my SDCC review

[jonjesper]

That's a shame JJ.

 

But what can you or I do?

 

Deal with the situation, talk about it, bring it to light and hope others can solve the mess.

 

For those thinking it doesn't affect them, let me take any SDCC facilitator for example. He has never had a problem with DC. He goes to get his wristband like he does every SDCC and is told 'sorry, no exhibitors can have wristbands', (partial story or full story ensues).

He has books for people that sent them specifically to be signed and are part of this facilitators 200 book minimum to have a CAW. Now he might have lost 20 books.

20 customer books that don't get done.

X amount of customers who are not happy.

20 less subs for CGC.

20 less facilitator fees that now impact the bottom line on expenses for this facilitator.

 

While there are private signings, not all creators will do them. So it is a loss that can't be recouped.

 

 

 

 

[A-DONIS]

What seems to be the consensus them?

[troydivision1]

Quick Question -

Knowing this will affect NYCC, do Scott Snyder & Greg Capullo offer private signings?

(planning my books now)

[jonjesper]

Nope, which were 2 of the major creators who Facilitators could not get to at the DC booth

[A-DONIS]

What about outside of their booths?

 

Was this an issue?

 

And for future reference.. Why not ask the creator to sign at the CGC booth? It's been done before and never had an issue.

[lscomics]

In the past week I have had 1 major collector tell me he is done. Selling all his SS books, as he believes CGC does not take this seriously. That is 1 person I sell books to that is now gone. 1 person who submits through facilitators that is now gone. And this person (if they choose to step forward) enjoys SS more then most. That's sad.

This is disheartening to say the least. In an earlier post in this thread Doug (MedicAR) also mentioned that he's taking a step back from SS, not necessarily quitting but at least taking a break from it.

 

After much self-deliberation I've come to that same decision, to a degree. Until something is done and the problems that exist are not only addressed but fixed, I won't be submitting any books for SS. Don't misunderstand, this decision isn't something that I think will make even the slightest ripple in the pool of problems that exist right now as even when I do sub books it's 20 or so on the extreme high side and that's only a couple of times a year. It's more a matter of, I've been getting books signed since I started collecting which was long before there was any grading or authentication of any kind available. For the amount of money spent on subbing books for SS I could buy a considerably higher number of books I want for my collection and just keep them raw. If I'm going to support a program then I would expect the company offering it should care at least enough about it to actually do something when a problem arises.

 

I'm not going to the extreme of liquidating the SS books I currently have but with the exception of a half dozen books I had subbed at Florida Super Con I'm done. At least for the time being. If things get straightened out I'll be more than happy to start subbing books again but if nothing gets resolved, well... that will be the end of it. At least for me.

 

PS: The way things have been on the boards lately I half expect, at the least, for the mods to scrub this post and possibly a week's "vacation". Again... we'll have to wait and see.

[Steve_Paulus]

In the past week I have had 1 major collector tell me he is done. Selling all his SS books, as he believes CGC does not take this seriously. That is 1 person I sell books to that is now gone. 1 person who submits through facilitators that is now gone. And this person (if they choose to step forward) enjoys SS more then most. That's sad.

This is disheartening to say the least. In an earlier post in this thread Doug (MedicAR) also mentioned that he's taking a step back from SS, not necessarily quitting but at least taking a break from it.

 

After much self-deliberation I've come to that same decision, to a degree. Until something is done and the problems that exist are not only addressed but fixed, I won't be submitting any books for SS. Don't misunderstand, this decision isn't something that I think will make even the slightest ripple in the pool of problems that exist right now as even when I do sub books it's 20 or so on the extreme high side and that's only a couple of times a year. It's more a matter of, I've been getting books signed since I started collecting which was long before there was any grading or authentication of any kind available. For the amount of money spent on subbing books for SS I could buy a considerably higher number of books I want for my collection and just keep them raw. If I'm going to support a program then I would expect the company offering it should care at least enough about it to actually do something when a problem arises.

 

I'm not going to the extreme of liquidating the SS books I currently have but with the exception of a half dozen books I had subbed at Florida Super Con I'm done. At least for the time being. If things get straightened out I'll be more than happy to start subbing books again but if nothing gets resolved, well... that will be the end of it. At least for me.

 

PS: The way things have been on the boards lately I half expect, at the least, for the mods to scrub this post and possibly a week's "vacation". Again... we'll have to wait and see.

 

I for one am sorry to hear this... It is a shame that one or two bad apples can ruin a really good thing!

 

Sadly you the only one I have heard who have decided to take a step back or just abandon the SS program. It is disheartening to say the least.

 

The only thing I can say is that I believe that it will get better. If this last issue at SDCC sparks a reform movement or the next issue is the catalyst, the problems will resolved.

 

Maybe I just had a double dose of optimization in my coffee this morning, but that's the way I see it...

 

[comicsnyc22]

Finally caught up to the thread. Eek. Bummer of a situation all around, but there seems to be some solves in here, but CGC may need to be the catalysts.

[freshcollect]

As someone who's just getting in the program, this is very disheartening. I share the concern that a lack of action from the top of the program shows a lack of respect of the issue. And when you're program is based on providing a "guarantee" that these things were signed by someone that's an issue. A program based on trust, that doesn't show respect for the creators, and doesn't follow up on issues with it's "employees/subcontractors" around respect and trust is certainly in a precarious situation.

 

As someone who spent heavily on sports memorabilia, I can assure you that any hint of a scandal adversely affected the realized sales value of completely unrelated items. The same can be said of issues with grading/authentication when cards that were knowingly laser cut didn't get caught in the process, it degrades the trust factor, erodes customer confidence and decreases value across the board.

 

I'm admittedly new to the boards, and somewhat surprised that on a corporately managed forum there isn't more presence by the company itself, but that said I know they do make appearances here, and at the least I'd have expected a comment in this thread given that this is where some of their higher value customers hang out. Maybe this is being dealt with directly with the facilitators (although that's not what we're hearing), and I'm not looking to have anyone publicly flogged - I'd be happy with a simple: "Management is aware of the issue, we're discussing with the impacted parties and we assure you we recognize the concerns this could generate across the program and will ensure it is resolved moving forward"

[A-DONIS]

Then it's up to us, facilitators, to ensure that an open relationship is established between CGC and the publishers. Look, CGC can't solve EVERY problem that arises with facilitators and CAWs. I believe that WE should be held to a higher standard and conduct ourselves accordingly. If you or I don't have the balls (hate to say it) to call that person out or pull them aside and give them your two cents, then you're about as guilty as he/she is of doing the same thing.

 

Typing out what can or should be done does nothing. Call that person out, call him on their phone and fill their voice mail inbox until they call you back or give a true apology.

 

If this facilitator chooses not to admit fault, then simply boycott them. Even if they're able to get that creator that we all love and would want a signature from, boycott them.

 

But if you're happy with their services and happy that they continue to ruin, or should we say, tarnish a fruitful relationship, then it is no ones fault but your own.

 

That's my two cents. It may not be frosty, or a sweet answer, but it's the truth.

[MedicAR]

As someone who's just getting in the program, this is very disheartening. I share the concern that a lack of action from the top of the program shows a lack of respect of the issue. And when you're program is based on providing a "guarantee" that these things were signed by someone that's an issue. A program based on trust, that doesn't show respect for the creators, and doesn't follow up on issues with it's "employees/subcontractors" around respect and trust is certainly in a precarious situation.

 

As someone who spent heavily on sports memorabilia, I can assure you that any hint of a scandal adversely affected the realized sales value of completely unrelated items. The same can be said of issues with grading/authentication when cards that were knowingly laser cut didn't get caught in the process, it degrades the trust factor, erodes customer confidence and decreases value across the board.

 

I'm admittedly new to the boards, and somewhat surprised that on a corporately managed forum there isn't more presence by the company itself, but that said I know they do make appearances here, and at the least I'd have expected a comment in this thread given that this is where some of their higher value customers hang out. Maybe this is being dealt with directly with the facilitators (although that's not what we're hearing), and I'm not looking to have anyone publicly flogged - I'd be happy with a simple: "Management is aware of the issue, we're discussing with the impacted parties and we assure you we recognize the concerns this could generate across the program and will ensure it is resolved moving forward"

 

The new guy gets it.

 

Coming from another hobby that has seen similar problems, he recognizes the potential for disaster. I keep thinking of Peach State Collectibles and their scandal with Neil Armstrong signatures. Their reputation was rock solid for a long time but then they started selling questionable signatures from Armstrong and then Michael Collins, too. To my knowledge, it is still unclear if Peach State had a hand in the forgeries or just unwittingly sold them. Suddenly, a Peach State COA was the kiss of death on the secondary market. I see that they are still in business, but I wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole and the few collectors I have remained in touch with feel the same way.

 

The problem is that once a reputation is called into question, especially in the autograph business, it borders on impossible to rebuild it. The key isn't to avoid wrongdoing, it is to avoid even the appearance of wrongdoing.

 

And yeah, I'm done (at least for now) with CGC SS in particular and CGC in general. I sincerely hope they work out the problems, real or perceived, being discussed here. I am not to the point yet that I would never have anything to do with them again, but I will certainly think long and hard about it.

[brendanb438]

We need someone like JJ in charge of the SS program to clean house.

 

If certain individuals are at the root of the problem then the only fix is to take away their ability to be a part of the program. If they are allowed to continue business as usual they will continue to burn bridges for our entire community with other creators/artists/comic companies.

[Rich_Henn]

Fortunately, there are some facilitators such as JJ and myself, who have fostered very good relationships with some of these creators.

 

I've been working with the Capullo's at several shows, as one example, to try and offset the hassle of long lines, and in turn, I give them compensation for their time.

Jamie and Greg are two of the nicest people you'd ever want to meet both on and off the floor.

When word came down about the DC roadblock, I approached Jamie right after one of Greg's DC signings, and both she and Greg came right over to my booth.

 

They took care of us, and Steve & I took care of them.

 

Every time I see Adam Hughes and he signs something for me, I give him something in return. And almost every time he reminds me it's not necessary, but I tell him, to me it is. They deserve something. And even if it's just the simple gesture, it's an understanding that they know you're not taking them for granted.

 

To respond to JJ's post about the collector who is retiring, I know who that is too and that makes me sad for him as well because this guy BLEEDS yellow. He LOVE(D) this program.

 

I have my own thoughts and ideas about what happened at SDCC and the problem(s) that are consistently at hand both for facilitators and collectors of the s/s program, but I think these are best kept to myself while we allow CGC to handle the problem(s) in both a timely and professional manner.

[MedicAR]

Then it's up to us, facilitators, to ensure that an open relationship is established between CGC and the publishers. Look, CGC can't solve EVERY problem that arises with facilitators and CAWs. I believe that WE should be held to a higher standard and conduct ourselves accordingly. If you or I don't have the balls (hate to say it) to call that person out or pull them aside and give them your two cents, then you're about as guilty as he/she is of doing the same thing.

 

Typing out what can or should be done does nothing. Call that person out, call him on their phone and fill their voice mail inbox until they call you back or give a true apology.

 

If this facilitator chooses not to admit fault, then simply boycott them. Even if they're able to get that creator that we all love and would want a signature from, boycott them.

 

But if you're happy with their services and happy that they continue to ruin, or should we say, tarnish a fruitful relationship, then it is no ones fault but your own.

 

That's my two cents. It may not be frosty, or a sweet answer, but it's the truth.

 

I almost agree with you. I just think you're missing the bigger picture. There is a thread in General right now where a relative newbie may have mistaken DWC for CGC at a show where he subbed some books. Having seen DWC's and CGC's booths, I can see how this could happen. He is now frustrated with CGC and "their" customer service when he has not actually dealt with them.

 

This is the type of problem I am concerned about. Having been a part of these boards for quite awhile, we all have a pretty good feel for who's who and we all grasp the difference between CGC and facilitators and how their relationship works. As a rule, if a person is not on these boards and doesn't check in regularly with the Signature Room, they won't really fully understand how this works. Without that knowledge, they will not see a difference between CGC, DWC, NYComics or GACollectibles*. They will simply see CGC and assume it is all the same.

 

In the end, only CGC can fix this. We can rant, rave, jump up and down, scream and fling our poo at anyone we want, but CGC has to fix it. If everyone here refused to use one facilitator, it wouldn't really matter. They can still set up a booth and, having seen it first hand, they will rake in a ton of business.

 

*I picked facilitators that are identified with letters. No association is assumed or implied.

[Triston Pence]

Fortunately, there are some facilitators such as JJ and myself, who have fostered very good relationships with some of these creators.

 

I've been working with the Capullo's at several shows, as one example, to try and offset the hassle of long lines, and in turn, I give them compensation for their time.

Jamie and Greg are two of the nicest people you'd ever want to meet both on and off the floor.

When word came down about the DC roadblock, I approached Jamie right after one of Greg's DC signings, and both she and Greg came right over to my booth.

 

They took care of us, and Steve & I took care of them.

 

Every time I see Adam Hughes and he signs something for me, I give him something in return. And almost every time he reminds me it's not necessary, but I tell him, to me it is. They deserve something. And even if it's just the simple gesture, it's an understanding that they know you're not taking them for granted.

 

To respond to JJ's post about the collector who is retiring, I know who that is too and that makes me sad for him as well because this guy BLEEDS yellow. He LOVE(D) this program.

 

I have my own thoughts and ideas about what happened at SDCC and the problem(s) that are consistently at hand both for facilitators and collectors of the s/s program, but I think these are best kept to myself while we allow CGC to handle the problem(s) in both a timely and professional manner.

 

Very well said Rich. I too was turned away from DC, and understand the folks at DC were very polite and professional. They just didn't want their lines to get bogged down and I understand that. My wife and I contacted the creators we needed and set up signings away from the DC booth and everything went well. The creators have no hard feelings with regards to the SS program. They just don't want situations where their lines have to be cut short and fans be turned away from their booth.

 

This might be a trend with all major creators in the future. As JJ, Rich, and several others have said just set up signings away from the booths and both retailers and fans/collectors will get their items signed. Consider how well the Robert Kirkman signing situation worked out with CGC at Comic-Con. Robert's lines at the con were much more managable and everyone's books for SS were done. There are issues that have to be worked out and believe me, CGC will get it worked out. They have a tremendous staff who totally understand the importance of public relations.

 

Signature Series is still the most respected and reliable signature authenticator in the hobby. There is no perfect science to acquiring autographs and for that reason CGC will have to address issues like this as long as there is a SS program. I have no doubt that everything will get worked out in the end. The folks at CGC will have an efficient means to getting books signed by high demand creators at the large conventions. I also believe that facilatators and CAW's will work together to build better relationships with creators and believe me...that's the key. To summarize, Signature Series hasn't been around very long and has grown enormously in popularity in just a few years time. There will be occasional bumps in the road, but it will all work out in the end.

[lscomics]

Sadly you the only one I have heard who have decided to take a step back or just abandon the SS program. It is disheartening to say the least.

I'm definitely taking a step back, not sure if I'll continue with it in the future or not.

 

I believe I'm the third one to at least step back if not walk away. The list as I know it is:

 

1) Doug (MedicAR)

And yeah, I'm done (at least for now) with CGC SS in particular and CGC in general.

 

2) The unnamed collector JJ mentioned.

In the past week I have had 1 major collector tell me he is done. Selling all his SS books, as he believes CGC does not take this seriously.

 

3) Myself

 

I believe that WE should be held to a higher standard and conduct ourselves accordingly.

Oh the irony... here's an example of how a facilitator should NOT behave towards someone. Especially over $15 worth of comic books.

link

 

If this facilitator chooses not to admit fault, then simply boycott them. Even if they're able to get that creator that we all love and would want a signature from, boycott them.

It was clearly stated that DWC isn't the only facilitator that's caused a problem with what occured.

Yes, DWC was the straw that broke the back, but

Yes, DWC was the straw that broke the back, but they did what many other facilitators have done in the past, distribute books to others in line because of a per book limit. Many Facilitators have done this (heck, back in the day CGC did this), so let’s hold off with the pitchforks.

 

Anyway... I'll still be on the boards as there are a good number of people here that I enjoy talking to. I will, however, leave it up to someone else to take over setting up the Signature Series Trade Weekends if it's going to continue and anyone's up for putting it together.

[A-DONIS]

Bring the up the past why don't you.

 

It's all about changing the way you handle yourself. I've apologized to you, but you can't seem to get past that.

[lscomics]

Bring the up the past why don't you.

 

It's all about changing the way you handle yourself. I've apologized to you, but you can't seem to get past that.

No Adonis, you never apologized to me. The last contact I had with you was a PM basically telling me to go myself.

 

As for bringing up the past? I seem to recall you being on the side of the lynch mob in every thread that turned into a bash DWC fest time and time again.

 

And for the record, I have no problem with DWC. Chandler and Sharon have always been great to work with in my experience and have always treated me well. It's not like I'm a guy spending a ton of money subbing books through them either. If other people have had a different experience it's not something I ever encountered. I don't agree with or condone what took place at SDCC nor am I going to make excuses for someone else's actions. It happened as have many other things past and present to attain the goal of getting books signed. It's not my problem to straighten out, that's up to CGC. They either will or they won't and based on which route they go will determine if I continue to participate in the SS program or, for that matter, use their services at all.

[A-DONIS]

[seanfingh]

Classic.