Fantastic Four reboot is already screwed up...

[Bosco685]

& Silver Surfer? What color?

 

The new multi-color palette, so he brings joy across the world.

 

 

Destruction too. But let's ignore that for right now to keep the crowd positive.

[THE_BEYONDER]

& Silver Surfer? What color?

Who cares? As long as he surfs....

[Crimebuster]

There is not enough face to palm for this thread.

[Marvelfangirl]

There is not enough face to palm for this thread.

Agreed

[Bosco685]

There is not enough face to palm for this thread.

Agreed

 

What did you two do this time?

 

[Marvelfangirl]

There is not enough face to palm for this thread.

Agreed

 

What did you two do this time?

 

 

I already made my post about the subject,I'm staying out of this fight

[ChrisInBaltimore]

There is not enough face to palm for this thread.

Agreed

 

What did you two do this time?

 

 

I already made my post about the subject,I'm staying out of this fight

 

Honestly, I think people are quick to call people racist. While there is some questionable comments in the thread, I feel like the conversation has remained fairly mature.

[Bosco685]

There is not enough face to palm for this thread.

Agreed

 

What did you two do this time?

 

 

I already made my post about the subject,I'm staying out of this fight

 

 

A discussion like this doesn't have to end in a fight. There have been a few misunderstandings about history and mythology (e.g. no black surgeons before 1940; Heimdall is a shapeshifter and Odin's son). But overall, it's fairly harmless.

 

The only thing that was out of control is someone being called a racist because they felt traditional caucasian characters shouldn't be changed just to appeal to a larger market. Tradition is tradition, and not to be messed with.

 

But a few folks have also mentioned if Stan Lee had his way, we most probably would have seen a more culturally diverse cast of characters coming out of the 60s and early 70s from Marvel. So what's the harm if a change makes sense?

 

[ChrisInBaltimore]

But a few folks have also mentioned if Stan Lee had his way, we most probably would have seen a more culturally diverse cast of characters coming out of the 60s and early 70s from Marvel. So what's the harm if a change makes sense?

 

 

Reading some Lee's later ASM run recently, I was amazed how much he pushed the race issue. Robbie Robertson and what not. Even placing Robbie at the Daily Bugle in the 60s was way ahead of its time. Pretty incredible stuff really.

[slym2none]

 

But a few folks have also mentioned if Stan Lee had his way, we most probably would have seen a more culturally diverse cast of characters coming out of the 60s and early 70s from Marvel. So what's the harm if a change makes sense?

 

 

Objection - hearsay.

 

 

 

-slym

[Bosco685]

 

But a few folks have also mentioned if Stan Lee had his way, we most probably would have seen a more culturally diverse cast of characters coming out of the 60s and early 70s from Marvel. So what's the harm if a change makes sense?

 

 

Objection - hearsay.

 

 

 

-slym

 

 

You're right in that we all can dream up what we think could have happened. If it didn't happen, then those are the facts.

 

But I bet he wanted to go further, just from hearing over the years what he felt was important and impactful coming out of comics.

[slym2none]

Pardons - just got through with a 2-day reading marathon of the first three books of the "Star Wars: Rogue Squadron" series, and the 3rd book is largely a trial scene. I guess I have some of the lawyer-ly throught processes running through my head.

 

 

 

 

-slym

[Logan510]

"Thor - Norse god - He's got to be Scandinavian I think? "

 

Is Heimdall Scandinavian? Apparently the movie makers didn't think so.

Only the noble lines were Norse gods.

Not every citizen of Asgard is a Norse god.

Or would Volstagg be the god of.... gluttony?

 

An Aesir shapeshifter.

 

That's why his look in the movie works fine for me. (thumbs u

 

An Aesir shapeshifter? Is that something they did in the modern comics, because that is not what he was originally based on?

 

Falstaff

 

I'm talking about Heimdall.

 

You shouldn't have to jump through those kinds of hoops to justify a bad miscasting.

 

Take a breather for a moment and you will realize his brevity wasn't leading to what he was trying to talk about. One moment, someone is talking about Volstagg, and the next thing he is meaning Heimdall.

 

But bad miscasting or not (which is your opinion), even the description was incorrect. Heimdall is not known in Norse mythology to be Odin's son.

 

See - back off from the movie beatdown and you learn some things.

 

 

I already knew that and it was miscasting. That's a fact, not an opinion. Did he do a good job in his minor role? Yes. Still miscast in the role.

[miraclemet]

 

A discussion like this doesn't have to end in a fight. There have been a few misunderstandings about history and mythology (e.g. no black surgeons before 1940; Heimdall is a shapeshifter and Odin's son). But overall, it's fairly harmless.

 

The only thing that was out of control is someone being called a racist because they felt traditional caucasian characters shouldn't be changed just to appeal to a larger market. Tradition is tradition, and not to be messed with.

 

I definitely took my point too far in saying "someone making the argument that in a role where race is not a key factor of plot that the race of an actor is important and therefore thinks actors of one race are better suited for the role over actors of another race is playing in the grey area of racism. "

 

was mostly just trying to have a good debate, and took this side.... I've already attempted to apologize to one person who (fairly) felt my statement was tantamount to calling him racist.

 

I think Dr Ball's made a good point regarding adherence to continuity and this was a matter of general continuity vs anything specific to race.

 

I also think one could argue that in a visual medium like comic books visual continuity off all types is important for central characters (thus why people complain about costumes, appearances, castings, Galactus being a cloud, etc) as opposed to non-comic book source material where there's more interpretation of visuals by the reader.

 

Anyway I made my private apology, but since there were still some comments about people being called racist (or more accurately that their arguments entered a grey area of racism) I thought I'd extend the olive branch publicly as well.

 

Bosco, have you read Marvel Comics the Untold Story? While its somewhat slanted against Stan Lee (in terms of Kirby, and Lee's general pomposity) its a pretty frank look at Marvel thru the years, and I seem to recall that the the general impression was that Stan always viewed his comic book's diversity as part of marketing. So maybe he was just ahead of the game that the Studios might be playing 30 years later.

 

[i'd still be really interested to see a fine actor like Michael B Jordan's take on the Human Torch, that is all]

[Bosco685]

I think Dr Ball's made a good point regarding adherence to continuity and this was a matter of general continuity vs anything specific to race.

 

 

Sorry. I just picture once in a while any of us having to share our day, and when asked what was the most important item you heard that day the follow-up is, "Well dear, Doctor Ball's said ..."

 

 

 

Bosco, have you read Marvel Comics the Untold Story? While its somewhat slanted against Stan Lee (in terms of Kirby, and Lee's general pomposity) its a pretty frank look at Marvel thru the years, and I seem to recall that the the general impression was that Stan always viewed his comic book's diversity as part of marketing. So maybe he was just ahead of the game that the Studios might be playing 30 years later.

 

I do need to get a copy of this book. Folks that have posted on here seem to be quite impressed with the level of research used.

 

Being an "idea guy", I can see Stan Lee making a statement about how culture also plays into marketing. But I can also see him using these comics to make a statement as well.

[miraclemet]

I think Dr Ball's made a good point regarding adherence to continuity and this was a matter of general continuity vs anything specific to race.

 

 

Sorry. I just picture once in a while any of us having to share our day, and when asked what was the most important item you heard that day the follow-up is, "Well dear, Doctor Ball's said ..."

 

 

 

[CR]

Pardons - just got through with a 2-day reading marathon of the first three books of the "Star Wars: Rogue Squadron" series, and the 3rd book is largely a trial scene. I guess I have some of the lawyer-ly throught processes running through my head.

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

You read three books in two days?

 

I'm not comfortable with your literacy. Burn the witch!

[slym2none]

 

 

 

 

-slym

[TupennyConan]

Nothing more morbidly entertaining than the combination of indignant, uptight, fanboy butthurt & racism.

[ChrisInBaltimore]

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

Don't worry- we won't burn you. I wish I could read like that. I've always hated how slow of a reader I am. It is why A Song of Ice and Fire books are a bit much for me. They take me FORVER to read.