intent. Plain and simple.

 

And to answer your question about my parents or one of my relatives being taken advantage of "greasy salesman" I'd laugh at them for being so stupid and not doing your research beforehand.

 

I work in the trading division of an investment firm of 39 billion AUM, I couldn't care less about a guy making $10-15 on a comic book. What's he doing is sleazy, if you want to hang out with this clown be my guest.

 

Rather hang out with you!

 

I don't think what he's doing is sleazy at all, I do however think that bringing up what you do for a living out of the blue is pretty sleazy in itself, Doesn't matter how much the company you work for is worth, it's pointless and irrelevant to the discussion and brings nothing to the table other than your inflated ego.

 

I'm a busy guy, I didn't get past the first sentence in your rambling. So I threw in a quick summary....

 

You found the time troll though! Mr. Busy

 

I think I've spent 15 minutes over the last 10 days here; how were your holidays Kev?

[fastballspecial]

I can only see short term gain in Legends #3 - just too many high grade copies out there. Ebay is already flooded with them, just like X-force 2.

 

Nah it will be a $50 book and maybe higher as the movie gets closer in raw. Slabs will even go higher for awhile.

 

X-force 2 will even move some higher as the movie gets closer. I would have never said this 5 years ago, but you can see a pattern pretty clearly with movies and appearances.

 

The buying pool as movies get closer gets stronger then fades off once the movie premieres. If its a hit it continues to hold value if not you see it begin to slowly gradual fall back to a price somewhere around 50% of its high. I use this for Marvel/DC books.

 

Edited December 28, 2014 by Fastballspecial

[RockMyAmadeus]

There are 5 CGC/CBCS 9.8 copies of Legends 3 on eBay right now....sorry, but that hardly constitutes market oversaturation

 

Furthermore, comparing X-Force 2 with Legends 3 is like apples and oranges.

 

It would be more likely to be justly comparable to a book like X-factor 6, which is roughly on the same level as importance as Legends 3 and it is in the same time period as Legends 3.Look up what X-Factor 6 sells for in 9.8.

 

No, it wouldn't. Legends #3 came out the same month as Superman #1. At that time, Byrne was red hot, having, by virtue of the then-current MOS mini, pulled DC ahead of sales over Marvel for the first time in 15 years. Legends was a very big hit for the company, and sold a bazillion copies.

 

X-Factor #6, however, did not.

 

Extrapolate that sales data, in relation to my thoughts below and then you'll see how I came up with a figure of $500 being the going rate for 9.8 copies of Legends 3, in the near future.Also consider there were more copies of X Factor 6 produced than Legends 3....considerably more I'd wager as this was an X Men book and Marvel trumped all of DC's sales figures in the mid/late 1980's.

 

You would be quite wrong, on several points.

 

There are a total of 19 CGC/CBCS 9.8 copies of X factor 6 on eBay as I type this, a while back X factor 6 was selling well at $500-ish in 9.8.

 

X-Force 2 had a print run in the hundreds of thousands and previous to the announcement of the Deadpool movie was readily available in dollar boxes at every comic convention out there.I was at a show last year and a dealer had about 5 tables worth of dollar boxes.One box had over a 100 copies of X Force 2 in it.At the end of the show, they were nearly all still there.

 

Also, consider that X-Force 2 was printed in 1990, when massive print runs for X-Men titles (especially 1st and 2nd issues) were the norm and Leifeld was one of the hottest artists out there so Marvel capitalized on his popularity with all of his comic covers produced en masse.This book was put out during the years of the "comic investment boom", which was a couple years before Valiant came out and the comic market took a big hit due to over speculation on "hot books" like X-Force and Magnus etc....

 

X-Force #2 had a print run of over a million. It was the #1 selling comic book the month it was published.

 

It was also printed in 1991. Both Solar and Magnus #1 were published before X-Force #2. In fact, Magnus #1-4 were published before X-Force #2. I'm not sure where you got the "couple of years before Valiant."

 

You can bet there was a ton of collector/"investor" types who bought X-Force 2 and stuck the book right into a damn Mylar sleeve, to boot.

 

Legends 3 however had much smaller numbers and as a second tier title, the print run would not have been all that high in the first place.

 

Legends was DC's first company wide crossover since Crisis, which proved to be a phenomenal hit. It also featured the art of John Byrne, which, as I said before, was also quite hot. It was not only NOT "second tier", it was a smash success for DC. Much smaller numbers than X-Force #2? Sure...but not significantly smaller, no.

 

Legends books had sat in .50 cent boxes for years, getting neglected and so on.

 

And there were also cases of the book sitting around, with many, many, many high grade copies still easily available.

 

Add up all that information I've laid out with what I posted in my first post.

 

Apply the standard supply/demand economics model,as everything I have laid out has a supporting basis in fact, not conjecture....

 

Equals...

 

.......you have a consistent seller at around the $500 mark in 9.8, within a year.

 

We shall see.

 

Of course, this is only my theory and opinion but it is all backed on my years spent in this hobby and the understanding of the market as a result of experience.I am not predicting market trends or anything else, head up my -esque.

 

You have gotten several vital facts wrong. Now, I'm not attacking you...but why should anyone take your opinion as educated if you get vital facts wrong? You have to have your facts straight before making any reliable predictions.

 

 

[Kevin76]

I've said it once, I'll say it again, print runs are overrated as long as the demand is there, Don't believe me? ASM 300, NM98, Hulk 181, GS X-Men 1, BA 12. No matter how many of them there are, people will continue to hunt for big 1st appearances, X-Factor 6 is showing no signs of slowing down. For a book that is "common" they certainly aren't readily available on the cheap.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I've said it once, I'll say it again, print runs are overrated as long as the demand is there, Don't believe me? ASM 300, NM98, Hulk 181, GS X-Men 1, BA 12. No matter how many of them there are, people will continue to hunt for big 1st appearances, X-Factor 6 is showing no signs of slowing down. For a book that is "common" they certainly aren't readily available on the cheap.

 

None of the books you mentioned had anything other than average print runs. That's why they are so expensive, while Spiderman #1, for example, is not.

[thecopperagekids]

Very well said...and cheers for pointing out my errors, which I will admit were due to some fairly...embaressing... intellectual laziness, on my part.

 

AFAIK the release dates of Magnus/Valiant books with X Force 2, I was going by memory and it is fairly immaterial wether they were released a year or 2, before or after one another.

 

I only brought Valiant books into this discussion as a reference point for the late 80's/early 90's comic speculator boom period.

 

I did not know the print run of X Force 2, only that it was ridiculously high, which I alluded to.

 

But ...., I will readily concede to grossly overlooking the Byrne/Legend tie in hotness angle.In all honesty, "overlooking" isn't an aptly fitting term as I had guessed on Legends being a second tier book and not having a signifigant print run.

 

So yeah, there's a solid point in your favor.Quite a solid point but even so, I think the likelihood of Legends 3 copies all of a sudden turning up in droves in graded 9.8 is slim to none.Even if such a box does turn up, good luck on a signifigant amount of them fetching 9.8 grades.And by the unlikely chance that a 100 or so 9.8's get churned out in a week, there will still be more Suicide Squad collectors on the market that want the book in 9.8 than the supply accounts for.

 

Graded copies have been selling for around $300 for months now.That said, it's not a secret that Legends 3 is a book to have graded, if you're looking to sell it and make a quick profit.We would have seen many more 9.8 copies on the census , flooding the market by now, if is a relatively easy book to find in 9.8.

 

I'd wager that copies left somewhere in crates, would not have survived the 27 years or so they have been in storage, without signifigant paper degradation.other than usual corner dents, spine stress, the most prevalent defect that I see with Legends 3 is dirt and coinciding light abrasion to the cover.The light blue background reveals cover dirt just about as much if the background were stark white and to make matters worse, you cannot dry clean such a background without taking off cover inks.

 

All that aside, we are talking about a book which contains the 1st app. of a wildly popular team with the current incarnation brimming with the likes of Harley Quinn and so on.

 

I believe it will be a matter of lower supply vs. higher demand.As I said earlier, a total of 5 copies of this book in CGC/CBCS 9.8 right now on eBay is a whopping 5.Now, am I suggesting that it's sound investment advice for someone to buy up those 5 copies for $1500 and sit on them for a year?

 

No, I am not.

 

I don't think it would be inherently *bad* advice though but that's besides the point....

 

When those 5 copies are sold at around $300 a shot to individual Suicide Squad collectors, it will be a rinse and repeat cycle.

 

We will have to wait and see....but as far as to making reliable predictions, I have NO intention of sharing "blue chip" comic advice with anyone.A sucker, I am not.

 

 

What I was doing was using past experiences/examples to show that history almost invariably repeats itself in this field and if insight to current market trends and character popularity is judiciously applied, we can use those past examples as a reliable gauge to forecast future outcomes of certain books.

 

I could go on and defend certain inaccurate facts of mine as sloppiness but , it was the day after Christmas and I I was a bit buzzed on Guinness when I wrote that first post.That still does not detract from the basis of using a supply/demand model, with the rest of the correct facts and insight provided, as more than likely indicating to serve as an accurate assessment of future trading rates.

 

Boo-yah.

[kimik]

I've said it once, I'll say it again, print runs are overrated as long as the demand is there, Don't believe me? ASM 300, NM98, Hulk 181, GS X-Men 1, BA 12. No matter how many of them there are, people will continue to hunt for big 1st appearances, X-Factor 6 is showing no signs of slowing down. For a book that is "common" they certainly aren't readily available on the cheap.

 

None of the books you mentioned had anything other than average print runs. That's why they are so expensive, while Spiderman #1, for example, is not.

 

X-Force #2 had an average print run for its time period as well........

 

I think his point was that despite ample supply books will still run up in value. I have to agree with that. This logic is the reason I passed on the best OO copies of Hulk #181 a seller had at his table at a small Calgary show in 2002 or 2003. He was asking full Guide for a very common Bronze Age book. A little while after the show he submitted the books to CGC - the two copies I was looking at came back as 9.6 and 9.4 unpressed.

Edited December 28, 2014 by kimik

[ygogolak]

I've said it once, I'll say it again, print runs are overrated as long as the demand is there, Don't believe me? ASM 300, NM98, Hulk 181, GS X-Men 1, BA 12. No matter how many of them there are, people will continue to hunt for big 1st appearances, X-Factor 6 is showing no signs of slowing down. For a book that is "common" they certainly aren't readily available on the cheap.

 

None of the books you mentioned had anything other than average print runs. That's why they are so expensive, while Spiderman #1, for example, is not.

 

I'm going to bite:

 

Is there something special about Spider-Man and X-Men #1??

[MrWeen]

I think we gravely underestimate the destruction of many of these comics. I personally had a comic book bonfire party and we lit case after case of Ex-Mutants #1. I estimate I reduced the available print run of that awful comic by 20,000.

[mysterio]

I think we gravely underestimate the destruction of many of these comics. I personally had a comic book bonfire party and we lit case after case of Ex-Mutants #1. I estimate I reduced the available print run of that awful comic by 20,000.

 

And this increased demand for this awful comic not one tiny bit.

[Kevin76]

I've said it once, I'll say it again, print runs are overrated as long as the demand is there, Don't believe me? ASM 300, NM98, Hulk 181, GS X-Men 1, BA 12. No matter how many of them there are, people will continue to hunt for big 1st appearances, X-Factor 6 is showing no signs of slowing down. For a book that is "common" they certainly aren't readily available on the cheap.

 

None of the books you mentioned had anything other than average print runs. That's why they are so expensive, while Spiderman #1, for example, is not.

 

I said as long as there is demand for the book, try understanding what you've read.

There is no demand for a Spider-Man 1 or an X-Men 1

[Kevin76]

I've said it once, I'll say it again, print runs are overrated as long as the demand is there, Don't believe me? ASM 300, NM98, Hulk 181, GS X-Men 1, BA 12. No matter how many of them there are, people will continue to hunt for big 1st appearances, X-Factor 6 is showing no signs of slowing down. For a book that is "common" they certainly aren't readily available on the cheap.

 

None of the books you mentioned had anything other than average print runs. That's why they are so expensive, while Spiderman #1, for example, is not.

 

I'm going to bite:

 

Is there something special about Spider-Man and X-Men #1??

Ok, Same with you, As long as there is a demand for the book, there is no demand for Spider-Man 1 and X-Men 1, try understanding what you've read.

[Petey's Wheatcake]

I've said it once, I'll say it again, print runs are overrated as long as the demand is there, Don't believe me? ASM 300, NM98, Hulk 181, GS X-Men 1, BA 12. No matter how many of them there are, people will continue to hunt for big 1st appearances, X-Factor 6 is showing no signs of slowing down. For a book that is "common" they certainly aren't readily available on the cheap.

 

None of the books you mentioned had anything other than average print runs. That's why they are so expensive, while Spiderman #1, for example, is not.

 

No, they are so expensive because they are first appearances and the major keys of their time.

 

Kevin76 is correct on this one. Demand is significantly more important than print run. Sure, we could imagine hypothetical instances where this would not be true, but they would have to involve outlandish, record-breaking numbers to have any impact on the first appearances of some of the most popular comic book characters of the last forty years. Spider-Man #1 is not comparable to Incredible Hulk #181.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I've said it once, I'll say it again, print runs are overrated as long as the demand is there, Don't believe me? ASM 300, NM98, Hulk 181, GS X-Men 1, BA 12. No matter how many of them there are, people will continue to hunt for big 1st appearances, X-Factor 6 is showing no signs of slowing down. For a book that is "common" they certainly aren't readily available on the cheap.

 

None of the books you mentioned had anything other than average print runs. That's why they are so expensive, while Spiderman #1, for example, is not.

 

X-Force #2 had an average print run for its time period as well........

 

 

X-Force #2 didn't have an average print run at all. It was the 4th highest selling book of all of 1991, after X-Men #1, X-Force #1, and Robin II: The Joker's Wild #1. But you knew that.

 

I think his point was that despite ample supply books will still run up in value. I have to agree with that.

 

I understand his point, and it's still inaccurate. The books he cited all had print runs in the 200-400k range...not the million+ range (and for BA #12, even lower...the Cap City orders for that book were 19,200! )

 

Add to that, the fact that most of them were ignored for years, sometimes decades, after they came out, and attrition took its toll. The OPG for GSXM #1 in 1978? $1.80.

 

That is why they have value. Hulk #181 may appear to be ubiquitous, but it's not any more common than any other book of its era, and certainly LESS common than, say, the average Amazing Spiderman from the same period. I know that may not make sense intuitively, because we see Hulk #181 everywhere...but that's only because the demand is crazy.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

I've said it once, I'll say it again, print runs are overrated as long as the demand is there, Don't believe me? ASM 300, NM98, Hulk 181, GS X-Men 1, BA 12. No matter how many of them there are, people will continue to hunt for big 1st appearances, X-Factor 6 is showing no signs of slowing down. For a book that is "common" they certainly aren't readily available on the cheap.

 

None of the books you mentioned had anything other than average print runs. That's why they are so expensive, while Spiderman #1, for example, is not.

 

No, they are so expensive because they are first appearances and the major keys of their time.

 

Right. Tastes great, less filling.

 

Because, as everyone knows, if there were 10 million copies of Hulk #181 floating around, it would still sell for $X,XXX in 9.X grades.

 

Right...?

 

Kevin76 is correct on this one. Demand is significantly more important than print run.

 

 

I see. So, supply is significantly less important than demand.

 

Interesting.

 

No, it is BOTH supply AND demand that determine value. Anyone...like you, and Kevin76...trying to claim that demand is more important than supply...or vice versa...doesn't have the whole picture, and is going to come to faulty conclusions.

 

Spider-Man #1 is not comparable to Incredible Hulk #181.

 

You are quite correct...they are not.

 

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

I've said it once, I'll say it again, print runs are overrated as long as the demand is there, Don't believe me? ASM 300, NM98, Hulk 181, GS X-Men 1, BA 12. No matter how many of them there are, people will continue to hunt for big 1st appearances, X-Factor 6 is showing no signs of slowing down. For a book that is "common" they certainly aren't readily available on the cheap.

 

None of the books you mentioned had anything other than average print runs. That's why they are so expensive, while Spiderman #1, for example, is not.

 

I said as long as there is demand for the book, try understanding what you've read.

There is no demand for a Spider-Man 1 or an X-Men 1

 

Really? There's no demand for Todd McFarlane's Spiderman #1...?

 

 

Fascinating!

 

 

[Jimmy Linguini]

Asm 300 Chrome seems to have stayed the same while the regular higher print run asm 300 has skyrocketed as of recent. Weird.

[mintcollector]

Asm 300 Chrome seems to have stayed the same while the regular higher print run asm 300 has skyrocketed as of recent. Weird.

 

I was surprised by this fact too. I remember when ASM 300 was at close to $1000 in 9.8. Now it appears poised to surpass even that price point. I really don't understand this and caution buyers to use some form of restraint. Over the holiday weekend I helped a friend clean out a spare room in his house. We found a small box of comics from the 80's and 90's and sure enough multiple copies of this and NM 98 were found bagged and boarded. There are tons of high grade copper keys out there. In the meantime he is going to get those books pressed and graded.

[Jeffro.]

Asm 300 Chrome seems to have stayed the same while the regular higher print run asm 300 has skyrocketed as of recent. Weird.

 

There is no ASM 300 chromium. It's called Marvel Collectible Classics Amazing Spider-Man #1