RANT: Whatever the market will bear or frustrating BS?

[Frisco Larson]

So it's just a free-for-all?

 

How do I value my collection? If they guide says I've got say 200k worth of books, does that mean I should insure them for 2 million?

 

And let's not pretend ... and I'll tread lightly here since I'm pretty sure you're a dealer, but that Overstreet is not the first thing you or another dealer would go grabbing for when it's time to make someone an offer on their book or collection. You know ... well this book guides for $24 (look here, see) but you know it's a common book, and I need to make some money, I'll give you .... I promise your next words are not gonna be $250!

 

There is up-to-the-minute sales results available on-line (GPA, past auction house results etc) that are a much more accurate reflection on what collectors are paying. The Overstreet is all over the place in terms of being way too high, a little too high, pretty close, a little to low, way too low etc on many of the books listed in it. (And that's no disrespect to the Guide, there is just no way it can be anywhere near as accurate as actual sales results.

 

True, but actual sales results are skewed by the circumstances that surround each individual sale. Would a book sell for more to a collector needing it to fill a run rather than it being bought by a random collector?? I say: most of the time, YES!! I take issue with the idea that each sale sets a new benchmark for what a book is worth. Everything, by that logic, would keep spiraling upward. I'm not saying that you personally are saying that, but rather that it seems to be a commonly held viewpoint in the hobby.

[mrmyst]

So it's just a free-for-all?

 

How do I value my collection? If they guide says I've got say 200k worth of books, does that mean I should insure them for 2 million?

 

And let's not pretend ... and I'll tread lightly here since I'm pretty sure you're a dealer, but that Overstreet is not the first thing you or another dealer would go grabbing for when it's time to make someone an offer on their book or collection. You know ... well this book guides for $24 (look here, see) but you know it's a common book, and I need to make some money, I'll give you .... I promise your next words are not gonna be $250!

 

There is up-to-the-minute sales results available on-line (GPA, past auction house results etc) that are a much more accurate reflection on what collectors are paying. The Overstreet is all over the place in terms of being way too high, a little too high, pretty close, a little to low, way too low etc on many of the books listed in it. (And that's no disrespect to the Guide, there is just no way it can be anywhere near as accurate as actual sales results.

 

True, but actual sales results are skewed by the circumstances that surround each individual sale. Would a book sell for more to a collector needing it to fill a run rather than it being bought by a random collector?? I say: most of the time, YES!! I take issue with the idea that each sale sets a new benchmark for what a book is worth. Everything, by that logic, would keep spiraling upward. I'm not saying that you personally are saying that, but rather that it seems to be a commonly held viewpoint in the hobby.

Sure, but GPA gives you the last sale, a 90 day average, and a one-year average. I'm not saying it's a be-all end-all, but it's much better than the OPG.

[Frisco Larson]

So it's just a free-for-all?

 

How do I value my collection? If they guide says I've got say 200k worth of books, does that mean I should insure them for 2 million?

 

And let's not pretend ... and I'll tread lightly here since I'm pretty sure you're a dealer, but that Overstreet is not the first thing you or another dealer would go grabbing for when it's time to make someone an offer on their book or collection. You know ... well this book guides for $24 (look here, see) but you know it's a common book, and I need to make some money, I'll give you .... I promise your next words are not gonna be $250!

 

There is up-to-the-minute sales results available on-line (GPA, past auction house results etc) that are a much more accurate reflection on what collectors are paying. The Overstreet is all over the place in terms of being way too high, a little too high, pretty close, a little to low, way too low etc on many of the books listed in it. (And that's no disrespect to the Guide, there is just no way it can be anywhere near as accurate as actual sales results.

 

True, but actual sales results are skewed by the circumstances that surround each individual sale. Would a book sell for more to a collector needing it to fill a run rather than it being bought by a random collector?? I say: most of the time, YES!! I take issue with the idea that each sale sets a new benchmark for what a book is worth. Everything, by that logic, would keep spiraling upward. I'm not saying that you personally are saying that, but rather that it seems to be a commonly held viewpoint in the hobby.

Sure, but GPA gives you the last sale, a 90 day average, and a one-year average.

 

Your point is very valid (thumbs u It's just frustrating when a book has an isolated high spiking sale and now everyone bases their price off of that sale

[mrmyst]

Ah, so you mean that dealers will point to that high sale, and price accordingly. I getcha.

[jimbo_707]

There are a lot of greedy people out there who think every book they own is a gem. (Not just on E-Bay - ComicLink, Comic Connect, and Heritage all have quite a few books with BIN prices that are WAY above fair market value.) Be patient. Chances are, if some dupe overpays for one of those books, it will end up selling at auction later for about half the price.

[Frisco Larson]

Yeah, that's my only issue with it. Other than that, it's a very helpful tool (thumbs u

[GoldenPRGuy]

Be patient. Chances are, if some dupe overpays for one of those books, it will end up selling at auction later for about half the price.

 

You know what Jimbo, I'd like to believe that might happen, but watching these auctions for as long as I have (sure you all have too) I just don't see it. People seem content to re-list and re-list until the cows come home, and maybe just maybe they will take a PM offer and sell it for less, but I have yet to see a book go for significantly less money than it did in the past.

 

I'm sure you've seen that feature for CGC'd books on HA that shows the history of a books sale and resale through them. Admittedly, I'm very Archie/MLJ focused, but have you really seen books go down in price on a resale ... I haven't.

 

As for patience, I've got nothing but time. After 30 years of collecting, I don't know what I'd do with myself when I fill the remaining holes in my collection!

[mrmyst]

Be patient. Chances are, if some dupe overpays for one of those books, it will end up selling at auction later for about half the price.

 

You know what Jimbo, I'd like to believe that might happen, but watching these auctions for as long as I have (sure you all have too) I just don't see it. People seem content to re-list and re-list until the cows come home, and maybe just maybe they will take a PM offer and sell it for less, but I have yet to see a book go for significantly less money than it did in the past.

 

I'm sure you've seen that feature for CGC'd books on HA that shows the history of a books sale and resale through them. Admittedly, I'm very Archie/MLJ focused, but have you really seen books go down in price on a resale ... I haven't.

 

As for patience, I've got nothing but time. After 30 years of collecting, I don't know what I'd do with myself when I fill the remaining holes in my collection!

 

One word: Billybooks

[GoldenPRGuy]

One word: Billybooks

 

Come again?

[lotemo]

Here's my favorite yet:

 

Life With Archie 176

 

This book is worth $24! Who in their right mind slabs a LWA 176 … clearly the same guy that puts it on eBay for $250.

 

BTW, I don't mean to single these people out, it's just three listings that instantly met my criteria.

 

But according to the description, this book is a major key for Archie collectors because it introduces Captain Archie of Starship Riverdale and Stella the Robot. I've been collecting Archies since I was a kid in 1970 and I never heard of this as a key, major or minor.

 

I remember learning about "puffing" back in a marketing class and this is a prime example.

 

[shrunkenhead]

One word: Billybooks

 

Come again?

 

The billy Wright pedigree. Flippers got served last year.

[GoldenPRGuy]

Absolutely amazing. A major key??? There are 9 copies of this book on eBay right now, all in mid-high grades. Do people like this just make things up as they go along?

 

I have 5 copies of this book all in NM. Who wants one?? I'll cut you a deal, how about $100 off this shyster's price. )

[jimbo_707]

Be patient. Chances are, if some dupe overpays for one of those books, it will end up selling at auction later for about half the price.

 

I'm sure you've seen that feature for CGC'd books on HA that shows the history of a books sale and resale through them. Admittedly, I'm very Archie/MLJ focused, but have you really seen books go down in price on a resale ... I haven't.

!

 

Here is one example (you do have to log into Heritage to see the prices):

Green Lantern 26, Church copy, sold for $10,755.00 August 2007

http://comics.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=825&lotNo=44249

 

Same copy, sold for only $7.468.75 August 2010

http://comics.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7023&lotNo=91148

 

Same copy, sold for only $3,600 on Comic Connect, December 2012

http://www.comicconnect.com/bookDetail.php?id=477752

 

 

Another example is the Vancouver copy of Namora #1

Originally sold for $13,800.00 January, 2006

http://comics.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=819&lotNo=2432

 

Later sold for only $7,767.50 February 2009

http://comics.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7002&lotNo=91179#Photo

[G.A.tor]

So it's just a free-for-all?

 

How do I value my collection? If they guide says I've got say 200k worth of books, does that mean I should insure them for 2 million?

 

And let's not pretend ... and I'll tread lightly here since I'm pretty sure you're a dealer, but that Overstreet is not the first thing you or another dealer would go grabbing for when it's time to make someone an offer on their book or collection. You know ... well this book guides for $24 (look here, see) but you know it's a common book, and I need to make some money, I'll give you .... I promise your next words are not gonna be $250!

to clarify, I am a collector first, and I do "deal" in comics second...

in most instances, whether I am buying or selling, the guide is not relevant to me...

 

I just paid $9K for a book that "guides" for $500...so, please don't tell me how I buy or sell (and don't make a promise you surely can't keep) (thumbs u

[G.A.tor]

The price guide is , in general, a pricing component of the past. It is just not accurate or relevant the majority of the time these days.

 

Probably true my friend, but just because some impatient collector with an excess in the wallet pays whatever it takes to get a book, then that sale it "recorded" on someones website, doesn't mean that ALL of the copies of that book have been elevated to that percentage level!!! This type of rational is doing more harm than good to this hobby

I agree...one sale (at either end of the spectrum) surely should not be used to establish a pricing trend... but, multiple sales (if available) should...and those multiple sales are not tracked or accurately reported in OSPG (and as an OSPG advisor, we all I know I support the book, but I support it as a tool of information, not as a pricing "guide"....well, at least not most of the time)...

 

I buy relative to what I sell at...or I sell at relative to what I buy at...goes both ways

[G.A.tor]

So it's just a free-for-all?

 

How do I value my collection? If they guide says I've got say 200k worth of books, does that mean I should insure them for 2 million?

 

 

Your best bet is to regularly track auction prices or use GPA's service to have easy access to the numbers when it comes FMV.

 

It is a time-intensive process, but no price guide can ever serve as an actual indicator of what an item is "worth."

good point... if you have common stuff, chances are the guide is overpriced relative to value... if you have rare or high demand books, then the guide is very likely under valued, relative to what the market will bear...

 

to answer your question, you have to work at evaluating your collection...you have to pay attention, you have to research, you have to use the tools at your disposal, and then you have to "guess"...because a collection is really only worth what someone else will pay you for it, regardless...

[shrunkenhead]

I just paid $9K for a book that "guides" for $500...so, please don't tell me how I buy or sell (and don't make a promise you surely can't keep) (thumbs u

 

This must be a cool book, whatever it is...

[G.A.tor]

I just paid $9K for a book that "guides" for $500...so, please don't tell me how I buy or sell (and don't make a promise you surely can't keep) (thumbs u

 

This must be a cool book, whatever it is...

to be completely fair the book guides for $750 but my point is the same

 

 

[GoldenPRGuy]

Sorry G.A.tor, but I stand by most of what I said. I'm sorry if I offended you by lumping you in with other dealers ... I think it's great that you're a collector first, and while I don't get paying 9k for a $750 book, to each their own! That said, my rant is not about you, it's about the complete foolishness that's going on with pricing $20 books at $250, or $100 books at $1,000. It's either complete ignorance on the part of the seller, or worse, someone who has no compunction whatsoever about ripping people off (exp. the "rare" Life with Archie #176). Finally, and awesome that you don't do it, but it's about people pretending the guide doesn't exist when you're buying from them but suddenly quoting it like it's the gospel when it suits them!

 

I for one have always loved collecting, the hunt, the find, the barter, and the completion of a run, it's exciting! And I get "Caveat Emptor", but it's hard for me to see what I always considered a respectable hobby tarnished by a select few.

 

Who knows, maybe I had it wrong all along.

[shrunkenhead]

Sorry G.A.tor, but I stand by most of what I said. I'm sorry if I offended you by lumping you in with other dealers ... I think it's great that you're a collector first, and while I don't get paying 9k for a $750 book, to each their own!

 

No disrespect, but I think you're missing the point here. It's not a $750 book, it's a 9k book. We know that because somebody paid that price. That's the only existing marker of value that is ultimately of any significance, and even that is nebulous and completely malleable.

 

Comics aren't like bonds. You don't get to take them to Bank of America and just cash 'em in. You need to find a buyer, negotiate, etc. It's time consuming, and there is no guarantee that you will break even, let alone make a profit. To say that you have a "$24 book" is an utterly meaningless designation. To be angry that somebody is charging $200 for a book that you're sure is worth $24 is equally meaningless. If nobody buys the book at $200, then you were right. If not, you were wrong.