CGC Case Indentations 0

[THE_BEYONDER]

The whole 'no returns on CGC books' is a BS policy to begin with. A good seller will allow returns on both raw & slabbed.

[TXReplicant]

Just received a Thief of Thieves #1 First Print signed by Kirkman in CGC 9.8/WP/PUDDLING.

 

I paid 150 to a reputable boardie for the slab (he didn't mention the puddling and actually said the slab was 100%), which is lower than the going rate on ebay, but I will forever wear a sad face when I look at it.

 

I don't understand how on one hand CGC can reassure people that they don't accept any slab defects in their process, while allowing their employees to continue to use an inferior material from their supplier.

 

Please let me know when either:

 

A. CGC offers to reholder these defective slabs for free including shipping

 

or

 

B. We have put them out of business by not submitting anymore books until this is fixed

[mintcollector]

The whole 'no returns on CGC books' is a BS policy to begin with. A good seller will allow returns on both raw & slabbed.

 

Do you also feel that auction houses should be or forced to take returns as well? This ideology under minds the auction industry and I am thankful that most high end auction companies stand firm on this principle.

 

Edited October 6, 2013 by mintcollector

[Transplant]

The whole 'no returns on CGC books' is a BS policy to begin with. A good seller will allow returns on both raw & slabbed.

I don't allow returns on slabs I sell on eBay. Not sure why I would. The risk is much greater of flaky buyers, returns with magazines in the box instead of the slab, people deciding they don't like the price they paid, etc. Here, I'll let people return within a reasonable time. But eBay is a different story. Plus, as someone said, would you expect auction houses to also allow returns? For that matter, I usually sell by BIN one eBay, but what about auctions? Allow returns there?

 

I just don't get it.

[vhunter]

The whole 'no returns on CGC books' is a BS policy to begin with. A good seller will allow returns on both raw & slabbed.

I don't allow returns on slabs I sell on eBay. Not sure why I would. The risk is much greater of flaky buyers, returns with magazines in the box instead of the slab, people deciding they don't like the price they paid, etc. Here, I'll let people return within a reasonable time. But eBay is a different story. Plus, as someone said, would you expect auction houses to also allow returns? For that matter, I usually sell by BIN one eBay, but what about auctions? Allow returns there?

 

I just don't get it.

 

to be honest, they all might as well stop taking credit card or paypal payment on all their slab sales. as long as no disclose up front about the indentation, buyer decide open a case with paypal or credit card company, seller will never win, even with the no return policy in place. just think about the time and shipping cost lost in long term, in the end seller will have to decide is continuing submitting books worth the trouble or not.

[mintcollector]

The whole 'no returns on CGC books' is a BS policy to begin with. A good seller will allow returns on both raw & slabbed.

I don't allow returns on slabs I sell on eBay. Not sure why I would. The risk is much greater of flaky buyers, returns with magazines in the box instead of the slab, people deciding they don't like the price they paid, etc. Here, I'll let people return within a reasonable time. But eBay is a different story. Plus, as someone said, would you expect auction houses to also allow returns? For that matter, I usually sell by BIN one eBay, but what about auctions? Allow returns there?

 

I just don't get it.

 

to be honest, they all might as well stop taking credit card or paypal payment on all their slab sales. as long as no disclose up front about the indentation, buyer decide open a case with paypal or credit card company, seller will never win, even with the no return policy in place. just think about the time and shipping cost lost in long term, in the end seller will have to decide is continuing submitting books worth the trouble or not.

 

If they do this with a major auction company they can be banned for life. Businesses also have a right to protect their own self interests and determine who they wish to do business with. In fact, I know several high profile auction houses that will ban you over one simple chargeback or dispute. This preserves the integrity of the auction as a place of said business per binding legal contract. In almost every auction I have every participated in (most notably high end sales as well); all items are noted as is and sales final; even those that have a 'condition report.' This is expressly communicated in both the auction catalog and the website where an agreement is made before bids are accepted. This is why terms and conditions of any sale are listed on the website or on display as dictated per policy.

 

As someone who spends an awful lot at auctions, I don't want someone being able to undermine the auction by getting caught up in a bidding frenzy and not being able to afford the item; paying for it anyway with their rent or mortgage money, then needing to claim it wasn't 'as described' so they can return it to make their financial obligations. As someone who learned the antiques and collectibles trade through 'hard knocks'; this does nothing but undermine the process and is completely unfair to those who play by the rules.

 

Therefore, if it is worth undergoing a major dispute with a well respected dealer or auction house due to something they have no control over; so be it. Just don't complain when you can't simply click the BUY IT NOW price or place a bid on that item that is selling for $500 under current market value in their next auction or sale because it was listed wrong or the sale was at a bad time. I really don't want to hear it at that point.

[THE_BEYONDER]

The whole 'no returns on CGC books' is a BS policy to begin with. A good seller will allow returns on both raw & slabbed.

I don't allow returns on slabs I sell on eBay. Not sure why I would. The risk is much greater of flaky buyers, returns with magazines in the box instead of the slab, people deciding they don't like the price they paid, etc. Here, I'll let people return within a reasonable time. But eBay is a different story. Plus, as someone said, would you expect auction houses to also allow returns? For that matter, I usually sell by BIN one eBay, but what about auctions? Allow returns there?

 

I just don't get it.

 

I guess I've been spoiled by having access to our own marketplace for so long. I haven't sold on EBay in almost a decade. I don't consign to auction houses. Buying & selling has been much more personal for me.

 

Colour me insulated....

[mintcollector]

The whole 'no returns on CGC books' is a BS policy to begin with. A good seller will allow returns on both raw & slabbed.

I don't allow returns on slabs I sell on eBay. Not sure why I would. The risk is much greater of flaky buyers, returns with magazines in the box instead of the slab, people deciding they don't like the price they paid, etc. Here, I'll let people return within a reasonable time. But eBay is a different story. Plus, as someone said, would you expect auction houses to also allow returns? For that matter, I usually sell by BIN one eBay, but what about auctions? Allow returns there?

 

I just don't get it.

 

I guess I've been spoiled by having access to our own marketplace for so long. I haven't sold on EBay in almost a decade. I don't consign to auction houses. Buying & selling has been much more personal for me.

 

Colour me insulated....

 

So you now have changed your position after another forum member offers the same view I have? Or by your own admission of 'being spoiled by having access to our own marketplace for so long' you now admit that you had no idea as to what proper position is outside this forum?

 

I am just curious because it is ironic that after I chose to post in this thread for the first time in over thirty plus days and comment on another topic entirely, you chose to 'bump' a statement I made more than two pages back and a month prior; just to go against the views that have now given you second thought.

 

Again, this is not the fault of the seller and even if you bought something like this from our own forum, what restitution other than a refund could the seller possibly offer you? A reholder would currently subject the book to the same defect in question without the original problem being resolved. Again I ask, why blame the seller?

 

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

The whole 'no returns on CGC books' is a BS policy to begin with. A good seller will allow returns on both raw & slabbed.

I don't allow returns on slabs I sell on eBay. Not sure why I would. The risk is much greater of flaky buyers, returns with magazines in the box instead of the slab, people deciding they don't like the price they paid, etc. Here, I'll let people return within a reasonable time. But eBay is a different story. Plus, as someone said, would you expect auction houses to also allow returns? For that matter, I usually sell by BIN one eBay, but what about auctions? Allow returns there?

 

I just don't get it.

 

I guess I've been spoiled by having access to our own marketplace for so long. I haven't sold on EBay in almost a decade. I don't consign to auction houses. Buying & selling has been much more personal for me.

 

Colour me insulated....

 

So you now have changed your position after another forum member offers the same view I have? Or by your own admission of 'being spoiled by having access to our own marketplace for so long' you now admit that you had no idea as to what proper position is outside this forum?

 

I am just curious because it is ironic that after I chose to post in this thread for the first time in over thirty plus days and comment on another topic entirely, you chose to 'bump' a statement I made more than two pages back and a month prior; just to go against the views that have now given you second thought.

 

Again, this is not the fault of the seller and even if you bought something like this from our own forum, what restitution other than a refund could the seller possibly offer you? A reholder would currently subject the book to the same defect in question without the original problem being resolved. Again I ask, why blame the seller?

 

 

I haven't changed my position. I accept returns on CGC books, just like I would accept returns on anything I sell if the buyer is unsatisfied.

 

It's not about assigning blame, it's about Customer Service. That still matters in the 'real world'....no?

 

In the case of a cratered inner well...I would refund the buyer upon return of the item.

[mintcollector]

The whole 'no returns on CGC books' is a BS policy to begin with. A good seller will allow returns on both raw & slabbed.

I don't allow returns on slabs I sell on eBay. Not sure why I would. The risk is much greater of flaky buyers, returns with magazines in the box instead of the slab, people deciding they don't like the price they paid, etc. Here, I'll let people return within a reasonable time. But eBay is a different story. Plus, as someone said, would you expect auction houses to also allow returns? For that matter, I usually sell by BIN one eBay, but what about auctions? Allow returns there?

 

I just don't get it.

 

I guess I've been spoiled by having access to our own marketplace for so long. I haven't sold on EBay in almost a decade. I don't consign to auction houses. Buying & selling has been much more personal for me.

 

Colour me insulated....

 

So you now have changed your position after another forum member offers the same view I have? Or by your own admission of 'being spoiled by having access to our own marketplace for so long' you now admit that you had no idea as to what proper position is outside this forum?

 

I am just curious because it is ironic that after I chose to post in this thread for the first time in over thirty plus days and comment on another topic entirely, you chose to 'bump' a statement I made more than two pages back and a month prior; just to go against the views that have now given you second thought.

 

Again, this is not the fault of the seller and even if you bought something like this from our own forum, what restitution other than a refund could the seller possibly offer you? A reholder would currently subject the book to the same defect in question without the original problem being resolved. Again I ask, why blame the seller?

 

 

I haven't changed my position. I accept returns on CGC books, just like I would accept returns on anything I sell if the buyer is unsatisfied.

 

It's not about assigning blame, it's about Customer Service. That still matters in the 'real world'....no?

 

In the case of a cratered inner well...I would refund the buyer upon return of the item.

 

First, auctions are legally binding. Customer service is all fine and well as long ALL particants understand the terms and conditions for which they are bidding.

 

Second, this is about how other sellers choose to conduct their own business. I fully support any seller who does not wish to offer a return on a CGC graded book. As one can tell, I too get a lot of books on this forum and not o ce have I asked for a partial refund or ever returned a book. I have asked for scans before buying, which is expected.

 

In conclusion, attempting to force sellers and auction houses to make concessions due to this issue (that is no fault of their own) accomplishes nothing. It is CGC who needs to fix this plain and simple. I can tell you right now had I bought a book that had this issue I would not be emailing the seller. I also would not ge podtimg about on open forums. there are far greater issues that my fellow forum members have to deal with. They didn't encapsulate the book. I would be emailing CGC to see when te problem is resolved so I can send the book in for reholdering at my own expense...just like I do when I receive a scratched graded coin from a top notch dealer. Why on earth would I risk future deals over something this futile?

[THE_BEYONDER]

Not even sure what we're arguing about at this point. You seem overly concerned that a seller might ban you from future purchases if you complained.

 

Sorry...but that isn't a concern of mine.

 

And before you go on a rant about how I'm probably a problem buyer to avoid, I've returned 2 books in the last decade. A CGC 9.8 FF 214 due to severe SCS, and 1 raw book that I felt was misrepresented. It got returned because it was a 1k + book.

 

 

When I get overgraded raw books from fellow forum members I just put them in a pile and avoid that seller going forward.

Edited October 7, 2013 by THE_BEYONDER

[Transplant]

Seems like time for a bump. The thread in the restoration section is getting some attention, but there needs to be more discussion here.

[jimjum12]

From my limited experience with injection molding, if there were any structural/visual defects (blistering, warping, or gassing) the buyers wouldn't accept the pieces. We'd have to fine tune the press until it was right or lose business. Either the manufacturer changed materials/specs or CGC found another supplier. Either way accepting this as normal (when it was rarely if ever an issue) and passing it on to the paying customer is unacceptable. I too disagree with the "this will not effect the book" response. This will leave an indentation on the book. I've got some sub coupons to use and was planning on submitting additional books @ Baltimore. I will just utilize my coupons since they expire in a few months. I guess if there's any positive side to this, CCS, JoeyPost and anyone who presses will benefit from the plethora of books that will have these crater impressions.

 

Are you certain these well components are injection molded ? They could easily be produced by a thermoforming process at a much cheaper cost. I would bet money that you are right about the supplier and would go so far as to say that the defect probably doesn't manifest until the vacuum seal is performed. CGC would probably not accept the wells if the defect was already visible..... although this problem almost certainly resides at the suppliers doorstep. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[Sqeggs]

The whole 'no returns on CGC books' is a BS policy to begin with. A good seller will allow returns on both raw & slabbed.

I don't allow returns on slabs I sell on eBay. Not sure why I would. The risk is much greater of flaky buyers, returns with magazines in the box instead of the slab, people deciding they don't like the price they paid, etc. Here, I'll let people return within a reasonable time. But eBay is a different story. Plus, as someone said, would you expect auction houses to also allow returns? For that matter, I usually sell by BIN one eBay, but what about auctions? Allow returns there?

 

I just don't get it.

 

I guess I've been spoiled by having access to our own marketplace for so long. I haven't sold on EBay in almost a decade. I don't consign to auction houses. Buying & selling has been much more personal for me.

 

Colour me insulated....

 

So you now have changed your position after another forum member offers the same view I have? Or by your own admission of 'being spoiled by having access to our own marketplace for so long' you now admit that you had no idea as to what proper position is outside this forum?

 

I am just curious because it is ironic that after I chose to post in this thread for the first time in over thirty plus days and comment on another topic entirely, you chose to 'bump' a statement I made more than two pages back and a month prior; just to go against the views that have now given you second thought.

 

Again, this is not the fault of the seller and even if you bought something like this from our own forum, what restitution other than a refund could the seller possibly offer you? A reholder would currently subject the book to the same defect in question without the original problem being resolved. Again I ask, why blame the seller?

 

 

I'm still not sure after all this back and forth whether you agree that a seller should disclose this defect in the slab. That's the key point. If a buyer purchases a slab where the defect has been disclosed, that's on the buyer. If the buyer purchases a slab where the defect has not been disclosed, that's on the seller.

 

You may well be correct that major dealers or auction houses will likely ban a buyer who complains after receiving a defective slab, but if enough buyers refuse to accept these slabs, pressure on CGC to correct the problem will increase. In the end, CGC is much more likely to respond to the big dealers and auction houses than to any of us.

 

In any event, my guess is that when this problem is resolved, it will probably be done silently. There are far too many of these slabs out there now for CGC to admit they are defective and to agree to reholder them without charge.

[Sqeggs]

From my limited experience with injection molding, if there were any structural/visual defects (blistering, warping, or gassing) the buyers wouldn't accept the pieces. We'd have to fine tune the press until it was right or lose business. Either the manufacturer changed materials/specs or CGC found another supplier. Either way accepting this as normal (when it was rarely if ever an issue) and passing it on to the paying customer is unacceptable. I too disagree with the "this will not effect the book" response. This will leave an indentation on the book. I've got some sub coupons to use and was planning on submitting additional books @ Baltimore. I will just utilize my coupons since they expire in a few months. I guess if there's any positive side to this, CCS, JoeyPost and anyone who presses will benefit from the plethora of books that will have these crater impressions.

 

Are you certain these well components are injection molded ? They could easily be produced by a thermoforming process at a much cheaper cost. I would bet money that you are right about the supplier and would go so far as to say that the defect probably doesn't manifest until the vacuum seal is performed. CGC would probably not accept the wells if the defect was already visible..... although this problem almost certainly resides at the suppliers doorstep. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

As I mentioned in the other thread, whenever they resolve this, they will likely do so without a public statement. With so many defective slabs out there, to admit that this problem was a defect would leave them open to too many request for free reholdering.

[seanfingh]

 

I don't think "re-holder" is the right terminology. Re-holders work for the correction of errors or damaged outer cases. This is neither. This is a defective inner well. Thus, it is not a simple re-holder, and adds another layer of complexity to the matter.

[BlowUpTheMoon]

I just found one in my collection.

 

[seanfingh]

 

That's a big one!

[Sqeggs]

I just found one in my collection.

 

 

If it's a Disney comic, that may be a hidden Mickey.

[mintcollector]

Not even sure what we're arguing about at this point. You seem overly concerned that a seller might ban you from future purchases if you complained.

 

Sorry...but that isn't a concern of mine.

 

And before you go on a rant about how I'm probably a problem buyer to avoid, I've returned 2 books in the last decade. A CGC 9.8 FF 214 due to severe SCS, and 1 raw book that I felt was misrepresented. It got returned because it was a 1k + book.

 

 

When I get overgraded raw books from fellow forum members I just put them in a pile and avoid that seller going forward.

 

After deciding to respond to my original comment more than 35 days after I posted it; and only after I originally made a statement unrelated to what you mentioned, you now state that you have no idea what we are arguing about?

 

Your statement above already perfectly clarifies that you don't know what we are discussing. My simple question is then why did you respond to begin with? Obviously, both the original intent and resolution have escaped your grasp.