Pre- Hero Marvels!!!! 16 16

[Frisco Larson]

26 minutes ago, KirbyJack said:

If it makes things easier, you can just call me Jack.

Yeah, 'cause typing FOUR letters is easier than typing TWO?!?!?!?????     

Ok, well if I call YOU Jack, what then am I supposed to call ComicJack??? 

How about Kirby??? I think THAT'S still available. Kirby anybody? Going once ….. going twice …..      and I'M over here, still recovering from Driscoll …..  

[bc]

Posted this several years ago, thought it might be worthy of  a bump.

 

Tales of Suspense 38 officially marks the last of the PHM issues with a cover date of February 1963 




Only Tales of Suspense 37 (1/63) and 38 (2/63) actually made it into 1963 cover dates; the rest had all converted to a superhero format by then or ceased publication in the case of World of Fantasy.

But it wasn’t the end of the PHM stories! It was just the end of the PHM covers. 

The PHM stories continued as 5 page nuggets that were hidden inside the newly introduced superhero cover issues of Journey into Mystery, Strange Tales, Tales to Astonish and Tales of Suspense for another 16 months until June 1964.

This doesn’t include content from Tales of Asgard (JIM 97-125), Tales of the Watcher (TOS 49-58) or Wasp’s Tales (TTA 51-56) as those had ties to the contemporary superheroes (although the first couple of the Tales of the Watcher stories are questionable in my humble opinion).

After paging thru several collections of post-PHM issues that encompassed every issue of the big 4 (JIM, ST, TOS & TTA) as well as the first couple of years of the superhero titles (FF, Avengers, ASM, IH, Sgt. Fury, X-Men, DD, Thor and the like), the PHM Sole Survivor Award goes to:

SKRANG 




Skrang was the last of the original PHM villains in the last original PHM story. Unfortunately, he retreated in fear from the Earth because he saw that elderly lady in the first panel wearing a fox stole while she was out alone on a casual evening stroll. We later find out that on Skrang’s planet, his race was at war with a vicious army of fox people and if this fragile Earth female was sporting one as a trophy around her neck, we were far too superior to even risk an attack.

That story appeared in Tales of Suspense 54 (which also sports the second appearance of the Mandarin - June 1964):




From there, we have to wait for the re-birth of Marvel Horror in the early Bronze Age and the subsequent reprinting/re-telling of the stories from our beloved PHM classics. To me, it sort of starts with the Tales of the Watcher re-appearing in Silver Surfer 1 (8/68) and the one-shot Tales of Asgard (10/68) and definitively reboots with Tower of Shadows and Chamber of Darkness in mid-69.

Here’s a list of the issue’s I’ve compiled that contain original PHM-style stories that continue into the Marvel Silver Age Superhero era:

Amazing Fantasy 15 (not like anyone’s going to buy it in any shape for the PHM content)
Strange Tales 101-113
Journey into Mystery 83-104
Tales of Suspense 39-48, 50-54
Tales to Astonish 35-51, 54

Here’s some of the Rogue’s Gallery from this group:

The Frightful Frog-Man (from Strange Tales 104)



The Star Raiders of Planet Torgo (from Tales to Astonish 37)



Tremble before the Killer Treadmill of Rodrigo Cadiz (from Tales to Astonish 50)



As you can see, these villains were just as cover worthy as Roc, Glob, Sserpo, Torr and maybe even the mighty Moomba !

I did not have access to any sizable amount of Atlas/Marvel westerns, so feel free to add data if there is any.

The Pre-Hero Marvel sub-genre that really originated with Strange Worlds 1 (12/58) under the combined talent of Lee/Ditko/Kirby/Ayers and others actually blossomed for 6 years until the superheroes were mature and diverse enough to finally carry the entire issues in June 1964.

Thanks for reading and as usual, keep ‘em coming !

-bc

[The Commissioner]

Thanks for the history lesson, @bc!

[The Commissioner]

And for my 100th post, I thought I would share my favorite PHM cover from my collection in my favorite thread!

[bc]

Congrats on 100 Commissioner! Nice book!

-bc

[Get Marwood & I]

 

[Frisco Larson]

17 minutes ago, bc said:

Posted this several years ago, thought it might be worthy of  a bump.

 

Tales of Suspense 38 officially marks the last of the PHM issues with a cover date of February 1963 




Only Tales of Suspense 37 (1/63) and 38 (2/63) actually made it into 1963 cover dates; the rest had all converted to a superhero format by then or ceased publication in the case of World of Fantasy.

But it wasn’t the end of the PHM stories! It was just the end of the PHM covers. 

The PHM stories continued as 5 page nuggets that were hidden inside the newly introduced superhero cover issues of Journey into Mystery, Strange Tales, Tales to Astonish and Tales of Suspense for another 16 months until June 1964.

This doesn’t include content from Tales of Asgard (JIM 97-125), Tales of the Watcher (TOS 49-58) or Wasp’s Tales (TTA 51-56) as those had ties to the contemporary superheroes (although the first couple of the Tales of the Watcher stories are questionable in my humble opinion).

After paging thru several collections of post-PHM issues that encompassed every issue of the big 4 (JIM, ST, TOS & TTA) as well as the first couple of years of the superhero titles (FF, Avengers, ASM, IH, Sgt. Fury, X-Men, DD, Thor and the like), the PHM Sole Survivor Award goes to:

SKRANG 




Skrang was the last of the original PHM villains in the last original PHM story. Unfortunately, he retreated in fear from the Earth because he saw that elderly lady in the first panel wearing a fox stole while she was out alone on a casual evening stroll. We later find out that on Skrang’s planet, his race was at war with a vicious army of fox people and if this fragile Earth female was sporting one as a trophy around her neck, we were far too superior to even risk an attack.

That story appeared in Tales of Suspense 54 (which also sports the second appearance of the Mandarin - June 1964):




From there, we have to wait for the re-birth of Marvel Horror in the early Bronze Age and the subsequent reprinting/re-telling of the stories from our beloved PHM classics. To me, it sort of starts with the Tales of the Watcher re-appearing in Silver Surfer 1 (8/68) and the one-shot Tales of Asgard (10/68) and definitively reboots with Tower of Shadows and Chamber of Darkness in mid-69.

Here’s a list of the issue’s I’ve compiled that contain original PHM-style stories that continue into the Marvel Silver Age Superhero era:

Amazing Fantasy 15 (not like anyone’s going to buy it in any shape for the PHM content)
Strange Tales 101-113
Journey into Mystery 83-104
Tales of Suspense 39-48, 50-54
Tales to Astonish 35-51, 54

Here’s some of the Rogue’s Gallery from this group:

The Frightful Frog-Man (from Strange Tales 104)



The Star Raiders of Planet Torgo (from Tales to Astonish 37)



Tremble before the Killer Treadmill of Rodrigo Cadiz (from Tales to Astonish 50)



As you can see, these villains were just as cover worthy as Roc, Glob, Sserpo, Torr and maybe even the mighty Moomba !

I did not have access to any sizable amount of Atlas/Marvel westerns, so feel free to add data if there is any.

The Pre-Hero Marvel sub-genre that really originated with Strange Worlds 1 (12/58) under the combined talent of Lee/Ditko/Kirby/Ayers and others actually blossomed for 6 years until the superheroes were mature and diverse enough to finally carry the entire issues in June 1964.

Thanks for reading and as usual, keep ‘em coming !

-bc

Love this info bc!!! Some of which I already knew but some I didn't and the exact issue info could be a handy reference tool to have! I've said many times that in particular, Tales to Astonish and Strange Tales (the less expensive of the big four) seem like tremendous bargains and they still have that pre-hero feel to them with their back up stories (at least for a while). Good stuff!!! 

[Frisco Larson]

The official first issue …. 

[Frisco Larson]

To the official last issue …. 

[Jasonmorris1000000]

Ant-man prototype 

[Jasonmorris1000000]

[Jasonmorris1000000]

I tried to get CGC to build a competitive set of Marvel Sci-Fi and Monster books from Strange Wolds #1 to TOS #38, but they refused me.  Judging from this thread, there apparently are a lot of collectors that go for these books and want to show them off.  Maybe someone with a better reputation should suggest it?

[bc]

13 minutes ago, Jasonmorris1000000 said:

I tried to get CGC to build a competitive set of Marvel Sci-Fi and Monster books from Strange Wolds #1 to TOS #38, but they refused me.  Judging from this thread, there apparently are a lot of collectors that go for these books and want to show them off.  Maybe someone with a better reputation should suggest it?

Disclaimer: I do use the Registry as a way to provide off-site data backup (serial#'s and pics) of my collection. I also have spreadsheets saved on every device and a few copies in the cloud, but since the Registry was free, took advantage of it as another backup point.

The Registry does have a competitive set for the individual titles:

Other than JIM not being broken into a PCH vs PHM subset, they are all there.

As far as a single competitive set for the entire genre, I have mixed feelings. If they could create a meta-set (like they do with other genre's- "Best Silver-Age" from the aggregated titles) from the above listed ones and not an entirely new "bucket", then I'd be all over that. If we have to remove books from the sets listed above and put them all in one master PHM "bucket", I'm not that enthusiastic.

Definitely worth a discussion!

-bc

[Frisco Larson]

27 minutes ago, Jasonmorris1000000 said:

I tried to get CGC to build a competitive set of Marvel Sci-Fi and Monster books from Strange Wolds #1 to TOS #38, but they refused me.  Judging from this thread, there apparently are a lot of collectors that go for these books and want to show them off.  Maybe someone with a better reputation should suggest it?

I'm sure your reputation is just fine. It's probably more of a numbers thing …. if ENOUGH of us suggest it, perhaps that'll move whomever puts these sort of things together to acknowledge the desire. 

[Frisco Larson]

4 minutes ago, bc said:

Disclaimer: I do use the Registry as a way to provide off-site data backup (serial#'s and pics) of my collection. I also have spreadsheets saved on every device and a few copies in the cloud, but since the Registry was free, took advantage of it as another backup point.

The Registry does have a competitive set for the individual titles:

Other than JIM not being broken into a PCH vs PHM subset, they are all there.

As far as a single competitive set for the entire genre, I have mixed feelings. If they could create a meta-set (like they do with other genre's- "Best Silver-Age" from the aggregated titles) from the above listed ones and not an entirely new "bucket", then I'd be all over that. If we have to remove books from the sets listed above and put them all in one master PHM "bucket", I'm not that enthusiastic.

Definitely worth a discussion!

-bc

Good point bc. Perhaps if they can at least separate the Journey run properly, it'd be enough of a benefit to suffice. The meta-set idea is feasible as they already have Tales to Astonish 27, 35-101 and then 59-101 and books can be in both sets, so they CAN make that happen if they choose to do so. 

[bc]

1 hour ago, Frisco Larson said:

Good point bc. Perhaps if they can at least separate the Journey run properly, it'd be enough of a benefit to suffice. The meta-set idea is feasible as they already have Tales to Astonish 27, 35-101 and then 59-101 and books can be in both sets, so they CAN make that happen if they choose to do so. 

If we wanted to create our own PHM JIM subset - where should we start? 

#49 - (11/58) First issue after the implosion. No Kirby or Ditko art. Likely a lot of leftover pre-Implosion content. Cover more indicative of post code than PHM.

#50 - (1/59) Has a 5 page Ditko story. No Kirby art. Possibly some content is leftover pre-Implosion. Cover more indicative of post code than PHM (but so were the early TOS & TTA issues that were out at the same time).

#51 - (3/59) Kirby & Ditko both contribute to interior art. Cover more indicative of post code than PHM (but so were the early TOS & TTA issues that were out at the same time).

#52 - (5/59) Kirby cover. Kirby & Ditko both contribute to interior art. Cover more indicative of post code than PHM (but so were the early TOS & TTA issues that were out at the same time).

#53 - (7/59) Kirby cover. Ditko contributes to interior art. Cover more indicative of post code than PHM (but so were the early TOS & TTA issues that were out at the same time).

#54 - (9/59) Kirby cover. Kirby & Ditko both contribute to interior art. Cover has classic PHM traits: Big monster name, fleeing humans, destruction of property, etc.

 

As a comparison, the Strange Tales PHM set starts at #67 (2/59) which only sports Kirby & Ditko interior art. ST #68 has a Kirby cover and both Kirby & Ditko interior art. It wasn't until ST #70 that we get the PHM cover style attributes as well. Applying the same criteria to JIM, #51 would be it's equivalent.

What do you guys think?

-bc

ps - big thanks to comics.org for the handy info 

 

[Jasonmorris1000000]

21 minutes ago, bc said:

If we wanted to create our own PHM JIM subset - where should we start? 

#49 - (11/58) First issue after the implosion. No Kirby or Ditko art. Likely a lot of leftover pre-Implosion content. Cover more indicative of post code than PHM.

#50 - (1/59) Has a 5 page Ditko story. No Kirby art. Possibly some content is leftover pre-Implosion. Cover more indicative of post code than PHM (but so were the early TOS & TTA issues that were out at the same time).

#51 - (3/59) Kirby & Ditko both contribute to interior art. Cover more indicative of post code than PHM (but so were the early TOS & TTA issues that were out at the same time).

#52 - (5/59) Kirby cover. Kirby & Ditko both contribute to interior art. Cover more indicative of post code than PHM (but so were the early TOS & TTA issues that were out at the same time).

#53 - (7/59) Kirby cover. Ditko contributes to interior art. Cover more indicative of post code than PHM (but so were the early TOS & TTA issues that were out at the same time).

#54 - (9/59) Kirby cover. Kirby & Ditko both contribute to interior art. Cover has classic PHM traits: Big monster name, fleeing humans, destruction of property, etc.

 

As a comparison, the Strange Tales PHM set starts at #67 (2/59) which only sports Kirby & Ditko interior art. ST #68 has a Kirby cover and both Kirby & Ditko interior art. It wasn't until ST #70 that we get the PHM cover style attributes as well. Applying the same criteria to JIM, #51 would be it's equivalent.

What do you guys think?

-bc

ps - big thanks to comics.org for the handy info 

 

I personally don’t include JIM #49 in with the monster stuff, but maybe I should?  I wonder about these two too.  Neither one has stories inside by Kirby and Ditko.

[KirbyJack]

I always started JIM PHM at 50, due to the inclusion of a “new” Ditko story.

Certainly open to new ideas, tho.

[Jasonmorris1000000]

Wouldn’t it also be cool to list the monster comics in chronological order, if possible.  Grand Comics Database doesn’t say what week the issue came out so I’m not sure how the ordering could be done reliably.

[bc]

1 minute ago, Jasonmorris1000000 said:

I personally don’t include JIM #49 in with the monster stuff, but maybe I should?  I wonder about these two too.  Neither one has stories inside by Kirby and Ditko.

Agree that World of Fantasy is another title that is tough to say when it "switched" to PHM. But I do like that Kirby cover on #15!

-bc