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Heritage 2013 February 21-23 Vintage Comics & Comic Art Auction

Started by dem1138,

274 posts in this topic

tth2

tth2

Posted
Posted
Why do OA types put in big bids so early?

 

Big bids? This ones going through the roof!! hm

But comics typically go along at tiny fractions of the estimated price until just near the end. In contrast, I've noticed that a lot of OA gets into five figures very rapidly and typically reaches a pretty high percentage of its final sale price pretty quickly.

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batman_fan

batman_fan

Posted
Posted
Why do OA types put in big bids so early?

 

Big bids? This ones going through the roof!! hm

But comics typically go along at tiny fractions of the estimated price until just near the end. In contrast, I've noticed that a lot of OA gets into five figures very rapidly and typically reaches a pretty high percentage of its final sale price pretty quickly.

 

I think the OA crowd is a little like dogs marking their territory.

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delekkerste

delekkerste

Posted
Posted
Why do OA types put in big bids so early?

 

On some lots, I like to accelerate the price discovery process. If my max bid on a lot is $X and I can escalate the bidding early on to something >$X, then I know that I can shift my attention and resources elsewhere. If I really want a lot, I may hold off on bidding it up to retain the element of surprise, but oftentimes I'll just keep bidding things up to see how badly the other person(s) want it - which is how I won my two Krazy Kat Sundays in the last sale (neither of them received any higher bids in the live bidding session).

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lb jefferies

lb jefferies

Posted
Posted
Why do OA types put in big bids so early?

 

On some lots, I like to accelerate the price discovery process. If my max bid on a lot is $X and I can escalate the bidding early on to something >$X, then I know that I can shift my attention and resources elsewhere. If I really want a lot, I may hold off on bidding it up to retain the element of surprise, but oftentimes I'll just keep bidding things up to see how badly the other person(s) want it - which is how I won my two Krazy Kat Sundays in the last sale (neither of them received any higher bids in the live bidding session).

 

You don't think certain people look at the end of the "discovery period" and then based on that number perhaps adjust their thinking on what it might take to win for the live auction? I think what you're saying is a slightly risky strategy, especially if you badly want a certain piece.

 

My reasoning is during the live auction the other guy only has a few seconds to decide whether or not to go out of his comfort zone on the piece, whereas if you bid high enough early on he has hours or even days to decide how much higher he's going to go.

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delekkerste

delekkerste

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You don't think certain people look at the end of the "discovery period" and then based on that number perhaps adjust their thinking on what it might take to win for the live auction? I think what you're saying is a slightly risky strategy, especially if you badly want a certain piece.

 

My reasoning is during the live auction the other guy only has a few seconds to decide whether or not to go out of his comfort zone on the piece, whereas if you bid high enough early on he has hours or even days to decide how much higher he's going to go.

 

I guess the answer is "it depends". For a piece where there is a high variability of potential price outcomes, I probably wouldn't want to show my full hand too soon and instead keep some dry powder on the sidelines to retain the element of surprise during the live bidding session. But, for a piece where the range of outcomes is fairly well known, I don't mind escalating the price discovery process quickly.

 

For example, if we know that a Krazy Kat Sunday of a certain caliber is very likely going to sell in the high $20Ks to mid-$30Ks, I don't see much point in stopping the bidding at $10-$15K when everybody knows it's not going to sell anywhere near there. As long as people keep escalating the price along with me, I'm happy to take it to its logical conclusion sooner rather than later for the reasons I explained above.

 

I'm the current high bidder on a piece in the current HA sale for which there are simply no good prior comps. It wouldn't shock me if I won the piece at my current high bid or if the final price was 2-3x higher. So, I stuck in my best bid now so I can see if anyone will top me. If so, fine, I can scratch that off the list and focus on other things. If not, then I know to keep enough powder dry to buy that one.

 

But, if, say, a grail piece came up for auction and I was willing to pay a ludicrous, record-breaking amount for it that could not have been predicted by any past comps, I would certainly not bid such a piece up early - I'd put in a small "watch bid" and then bring the shock and awe at the live session.

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VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
Posted
Why do OA types put in big bids so early?

 

Big bids? This ones going through the roof!! hm

But comics typically go along at tiny fractions of the estimated price until just near the end. In contrast, I've noticed that a lot of OA gets into five figures very rapidly and typically reaches a pretty high percentage of its final sale price pretty quickly.

 

Because unlike you, most people have limited budgets and want to feel out the other bidders to decide if they should pursue or not.

 

:baiting:

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Nexus

Nexus

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Posted

I never bid early. I only bid live. Besides Gene's rationale, other reasons I've heard for bidding early are:

 

1. To put in a "marker" bid. But don't see the point of this when the lot can be "tracked" or "watched".

 

2. To protect the market for a certain artist or work. This happens all the time, everywhere.

 

3. Simple thrill-bidding.

 

I understand Gene's philosophy, but it's not something I would do. Even when the market value is well-established, early bidding DOES create a sense of urgency amongst interested parties. More often than not, that will result in a higher-than-market winning bid. Great for the consignor, but not so great for the buyer.

 

Maybe the "discovery process" helps a bidder narrow down his options when there are multiple lots he's interested in. But for any lot he truly wants to win, my recommendation is for waiting until the end and then fire away. It's served me well. But then again, I'm selective and only bid on lots I "love" (and feel I have a chance to win) and don't bother kicking the tires on the lots I only "like" (and/or have no chance of winning, anyway).

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Nexus

Nexus

Posted
Posted
Why do OA types put in big bids so early?

 

Big bids? This ones going through the roof!! hm

But comics typically go along at tiny fractions of the estimated price until just near the end. In contrast, I've noticed that a lot of OA gets into five figures very rapidly and typically reaches a pretty high percentage of its final sale price pretty quickly.

 

Because unlike you, most people have limited budgets and want to feel out the other bidders to decide if they should pursue or not.

 

:baiting:

 

For what its worth, the collectors I know who generally win at auction, including the big lots, lay in the weeds until the end. Regardless of their budget. As well, very few of the collectors I talk to who bid early, for whatever reason, end up winning.

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tth2

tth2

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Posted
I never bid early. I only bid live. Besides Gene's rationale, other reasons I've heard for bidding early are:

 

1. To put in a "marker" bid. But don't see the point of this when the lot can be "tracked" or "watched".

Exactly. Or at least put in the minimum bid that's required to enter a bid. Instead, when a piece is sitting at $10,000 and the minimum next bid is $11,000, it seems to me that the OA folks put in a next bid of $20,000 or higher, which then causes the bidding to jump to whatever the previous high bidder's max bid was.

 

2. To protect the market for a certain artist or work. This happens all the time, everywhere.

 

3. Simple thrill-bidding.

My guess is that for a lot of "quick high bid" auctions, the reason is a combination of these, plus good old fashioned shill bidding.

 

I understand Gene's philosophy, but it's not something I would do. Even when the market value is well-established, early bidding DOES create a sense of urgency amongst interested parties. More often than not, that will result in a higher-than-market winning bid. Great for the consignor, but not so great for the buyer.

Exactly. Even in situations where Gene says the market is fairly well established, I would say that his putting in high bids early is a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

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blowout

blowout

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Interesting to read in the article that all 12 Watchmen covers are to be sold over the course of the year, three at each of the big Heritage Auctions. Wasn't aware of that until now, should be interesting to watch! hm

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Doc Joe

Doc Joe

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So...agreed that the watchmen covers are borderline exciting in term of actual art, but still..its the watchmen covers!!!

 

given that how would you rank them in order of desirability

 

issue 1 is at the top, then issue 12 presumably

 

how about the rest?

 

 

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Bird

Bird

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I always loved 11, but coloring has a strong effect on that one. I think 3 with the hazard warning symbol has become iconic, so that may fetch larger money than others. They are all really minimalist covers. Nine with the statue is nice, as is the Owl Ship one (7?). 6 with the Rorschach mask is okay, the butterfly pattern is a bit cliche.

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Doc Joe

Doc Joe

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are there any that WONT break 10K? or 20K?

 

I'd be extremely surprised if #11 broke $10K

 

+1

 

there are some of those covers that 'work' in print but when there is a whole lot of nothing on the page, maybe less so.

 

However...what if some deep pocket man wants to keep them as a set? :popcorn:

 

stand the heck back and watch the fireworks

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