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RANT: Whatever the market will bear or frustrating BS?

Started by GoldenPRGuy,

79 posts in this topic

G.A.tor

G.A.tor

Posted
Posted
Ultimately the bottom line is a book is only worth what someone will pay.

 

Pre-Internet /instant Information Age , absolutely the ospg was at least the starting point from which comics were bought and sold. It was a generic standard for the time. But we now are in an Era where info is widely available at the touch of a finger...to soley rely on an annually printed price guide is (and I say this with the utmost respect intended for my fellow collectors) a naive approach. It is antiquated reactive vs instant proactive. In other words the guide is a great tool but should not be the basis of any accurate evaluation these days.

 

I spent over an hour talking with bob about this a few years ago, going so far as to offer to spearhead an online guide and bob had no interest in it at all. He is old school and that is fine.

 

But we have a myriad of pricing info at our disposal these days... And for the majority of actively traded comics, the guide is just not accurate or relevant. Simple as that and through education folks will realize this (thumbs u

 

 

Still... that is a factor of the OSPG specifically, and does not have to hold true for a printed guide. OSPG always had an agenda that included very specific intentions to "slowly and steadily" influence the marketplace in one direction. An unbiased guide, however, should only report the facts.

 

I have no doubt that if I had the time (ie, weren't tied down with running a shop) I could put together a quite accurate Guide, single-handedly, within a year or two. Now, as a caveat, like OSPG, I would not attempt to list prices above the, say, 9.4 level (most of the real volatility is above that grade). Also, I believe a proper guide now needs to list all of the issues individually... there are so many differences from one to another that lumping big runs together no longer seems relevent. With that in mind, to save space... anything that can't bring $10 in "NM" shouldn't be listed in a "collectibles" guide. And I would remove standardized price spreads.

 

No book can keep up with everything, I agree... but I think I could hit a 90%-95% accuracy rate in any given year.

really? actual sales don't even come close to hitting that mark for a majority of titles...how would an annual printed catalog duplicate what real time can't (just curious...maybe I am mis interpreting your statement)
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Bookery

Bookery

Posted
Posted

No book can keep up with everything, I agree... but I think I could hit a 90%-95% accuracy rate in any given year.

really? actual sales don't even come close to hitting that mark for a majority of titles...how would an annual printed catalog duplicate what real time can't (just curious...maybe I am mis interpreting your statement)

 

Yeah... I'm a bit vague here, I guess. Obviously, no price on anything is written in stone. But one can come up with a "reasonable average". On the book you bought, you mentioned the auction estimate was something like $7000 - $9000. A reasonable Guide value might be anywhere inbetween there... maybe $8,000. At a given auction it might go for more or less, depending on the needs of the bidders. But clearly $750 is not in the ballpark, and could cause an unsuspecting seller to lose serious money in a transaction.

 

Likewise there are plenty of $20 books in OSPG that can easily be had for $5 or $10, regularly.

 

Even on a "hot" book, most of the below-9.4 values have been pretty well established in the past 5-10 years by auctions and internet sales, within a spread of 10%-20% one way or another. Exceptions can be a recently-released movie changing the game, or new popularity of a previously obscure character. And of course, there are books so rare they only come up for sale every few years such that they are difficult to gauge. But that falls into the 5%-10% I mentioned.

 

I'm working on a major price guide right now (not comics or pulps), and if I believed I couldn't hit a 90+% "reasonableness" factor, I wouldn't do it.

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zosocane

zosocane

Posted
Posted

I too get frustrated with wildly-priced "Buy It Now" options on books that I believe to be outside the zone of reasonableness. This is similar to my frustration with certain dealers at shows that quote -- in my mind -- ridiculous numbers after I inquire about a book perched up on the dealer's wall. But maybe that's what separates the more market-educated collectors from the less market-educated collectors. These sellers have a right to ask what they want to ask. Some have been doing it a long, long time. They might be in no hurry to move the inventory and can wait years for that one buyer to "hit" the "buy it now" button.

 

Ultimately, what a ready, willing and able buyer (free of incapacity and duress) pays is what something is worth. Look at Steve Wynn's sale just last week of a Picasso for $150+ million. There was no GPA-type data before this sale took place. This was a one-of-a-kind work that one deep-pocketed buyer just had to have. (The buyer tried to purchase the same work from the same seller a few years earlier at a lower price and the deal fell through after the seller accidentally ripped a portion of the painting; the work subsequently was restored and still fetched several million more.) Wynn essentially had his "buy it now" price out there and that one buyer hit it.

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dgarthwaite-migration

dgarthwaite-migration

Posted
Posted
I often want to send them messages that say, "What are you thinking?!?!?!".

 

Actually have done this, and it's amazing the kind of replies I get, everything from 'thanks for your opinion' to fantastic yarns about why they are being sold for so much. Seriously ... you just bought them at auction on HA last week and now you're listing them at 10x. One guy even argued that it was not the same book ... I uploaded the CGC number. We're not dumb people!

 

I hate those kind of listings. Mainly because I've pulled the trigger once or twice when drunk. :blush:

 

I've got one of those under my belt as well. haha :frustrated:

 

You've both just explained it. The seller is looking for whoever will pay the most, not what the going rate "should be". Sometimes you pay extra for the convenience of having it listed when you want to buy it. Is it frustrating? Sure, but it just makes me search harder for a deal.

 

DG

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Straw-Man

Straw-Man

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Posted

oh, the money you'll make on this one once the movie comes out. about 30X high-guide.

 

http://www.comiclink.com/itemdetail.asp?back=%2Fsearch%5Fadv%2Easp%3Fall%3Dy%26TITLE%3D%26TITLEOPT%3DALL%26ISSUE%3D%26Condition%3D%26ConditionTo%3D%26CensusRank%3D%26Pedigree%3D%26PRICEF%3D%26PRICET%3D%26DESCRIPTION%3D%26DESCRIPTIONOPT%3DALL%26SearchRemarks%3D%26SearchCGC%3D%26EXCLUDE%3D%26CATEGORIES%3D%2D1%26WCATEGORIES%3D%2D1%26SORT%3DNEW%26%5Fwhere%5Fforsale%3Dy%26%5Fwhere%5Fauctions%3Dy%26x%3D26%26y%3D10%26where%5Fforsale%3Dy&id=966822

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Bookery

Bookery

Posted
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Generally, I just shrug off the uber-priced stuff... as has been stated, the sellers can ask whatever they want. If you think eBay is bad... check out ABE Books some time. There isn't hardly a title on there where there isn't at least one insanely ludicrous price. If a book has 20 sellers offering it for $20, plus a few outliers at say, $10, $15, $35, and a $50. There will always be at least one guy offering his copy up for $350! I've always wondered how this is good policy... to consistently list even common stuff at 10x the rate of your competitors. And on ABE, there's no chance someone is going to buy your copy not knowing what it's worth... since everybody else's is listed right next to yours!

 

The one BIG problem I have with outlandish pricing on eBay is that, as a dealer, it makes it extremely difficult to buy collections today. Nearly every seller who comes in now quotes one of these fanciful prices they saw on eBay with the admonition to me that they "know what this book is worth!". I had a woman last year come in with a bunch of mid-70s books that would price in the $2 - $10 range each, quoting one price after another in the hundreds of dollars, because she "saw it on the internet". Eventually, these folks will learn how misguided they are, but they are now too embarrassed to bring the books back to me.

 

I used to be able to buy 9 out of 10 collections that walked in the door... now it's less than half precisely because of this phenomenon.

 

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Foxtrot70

Foxtrot70

Posted
Posted
Generally, I just shrug off the uber-priced stuff... as has been stated, the sellers can ask whatever they want. If you think eBay is bad... check out ABE Books some time. There isn't hardly a title on there where there isn't at least one insanely ludicrous price. If a book has 20 sellers offering it for $20, plus a few outliers at say, $10, $15, $35, and a $50. There will always be at least one guy offering his copy up for $350! I've always wondered how this is good policy... to consistently list even common stuff at 10x the rate of your competitors. And on ABE, there's no chance someone is going to buy your copy not knowing what it's worth... since everybody else's is listed right next to yours!

 

The one BIG problem I have with outlandish pricing on eBay is that, as a dealer, it makes it extremely difficult to buy collections today. Nearly every seller who comes in now quotes one of these fanciful prices they saw on eBay with the admonition to me that they "know what this book is worth!". I had a woman last year come in with a bunch of mid-70s books that would price in the $2 - $10 range each, quoting one price after another in the hundreds of dollars, because she "saw it on the internet". Eventually, these folks will learn how misguided they are, but they are now too embarrassed to bring the books back to me.

 

I used to be able to buy 9 out of 10 collections that walked in the door... now it's less than half precisely because of this phenomenon.

 

I believe others also feel your pain. I was in my LCS last week and some fellow was debating price w the owner trying to use Ebay "listed" values as footnote vs sold values.

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jimbo_707

jimbo_707

Posted
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That is a high price. But occasionally you find a rare gem that's bargain-priced on ComicLink. Wish I had the coin for this sweet book.

http://www.comiclink.com/itemdetail.asp?back=%2Fsearch%5Fadv%2Easp%3Fall%3Dy%26TITLE%3D%26TITLEOPT%3DALL%26ISSUE%3D%26Condition%3D07%2E0%26ConditionTo%3D%26CGC%3DYES%26CensusRank%3D%26SearchPageQuality%3DWhite%2BPages%26Pedigree%3D%5FALL%26PRICEF%3D500%26PRICET%3D5000%26DESCRIPTION%3D%26DESCRIPTIONOPT%3DALL%26SearchRemarks%3D%26SearchCGC%3D%26EXCLUDE%3D%26CATEGORIES%3D%2D1%26WCATEGORIES%3D%2D1%26SORT%3DCATEG%26%5Fwhere%5Fforsale%3Dy%26%5Fwhere%5Fauctions%3Dy%26ExcludeSP%3Dy%26x%3D28%26y%3D4%26where%5Fforsale%3Dy%26pg%3D2&id=856839

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rjpb

rjpb

Posted
Posted

Getting peeved over high asking prices on ebay is a pointless activity. There are endless examples in all genres, and it gets worse when there aren't a dozen copies available. When Harley Yee's Timely's look cheap compared to most of the ebay BINs for the publisher, then you know overpricing is the norm.

 

The cost for listing this stuff is negligible to non-existant, so many of these sellers seem content to relist endlessly until they get an offer they can accept or the market catches up with their price.

 

What I find a bit mind-boggling is that one can pull up completed auctions for random Silver to Copper age books where there are at least ten copies available on line at any one time, and there will almost always be one copy that was BINned at twice the price of better copies still listed.

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shrunkenhead

shrunkenhead

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Posted

 

What I find a bit mind-boggling is that one can pull up completed auctions for random Silver to Copper age books where there are at least ten copies available on line at any one time, and there will almost always be one copy that was BINned at twice the price of better copies still listed.

 

I sell a lot of stuff on Amazon and I'm not always the cheapest seller on the block. But still, folks do pull the trigger on my stock. I find this is usually done by repeat buyers who are paying extra for the assurance that they will be getting what they pay for.

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Gatsby77

Gatsby77

Posted
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i feel the OP's pain, in that I collect several 1940s humor titles (i.e. slabbed Sparkler, Tip Top, Mutt and Jeff) and they rarely come up for aucton-style sale on eBay. Rather, they sit at BIN's for 2-4x market value usually the last sale of that very copy as recorded by GPA or Comiclink. And continues to sit for 9 months or more.

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ComicConnoisseur

ComicConnoisseur

Posted
Posted
With that in mind, to save space... anything that can't bring $10 in "NM" shouldn't be listed in a "collectibles" guide.

 

 

That's an excellent place to start. (thumbs u

Especially 90 percent of post- 1980 comic books.

I doubt they would do that, as that would kill the illusion that most new comic books you buy at the lcs will go up in collector`s value. I don`t imagine that they would ever list modern comic books that have a cover price of $3.99 being only worth .10 cents in the guide. It will never happen. It would ruin the game.

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Kahnadah

Kahnadah

Posted
Posted
So if anyone gets offered Timelys from little old ladies at a buck apiece, back off. Or, tell her they are woth $2,000 each. Come on.

 

I'd tell her/them, and probably help her/them get as much $$$ for them as is possible. I need to be able to like the person I see in the mirror each morning! :)

 

*NOOB OPINION ALERT* Ignore at your leisure! ;)

 

I pay what I think it fair for a comic. I'll never own a Crime SuspenStories #22 because I can't see paying so much for a cover (even a cool decap such as this!), but I paid £190 for a Pence Price Variant of UXM #129 in approx 9.5 because I wanted it!

 

I always filter out Buy-It-Now auctions, because if they're at a price I'd be happy to pay, I'd never get tot see them! Sellers on eBay or here are free to ask what they want...just as I'm free to not buy. As a personal thing, I never comment that I think something is too costly. After all, it's really just too pricey for me!

 

I used to collect hockey cards and I was constantly fuming at the mercenary way they were being sold. Trading was pointless, because my 1/1 was ALWAYS "worth" less than the other guys 1/1. It ate at me so much that I gave up collecting.

 

I'm much happier collecting now, because I have given myself one rule: Never pay more than you're happy with, and live with it if you can't get what you want because of it. Value is an artificial construct, something that means different things to different people.

 

James

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adamstrange

adamstrange

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Posted

Never pay more than you're happy with, and live with it if you can't get what you want because of it.

Wise words (thumbs u

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