Recent Pre-Code Purchases 42 42

[*paull*]

Two things would scare me away from that auction.... the too casual grading done by the seller, and the fact that there are a bunch of Harvey file copies out there. $900 is just ridiculous, as far as I'm concerned. There are countless books that I would rather have at that price.

 

I don't like to look at a book in isolation to determine its value. I compare a book to other books in its price range... do I want this one as much or less? In this case, definitely less... Another example is Horrific #3. That book doesn't even have one of the better Don Heck covers, as far as I'm concerned. Way overpriced, mainly because people are holding them in their collections and they aren't on the market.

 

Edited September 12, 2004 by paull

[shrunkenhead]

While I wouldn't pay $900 for that Tomb of Terror, I could see going as high as $600 or $700 as a reasonable bid. It is one of the classic covers after all. Paull, I'm not quite sure why you see a book as less "scarce" simply because people are holding onto the books in their collections as opposed to number of existing copies, etc. I understand the difference but either way the books are less available to YOU (this to me seems to be the key point), and that equates scarcity, be it real or "imagined." Thus prices naturally go higher, as they should for books that are "keepers" to collectors.

[shrunkenhead]

And a very nice STT!

[*paull*]

I think I feel that way because in a changing market, those issues will suddenly be available. For instance, let's say there's a sudden increase in prices and interest in pre-code horror like there was in circa 1995. Copies of Horrific #3, TOT #15, Black Cat Mystery #50 and others will suddenly see the light of day. I definitely think that there is a difference between true scarcity and hoarding.

[*paull*]

Thanks! Sorry for the bad photo... the book is very flat, clean and glossy, with no tears or creases, just a little edge and corner wear. I need to get a cheapo scanner if only to scan books to show other people. I got this book for a very good price from a guy I had bought from previously... far below guide. I guess that makes up for the over-guide prices I've paid for other books recently

Edited September 12, 2004 by paull

[rjpb]

The only time classic cover horror books come out of the woodwork in greater numbers is when higher prices make selling an attractive option. Even with the number of file copies out there, I don't think there are enough copies of books like ToT 15 and Black Cat 50 to satisfy demand. These are "key" books for pre-code horror collectors and even at 2 or 3 times guide are still pretty cheap compared to alot of classic cover superhero books from the GA. If not for all the file copies, I think those two books would sell for even more in high grade.

 

As for Horrific 3, it is recognized by many collectors as one of the classic covers of the genre. We all have favorites which haven't reached icon status, and every collector can probably think of a couple "classic" covers which don't excite them, but Horrific 3 has been a high demand pre-code book for years.

 

For many pre-code titles, I've long felt that the most overvalued issues have been first issues - an influence of super-hero titles where that has a real signifigance. I think for most pre-code horror collectors, the issue number is far less importance than the cover and/or interior art and story.

[*paull*]

I agree completely about issue numbers. A #1 has little significance in pre-code horror, unless it's Eerie #1 or Adventures Into The Unknown #1 or something similar.

 

Also agree that there aren't enough copies to satisfy the demand for TOT #15 and BCM #50. But give me $900 to spend on a pre-code book, and TOT #15 wouldn't even get consideration from me.

 

Regarding Horrific #3, I consider it seriously overrated. The cover is pretty bland... especially in comparison to some of Heck's other great covers, including Horrific #7. Somehow Horrific #3 got a reputation as being a classic pre-code book in light of so many other neglected classics.

Edited September 12, 2004 by paull

[sfilosa]

hope that you're not trying hard to put together a collection of 8.0 Star Coles... you're not only going to go broke, but crazy also!

 

I am going to try. As I said before, I highlighted 50 issues that I would like to get. There is no question this will take many years as a few of the books on my list don't even have a copy graded at CGC 8.0 or above. And what will make it harder, is I would like the books to have at least Off-White pages (but I will buy Cream to Off-White if I see a reasonably priced copy).

 

Nice Startling Terror Tales. Metro has a CGC 8.0 for $300. I've been thinking about it, but as of yet, have not pulled the trigger.

[shrunkenhead]

Sfilosa, good luck with that Cole run. With time and patience, I think it could be done at a semi-affordable price (and there's probably one or two people who've done it already). 8.0's are a great deal right now, as everybody's turning up their noses and pouring their dollars into the 9.2's and up. Five to seven years from now, when some of these books are still only slabbed at no higher than an 8.5, the tune's gonna change.

 

Your comment about looking for books with off-white pages or better intruiges me. Do you other pre-coders out there find cream pages disdainful as well? What about--gasp--light tanning? At what point does the page quality make a book undesirable for you guys?

 

I guess I'm asking as I recently purchased my first book with tan pages, and have mixed emotions about it. It's a great book with a classic cover (Airfighters #6...not horror, but maybe should be!), CGC'd at 6.0 with light tan to off-white pages. While I'm glad to finally own a presentable copy of the book at a reasonable price, I wonder what kind of resistance I'll have if and when I try to resell (due to the tanning). Any thoughts from the peanut gallery?

[*paull*]

Sfilosa, good luck with the Star collection....

 

Regarding page quality, I don't mind off-white or cream pages. My only problem with worsened page quality is that it usually accompanies a brittle spine which seems to be my biggest problem with pre-code books in low grade.

 

I wouldn't really say that there are bargains in 8.0 pre-code books. But it certainly applies to Silver Age Marvels. Pre-code horror is hard as hell to collect in 8.0 or higher. I can't imagine what those Haunted Thrills books would have cost me if they were above 8.0. I don't think I would have gone for them since the HT #5 probably would have been $900-$1000.

 

I'm perfectly satisfied with 4.0 books, but try to find slightly nicer copies (maybe 5.0 to 7.0) of my favorites.

 

Some books would command ridiculous prices in high grade. I can't imagine what a Mistery Mystery #12 or Horrific #3 in 9.0 would go for...

[sfilosa]

Regarding page quality.

 

For me, and I know many others, feel that Off-White is the lowest page quality acceptable for Silver-Age and higher. If you see a nice book sell for a lot less than the usual premium, it's most like because of Cream to Off-White page quality or a date stamp / writing on the front cover.

 

Now GA and pre-code is different. I have bought a few books that have Cream to Off-White pages and had date stamps / arrival codes on the front because in many cases, it's the highest graded copy.

 

Would I buy a book at this time with Tan pages? No. But if I was closer to completing my goal, and the only copy available had Tan to Off-White pages, I probably would buy it (but would expect to pay less then if the book had Off-White pages).

 

Page Quality does factor into the final price.

[shrunkenhead]

Interesting discussion, gents!

 

Yep, GA is definitely a different ballgame than SA in terms of page quality. I remember once proudly showing off a Vault of Horror CGC'd at 8.5 to an SA guy, and the first response was "eww, cream to off-white pages!". I was initally stunned. After slogging through the conventions and the bins and the untold numbers of G- copies, I luck onto a beauty, and this dude's person_without_enough_empathying about the pages!??!

 

Ahem, I digress. Yeah, like I said, I have reservations about the light tanning on books, and I'm still not sure how I feel about my recent purchase (though it's not for sale, hehe). I am, these days, strictly a GA collector. I made the jump from BA to GA about two years back. Truth be told, I never developed any sincere taste for silver. I think that's mainly cause I'm not a super-hero guy. Never much went in for spidey or any of that sort of stuff.

 

Like Paull says, finding books over 8.0 is TOUGH. Finding them at a price you can afford is damned near impossible. But to me, that's become the fun of the GA game. As far as I can see, the only thing that prevents a person from putting together a great run of Spidey, Avengers, etc, ad infinitum, is $$$$. The books are available, if you got the dough. Let's see, today's Sunday....if I spread around a few hundred grand, I could have a terrific run of Spidey in 9.4 delivered to my door by Friday. (Not that I have hundreds of thousands of bucks, but you get my point). Where's the challenge in that? No thrill of the hunt there. With GA, you've got to be vigilant, and you've got to be able to make good decisions quickly before someone else beats you to the punch and the book you wanted is tucked away forever. While that's proven intensely frustrating on several occasions, I get a real sense of satisfaction when I flip through my books and see what I've managed to put together.

 

Here's how the page quality breaks down for me, for GA:

 

White pages--You want my name written in blood? Where do I sign?

 

Off-white to white--Sure thing! I think I've got a couple of grand under the mattress...

 

Cream to off-white--I'll take it, if it's slabbed in 7.5 or better or if I've been looking for a long time.

 

Cream pages--slabbed in 8.0 or better, if I can afford it.

 

Light tan---a little turned off, but I'll take it if it's a classic cover, a key issue, or "scarce"

 

Tan--it better be a mega-key of serious import

 

Brittle--I don't care if it's Action #1, HELL NO!!

[shrunkenhead]

Oh, and I agree with Paull, Horrific #3 is an overrated cover, nyeah nyeah. It's even a rip-off of another Comic Media cover, but I forget which one at the moment...I'll look it up later.

[*paull*]

Regarding page quality, I avoid tan pages, but am OK with cream-off white if the book is desirable.

 

I almost completely stopped collecting Silver Age Marvels, the books that jump-started my interest in vintage books. As shrunkenhead mentioned, it's only a matter of money to put together a collection of any Silver Age Marvel title. Want a run of 9.0 Fantastic Four #1-100? Give me a couple days...

 

Want a 8.0 run of Weird Mysteries? Umm..... have a few years?

 

Anyone here collect Suspense Comics? My copy of #8 has a bit of a brittle spine and it looks like that it's a common affliction with this title. The cover paper looks to be of low quality. I want to get #9-12, but fear that it's going to be pretty difficult to get these books near 4.0 or 5.0 without giving up a limb.

[rjpb]

Shrunkenhead,

the image of the bullet-hole-in-head guy on Horrific #3 is taken from War Fury #1. Unless someone beats me to it, I will post both later tonight. I've always loved the cover to Horrific #3, and personally always felt Mr. Mystery #12 was a tad overrated - cool cover for sure, but not in my personal top-ten. Now if that poker was going into the eye- that would be something.

[sfilosa]

Like Paull says, finding books over 8.0 is TOUGH. Finding them at a price you can afford is damned near impossible. But to me, that's become the fun of the GA game. As far as I can see, the only thing that prevents a person from putting together a great run of Spidey, Avengers, etc, ad infinitum, is $$$$. The books are available, if you got the dough. Let's see, today's Sunday....if I spread around a few hundred grand, I could have a terrific run of Spidey in 9.4 delivered to my door by Friday. (Not that I have hundreds of thousands of bucks, but you get my point). Where's the challenge in that? No thrill of the hunt there.

 

I do collect Marvel Silver-Age books and I agree to a certain point that you could put a nice run together fairly fast (for the right money). Of course if the thrill of the hunt was the ONLY REASON to collect, then NO ONE would be collecting ALMOST any Bronze-Age or newer book.

 

When it comes to Silver-Age, I pretty much only buy 9.0 or higher (almost exclusively 9.4 after 1966).

 

That said, I actually prefer to find my 50's books in CGC 8.0 to 9.0 condition. I really don't want to pay 5 or 6 times the price to get a 9.4 book. Basically, most of the books are so hard to find, an 8.0 might be the best copy (or at least in the top five).

[*paull*]

I consider Mister Mystery #12 and Horrific #3 to be similar, two slightly overrated covers that go for big bucks. Personally, I much prefer the Mister Mystery cover even though it's not Baily's best... he did better work on other issues in that run. As Heck did in Horrific.

[*paull*]

Here's another purchase that I made this summer... Horrors of Mystery #13 (The Horrors #13) by Star Publications with another great L.B. Cole cover. I had a beater copy but fell in love with this 6.5 copy that I saw at a show. This is a really underrated cover, even in the realm of Cole covers. In the guide, the other issues in The Horrors series have higher values even though the covers aren't near as good. (all interiors are crime stories, reprints I believe)

 

Edited September 13, 2004 by paull

[rjpb]

Great score on the Horrors of Mystery 13. What sort of stories are inside?

 

Here is a post of my Horrific #3 - this was one of the first pre-code horror books I picked up about 10 years ago, when I branched out from collecting pre-code crime.

 

[rjpb]

And here is a copy of War Fury #1, the book the image was taken from - the first pre-code war book I ever picked up, and a classic in it's own right - as it is also a flamethrower cover and has extremely violent war stories inside.