Just how consistent is CGC? posted by GamingEtc

[CSJournals-migration]

or resubbing a book and retaining its grade...

 

So I see and a hear a lot of people receive grades on a book and question why they are what they are. I have also seen someone (myself including) receive a high grade they did not expect and were surprised to get. And a lot of people seems to question just how consistent the grading process really is. I would like to think that for the money we pay and the time involved in the process that there is a legitimate rhyme and reason to everything and the books deserve the grades they get whether we always understand why. Let's face it: We do not work for CGC and are not privvy to the process and discussions on why a book is graded the way it is. So where is this going you ask?

 

I have a 9.8 copy of ASM 65. There are only 13 of these on the census and 0 that are 9.8 signed. So I thought it would be great to have mine signed by Stan Lee and Romita for the fabled OAK. I am not afraid to crack books for signings as I've had good results in the past. The problem to me though is this book, from my perspective, has a noticeable defect. On the bottom back cover right by the spine there is a small chip out of the cover, literally a little piece missing. Now I would like to think for whatever reason, this book deserved it's 9.8 for the reasons I have already listed but I just would never ever expect this book to get a 9.8 sending it in raw. I would really like the take the gamble and have this book signed but if I knew in advance that it would definitely drop to say even a 9.6, I would rather have a 9.8 universal than a 9.6 signed personally. Any thoughts on this?

 

If it makes any difference I have zero intentions of selling this book if it were to become signed and hold it's grade. This would be one you'd have to pry from my cold, lifeless fingers.

 

See more journals by GamingEtc

[Sensei Ryan]

My recommendation is to keep it at its Universal 9.8 grade. It's possible that the grader missed the chip on the spine (if you can see it by looking at it this could be a sign to a different grader that there's no way it's a 9.8 - the grader who originally graded it probably thought it was too perfect in other ways to downgrade it but for some people 1 specific defect could knock it down) - if it is that rare and that much more valuable as a 9.8 I wouldn't take the chance.

Just my

However, if this were a modern book I'd say go for it...chances are you could find another one.

Regardless of what you do with it, congrats on the acquisition of the book! If you do resubmit it after signing please follow up on this to let us know what happened!

[meshuggah]

If you can, investing in graders notes may help. You may see whether this chip was noticed. Personally I'd want the signature, but since you don't I'd be leery of doing it.

[Bomber-Bob]

The missing chip was probably considered a bindery issue and given a pass.

Personally, I don't think CGC should assume the chip is bindery. Yes, you are taking a big chance by resubmiting. I would not even consider it.

[GamingEtc-migration]

Oh I want the signature, I want it so bad I can't stand it. That's the whole point of this. I just dont want it at the cost of this book going down because I could just buy a 9.6 and have it signed, and there are 2 already signed that might pop up for sale. But there are so few 9.8s that I don't want to turn a 9.8 into something else as it would be very hard to replace. I would love to own the only 9.8 signed there is, it's just this specific copy looks like it might not be the best to gamble on.

[HDFXST7]

I would leave it alone. Enjoy it for what it is.

[SW3D]

In my opinion, I would go for the signatures. How often are you going to get the opportunity to obtain 2 key signatures?

 

Worst case scenario the 9.8 drops to a 9.6, but as you stated, there are currently no 9.8 with signatures. So, if it did fall to 9.6, it would be a top 9.6 with double signatures. It's FMV equivalent to a Universal 9.8 without signature.

 

But... conversly, it may come back with a 9.8 grade and now command the top spot because of the signatures. That's a glory that's far too tempting to overlook.

 

Nothing Ventured, Nothing Gained!

 

By the way... could you post a pic on it... one that shows this flaw?

 

SW3D

[kaholo1256]

Gaming - I'm a Vegas man myself love Black Jack and the thrill of going all in. Some times I come up empty and sometimes I come up big but as SW3D says nothing ventured, nothing gained. Also if you are worried the $4 - $8 buck investment for the notes sounds like the 1st safe thing to do. I had to do this on two occasions so far. One to see if it was worth cracking for the same worries and the second following a grade drop after resubmitting which were necessary to prove there was negligence in caring for my comic.

 

For me since I'm not a seller but buyer I would go for it. I collect for my own enjoyment and for the knowledge that one day when I'm old and my kids have shuttled me off to the retirement home they might make a buck or two...

[Tnerb]

I read your journal and I will read the responses after i add my two cents. If I repeat what anyone else has said I apologize.

 

First off the defect you mention can be a manufacturing defect. This type of defect does not hurt the book so much as a regular defect caused by mishandling or reading. The Neil Gaiman Sandman series took me forever to decide to have them all graded regardless of the final grade but I did look for the best ones to send in first. However the spines seemed to be flaky, in my estimation, a 9.2. In fact my number #1 came back with that same graded, green label. This helped reinforce my fear, but then I decided to send in #3 with the same type of spine.It returned a 9.8.

 

The spine issue was apparently a manufacturing consistency. My Marvel Super Heroes Secret Wars has two corner chips. TWO, as bright as day. As a raw book I never would have sent it in, as a 9.8 I am reluctant to crack for a signature and right now am debating between a few to crack for Wizard World Philadelphia, not to mention Chicago. Some of my books I question how did they get a 9.8 and with the recent murmuring of CGC cracking down and being more stringent of what does and does not reach a 9.8 scares me.

 

As far as cracking this particular 9.8 for an OAK of a signature I understand the trepidation since i had the same issue going after a third signature on one of my beloved books and it is easy for me to say go for it when it is not my book. But the key is, this is a book you love. You said you would never part with it so isn't a 9.6 signed and possibly personalized to you better than a 9.8. A 9.8 universal could show up again, it could, but a graded CGC personalized o you cannot.

 

My thoughts, maybe I will reread this later when I am sitting next to the handful of my books wondering which i should crack. Speaking of which. I cracked my New Mutants Special Edition and after I cracked it I saw all the things that terrified me that the book would get a 9.6...it retained a 9.8. Good luck, now I have to go read the other responses.

 

Tnerb

[slym2none]

CGC is softer on SA and older books. A condition that takes a modern to 9.0 grade might get a 9.4-9.6 on a GA book.

 

IMHO, of course.

 

 

 

-slym

[GamingEtc-migration]

I really appreciate all the responses here. Unfortunately you're not helping since there seems to be an equal divide of "keep what you have" vs. "GO FOR IT WHOOOOOO".

 

If anyone is interested and wants to check back later I will do like SW3D asked and post a picture of the defect when I get off work this evening. Regardless, thanks for all the input none the less.

[surfer99]

My suggestion? Buy a 9.6 copy that looks amazingly clean, have it signed then pressed, and hope for the 9.8. I don't have the courage to crack open my rare in high grade Bronze Age books and I am not a gambling man, so it's really a matter of personal perspective.

 

[JollyComics]

I read your journal and I will read the responses after i add my two cents. If I repeat what anyone else has said I apologize.

 

First off the defect you mention can be a manufacturing defect. This type of defect does not hurt the book so much as a regular defect caused by mishandling or reading. The Neil Gaiman Sandman series took me forever to decide to have them all graded regardless of the final grade but I did look for the best ones to send in first. However the spines seemed to be flaky, in my estimation, a 9.2. In fact my number #1 came back with that same graded, green label. This helped reinforce my fear, but then I decided to send in #3 with the same type of spine.It returned a 9.8.

 

The spine issue was apparently a manufacturing consistency. My Marvel Super Heroes Secret Wars has two corner chips. TWO, as bright as day. As a raw book I never would have sent it in, as a 9.8 I am reluctant to crack for a signature and right now am debating between a few to crack for Wizard World Philadelphia, not to mention Chicago. Some of my books I question how did they get a 9.8 and with the recent murmuring of CGC cracking down and being more stringent of what does and does not reach a 9.8 scares me.

 

As far as cracking this particular 9.8 for an OAK of a signature I understand the trepidation since i had the same issue going after a third signature on one of my beloved books and it is easy for me to say go for it when it is not my book. But the key is, this is a book you love. You said you would never part with it so isn't a 9.6 signed and possibly personalized to you better than a 9.8. A 9.8 universal could show up again, it could, but a graded CGC personalized o you cannot.

 

My thoughts, maybe I will reread this later when I am sitting next to the handful of my books wondering which i should crack. Speaking of which. I cracked my New Mutants Special Edition and after I cracked it I saw all the things that terrified me that the book would get a 9.6...it retained a 9.8. Good luck, now I have to go read the other responses.

 

Tnerb

 

Whoever were at Wizard World Chicago I wanted them signed my books.

I gambled on two 9.8 copies: Superman #239 and #243. Both cases were cracked by myself. Neal Adams signed them on Thursday which was the first day of 4 days at the convention may be the best result to have same grades after signing. I was told that only two graders work on the issue instead of three or four graders at their workplace. It was an onsite grading. I picked up my books on Saturday. Both were graded at 9.8. I left them the old labels in the bags before signing that may be a good reference for the graders.

 

I felt so confident and can do it again at the same convention this August. It has been consistent to get many nice grades when it is onsite grading at Chicago convention in three years in a row, maybe fourth. Knock on wood.

 

Onsite grading can surprise you. Only two graders work on one book. I think there are two teams to grade the books.

[ItsJustRyan]

Buy a book already signed and leave this one alone... my and good luck (thumbs u