Fantastic Four reboot is already screwed up...

[ChicksCosmiComics]

I just want a good movie with solid plot development, and character development. Not 5 minutes in space and we now have superpowers. Plus on top of that I want a bump for my FF#1 so it better not suck ain't nobody got time fo that

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

I agree with all of that - and that's the frustrating part about this whole thread: there isn't a right or wrong way to look at it, just different perspectives.

 

Jason, are you channeling Roy?

[Prince Namor]

By getting Millar and Trank involved in this, FOX is essentially saying, "We need people who understand this to be a part of making it", which is a good thing.

Yes, there is a RUMOR of casting a black actor as Johnny Storm.

Hasn't been done yet.

But boy, it sure does get people talking about the Fantastic Four reboot before it's even cast. Brilliant.

 

My impression is that they are viewing this as a possible longer term franchise like the X-Men, except, let's face it, right now, or over the last 20 years, the FF are not as popular as the X-Men.

So they have to build something.

 

You're not going to start off with an X-Men First Class type of movie, because the general audience isn't as invested in the characters as they are the X-Men.

You can't do the Hickman stuff, because that's still Marvel's.

 

So you have to do something contemporary of your own, that'll pull more people in than just comic book fans. Throw some feelers out there. Get people talking about it.

Start building excitement and scuttlebutt now.

Can you imagine at some point crossing over these two franchise's?

Millar knows what he's doing.

I may not agree with every decision he makes along the way, but I feel this is in better hands than it's ever been.

[kimik]

Fox should just focus on the X-Men franchise and potential spin-offs and let the rights to the FF lapse. It was a property designed/developed for a different time that does not work as well now. Maybe bringing it into the Marvel Studios fold could help to revive it as they have turned some other properties like Thor into big winners at the box office, but it would be more difficult. I am curious to see how well Ant-Man, GotG and The Black Panther work for Marvel as feature films. My guess is that those properties will struggle just like FF.

[sckao]

The ORIGINAL Men in Black comic had two Caucasian Agents. The movie changed it and no one cared. Still an enjoyable movie IMO.

 

The original Omega Man has Charlton Heston. The sequel had Will Smith. Not too many complaints about the casting there either...

 

When Alicia in the Fantastic Four was cast, that kind of implied the Puppet Master was also African-American (or that she was adopted).

 

Since Loki is adopted, they probably don't want to trot that out there too often in the Marvel cinematic universe.

 

Many people who are not familiar with comics but watch the cartoons actually think John Stewart is the Green Lantern of Earth.

 

 

 

[Logan510]

The criticism isn't race driven, it's canon adherance.

 

I'm waiting for someone to say that changing the Human Torch's skin tone is like raping their childhood!

 

I'd love someone to go that far... someone about 20 pages back asked if anyone was similarly offended by the fact that Johnny's hair color in the first movies was brown rather than its canonical blond.

No one seemed to be upset about that change. And that's another "appearance" based change.

 

I'll grant you there are plenty of cannon frustrations from the comic book community (Galactus as a cloud being one), but this change (MJB as Johnny Storm) doesnt seem to fly in the face of Johnny Storm's "attitude" (to quote Dr Balls as part of the important makeup of the casting) which I'm assuming means characterization, so if MJB has the best characterization of the role, why not give it to him?

 

As others said Morgan Freeman took a pretty good turn as Red in Shawshank (great call of a casting regardless of the source material), because for the content of the movie Red's race was not central to the plot (from what I can recall), much like Johnny's race is not central to the plot.

 

Now if Johnny's origins were steeped in his European background (like Magneto's) I would agree that something might be lost if that aspect of the character has to be changed jettisoned, but since that's not the case, and Johnny's ethnicity/race are irrelevant to the story of the modern Fantastic Four (obviously when the original story was written in the 50s it would have been very relavant), it shouldnt matter the color of the Human Torch's skin.

 

And if you have a problem with it being a modernization of the F4, then your list of complaints is much much longer than just a casting decision.

 

No one answered it because it's a dumb, redundant question and at least for me it goes without saying.

[RockMyAmadeus]

[Logan510]

The ORIGINAL Men in Black comic had two Caucasian Agents. The movie changed it and no one cared. Still an enjoyable movie IMO.

 

The original Omega Man has Charlton Heston. The sequel had Will Smith. Not too many complaints about the casting there either...

 

When Alicia in the Fantastic Four was cast, that kind of implied the Puppet Master was also African-American (or that she was adopted).

 

Since Loki is adopted, they probably don't want to trot that out there too often in the Marvel cinematic universe.

 

Many people who are not familiar with comics but watch the cartoons actually think John Stewart is the Green Lantern of Earth.

 

 

 

I don't expect people who aren't familiar with the characters to care much either way. I would bet hard money you could throw a stone into a crowd of people and not hit one person who has read I Am Legend by Richard Matheson...or would even care.

 

As someone who does have an emotional investment in these characters I do care. I don't know what surprises me more...that a board full of alleged comicbook fans don't care at all, or that people who do are being labeled as racists.

[Kal-El]

As long as they cast a good actor, which by all accounts Michael B. Jordan is, I have no problem with it. (thumbs u

(thumbs u

 

 

(thumbs u , I would really enjoy seeing him portray The Human Torch.

[Dr. Balls]

The criticism isn't race driven, it's canon adherance.

 

I'm waiting for someone to say that changing the Human Torch's skin tone is like raping their childhood!

 

I'd love someone to go that far... someone about 20 pages back asked if anyone was similarly offended by the fact that Johnny's hair color in the first movies was brown rather than its canonical blond.

 

No one seemed to be upset about that change. And that's another "appearance" based change.

 

I'll grant you there are plenty of cannon frustrations from the comic book community (Galactus as a cloud being one), but this change (MJB as Johnny Storm) doesnt seem to fly in the face of Johnny Storm's "attitude" (to quote Dr Balls as part of the important makeup of the casting) which I'm assuming means characterization, so if MJB has the best characterization of the role, why not give it to him?

 

As others said Morgan Freeman took a pretty good turn as Red in Shawshank (great call of a casting regardless of the source material), because for the content of the movie Red's race was not central to the plot (from what I can recall), much like Johnny's race is not central to the plot.

 

Now if Johnny's origins were steeped in his European background (like Magneto's) I would agree that something might be lost if that aspect of the character has to be changed jettisoned, but since that's not the case, and Johnny's ethnicity/race are irrelevant to the story of the modern Fantastic Four (obviously when the original story was written in the 50s it would have been very relavant), it shouldnt matter the color of the Human Torch's skin.

 

And if you have a problem with it being a modernization of the F4, then your list of complaints is much much longer than just a casting decision.

 

I agree with all of that - and that's the frustrating part about this whole thread: there isn't a right or wrong way to look at it, just different perspectives.

 

My issue is that comic books are a visual medium, and one of the defining marks of craftsmanship in a body of work is it's visual consistency and continuity. One of my biggest complaints about Marvel is their lack of originality in writing (over the span of decades) and falling back on retconning things, throwing consistency and continuity out the window just because it's easier to do.

 

Lots of people could care less if the Human Torch is a different ethinicity - however, I care because I am in a profession that relies on consistency and identity. I'm no more right or wrong than the guy who says Ice Cube would make a good Human Torch because he's got "attitude".

 

That's just my angle in this whole discussion. I prefer consistency where others might not care as much.

 

Dr B, I can appreciate your position on continuity, and I'm certain that the Studios & their IP professionals have their own opinions, which I'd love to know... What do they think they might be "giving up" if they go with an actor that does not fit (in some way shape or form) the existing continuity... I think since they are less interested in appeasing the comic book fan (or attempting to drive people to read the books) they aren't as beholden to any continuity. If it expands their brand and better penetrates target markets, they will do it. I just want them to do it well with good actors, and good story.

 

I can see that side as well - that's why I wanted to agree with your post. I didn't want to come across insinuating that my perspective was the right one - it's just what I think is important in the products I support. Other people have other views on how they support their favorite product.

 

I believe that whatever stance the studio has for whichever actor they choose is purely based on their belief that it will generate them revenue to do it in the way they deem fit. I don't think racism or diversity plays any part in their decision-making - it's purely financial.

[Prince Namor]

The criticism isn't race driven, it's canon adherance.

 

I'm waiting for someone to say that changing the Human Torch's skin tone is like raping their childhood!

 

I'd love someone to go that far... someone about 20 pages back asked if anyone was similarly offended by the fact that Johnny's hair color in the first movies was brown rather than its canonical blond.

 

No one seemed to be upset about that change. And that's another "appearance" based change.

 

I'll grant you there are plenty of cannon frustrations from the comic book community (Galactus as a cloud being one), but this change (MJB as Johnny Storm) doesnt seem to fly in the face of Johnny Storm's "attitude" (to quote Dr Balls as part of the important makeup of the casting) which I'm assuming means characterization, so if MJB has the best characterization of the role, why not give it to him?

 

As others said Morgan Freeman took a pretty good turn as Red in Shawshank (great call of a casting regardless of the source material), because for the content of the movie Red's race was not central to the plot (from what I can recall), much like Johnny's race is not central to the plot.

 

Now if Johnny's origins were steeped in his European background (like Magneto's) I would agree that something might be lost if that aspect of the character has to be changed jettisoned, but since that's not the case, and Johnny's ethnicity/race are irrelevant to the story of the modern Fantastic Four (obviously when the original story was written in the 50s it would have been very relavant), it shouldnt matter the color of the Human Torch's skin.

 

And if you have a problem with it being a modernization of the F4, then your list of complaints is much much longer than just a casting decision.

 

I agree with all of that - and that's the frustrating part about this whole thread: there isn't a right or wrong way to look at it, just different perspectives.

 

My issue is that comic books are a visual medium, and one of the defining marks of craftsmanship in a body of work is it's visual consistency and continuity. One of my biggest complaints about Marvel is their lack of originality in writing (over the span of decades) and falling back on retconning things, throwing consistency and continuity out the window just because it's easier to do.

 

Lots of people could care less if the Human Torch is a different ethinicity - however, I care because I am in a profession that relies on consistency and identity. I'm no more right or wrong than the guy who says Ice Cube would make a good Human Torch because he's got "attitude".

 

That's just my angle in this whole discussion. I prefer consistency where others might not care as much.

 

Dr B, I can appreciate your position on continuity, and I'm certain that the Studios & their IP professionals have their own opinions, which I'd love to know... What do they think they might be "giving up" if they go with an actor that does not fit (in some way shape or form) the existing continuity... I think since they are less interested in appeasing the comic book fan (or attempting to drive people to read the books) they aren't as beholden to any continuity. If it expands their brand and better penetrates target markets, they will do it. I just want them to do it well with good actors, and good story.

 

I can see that side as well - that's why I wanted to agree with your post. I didn't want to come across insinuating that my perspective was the right one - it's just what I think is important in the products I support. Other people have other views on how they support their favorite product.

 

I believe that whatever stance the studio has for whichever actor they choose is purely based on their belief that it will generate them revenue to do it in the way they deem fit. I don't think racism or diversity plays any part in their decision-making - it's purely financial.

 

True. If people who were the color blue became all the rage, they'd include someone who was blue.

No agenda other than money.

Because ultimately the color green is what is really important to them.

[RockMyAmadeus]

via Imgflip Meme Maker

[ChrisInBaltimore]

Sorry a bit late to the party, but I wanted to reply to the below comment:

 

Because skin color is such a trivial difference. If you insist on skin color matching then you should insist on hair, eye color, height, width and shoe size. What really matters is acting ability, plot and the ability for those two things to come together.

 

See there is a bit of a problem with the first part of your statement. I love the idea that skin color holds no more significance than the color of your eyes, but it does. It represents your history and the history of your family.

 

That is where my problem comes in with this casting. If Johnny is black than Sue needs to be black. Part of what makes the FF the FF is the family dynamic of the team. If you neglect or change that than part of the dynamic is lost.

 

They could work around it, but the story would lose focus.

[Crimebuster]

See there is a bit of a problem with the first part of your statement. I love the idea that skin color holds no more significance than the color of your eyes, but it does. It represents your history and the history of your family.

 

That is where my problem comes in with this casting. If Johnny is black than Sue needs to be black. Part of what makes the FF the FF is the family dynamic of the team. If you neglect or change that than part of the dynamic is lost.

 

They could work around it, but the story would lose focus.

 

 

I still don't see the issue, though. So let's say Sue is black, or they are part of a mixed-race family. Okay. They're still a family. So how does this negatively impact the family dynamic of the FF?

[Ken Aldred]

 

Good point, Andrew. That crow is horrendously stereotypical and lazily cast, but as long as it plays its role well in the film and delivers the goods - I'm happy.

[Bosco685]

By getting Millar and Trank involved in this, FOX is essentially saying, "We need people who understand this to be a part of making it", which is a good thing.

Yes, there is a RUMOR of casting a black actor as Johnny Storm.

Hasn't been done yet.

But boy, it sure does get people talking about the Fantastic Four reboot before it's even cast. Brilliant.

 

My impression is that they are viewing this as a possible longer term franchise like the X-Men, except, let's face it, right now, or over the last 20 years, the FF are not as popular as the X-Men.

So they have to build something.

 

You're not going to start off with an X-Men First Class type of movie, because the general audience isn't as invested in the characters as they are the X-Men.

You can't do the Hickman stuff, because that's still Marvel's.

 

So you have to do something contemporary of your own, that'll pull more people in than just comic book fans. Throw some feelers out there. Get people talking about it.

Start building excitement and scuttlebutt now.

Can you imagine at some point crossing over these two franchise's?

Millar knows what he's doing.

I may not agree with every decision he makes along the way, but I feel this is in better hands than it's ever been.

 

 

There is probably more accuracy in this statement than some would realize. And using market reaction to feel out direction may not be a bad thing in the end.

[He11blazer]

Having said that, I may be liking mainly her looks and certain cute gestures which I suspect I will grow quite tired of by the time I've watched the whole series!

 

You will. She is quite useless in that show. But, definitely worth watching! (although this season is a bit slow so far)

 

I don't blame January Jones for this, but I have no idea why she's even been in the series since Don Draper remarried. She's barely in the show, and when she is, she's written to serve zero purpose to the story, yet they keep showing her.

 

You just spoiled me!

 

Of course I'm joking and don't actually care. I'm watching a 6 year old show after all!

 

Oh, oops, my bad. I let spoilers rip in threads about a show or movie, but this isn't a Mad Men thread, so my bad.

 

It's okay. At least you didn't mention when Sally gets killed in that car crash. Or when Joan leaves the agency and becomes an escort.

 

I have absolutely no idea whether to take any or all of these seriously Gonna go watch end of season 1 now...

[Jonesin4Comics]

See there is a bit of a problem with the first part of your statement. I love the idea that skin color holds no more significance than the color of your eyes, but it does. It represents your history and the history of your family.

 

That is where my problem comes in with this casting. If Johnny is black than Sue needs to be black. Part of what makes the FF the FF is the family dynamic of the team. If you neglect or change that than part of the dynamic is lost.

 

They could work around it, but the story would lose focus.

 

 

I still don't see the issue, though. So let's say Sue is black, or they are part of a mixed-race family. Okay. They're still a family. So how does this negatively impact the family dynamic of the FF?

 

I agree, and this isn't the first time someone mentioned them being a family as a reason they can't be different races.

This hits close to home because my wife and I are not the same race. My parents are not the same race. That has no bearing on whether or not we're a family. Basically that argument is irrelevant.

 

[jimjum12]

See there is a bit of a problem with the first part of your statement. I love the idea that skin color holds no more significance than the color of your eyes, but it does. It represents your history and the history of your family.

 

That is where my problem comes in with this casting. If Johnny is black than Sue needs to be black. Part of what makes the FF the FF is the family dynamic of the team. If you neglect or change that than part of the dynamic is lost.

 

They could work around it, but the story would lose focus.

 

 

I still don't see the issue, though. So let's say Sue is black, or they are part of a mixed-race family. Okay. They're still a family. So how does this negatively impact the family dynamic of the FF?

 

I agree, and this isn't the first time someone mentioned them being a family as a reason they can't be different races.

This hits close to home because my wife and I are not the same race. My parents are not the same race. That has no bearing on whether or not we're a family. Basically that argument is irrelevant.

 

..... right on, brother ! I just hope the change is compelling and plot driven.... not just gratuitous. I'd be more comfortable if it were Marvel/Disney at the helm. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[vaillant]

Just make Susan Storm black and it shouldn't be a problem right? Or perhaps Johnny Storm was an adopted brother or even a step brother. There are at least a dozen ways to make it work. All I care about is that Johnny's character be irresponsible, a tad of a narcissist and a player with the ladies. (thumbs u

 

So that’s all the character is about? Good!