Sexual Harassment at Comic-Con?

[revat]

I don't know remember or care to look up what you're talking about, but if a person wants to take pictures of another person, and that person is willing to get their picture taken (even if the incentive is $$), I'm not sure I see anything wrong with that. But of course, related postings and commentary could make it VEEERRRY creepy after the fact.

 

BUT there is also a BIG difference (although the line can occasionally be thin) between harassment and creepiness.

 

Guy who stares a little too long at certain body parts of the shopgirl who rings up his purchase at the con? THen awkwardly asks her to coffee? Not great, but at worst, creepy, provided he goes on his merry way following rejection.

 

But if he keeps coming back to the booth and making references to his "War Machine or lightsaber", harassment.

[Timmay]

Im tired of being pestered by women at comic cons. It really does get ridiculous.

 

Being harrassed by Girl Scouts to buy cookies doesn't count.

[PennyCentury-migration]

I'm thrilled they're taking this seriously- everyone should feel safe to enjoy the con, no one should have to go through awful treatment and have their trip ruined because some insufficiently_thoughtful_person doesn't know how to treat human beings.

 

I'm lucky that I haven't had to deal with anything more than cheesy pickup lines at these events (which everyone deals with equally, so no complaints!) but I dress boring in jeans and t-shirts and I'm usually with friends at cons. I've seen women *and* men in costume get groped by weirdos without permission, and it's horrible to say the least. I always stop in case they need help or a witness, and I think that's a good general rule. I've been harassed in different situations and sometimes the shock/panic keeps you from reacting the way you want to ideally (IE telling them off then reporting them; sometimes getting away from them ASAP is all you can focus on.)

 

I don't blame men for looking normally when a woman is in a sexy costume, but leering, rude commenting and ESPECIALLY taking pics of their backsides as they walk away is behavior that shouldn't be tolerated. I see the latter way too often.

 

On the lighter side, at the last con I was at, a Playboy bunny who modeled for a comic book artist was there to sign photos. Whenever I passed by her booth, all the guys were too intimidated to look up from their shoes and say more than a mumbled "thank you".

[Maccai3]

some people are just *spoons* but i also struggle to understand why people dress like Powergirl then complain that people looked at her breasts

[Wally's Comics]

You can take a fanboyperv outta grandma's basement

but you can't take the grandma's basement outta the fanboyperv!

 

 

These shows just need better security and throw these bums the F OUT!

 

 

 

 

[Dr. Balls]

Came here for photographic examples, leaving disappointed.

 

We are talking about real people here.

 

Perhaps the topic is too political for this venue. How long will it take before we get some version of the blame the victim comment or the lighten up comment?

 

 

Oh, brother.

[Buzzetta]

Keep in mind that on the streets of Manhattan you are out in public. You want to take a picture of the guy running around in his underwear with a cape on in Times Square and NOT give him a dollar? They don't have to pose for you but you don't have to pay for any pic you do take of them.

 

Me? I will admit to taking pics of the insufficiently_thoughtful_persons I see on the subway. If you want to dance to make believe music or with a golden goose on a bicycle, my cell phone is coming out and taking a permanent memory.

 

You want to stnad on a street corner in tin foil and saran wrap on Bedford Avenue I am taking your picture.

 

You want to stage a fistfight for cash in Union Square? I am not paying for your fight but I will take a pic of it.

[Maccai3]

Came here for photographic examples, leaving disappointed.

 

We are talking about real people here.

 

Perhaps the topic is too political for this venue. How long will it take before we get some version of the blame the victim comment or the lighten up comment?

 

 

Oh, brother.

 

got milk?

[Wally's Comics]

Keep in mind that on the streets of Manhattan you are out in public. You want to take a picture of the guy running around in his underwear with a cape on in Times Square and NOT give him a dollar? They don't have to pose for you but you don't have to pay for any pic you do take of them.

 

Me? I will admit to taking pics of the insufficiently_thoughtful_persons I see on the subway. If you want to dance to make believe music or with a golden goose on a bicycle, my cell phone is coming out and taking a permanent memory.

 

You want to stnad on a street corner in tin foil and saran wrap on Bedford Avenue I am taking your picture.

 

You want to stage a fistfight for cash in Union Square? I am not paying for your fight but I will take a pic of it.

 

Hah! UR making me miss NYC...

 

 

 

[Mr.Illmannered]

I'm actually surprised it doesn't happen more. Glad to hear they are being proactive.

[Crimebuster]

I am 100% behind the cosplayers on this. No harassment of any kind is in any way warranted. Cons have an obligation to protect their attendees, particularly the cosplayers, from any kind of harassment. And we as a hobby need to be more open and inviting in general and need more women involved in the hobby. We should do everything we can to encourage them and discourage any inappropriate behavior.

 

Having said that, I did want to address this here:

 

A boardie on here was posting pic after pic after pic of the same girl.

Plus dozens of others.

He even boasted of having "a pocket full of $5 notes" to keep the girl to stay.

 

You all read it.

 

I found it totally distasteful - but said nothing. I am now quite embarrassed I didn't tbh.

 

Look back, you will see who I mean.

 

I have seen the gentleman concerned, and thought the comments, especially regarding the younger girls were borderline at best.

He is not a young man.

 

I will leave it there.

 

 

 

I read that thread as it was being posted and I thought it was fairly clear that the poster had an artistic interest in the cosplayers, both in terms of how they created their costumes and that he was taking their pictures so he could use them as models for his drawings. Maybe I was mistaken, but that's definitely the impression I got.

 

The thread as a whole did veer into creepiness a few times though with some of the other comments people were making.

[That Ron Dude]

I hope I get the "Power Girl" quote at the top here. I feel similarly. (EDIT: Didn't get it. It's a good post but if you want to read it you will have to look above.)

 

This is a very complex situation.

 

I have no tolerance for sexual harassment.

 

But I have little tolerance for a scantily clad woman at a comic convention whose purpose is to entice me to a purchase, to make herself the most powerful person in the room in a world where power is usually a reflection of intelligence and talent, or to be able to groan on later about all the sleazy horndogs.

 

Yes, I understand that there is a huge part of fandom that really enjoys costuming. Still, I would be more impressed with that outlook if there were more costumes representing female characters that didn't have skin tight costumes emphasizing their sexuality.

 

It is hard to find a place where there are more guys who have confusion about sexuality, guys who have maintained their chastity far longer than they wish to, guys who really enjoy all the quasi-sex they can find as a substitution for real sex, and generally speaking, guys who hang on to comics as part of prolonging their childhoods.

 

A scantily dressed woman there is about as cute as handing out free shots at an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting.

 

The World Science Fiction Convention used to have an endless parade of mostly naked women in the costume show. One year, and I was there, a guy came out on stage after about five mostly naked women. He was dressed, maybe, as Buck Rogers. I was there but it was a while ago and I remember the important part-- his words. "I thought this was a costume show. If I knew that this was going to happen I would have brought out my girlfriend with her t!ts painted green".

 

He got wild applause.

 

The World SF convention put in a new rule that there will be no nudity.

 

Though the situations are not completely parallel I think we can still learn something from them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Buzzetta]

Keep in mind that on the streets of Manhattan you are out in public. You want to take a picture of the guy running around in his underwear with a cape on in Times Square and NOT give him a dollar? They don't have to pose for you but you don't have to pay for any pic you do take of them.

 

Me? I will admit to taking pics of the insufficiently_thoughtful_persons I see on the subway. If you want to dance to make believe music or with a golden goose on a bicycle, my cell phone is coming out and taking a permanent memory.

 

You want to stnad on a street corner in tin foil and saran wrap on Bedford Avenue I am taking your picture.

 

You want to stage a fistfight for cash in Union Square? I am not paying for your fight but I will take a pic of it.

 

Hah! UR making me miss NYC...

 

 

 

 

 

Just for you... Three pics... I have MANY more...

• Two insufficiently_thoughtful_persons bringing their pitbulls through the subway during rush hour. Please, no one tell me how great pitbulls are if they are raised right and are appropriately cared for. No one should brings dogs of that size onto crowded subway cars during rush hour where the dog is surrounded by strangers in a strange setting while having their (the dogs) perceived personal space invaded due to the car being packed.
  
• Union Square fights
  
• Hipsters of Brooklyn... No, this was not halloween... This guy just goes around dressed like this. Sometimes he dances to congo drums in a woman's one piece bathing suit and I also have a pic of him sitting on a subway playing a ukelele without any strings...
  

Yeah... welcome to NY

 

 

 

 

[JAM_NYC]

Keep in mind that on the streets of Manhattan you are out in public. You want to take a picture of the guy running around in his underwear with a cape on in Times Square and NOT give him a dollar? They don't have to pose for you but you don't have to pay for any pic you do take of them.

 

Me? I will admit to taking pics of the insufficiently_thoughtful_persons I see on the subway. If you want to dance to make believe music or with a golden goose on a bicycle, my cell phone is coming out and taking a permanent memory.

 

You want to stnad on a street corner in tin foil and saran wrap on Bedford Avenue I am taking your picture.

 

You want to stage a fistfight for cash in Union Square? I am not paying for your fight but I will take a pic of it.

im happy someone else does this! I've had to buy more iCloud storage for my phone due to my refusal to erase years of subway pics and videos. And I'll echo your sentiment of anybody that wants to make a spectacle of themselves in public is open for criticism, leering, and on the sly photos. Unwanted physical contact is obviously a no-no.

[JAM_NYC]

 

 

 

 

My brother lives in Williamsburg, put this guy on a recumbent bike he becomes every guy that lives on his block.

[Dr. Balls]

This is a very complex situation.

 

I have no tolerance for sexual harassment.

 

But I have little tolerance for a scantily clad woman at a comic convention whose purpose is to entice me to a purchase, to make herself the most powerful person in the room in a world where power is usually a reflection of intelligence and talent, or to be able to groan on later about all the sleazy horndogs.

 

Yes, I understand that there is a huge part of fandom that really enjoys costuming. Still, I would be more impressed with that outlook if there were more costumes representing female characters that didn't have skin tight costumes emphasizing their sexuality.

 

It is hard to find a place where there are more guys who have confusion about sexuality, guys who have maintained their chastity far longer than they wish to, guys who really enjoy all the quasi-sex they can find as a substitution for real sex, and generally speaking, guys who hang on to comics as part of prolonging their childhoods.

 

A scantily dressed woman there is about as cute as handing out free shots at an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting.

 

Well said. Of course, that kind of even-handed mentality falls on the deaf ears of people who think regardless of how anyone acts, instigates or suggests, that no one should be allowed to react in any way, shape or form that would potentially offend anyone.

[Dr. Balls]

I am 100% behind the cosplayers on this. No harassment of any kind is in any way warranted. Cons have an obligation to protect their attendees, particularly the cosplayers, from any kind of harassment. And we as a hobby need to be more open and inviting in general and need more women involved in the hobby. We should do everything we can to encourage them and discourage any inappropriate behavior.

 

And how is that done, exactly? Should the convention hire 5,000 security guards to be posted every 10 feet making sure no one leers at girls in skimpy costumes?

 

I'm all for appropriate behavior, but thinking that a convention's responsibility extends to closely monitoring 70,000 people's behavior at any given moment is pretty unrealistic.

 

The general public as a whole are pretty much offensive, dim-witted, irresponsible and ignorant. Just because it's a comic convention does not mean it's an exception to that.

[Crimebuster]

I am 100% behind the cosplayers on this. No harassment of any kind is in any way warranted. Cons have an obligation to protect their attendees, particularly the cosplayers, from any kind of harassment. And we as a hobby need to be more open and inviting in general and need more women involved in the hobby. We should do everything we can to encourage them and discourage any inappropriate behavior.

 

And how is that done, exactly? Should the convention hire 5,000 security guards to be posted every 10 feet making sure no one leers at girls in skimpy costumes?

 

I'm all for appropriate behavior, but thinking that a convention's responsibility extends to closely monitoring 70,000 people's behavior at any given moment is pretty unrealistic.

 

The general public as a whole are pretty much offensive, dim-witted, irresponsible and ignorant. Just because it's a comic convention does not mean it's an exception to that.

 

I don't think I agree with you. Other events with this many people actually do post lots of guards to make sure nothing untoward happens. I have been to a lot of sporting events where there has been security posted all over the place to ensure nothing happens. And thanks to that presence, I have seen guards break up fights and prevent fights from beginning numerous times. I have seen them nip harassment in the bud.

 

I once went to an Eagles-Colts game at Veteran's Stadium in Philadelphia. I wore my Colts jersey to support my team. Even though the stadium had a very bad rep, I felt safe - and was safe - because there were guards posted to ensure my safety. One of them actually came over to me and spoke to me about my jersey - or my "costume," if you want to get into con terms - to make sure I wasn't having any trouble.

 

The same consideration can and should be done at cons. Why not?

[miraclemet]

I hope I get the "Power Girl" quote at the top here. I feel similarly. (EDIT: Didn't get it. It's a good post but if you want to read it you will have to look above.)

 

This is a very complex situation.

 

I have no tolerance for sexual harassment.

 

But I have little tolerance for a scantily clad woman at a comic convention whose purpose is to entice me to a purchase, to make herself the most powerful person in the room in a world where power is usually a reflection of intelligence and talent, or to be able to groan on later about all the sleazy horndogs.

 

Yes, I understand that there is a huge part of fandom that really enjoys costuming. Still, I would be more impressed with that outlook if there were more costumes representing female characters that didn't have skin tight costumes emphasizing their sexuality.

 

It is hard to find a place where there are more guys who have confusion about sexuality, guys who have maintained their chastity far longer than they wish to, guys who really enjoy all the quasi-sex they can find as a substitution for real sex, and generally speaking, guys who hang on to comics as part of prolonging their childhoods.

 

A scantily dressed woman there is about as cute as handing out free shots at an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting.

 

The World Science Fiction Convention used to have an endless parade of mostly naked women in the costume show. One year, and I was there, a guy came out on stage after about five mostly naked women. He was dressed, maybe, as Buck Rogers. I was there but it was a while ago and I remember the important part-- his words. "I thought this was a costume show. If I knew that this was going to happen I would have brought out my girlfriend with her t!ts painted green".

 

He got wild applause.

 

The World SF convention put in a new rule that there will be no nudity.

 

Though the situations are not completely parallel I think we can still learn something from them.

 

 

 

Just want to park this here for future response.

[Dr. Balls]

I am 100% behind the cosplayers on this. No harassment of any kind is in any way warranted. Cons have an obligation to protect their attendees, particularly the cosplayers, from any kind of harassment. And we as a hobby need to be more open and inviting in general and need more women involved in the hobby. We should do everything we can to encourage them and discourage any inappropriate behavior.

 

And how is that done, exactly? Should the convention hire 5,000 security guards to be posted every 10 feet making sure no one leers at girls in skimpy costumes?

 

I'm all for appropriate behavior, but thinking that a convention's responsibility extends to closely monitoring 70,000 people's behavior at any given moment is pretty unrealistic.

 

The general public as a whole are pretty much offensive, dim-witted, irresponsible and ignorant. Just because it's a comic convention does not mean it's an exception to that.

 

I don't think I agree with you. Other events with this many people actually do post lots of guards to make sure nothing untoward happens. I have been to a lot of sporting events where there has been security posted all over the place to ensure nothing happens. And thanks to that presence, I have seen guards break up fights and prevent fights from beginning numerous times. I have seen them nip harassment in the bud.

 

I once went to an Eagles-Colts game at Veteran's Stadium in Philadelphia. I wore my Colts jersey to support my team. Even though the stadium had a very bad rep, I felt safe - and was safe - because there were guards posted to ensure my safety. One of them actually came over to me and spoke to me about my jersey - or my "costume," if you want to get into con terms - to make sure I wasn't having any trouble.

 

The same consideration can and should be done at cons. Why not?

 

I see what you're saying, but it's a little different at conventions because the objects of people's attentions are walking around everywhere completely unrestricted and unescorted. Not to mention in your example, you were wearing a sports jersey - a very far cry from what cosplayers wear at conventions. Please let me know how it goes next time you wear your Colts speedos and nothing else to a football game. I'm *pretty* sure that despite the security guards posted at doorways, you're going to get some harrassment from the general public that I was talking about above.

 

I propose a middle-road idea: every cosplayer who goes to a convention hires a security guard (for a nominal fee provided by the organizer or facility) that will escort them through the convention. This will provide the cosplayer a safe way to garner attention, and discourage inapporpriate behavior.

 

Don't think they should have to pay? Fine. Up the cost of attending the convention to cover complimentary security guards. There is your solution.

 

I think it's absolutely ludicrious for a scantily-clad model to expect a 100% non-harrassment situation when walking through crowds filled with hundreds, if not thousands of people. That's just not the way humanity is wired.