Copper's Heating/Selling Well on Ebay 33 33

[whetteon]

The recalled TMNT #1 9.6 error edition have been trending up recently. Only $51 but 27 watchers. It's limited to 1000 and it's a #1 TMNT book... all good things.

Edited February 4, 2015 by whetteon

[Prince Namor]

If someone collects a PREVIEWS because their favorite character first appeared in an ad there.. I can understand that.

To pay $50 for it, I would find bizarre.

 

To think it's a 'first appearance' in a collectors sense, is just strange.

 

To market it that way is just dishonest.

 

Liars, cheats, and con men will always try to distort perceptions to make a buck.

 

It's why there's so many copies of 90's drek sitting in long boxes in storage areas.

 

Don't you think many that do not appreciate our hobby find anyone paying more than cover price for a 'silly funny book' bizarre?

 

Yes. All the more reason for finding something that truly ISN'T valuable, selling for a premium, to be bizarre. Because WE should know better. If, say, Invincible was my favorite character, and I wanted to own the Previews to show how he was first promoted in it, I wouldn't find that weird. I would have a hard time justifying it as an item that I would pay $50 for.

 

We DO know better. Unfortunately, as comics are on the rise again, so are the snakes and weasels. There are people who DON'T know better. And once they get tricked into buying enough worthless junk they'll stop buying comics and move on again. And this hobby doesn't need that all over again.

 

A collector is going to pay what they feel is a fair price for an item based on their (1) emotional attachment, (2) assumed future value or (3) excitement at that point in time.

 

You forgot 4) What some dingleberry convinces them that it's worth.

 

When most of us say 'a collector', we're generally thinking of someone as experienced, at least, as ourselves. The truth is, there are many collectors who are NOT as experienced as some of us and WILL spend money on someone's deceitfully priced junk, because 1) their emotional attachment is easy prey, 2) assumed future value is a trick for 90+% of this copper/modern stuff, and 3) their excitement at 'that' point in time is heavily contingent on their experience.

 

If any of those three are not factored in, then those PREVIEWS would sit and sit as an active listing, while passers-by happening across them shake their head wondering what that seller was thinking.

 

But those PREVIEWS DID sit and sit, UNTIL someone decided that they were a good angle to make some money on. As the saying goes, a sucker is born everyday. Sports Card dealers did this kind of thing in the 90's - "Hey Look, this is a business card from Emmitt Smith's Card shop in Florida, you can own one for $25!" (Unsigned even)

 

I mean let's face it.... no one here with experience TRULY believes a PREVIEWS preview of a character is REALLY going to be of value in the future and is a good investment. So the only reason anyone with experience would think to SELL a PREVIEWS preview of a character to someone for an outrageous price is simply to dupe someone who doesn't know better.

 

People can argue they're appealing to a collector's need and yadda yadda yadda, but when someone CREATES a demand, to simply take advantage of it, when they know it's NOT an item as valuable to they're selling it for.... it's bordering on a con game.

 

Add into it, a few shill accounts to create fake sales to falsely try and prop up the market (we know it goes on) or to come on a message board and argue for it's value (corporations do something similar, creating shill accounts to secretly join forums and promote products), then what you have is a full on con.

 

 

[chrisco37]

 

 

Yes. All the more reason for finding something that truly ISN'T valuable, selling for a premium, to be bizarre. Because WE should know better. If, say, Invincible was my favorite character, and I wanted to own the Previews to show how he was first promoted in it, I wouldn't find that weird. I would have a hard time justifying it as an item that I would pay $50 for.

 

We DO know better. Unfortunately, as comics are on the rise again, so are the snakes and weasels. There are people who DON'T know better. And once they get tricked into buying enough worthless junk they'll stop buying comics and move on again. And this hobby doesn't need that all over again.

 

Nailed it, Chuck. (thumbs u

[Chip Cataldo]

[i do find however, that many buyers prefer[i] not[/i] to buy books from sellers with high feedback numbers.

Can you elaborate on this? I don't see how that flows logically from how eBay is set up.

 

Peace,

 

Chip

[Jeffro.]

The only high feedback sellers that I am reluctant about dealing with are the ones that have so many transactions that their feedback rating absorbs negatives. You can have hundreds of negatives and still have a very high feedback rating.

[RockMyAmadeus]

If someone collects a PREVIEWS because their favorite character first appeared in an ad there.. I can understand that.

To pay $50 for it, I would find bizarre.

 

To think it's a 'first appearance' in a collectors sense, is just strange.

 

To market it that way is just dishonest.

 

Liars, cheats, and con men will always try to distort perceptions to make a buck.

 

It's why there's so many copies of 90's drek sitting in long boxes in storage areas.

 

Don't you think many that do not appreciate our hobby find anyone paying more than cover price for a 'silly funny book' bizarre?

 

Yes. All the more reason for finding something that truly ISN'T valuable, selling for a premium, to be bizarre. Because WE should know better. If, say, Invincible was my favorite character, and I wanted to own the Previews to show how he was first promoted in it, I wouldn't find that weird. I would have a hard time justifying it as an item that I would pay $50 for.

 

We DO know better. Unfortunately, as comics are on the rise again, so are the snakes and weasels. There are people who DON'T know better. And once they get tricked into buying enough worthless junk they'll stop buying comics and move on again. And this hobby doesn't need that all over again.

 

A collector is going to pay what they feel is a fair price for an item based on their (1) emotional attachment, (2) assumed future value or (3) excitement at that point in time.

 

You forgot 4) What some dingleberry convinces them that it's worth.

 

When most of us say 'a collector', we're generally thinking of someone as experienced, at least, as ourselves. The truth is, there are many collectors who are NOT as experienced as some of us and WILL spend money on someone's deceitfully priced junk, because 1) their emotional attachment is easy prey, 2) assumed future value is a trick for 90+% of this copper/modern stuff, and 3) their excitement at 'that' point in time is heavily contingent on their experience.

 

If any of those three are not factored in, then those PREVIEWS would sit and sit as an active listing, while passers-by happening across them shake their head wondering what that seller was thinking.

 

But those PREVIEWS DID sit and sit, UNTIL someone decided that they were a good angle to make some money on. As the saying goes, a sucker is born everyday. Sports Card dealers did this kind of thing in the 90's - "Hey Look, this is a business card from Emmitt Smith's Card shop in Florida, you can own one for $25!" (Unsigned even)

 

I mean let's face it.... no one here with experience TRULY believes a PREVIEWS preview of a character is REALLY going to be of value in the future and is a good investment. So the only reason anyone with experience would think to SELL a PREVIEWS preview of a character to someone for an outrageous price is simply to dupe someone who doesn't know better.

 

People can argue they're appealing to a collector's need and yadda yadda yadda, but when someone CREATES a demand, to simply take advantage of it, when they know it's NOT an item as valuable to they're selling it for.... it's bordering on a con game.

 

Add into it, a few shill accounts to create fake sales to falsely try and prop up the market (we know it goes on) or to come on a message board and argue for it's value (corporations do something similar, creating shill accounts to secretly join forums and promote products), then what you have is a full on con.

 

 

Yes.

 

Maybe hearing the message from multiple people and perspectives will help it sink in.

 

It's not about demand. It's not about personal views. It's not about "what I collect rocks, what you collect sucks."

 

It's about trying to redefine terms that are perfectly fine as they are, in order to manipulate a market and take advantage of the ignorant.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I "shake my head" about almost everything that's said around here . . . Egos are so large, that no one seems to think that what someone else wants to do is there own business.

 

+1

 

or their own business too.

 

David's "large ego" comment aside (because "large ego" is defined here as anyone who takes the time to post one more than one-liners, who takes the time to discuss issues in depth, and is willing to defend their opinions), do you think it's acceptable to deliberately mislead prospective buyers?

 

I mean "mind your own business" is convenient when someone is doing something that isn't legitimate, right?

 

[the blob]

 

Dude, I tried to be nice, even reverential, recognizing your brilliance and expertise in this subject matter, but you've devoted like 50 pages to this particular topic (Gambit's first appearance). You won, ok. You won like 40 posts ago. Your arguments were persuasive, well reasoned, well researched and correct. You are on the side of truth, justice and the american way!

 

In the words of some Disney princess, "Let it go, let it go, let it go..." (can't remember the rest of the song). I can't even remember who you are arguing with (I am certain it was not me!), I can only remember your name. Aren't you bored with this topic? Yes, I know it is your right to muse endlessly on the same topic and putting anyone who disagrees with you (aka "is wrong") in their place, I'm all for the First Amendment, but there is so much more you probably know that I would like to be privy to. Plus, it is getting in the way of me freeloading information from other folks here about which copper age books are hot in the event I ever sell or buy comics again, which is pretty likely as I just bought some on Friday.

 

And yes, it's not fair to single you out, but frankly i tend to read your posts because you quote what you are responding to and it's just easier, so I really do lose track of the names of other people involved.

 

 

Why are you making a public issue of this?

 

 

You were mean to me when I told you how smart you are. Not nice. Now I'm going to need to see my therapist for an extra session this week.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

You were mean to me when I told you how smart you are. Not nice. Now I'm going to need to see my therapist for an extra session this week.

 

Your therapist is stealing your money.

[the blob]

OK, my bartender.

[RockMyAmadeus]

OK, my bartender.

 

Well, at least you're getting liquor out of the deal...

[Bosco685]

You forgot 4) What some dingleberry convinces them that it's worth.

 

You are so right on that one. Although doesn't this tie back to (2) assumed future value? It's just they were convinced by someone else 'DUDE, GRAB THIS NOW. YOU'LL THANK ME LATER!'

 

I mean let's face it.... no one here with experience TRULY believes a PREVIEWS preview of a character is REALLY going to be of value in the future and is a good investment. So the only reason anyone with experience would think to SELL a PREVIEWS preview of a character to someone for an outrageous price is simply to dupe someone who doesn't know better.

 

People can argue they're appealing to a collector's need and yadda yadda yadda, but when someone CREATES a demand, to simply take advantage of it, when they know it's NOT an item as valuable to they're selling it for.... it's bordering on a con game.

 

Add into it, a few shill accounts to create fake sales to falsely try and prop up the market (we know it goes on) or to come on a message board and argue for it's value (corporations do something similar, creating shill accounts to secretly join forums and promote products), then what you have is a full on con.

 

You are talking about how they created excitement over the demand. It still falls into three buyer-side motivators, which may be fueled by certain terms or pictures.

 

(1) emotional attachment

(2) assumed future value

(3) excitement at that point in time

 

Someone plugging in marketing terms like HOT, SCARCE, REAL 1st APPEARANCE or other statements are attempting to hit on one or more motivators.

 

But I do agree. If you are going to be talked into a purchase without researching the books, you get what you put into it.

[Vikingreed]

The only high feedback sellers that I am reluctant about dealing with are the ones that have so many transactions that their feedback rating absorbs negatives. You can have hundreds of negatives and still have a very high feedback rating.

 

+1

This.

[MrWeen]

If someone collects a PREVIEWS because their favorite character first appeared in an ad there.. I can understand that.

To pay $50 for it, I would find bizarre.

 

To think it's a 'first appearance' in a collectors sense, is just strange.

 

To market it that way is just dishonest.

 

Liars, cheats, and con men will always try to distort perceptions to make a buck.

 

It's why there's so many copies of 90's drek sitting in long boxes in storage areas.

 

Don't you think many that do not appreciate our hobby find anyone paying more than cover price for a 'silly funny book' bizarre?

 

Yes. All the more reason for finding something that truly ISN'T valuable, selling for a premium, to be bizarre. Because WE should know better. If, say, Invincible was my favorite character, and I wanted to own the Previews to show how he was first promoted in it, I wouldn't find that weird. I would have a hard time justifying it as an item that I would pay $50 for.

 

We DO know better. Unfortunately, as comics are on the rise again, so are the snakes and weasels. There are people who DON'T know better. And once they get tricked into buying enough worthless junk they'll stop buying comics and move on again. And this hobby doesn't need that all over again.

 

A collector is going to pay what they feel is a fair price for an item based on their (1) emotional attachment, (2) assumed future value or (3) excitement at that point in time.

 

You forgot 4) What some dingleberry convinces them that it's worth.

 

When most of us say 'a collector', we're generally thinking of someone as experienced, at least, as ourselves. The truth is, there are many collectors who are NOT as experienced as some of us and WILL spend money on someone's deceitfully priced junk, because 1) their emotional attachment is easy prey, 2) assumed future value is a trick for 90+% of this copper/modern stuff, and 3) their excitement at 'that' point in time is heavily contingent on their experience.

 

If any of those three are not factored in, then those PREVIEWS would sit and sit as an active listing, while passers-by happening across them shake their head wondering what that seller was thinking.

 

But those PREVIEWS DID sit and sit, UNTIL someone decided that they were a good angle to make some money on. As the saying goes, a sucker is born everyday. Sports Card dealers did this kind of thing in the 90's - "Hey Look, this is a business card from Emmitt Smith's Card shop in Florida, you can own one for $25!" (Unsigned even)

 

I mean let's face it.... no one here with experience TRULY believes a PREVIEWS preview of a character is REALLY going to be of value in the future and is a good investment. So the only reason anyone with experience would think to SELL a PREVIEWS preview of a character to someone for an outrageous price is simply to dupe someone who doesn't know better.

 

People can argue they're appealing to a collector's need and yadda yadda yadda, but when someone CREATES a demand, to simply take advantage of it, when they know it's NOT an item as valuable to they're selling it for.... it's bordering on a con game.

 

Add into it, a few shill accounts to create fake sales to falsely try and prop up the market (we know it goes on) or to come on a message board and argue for it's value (corporations do something similar, creating shill accounts to secretly join forums and promote products), then what you have is a full on con.

 

 

Yes.

 

Maybe hearing the message from multiple people and perspectives will help it sink in.

 

It's not about demand. It's not about personal views. It's not about "what I collect rocks, what you collect sucks."

 

It's about trying to redefine terms that are perfectly fine as they are, in order to manipulate a market and take advantage of the ignorant.

 

I wholeheartedly disagree with this statement. For a second let's take the redefinition of terms out if it even though I personally believe that the hobby needs a better definition of what first appearance is.

 

Though some people may try to manipulate that market and take advantage you cannot say that all people are doing that. People who buy in any market are responsible for doing their own research and as a result are responsible for what they lose and what they gain.

 

For me the story is only part of the reason to collect comics and I suspect others feel the same way. If this were not true they why have artists to entire issues comprised of pin-ups? On occasion I might buy an issue only for the cover or I might grab a copy of Jonny Quest 9 cause it has a cool Sam Kieth pin-up. The story might suck but the art is what I'm buying that issue for. Point it people buy for all sorts of reason NOT JUST THE STORY. So when Invincible appears on the cover of Previews I might just want it cause it one of the only images of him on a publication of that size. I might be a completest and yes it might be because I think it's the first appearance. Some people might be nefarious and try to sell it for three hundred on Ebay. Again people need to do their own research. All I know is I paid 2.50 for mine and my collection is all the better for it.

[slym2none]

I see advertisements like this - say Bill Clinton was coming to your town to give a speech. Say the hall he is speaking at puts a Bill Clinton life-sized cardboard cutout in front of the hall with a sign saying "Bill Clinton, speaking here live!"

 

Does that mean Bill Clinton already appeared? Or do you have to wait until Bill Clinton ACTUALLY SHOWS UP to say that?

 

 

 

 

-slym

[Bosco685]

All this talk of twisted advertising reminds me of that 'Married With Children' episode where Al goes to meet The Man Who Met The Man Who Met Andy Griffith. I think he assumed originally he was going to meet Andy Griffith.

Married with Children by leedavid3312In the end, he didn't make any money either.

[Prince Namor]

You forgot 4) What some dingleberry convinces them that it's worth.

 

You are so right on that one. Although doesn't this tie back to (2) assumed future value? It's just they were convinced by someone else 'DUDE, GRAB THIS NOW. YOU'LL THANK ME LATER!'

 

I mean let's face it.... no one here with experience TRULY believes a PREVIEWS preview of a character is REALLY going to be of value in the future and is a good investment. So the only reason anyone with experience would think to SELL a PREVIEWS preview of a character to someone for an outrageous price is simply to dupe someone who doesn't know better.

 

People can argue they're appealing to a collector's need and yadda yadda yadda, but when someone CREATES a demand, to simply take advantage of it, when they know it's NOT an item as valuable to they're selling it for.... it's bordering on a con game.

 

Add into it, a few shill accounts to create fake sales to falsely try and prop up the market (we know it goes on) or to come on a message board and argue for it's value (corporations do something similar, creating shill accounts to secretly join forums and promote products), then what you have is a full on con.

 

You are talking about how they created excitement over the demand. It still falls into three buyer-side motivators, which may be fueled by certain terms or pictures.

 

(1) emotional attachment

(2) assumed future value

(3) excitement at that point in time

 

No.

 

See, before ANY of those things happen, they have to create a LIE. Create the CON.

 

Make a couple of fake sales on eBay, then go on the CGC boards, maybe create two accounts, so that they can agree with thier other account as they argue the merits of how an AD is a first appearance, so that they can trick some comic crack addict into buying something that is really nothing.

 

All of the 1), 2), and 3) stuff doesn't matter. Because a con is a con.

 

Someone plugging in marketing terms like HOT, SCARCE, REAL 1st APPEARANCE or other statements are attempting to hit on one or more motivators.

 

A con artist will take a score any way they can get it. With or without the 1), 2), or 3). And much more is going on than just buzz words in an eBay listing.

 

But I do agree. If you are going to be talked into a purchase without researching the books, you get what you put into it.

 

As a seller, I completely disagree on that. As a buyer, I don't blame the seller, I blame myself. Because I should know better.

 

But as a seller, I look at it a different way, because of how I was taught to drive: YOU are responsible for what you hit with the front of your car.

 

Sure, there are going to be numb skulls that wonder out into the street without looking or while texting; people slamming on their brakes, or animals that don't know better, or strollers run amok....

 

But if I just make sure I'm responsible for what is in front of my car, and do the best I can not to hit anything, then the world is a better place.

 

I mean isn't 'If you are going to be talked into a purchase without researching the books, you get what you put into it.' really the same thing as saying ''a sucker is born everyday'?

 

Is that the hobby we want? Like Baseball Card dealers?

 

 

 

As this hobby TRIES to grow, it always gets caught up in this garbage, and it HURTS us as a legitimate hobby. Look how much damage was done to the sports card hobby, from people creating demand.

 

In our own hobby, didn't we learn our lesson's the last time from WIZARD MAGAZINE who CREATED FALSE demand, sometimes printing high demand prices on books that weren't even released yet?

 

Did it help our hobby in the long run?

 

Now we want to just shrug our shoulders as people try to create demand for comic books that AREN'T EVEN COMIC BOOKS!!!

 

It's crazy.

 

We'll never grow as much as we should in our hobby with a buyer beware attitude.

 

 

 

[vaillant]

The only high feedback sellers that I am reluctant about dealing with are the ones that have so many transactions that their feedback rating absorbs negatives. You can have hundreds of negatives and still have a very high feedback rating.

 

+1

This.

 

I usually run away immediately from sellers like that. (thumbs u

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

 

As this hobby TRIES to grow, it always gets caught up in this garbage, and it HURTS us as a legitimate hobby. Look how much damage was done to the sports card hobby, from people creating demand.

 

...demand that is based on fluff, on smoke, on mirrors. There is nothing substantial beneath; there is nothing to the work on its own merits.

 

"Why do you want this issue of Previews?"

 

"Because it's the first appearance of Deadbloodkillsport!"

 

"What is special about Deadbloodkillsport?"

 

"He's cool!"

 

"Why?"

 

"What are you, a nutter? Look at him, he's got blades coming out of his armpits!!"

 

"What does he do?"

 

"I don't know...I've never read any of this stuff. Prolly fights bad guys, right?"

 

"How do you know he's not a bad guy himself? I mean, with a name like Deadbloodkillsport, that doesn't sound very wholesome, does it?"

 

"Aww, no one cares about that. He looks COOL!!"

 

And when the ADD-driven madness moves on to something new, as it invariably does, the house of cards collapses, because it had no artistic value, in and of itself, in the first place.

 

Some of you need to educate yourselves on why comic book characters occupy the place in pop culture that they do.

 

[Logan510]

 

 

As this hobby TRIES to grow, it always gets caught up in this garbage, and it HURTS us as a legitimate hobby. Look how much damage was done to the sports card hobby, from people creating demand.

 

...demand that is based on fluff, on smoke, on mirrors. There is nothing substantial beneath; there is nothing to the work on its own merits.

 

"Why do you want this issue of Previews?"

 

"Because it's the first appearance of Deadbloodkillsport!"

 

"What is special about Deadpoolkillsport?"

 

"He's cool!"

 

"Why?"

 

"What are you, a nutter? Look at him, he's got blades coming out of his armpits!!"

 

"What does he do?"

 

"I don't know...I've never read any of this stuff. Prolly fights bad guys, right?"

 

"How do you know he's not a bad guy himself? I mean, with a name like Deadbloodkillsport, that doesn't sound very wholesome, does it?"

 

"Aww, no one cares about that. He looks COOL!!"

 

And when the ADD-driven madness moves on to something new, as it invariably does, the house of cards collapses, because it had no artistic value, in and of itself, in the first place.

 

Some of you need to educate yourselves on why comic book characters occupy the place in pop culture that they do.

 

Stuff it, I know what's kewl and why